Over on Boing Boing, Mark Frauenfelder has posted the excerpt below from A Love That Multiplies: An Up-Close View of How They Make It Work by Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar — yes, those Duggars — explaining how women “defraud” men when they dress in a way that men find exciting (in their pants).
This, sadly, is not exactly an original or even unusual notion in reactionary religious circles.
Indeed, a couple of years back, I found a rather scary post on a radically pro-patriarchal site called the CoAlpha Brotherhood in which one young man calling himself Drealm lamented that, as a man living “in a university town that’s overrun with young girls” he was literally “forced to stare at hundreds if not thousands of women a day, all of whom bring sluttiness to all new pinnacle”
Like the Duggars, Drealm thought that “a woman dressing provocatively and leaving a man in an unfinished state of excitement … is an assault on men’s sexuality.”
When women dress like this, he argued, he and other men couldn’t help but want to rape them.
[T]he only thing I want to do to a slut is rape them. … dressing like sluts brings out murders, rapists and sadists in men. … A society based on sluts, might as well be a pro-rapist society.
Reading back over this now, it’s all a bit too reminiscent of the thinking of Elliot Rodger. Indeed, after Rodger went on his misogyny-driven murder spree, one CoAlpha Forum member wrote that Rodger “would have been a true hero” had he only killed more sorority women; the site now adorns its front page with an homage to Rodger.
But it isn’t just those on the margins of the manosphere who think this way. In The Myth of Male Power, the 1993 book that essentially provided the ideological blueprint for the Men’s Rights movement today, Warren Farrell famously wrote of the “miniskirt power” secretaries allegedly had over their male bosses.
Farrell is a couple of decades older now, and apparently it takes more than a miniskirt to render him powerless these days. And by “more than a miniskirt” I mean less. As in no clothing at all. When Farrell put out a new eBook edition of The Myth of Male Power last year, he had his publisher put a rear-view shot of a nude woman on the cover, “to illustrate,” as he explained in an appearance on Reddit,
that the heterosexual man’s attraction to the naked body of a beautiful woman takes the power out of our upper brain and transports it into our lower brain
This sort of logic, like that of the Duggars and of “Drealm” from the CoAlpha Brotherhood, also conveniently takes the blame for (heterosexual) male behavior and transports it into the bodies of women. With the Duggars, we’ve seen exactly where this sort of logic can lead.
Farrell, much like the Duggars and the excerable “Drealm,” also seems to think that women commit a kind of fraud against men when they “stir up sensual desires” that they don’t intend to fulfill. As Farrell wrote in The Myth of Male Power, when a man pays good money to take a woman out, and she doesn’t repay him, as it were, with sex, she is in his estimation committing a kind of “date fraud” or “date robbery.”
Or even a sort of date rape. Farrell wrote that
dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom – the social custom of him taking money out of his pocket, giving it to her, and calling it a date. … Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape.
Emphasis mine, because holy fuck.
This is what happens when your ideology makes women responsible for (heterosexual) men’s desires. Hell, it’s what happens when you make anyone responsible for the desires of someone else, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.
Your pants feelings are your responsibility. Not anyone else’s. Full stop.
@katz
SHASDJKASJKLDHAJKSDHJKLAHSDFLHASDKLFH.
Babbeh foxy just too cuuuuuuute.
@fromafar
“Whatever that means, indeed. It means “basically how prudish people are in their sexual attitudes and behavior” which is going to affect how people SELF REPORT SEX DRIVES.”
That doesn’t make any sense – if there was a correlation between gender equality and socio-sexual whatever, and social-sexual whatever effected sex drives then there *would* be a link between sex drives and gender equality/society.
But the difference in sex drive between men and women is independent of the type of society they come from, in the same way that height differences between men and women are independent of the type of society they come from (according to that article).
