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Sorry, MRAs, You’re Kleenex: Why Men’s Rights Activists have lost control of their brand

Cat enjoying genuine Kleenex brand facial tissues.
Cat enjoying genuine Kleenex brand facial tissues.

While Men’s Rights Activists are quick to label virtually any woman that they disagree with a feminist, they react with outrage when anyone who is not a self-admitted MRA is described as one.

The folks at A Voice for Men are still fuming about what they consider a “trust-shattering” media scandal: the fact that a bunch of news outlets wrote about a supposed Men’s Rights boycott of Mad Max: Fury Road, when in fact the virulently antifeminist Youtube blabber calling for the boycott wasn’t technically a Men’s Rights activist at all.

Meanwhile, there’s a dude cluttering up my Twitter mentions with demands I take some sort of action against a tiny handful of commenters on this blog who have referred to the woman-hating mass killer Elliot Rodger as an MRA, even though, as far as we know, he wasn’t one.

To which I can only say: Sorry, guys. You’re Kleenex. And you’d better get used to it.

I don’t mean to imply that MRAs are thin sheets of paper best suited to being used as disposable snot-collectors. What I mean is that MRAs, like the makers of Kleenex, have lost control of their brand name.

Just as the word “Kleenex,” a brand name designating the product of one manufacturer, has become, in popular usage, a generic term for disposable snot-rags, so “MRA” has, in popular usage, become a catchall term used to designate any and all varieties of woman-hating nitwits who think “misandry” is a bigger problem than misogyny. 

So why have Manospherians, Pickup Artists, Incels, MGTOWs, GamerGaters, “slut haters,” Dark Enlightenment “thinkers,” and assorted other types of woman-hating nitwits all found themselves labelled MRAs, much to the chagrin of some self-declared MRAs?

Well, dudes, it’s actually pretty simple: because no one but you — and close followers of the New Misogyny, like the readers of this blog — can tell the difference between any of these groups of people. Because 90% of the backwards beliefs you espouse are exactly the same. 

Take the idea of female “hypergamy” — that is, the notion that women are perpetually obsessed with finding a “better” guy, and will happily desert or cheat on “beta” partners whenever they get a whiff of a nearby “alpha.” This particular redefinition of a term that used to simply mean “marrying up” originated with White Nationalist F. Roger Devlin; now it’s a central belief of Red Pillers everywhere, from the reactionary plate-spinning PUAs of the Red Pill subreddit (where Devlin’s, er, seminal work on the subject is listed in the sidebar) to the “Men’s Human Rights Activists” of A Voice for Men (where no less than 35 articles have mentioned the subject, including 7 in their headlines, and where one writer declared Devlin’s writing “supremely indispensable.”)

MRAs aren’t PUAs aren’t White Nationalists, but there are a lot of people whose identity straddles two or more of these labels, and they all love talking about hypergamy.

As for Elliot Rodger, he wasn’t an MRA or a PUA or a White Nationalist, but he hung out on a website, PUAhate, whose participants were immersed in the same misogynistic ideology that drives so many MRAs; indeed, one of the site’s mods was a regular contributor to AVFM. If you read through book-length manifesto left behind, as I have, you’ll find a lot of anti-woman rhetoric that is virtually identical to the hateful nonsense you can find posted all over the broader “manosphere.”. He also was a believer in female “hypergamy,” offering his own chilling take on one “meme” depicting the alleged unfairness of women’s sexual tastes that you can find all over the manosphere.

This isn’t the same sort of mislabeling that happens when, say, someone calls Margaret Thatcher a feminist, or when MGTOWs describe contemporary marriage as a feminist plot to enslave men, or when some particularly confused commenter in the Men’s Rights subreddit, say, declares far-right Norwegian MRA Elvind Berge to be some sort of feminist because he has suggested that teen boys raped by female teachers are “lucky.” (Never mind that this is not exactly a feminist belief in the first place.)

No, it’s much closer to identifying a Puffs facial tissue as a Kleenex.

Or, to fall back on the classic Monty Python bit, mixing up the Judean People’s Front with the People’s Front of Judea.

The outrage over the Men’s-Rights-boycott-of-Mad Max: Fury-Road-That-Wasn’t has gotten nearly as silly as that Monty Python bit. Over on AVFM, the site’s excitable managing editor, Dean Esmay, has been posting furious post after furious post attacking the “bigoted hatemonger[s]” and “hate-filled bigots” who in his mind are promoting “fabricated bullshit” claiming that Men’s Rights activists were boycotting the film.

