Over on Boing Boing, Mark Frauenfelder has posted the excerpt below from A Love That Multiplies: An Up-Close View of How They Make It Work by Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar — yes, those Duggars — explaining how women “defraud” men when they dress in a way that men find exciting (in their pants).
This, sadly, is not exactly an original or even unusual notion in reactionary religious circles.
Indeed, a couple of years back, I found a rather scary post on a radically pro-patriarchal site called the CoAlpha Brotherhood in which one young man calling himself Drealm lamented that, as a man living “in a university town that’s overrun with young girls” he was literally “forced to stare at hundreds if not thousands of women a day, all of whom bring sluttiness to all new pinnacle”
Like the Duggars, Drealm thought that “a woman dressing provocatively and leaving a man in an unfinished state of excitement … is an assault on men’s sexuality.”
When women dress like this, he argued, he and other men couldn’t help but want to rape them.
[T]he only thing I want to do to a slut is rape them. … dressing like sluts brings out murders, rapists and sadists in men. … A society based on sluts, might as well be a pro-rapist society.
Reading back over this now, it’s all a bit too reminiscent of the thinking of Elliot Rodger. Indeed, after Rodger went on his misogyny-driven murder spree, one CoAlpha Forum member wrote that Rodger “would have been a true hero” had he only killed more sorority women; the site now adorns its front page with an homage to Rodger.
But it isn’t just those on the margins of the manosphere who think this way. In The Myth of Male Power, the 1993 book that essentially provided the ideological blueprint for the Men’s Rights movement today, Warren Farrell famously wrote of the “miniskirt power” secretaries allegedly had over their male bosses.
Farrell is a couple of decades older now, and apparently it takes more than a miniskirt to render him powerless these days. And by “more than a miniskirt” I mean less. As in no clothing at all. When Farrell put out a new eBook edition of The Myth of Male Power last year, he had his publisher put a rear-view shot of a nude woman on the cover, “to illustrate,” as he explained in an appearance on Reddit,
that the heterosexual man’s attraction to the naked body of a beautiful woman takes the power out of our upper brain and transports it into our lower brain
This sort of logic, like that of the Duggars and of “Drealm” from the CoAlpha Brotherhood, also conveniently takes the blame for (heterosexual) male behavior and transports it into the bodies of women. With the Duggars, we’ve seen exactly where this sort of logic can lead.
Farrell, much like the Duggars and the excerable “Drealm,” also seems to think that women commit a kind of fraud against men when they “stir up sensual desires” that they don’t intend to fulfill. As Farrell wrote in The Myth of Male Power, when a man pays good money to take a woman out, and she doesn’t repay him, as it were, with sex, she is in his estimation committing a kind of “date fraud” or “date robbery.”
Or even a sort of date rape. Farrell wrote that
dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom – the social custom of him taking money out of his pocket, giving it to her, and calling it a date. … Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape.
Emphasis mine, because holy fuck.
This is what happens when your ideology makes women responsible for (heterosexual) men’s desires. Hell, it’s what happens when you make anyone responsible for the desires of someone else, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.
Your pants feelings are your responsibility. Not anyone else’s. Full stop.
weirwoodtreehugger –
isn’t that going to be a problem for absolutely any social system? I think its a little unfair to expect me to solve that one.
No Mark it isn’t because we are arguing that we don’t need to take into consideration random jackoffs like you.
Even though I, as an atheist don’t understand the hijab, the ban is stupid and bigoted. My city has a large Somali population, so I see a lot of women wearing them. Guess what? It doesn’t hurt me in the slightest, so it is none of my business and they don’t bother me. Because I’m a grown up and don’t expect everyone to cater to my taste.
Why is that so hard to understand?
Mark, how many times do you need to be told to fuck off before you fuck off? Just give me a number and I’ll put them all in one post to save everyone time. Will that work for you?
Mark, you are the one making this ludicrous claim that it would be better. It’s on you to demonstrate how by outlining the practicalities of your system.
Stop feeding mark.
@Mark:
How about you answer first. Where do you draw the line? You’ve gone on and on (and on and on and on*) about how you think people should take other’s feelings into account when they dress, and that a conservative dress code would be better.