I linked that page because someone asked me to – they asked me to link it because in answer to someone elses question I said that I thought men probably had higher sex drives than women. Looks like I might have been right…
Look at these cute dragons. Way better than reading the word vomit of Ser Mark of Fail:
http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/129560/12955924_350.png
http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/130637/13063688_350.png
http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/132496/13249510_350.png
Just because you don’t understand it Mark, doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense. Fuck off.
Just out of a matter of interest, what do you think about that guy from Scotland who spent six years in prison for nudism?
This is probably the worst flounce I’ve ever seen. How about the rest of you? I’m sure you’ve seen worse ones than I have.
Oh man, those are totally cute dragons!
Mark, please answer my question. Whose uncomfortable feelings?
@isiodore
Other normal people who might be bothered by their clothing.
@katz – well, you know what they say – native wildlife are always cuter on the other side of the pond.
I’m from Tennessee originally, so I know the devil that raccoons can be. But these urban foxes are out.of.control. No fear. Humans regularly have to step out of their way and into the street when the foxes are on the sidewalk, ‘cos the darn things are bold as brass and won’t acknowledge human supremacy. Or cat supremacy either – though my cat in her younger years certainly tried to show them what for. And they can hop fences and stuff. One left a poo right on top of my garden table, which was disconcerting and I feel a deliberate insult. I want a local cadre of raccoons to do some fox take-down since we humans are clearly not up to it. Of course, probably what would happen is the raccoons and foxes would get in cahoots and spread the rubbish even wider in the streets on bin days.
I have more where that came from. 😀 Way better to look at than Mark’s dipshitty words of dipshitness.
http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/122753/12275217_350.png
http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/131722/13172115_350.png
http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/131751/13175071_350.png
And end with a bby 😀
http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/136009/13600839_350.png
So you are actually saying that you expect women (and women only) to dress according to any arbitrary, shifting, and vague standard set by total strangers they might encounter during the course of their day. Why do you think this is a reasonable demand?
Not allowing nudity is different from demanding the law be changed to enforce a stricter more ‘conservative’ dress code to please your boner Mark. Fuck off.
That guy from Scotland would probably be a much more interesting person to have this conversation with than you, Mark.
Mark your demands aren’t normal. Most people are fine with the current standards of dress and aren’t demanding women change to be more conservative.
snuffy
So where do you draw the line?
Exactly how many outfits do you expect women to carry around with them? 10? 20? 30? What is the minimum number of times you think women will have to change their outfit in order to meet the unstated standards of *literally any stranger they come across*?
@isiodore
I think that there are actually quite a wide range of standards that could be considered reasonable. I think that the present system is reasonable, but that a more conservative one would also be reasonable.
I mean, in France they banned the Muslim hat, didn’t they? There is actually quite a wide range of measures that a society can take.
The current laws are in place because they weigh what the public is fine with and personal freedom. Most people are fine with where that line is (hence the only people protesting it are you and the rapist OP). Your demands for women to be more conservative are not normal and unreasonable, stop trying to control women.
How is normal defined? Who decides how normal is defined? Legislative bodies? A special panel? A referendum? If it’s a panel, who appoints the panel? Will it be diverse? Or all straight white Christian men?
Mark, you clearly don’t think the present system is reasonable because you are *defending rapists who say it is not*. That is called cognitive dissonance.
No Mark a more conservative dress code isn’t reasonable because you’re trying to take away women’s freedom to please your boner.
You know the veil ban was hotly debated and is seriously considered by some to be a Human Rights infringement, right?
Also, quit trying to argue case-by case bullshit examples that don’t support your original point, Play-Doh boy.
But snuffy, saying that the current system is ok because it has already weighed up what most people in society consider to be acceptable is a very different position from the one that you took earlier, that everyone is free to wear whatever they like without reference to the considerations of others.
Is it reasonable for Mark to still be making the exact same argument 400 comments later that he was making yesterday, and expect people to start magically agreeing with him now when they didn’t yesterday?