Over on Boing Boing, Mark Frauenfelder has posted the excerpt below from A Love That Multiplies: An Up-Close View of How They Make It Work by Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar — yes, those Duggars — explaining how women “defraud” men when they dress in a way that men find exciting (in their pants).
This, sadly, is not exactly an original or even unusual notion in reactionary religious circles.
Indeed, a couple of years back, I found a rather scary post on a radically pro-patriarchal site called the CoAlpha Brotherhood in which one young man calling himself Drealm lamented that, as a man living “in a university town that’s overrun with young girls” he was literally “forced to stare at hundreds if not thousands of women a day, all of whom bring sluttiness to all new pinnacle”
Like the Duggars, Drealm thought that “a woman dressing provocatively and leaving a man in an unfinished state of excitement … is an assault on men’s sexuality.”
When women dress like this, he argued, he and other men couldn’t help but want to rape them.
[T]he only thing I want to do to a slut is rape them. … dressing like sluts brings out murders, rapists and sadists in men. … A society based on sluts, might as well be a pro-rapist society.
Reading back over this now, it’s all a bit too reminiscent of the thinking of Elliot Rodger. Indeed, after Rodger went on his misogyny-driven murder spree, one CoAlpha Forum member wrote that Rodger “would have been a true hero” had he only killed more sorority women; the site now adorns its front page with an homage to Rodger.
But it isn’t just those on the margins of the manosphere who think this way. In The Myth of Male Power, the 1993 book that essentially provided the ideological blueprint for the Men’s Rights movement today, Warren Farrell famously wrote of the “miniskirt power” secretaries allegedly had over their male bosses.
Farrell is a couple of decades older now, and apparently it takes more than a miniskirt to render him powerless these days. And by “more than a miniskirt” I mean less. As in no clothing at all. When Farrell put out a new eBook edition of The Myth of Male Power last year, he had his publisher put a rear-view shot of a nude woman on the cover, “to illustrate,” as he explained in an appearance on Reddit,
that the heterosexual man’s attraction to the naked body of a beautiful woman takes the power out of our upper brain and transports it into our lower brain
This sort of logic, like that of the Duggars and of “Drealm” from the CoAlpha Brotherhood, also conveniently takes the blame for (heterosexual) male behavior and transports it into the bodies of women. With the Duggars, we’ve seen exactly where this sort of logic can lead.
Farrell, much like the Duggars and the excerable “Drealm,” also seems to think that women commit a kind of fraud against men when they “stir up sensual desires” that they don’t intend to fulfill. As Farrell wrote in The Myth of Male Power, when a man pays good money to take a woman out, and she doesn’t repay him, as it were, with sex, she is in his estimation committing a kind of “date fraud” or “date robbery.”
Or even a sort of date rape. Farrell wrote that
dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom – the social custom of him taking money out of his pocket, giving it to her, and calling it a date. … Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape.
Emphasis mine, because holy fuck.
This is what happens when your ideology makes women responsible for (heterosexual) men’s desires. Hell, it’s what happens when you make anyone responsible for the desires of someone else, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.
Your pants feelings are your responsibility. Not anyone else’s. Full stop.
As I have said, the reason we sort nudity into specific places is for hygienic purposes. Health and safety, in other words. However, showing female nipples should not in fact be illegal, because there is no health or safety reason to hide them.
I like walking and meditation. Eating pomegranates. Tennis. Swimming.
That law is easy to understand though (“You can’t expose your genitals”). It passes the ‘down by law’ test.
Under your system how would a woman know if her mode of apparel was lawful or not?
Mark also likes prioritizing his boner over the freedom of women.
And to expand on what isidore13 said, in some places it isn’t illegal to show female nipples. Like my city, for instance. *whispers* theslightdiscomfort…theslightdiscomfort
Honestly I wouldn’t mind if people went around bare ass nude in the right circumstances. Barring those, I’m all for just covering the pelvic region as being the limit of clothing requirements.
Also I love how Mark continues to conflate personal freedom with ‘intolerant liberalism’ or whatever he’s calling it.
…..also, has anyone noticed how he’s been online all day, virtually without stopping? I mean, granted, I’ve been keeping an eye on my phone to follow the drama so I’ve also been around a lot, but…..
OK… I personally think that a sexually aroused man walking around in public would be somewhat distasteful, but presumably you favor that as long as its hygienic? Maybe if he wears some see-through pants?
@Mark
You know how in meditation, you’re trying to quiet your ‘monkey mind’? Your monkey mind is throwing feces all over this thread, love.
Perhaps when you see someone or something that you don’t want to see or aren’t interested in, and you find the slight discomfort rising, you could… meditate. Let the slight discomfort come, let it pass. Get on with life. Ya know?
Um, sexually aroused people walk around in public all the time RIGHT NOW, Mark, I have no problem as long as his genitals are covered.
Mark
I’d be interested in you answer to my original question:
Under your system how would a woman know if her mode of apparel was lawful or not?
As long as his genitals are covered up it’s fine. No one cares what you think is distasteful, you are a moron.
Alan,
I don’t know, but I’m sure someone would be able to think of something.
Yes.
This has not been a good day for me.
I must stop now.
There you go. Good idea.
But you’re the one advocating such a law, so the onus is on you to explain how it would work in practice.
You must have had something in mind when you proposed it.
Let’s see if he sticks the landing this time.
@GhostBird I will post a guard raccoon to make sure.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61RdDbY8-mL._SY355_.jpg
Besides the hygiene issue, we have these laws because as a culture, we’ve sexualized nudity. If we stopped doing that, flashing wouldn’t be an issue. It wouldn’t be predatory because it wouldn’t be socialized. So why is nudity so sexualized? Because culture can be pretty damn arbitrary. There’s no good reason people should be embarrassed or shocked by genitals, butts or female breasts.
Well said, WWTH
@ Tracey
That is one cool raccoon.
Raccoon sideeye.
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/9d5ddacde357807229d5f46acc1ea5ac9b584b28/c=0-11-244-194&r=x404&c=534×401/local/-/media/2015/01/07/JacksonMS/JacksonMS/635562473314686395-raccoon.jpg
Not a clue! Here’s a dog who loves Rocket Raccoon.
So, if I’ve got this right…
Mark believes that, since there are some moral ways in which to limit clothing choices a little bit, therefore *any* form and degree of clothing limitation is therefore inherently not immoral, and basically just as acceptable as any other.
Also, if his desire to institute a more conservative dress code is deemed immoral for some specific reason, it would therefore be hypocritical to declare *any other* dress code, no matter what the structure or rationale, as moral.
Because the particular reasons for why one type of dress code is unacceptable, and specifics for why a conservative dress code would be less acceptable than a more liberal (free) one, are nuance. And as we know, Mark hates nuance.
Is there a name for this type of fallacy? Equating two things based on extremely superficial properties while refusing to comprehend the deeper properties that differentiate them? Because it’s pretty much one of my biggest pet peeves.
@kirby
False equivalence?
I think Mark meant to write “sentence” instead of “system.” So it translates to “I don’t know why you started that sentence with ‘No, Mark’ because I agree with it. And that’s the whole issue here, isn’t it? That you don’t accept any system that limits personal freedoms?”
Because he only sees “limit personal freedoms” in a contextless vacuum; when we say we don’t want a system that limits people for bad reasons, he reads that as us saying we don’t want a system that limits people at all.
Because Mark doesn’t like nuance. Or meaning. Or language. Or anything that can’t be boiled down into a simple, universally-applicable statement.