Over on Boing Boing, Mark Frauenfelder has posted the excerpt below from A Love That Multiplies: An Up-Close View of How They Make It Work by Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar — yes, those Duggars — explaining how women “defraud” men when they dress in a way that men find exciting (in their pants).
This, sadly, is not exactly an original or even unusual notion in reactionary religious circles.
Indeed, a couple of years back, I found a rather scary post on a radically pro-patriarchal site called the CoAlpha Brotherhood in which one young man calling himself Drealm lamented that, as a man living “in a university town that’s overrun with young girls” he was literally “forced to stare at hundreds if not thousands of women a day, all of whom bring sluttiness to all new pinnacle”
Like the Duggars, Drealm thought that “a woman dressing provocatively and leaving a man in an unfinished state of excitement … is an assault on men’s sexuality.”
When women dress like this, he argued, he and other men couldn’t help but want to rape them.
[T]he only thing I want to do to a slut is rape them. … dressing like sluts brings out murders, rapists and sadists in men. … A society based on sluts, might as well be a pro-rapist society.
Reading back over this now, it’s all a bit too reminiscent of the thinking of Elliot Rodger. Indeed, after Rodger went on his misogyny-driven murder spree, one CoAlpha Forum member wrote that Rodger “would have been a true hero” had he only killed more sorority women; the site now adorns its front page with an homage to Rodger.
But it isn’t just those on the margins of the manosphere who think this way. In The Myth of Male Power, the 1993 book that essentially provided the ideological blueprint for the Men’s Rights movement today, Warren Farrell famously wrote of the “miniskirt power” secretaries allegedly had over their male bosses.
Farrell is a couple of decades older now, and apparently it takes more than a miniskirt to render him powerless these days. And by “more than a miniskirt” I mean less. As in no clothing at all. When Farrell put out a new eBook edition of The Myth of Male Power last year, he had his publisher put a rear-view shot of a nude woman on the cover, “to illustrate,” as he explained in an appearance on Reddit,
that the heterosexual man’s attraction to the naked body of a beautiful woman takes the power out of our upper brain and transports it into our lower brain
This sort of logic, like that of the Duggars and of “Drealm” from the CoAlpha Brotherhood, also conveniently takes the blame for (heterosexual) male behavior and transports it into the bodies of women. With the Duggars, we’ve seen exactly where this sort of logic can lead.
Farrell, much like the Duggars and the excerable “Drealm,” also seems to think that women commit a kind of fraud against men when they “stir up sensual desires” that they don’t intend to fulfill. As Farrell wrote in The Myth of Male Power, when a man pays good money to take a woman out, and she doesn’t repay him, as it were, with sex, she is in his estimation committing a kind of “date fraud” or “date robbery.”
Or even a sort of date rape. Farrell wrote that
dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom – the social custom of him taking money out of his pocket, giving it to her, and calling it a date. … Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape.
Emphasis mine, because holy fuck.
This is what happens when your ideology makes women responsible for (heterosexual) men’s desires. Hell, it’s what happens when you make anyone responsible for the desires of someone else, regardless of gender or sexual orientation.
Your pants feelings are your responsibility. Not anyone else’s. Full stop.
Panda pool
“Needs more butts.”
http://lovejusta.ru/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/38.png
http://griffin.mixrmedia.com/user_photos/blog/2013/05/09/4c05f00a431cbe46aa2577f6e0c49207-500.jpg
I have nothing to say on this one:
http://www.teamjimmyjoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Womans-Butt-Hot-Air-Balloon.jpg
Butts? Have a naked Eric Northman gif!
Posting a link instead of embedding in case anyone is at work or is uncomfortable with the nudity.
Different kind of cute butts
http://funny-pics-fun.com/wp-content/uploads/Funny-Animals-And-Their-Butts-320×240.jpg
*looks at the first two pictures* Awwww yuuuss that’s what I–
*sees the last picture*
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/nope.gif
@WWTH
That’s an alright butt. And those fluffy butts are fluffy and butts and that dog has heart shape butt and d’aw.