What do you mean by this?
Where is your line for what wouldn’t be acceptable under you “conservative” dress code? What do you mean by conservative? What particular problems do you think would be solved by such a thing?
You repeatedly insist that the rules should change and could change and might have some abstract reason to change, but you never actually sit down and explain what that change should be.
* and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on*
Mark,
THAT’S THE WHOLE FUCKING POINT!!!
Normal is arbitrary and hard to pin down. That is why it is asinine for you to say that a dress code normal people approve of is a good idea.
@isidore
No I’m not.
Seconding Kirby. In fact, maybe a new troll challenge to actually answer Kirby’s questions before Mark can say anything else? Since his entire argument is predicated on what he thinks are the obvious answers to Kirby’s questions.
(OT: are we as the commentariat allowed to issue troll challenges or am I stepping out of bounds?)
You’re not what?
There’s no need to speculate about how Mark’s system would work, because it isn’t his system. There have been (and are) many times and places when women were/are required to cover up to spare men the discomfort of an unsatisfied boner.
These systems don’t actually stop men from having unsatisfied boners. All they accomplish is circumscribing women’s freedom. That’s fine with Mark because he only cares about the comfort and well-being of men. Even if women are made uncomfortable by having to wrap themselves in drapery in order to leave the house, and for no reason, that’s no problem for Mark because they aren’t men.
Don’t you even start with that gotcha nonsense, Mark. Don’t you even. We all know where the line is, and you do too, you just want an excuse to impose your will on others like the impotent would-be dictator you are.
Maybe we need some concrete examples of different types of attire so that we can get a consensus on what are acceptable garments. Or maybe I just want an excuse to post pics of animals all dolled up for Halloween. Whatever the case, I present this!
That’s a corgi in a banana suit, in case the pic doesn’t show up. Do banana costumes meet the required dress standards? Or are they too formal?
Isidore,
We can suggest troll challenges, but only David had the power to enforce them. I’m all for one though.
WWTH: as long as I’m not being presumptuous! lol
Are tusks acceptable, or do they draw too much attention to the face?
http://pettalknews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/dog-walrus.jpg
@Mark
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/0/02/AA5_Holdit.png/revision/latest?cb=20140217023920
Before you even try to list this as an example:
I live in France, dumbass, this isn’t close to correct.
First of all, it’s the headscarf, not a hat. And second off, it was banned in schools, not everywhere. Did you forget to mention that or did you feel your argument might be stronger if you left that little detail out? I wonder…
Furthermore, the reason it was banned in schools has NOTHING to do ‘conservative’ dresscodes and everything to do with religious expression vs maintaining a ‘neutral’ environment (look up Laïcité). As a matter of fact, France is actually extremely liberal when it comes to nudity and sexuality, so it’s hilarious that you tried to use it as an example.
should be lived*, and fuck, my image didn’t work 🙁
A troll challenge would be pretty effective on this one, since Marks seems completely incapable of answering certain questions. I’d just feel a little bad for David, because for the next month he’ll have to clean out about 10 comments a day from Mark repeating himself.
“I think people should be mindful of others when they dress.”
“No good, alright try this. I think people should… take into account the… opinions of other people when.. putting on clothes.”
“No? Umm… How about; people wearing clothes shoud think about… how other people would think about their clothes?”
“Ok, ok, fine, I get it. Ok, here it is; Mark’s Perfectly Reasonable Dress Code.
…
It should be conservative.”
Are feathers too loose and fluttery? Or do they provide much-needed extra coverage?
http://www.myaimistrue.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/photo-2-1-600×600.jpg
(This is also the best form of peacocking that I’ve ever seen).
lol omg kirbywarp
Darn, wrong pic. This one was supposed to be my peacock pup.
http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/rapidcityjournal.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/e6/5e68c6ae-4fdd-522b-8375-3cc8c2010339/4e87b7cbd868c.image.jpg
http://imgur.com/16wXQWR
http://imgur.com/4YkY21E
Piglets and ducklings are so much nicer to deal with then people like Mark. Enjoy! 🙂
BABY OKAPI!
http://www.zooborns.com/.a/6a010535647bf3970b01bb0835c61b970d-800wi