Some more butts:
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/tghtn.gif
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/squidward_twerkin.gif
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/giphy.gif
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/pxmEA.gif
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/villar-butt-phillips-butt.gif
http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2014-01/enhanced/webdr02/10/11/anigif_enhanced-buzz-7706-1389370909-31.gif
To Mark-My cat has the self control and courtesy to go outside, to DIG a hole, does her business in said hole and goes through the trouble of FILLING the hole again to bury it. If animals have such self control, humans have NO excuse not too!
Fruitloopsie-They are in the same poses, adorable! And the last one? LLLLOOOOOOOLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eyes and a smile do it for me. Eyes, ones with depth, that show a life that has been lived, good and bad. That have seen the best and the worst and have survived.
And a smile, a nice smile natural and not forced, just nice and genuine. Somes times a wry smile at the absurdity of life, sometimes a warm smile, sometimes a “I am so happy’ smile.
And a good kisser too……… the sort that curl your toes…..lol….
@fromafar2013
“All these rich fucks with their $10 and $20 dollar bills, just taking them OUT OF THEIR WALLETS AND WAVING THEM AROUND. It’s enough to make someone snatch it right out of their hands! And that’s what they get! If they don’t want to get punched in the face and their money taken, they should keep it in their wallets where it belongs and stop tempting poor guys like me!”
I agree, that is closer to the original statement, and, in the society I *think* I live in, something that only someone who was seriously disturbed would say. Again – the fact that they are talking about how they feel rather than actually acting on those feelings suggests to me that they must still, at least on some level, be aware that they have control over these urges. Perhaps this is splitting hairs, but to me being made to *”want to do something” isn’t the same as being made to do it. I entirely agree that we have control over our own actions, and I suppose you are right to make that point, but I don’t think that stating that we have control and responsibility for ourselves alone is sufficient (or really even relevant), and it doesn’t really counter what is being said here.
Here is the thing – the statement above is clearly disturbed, but the basic idea (that jealousy of other people’s money is a problem) is actually a pretty respectable position. So, a good reaction to someone feeling this way might not be to say “shut your stupid face, we all have lots of money, if you don’t like it blind yourself”. In the same way I think the OP quotation is obviously disturbed, but the basic idea that people might be disturbed by the appearance of others doesn’t strike me as particularly controversial. Neither do I think that we have a right to dress or act in any way we like without consideration of others (and I don’t think, if they’re honest, many other people think this either.)
BTW, the “now I’m a ten dollar bill” comments – the point of the analogy was to make clear the basic logic of the statement by changing the object (grammatically speaking) of the sentence to something less emotionally fraught – not to suggest that women are pieces of paper. Thanks.
Fuck off Mark. There’s no way you can make your victim blaming bullshit seem reasonable, so just admit you’re a rape apologist already. You are seriously saying that because I’m female and large breasts, I don’t have the right to dress in a comfortable way when it’s hot and humid. You are suggesting that if I choose not to suffocate myself in a goose down coat to hide my anatomy, I am asking for somebody who feels uncomfortable with boobs to rape and kill me. Well, fuck you. Seriously, you are a terrible person. Just take a look at your posts. What kind of person prioritizes the comfort of a violent misogynist over the right of a woman to just dress the way she feels comfortable? A piece of shit. That’s who.
I’ve already explained why your lack of impulse control theory doesn’t make any sense, so you can piss off with that now and take a dive into a Lego pit. Thanks.
“how ‘women need to dress modest!’, if you think that what women are wearing is never grounds for sexual assault?”
I’m going to go for the reverse self-Godwin here: I think that the Nazis were awful, but that doesn’t mean I’m in favor of uncontrolled immigration. I also don’t think that assuming uncontrolled immigration as a basic tenet of civilized thought is the best basis for arguing against Nazis.
OK, I apologize. I’ll leave you guys to it.
@Mark
The problem isn’t the fact they may act on it, it’s the fact that they think that way. People shouldn’t think that way about people. It’s horrible. It’s dehumanizing. Maybe if you pull your head out of your ass you’d see that.
This is rubbish Mark. I think (again) of my Grandfather, finest man I ever knew. And he would have despised men who could not control themselves sexually, in fact he wouldn’t have dignified them with the term ‘man’. There was zero tolerance for a man who got out of control.
Funny fact, Glasgow in the 40s and 50s, rough, rough place. My mother felt totally safe in waking home from a show or a dance by herself at night. Back then even the meanest thug wouldn’t have ever throught about attacking a woman. So what is wrong with so many so called men now?
Yes sure it might have sexist and prejudiced about womens rights back then, but at the same time men were supposed to men and control themselves, not be little boys.
DON’T LEAVE US, MARK! PPPLLLEEEAAASSEEE!!!!!!!!!! Actually, please do!
Ha @Mark pulled the old “I’m not a rape apologist, but the rape apologists have a valid point”. Yes @Mark, you are a rape apologist. It is disgusting that you think women should dress to be “considerate” of these men instead of condemning the men for having the urge to rape women and telling women to dress how they want.
Lisa-“Funny fact, Glasgow in the 40s and 50s, rough, rough place. My mother felt totally safe in waking home from a show or a dance by herself at night. Back then even the meanest thug wouldn’t have ever throught about attacking a woman. So what is wrong with so many so called men now?
Yes sure it might have sexist and prejudiced about womens rights back then, but at the same time men were supposed to men and control themselves, not be little boys.”
This is why most evopsych is garbage (especially when it is spouted by self proclaimed ‘experts’ who say that men rape women because of ‘natural urges’). Culture and socialization play a HUGE role in human behaviour and ‘natural urges’ is no excuse for rape.
Do you even read, bro? The argument that being made to want something and being made to do it are identical is the one being made by the people quoted in the OP.
Yes, it does, because the people being quoted in the OP find wanting and doing indistinguishable. That’s their argument: that women can’t be allowed to make men feel sexual feelings, because the men will inevitably act on them, and it’s not the men’s fault because: inevitable.
And that’s the same argument you’re making when you say that some modesty in women’s dress is actually a great idea for the reasons of the above.
Stay gone this time. Don’t come to any other threads. Your lack of reading comprehension is making your English teacher cry. You drag down every thread you’re in with your inability to read and reason properly.
So women shouldnt wear a bikini then? Or a sexy dress at a party? Obviously men will look at sexy women……and what now? There is nothing wrong with wearing shorts in summer or being sexy, it can look really tasteful and elegant.. Even if someone dresses too slutty, why do you even care? Shouldnt you be praying in the church? I dislike religous people. Its totally fine for men to walk without a shirt in the hot summer, working out……but a woman isnt allowed to wear yoga pants while she is working out Lmao.
As far as I know women in barbados dont get raped more often even if they show much (its hot. The people there got used to it ans respect women…..
I’ve been trying to figure out WTF he meant by this since I went to bed yesterday and it just hit me – gay rights. He’s talking about gay rights. He’s a rape apologist and a homophobe.
I know that I’m beating a horse that’s a bloody pulp at this point, but FFS, even C.S. Lewis got that different cultures have different standards of dress (or standards for “modesty”). See: His comparisons of “topless islanders” vs Victorian ladies.
The boundaries of what’s erotic are defined by a society’s taboos. Since taboos shift (even from person to person in a multicultural society), it’s nigh impossible to go about without potentially *someone’s* buttons.
(Not that someone having their buttons pushed = an excuse for rape, but that it’s an argument starting out without a bottom.)
Jesus, if just looking at a woman owning her body and making that sexy dress work is making a guy all hot and bothered, maybe he should just go into a shop on the way back home and buy a watermelon.
Mark thinks my body is an object with no owner.
My body is me, Mark. A tenner on the ground is anyone’s for the taking. I’m not. Please go find a nice asteroid and live there. Your insistence that it is a woman’s job to make sure you don’t rape her is exactly the kind of thing a rapist says to absolve himself of guilt.
How many women have left themselves just lying around for you to rape, Mark? How often is it not your fault when you “naturally” rape a woman or girl?
Brain bleach:
My friend once told her son to behave. He answered, “I am have!”
Priceless.