At one point, he even suggested that these stories might be the result of “an actual coordinated plan by corrupt journalists who want to inject slander of human rights activists into supposedly straight news.”

In case you’re wondering, when Esmay talks about “human rights activists” he’s referring to MRAs. No, really.

Esmay is right about two things: Aaron Clarey, who called for the boycott, isn’t an MRA, nor is Roosh V, on whose site Clarey’s post was posted.

But it’s not hard to see how Clarey might have been mistaken for an MRA, given that in his post he sounds exactly like one. Indeed, he sounds enough like an MRA that AVFM has posted a number of articles and videos by Clarey on its site, the most recent of which, posted last month, was an excerpt of the white writer’s rather presumptuous self-published book “The Black Man’s Guide Out of Poverty.”

The whole fake controversy reached new heights of silliness today, when AVFM posted a piece denouncing a Forbes writer for talking about the supposed “Men’s Rights” boycott of Mad Max: Fury Road alongside a piece … decrying a supposed “feminist takeover of Hollywood.” No, really.

How Dave Thier rationalized lying to Forbes readers about a nonexistent boycott  Why are reporters like Dave Thier of Forbes standing by their fake reporting of a nonexistent boycott of Max Max Fury Road?  Female Friends Watching A Scary Movie Together Why a feminist takeover of Hollywood is a problem and why it’s happening  The feminist takeover of Hollywood will not satisfy their hunger for power. Rachael Lefler attacks the subversion of art for feminist panderers.

I’m going to post five quotes below. One or more is/are from Aaron Clarey’s non-MRA call for a boycott; the other or others are from Rachael Lefler’s AVFM attack on Hollywood feminism. Can you guess which are which?

  1. “[T]his maddening obsession with a distorted concept of egalitarianism and fairness is never going to end … and Hollywood will keep trying to make films that meet their demands which are never able to be met, because the feminists will still find shit to complain about.”
  2. “[F]eminism has infiltrated and co-opted Hollywood, ruining nearly every potentially-good action flick with a forced female character or an unnecessary romance sub-plot to eek out that extra 3 million in female attendees.”
  3. “[Feminists are] totally fine with a movie that perpetuates negative stereotypes about men, since we all know men are just dumb oppressive shitlords who can’t keep their rape-sticks in their pants for five minutes.”
  4. “This is the vehicle by which they are guaranteed to force a lecture on feminism down your throat. This is the Trojan Horse feminists and Hollywood leftists will use to (vainly) insist on the trope women are equal to men in all things, including physique, strength, and logic.”
  5. “Feminists will never be satisfied by any work of fiction, no matter how in line it is with feminist principles. They can always demand more, and they always will. Their whole idea of “activism” is to cry about how they are being oppressed by the latest blockbuster and to angrily denounce the next one on Twitter.”

So which of the quote(s) above is/are from the NON-MRA article by NON-MRA Aaron Clarey, posted on the NON-MRA “Return of Kings” website, and which is/are from the post by MRA (or at least MRA-sympathizer) Rachael Lefler on AVFM, the most influential site of the Men’s Rights movement?

.

1, 3, and 5 are from Lefler (Team MRA); 2 and 4 are from Clarey (Team Don’t Even Dare Call Him an MRA You Hatemongering Bigots). Don’t beat yourself up if you got some wrong: I had to doublecheck the origin of a couple of them, even though I’d cut and pasted them into this post only moments earlier.

So yeah, MRAs, you’re Kleenex.

Now, I’m a stickler for details, so I will personally continue to draw distinctions between MRAs and the various other sects of New Misogynists out there. But not everyone else will. Some because they don’t know all the details, others because they don’t care to distinguish between 31 flavors of terrible.

EDIT: Rewrote the conclusion.

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Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

@WWTH

MRA jokes can never be ninja’d. All jokes are appreciated.

Oh Hi There
Oh Hi There
9 years ago

@Pandapool, you’re amazing. you really made my day.

I don’t know if this has been said, but this kind of infighting is typical of hate groups–in fact, I’d say that this is how you know MRAs are hate groups. If it were really about advancing or maintaining the position of men in society, MRAs would have no problem working to a common cause with each other. But they can’t, because it’s not about that–it’s about hate, and hate, like love, doesn’t discriminate.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

@Oh Hi There

Well, that definitely gives credence to my theory that the GOP is just a hate group with power.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago
EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

What’s the difference between an MRA and a dumpster?

A dumpster doesn’t operate on the assumption that you’ve never used one before.

What’s the difference between an MRA and a dumpster?

A dumpster is harder to acquire if you’re underage.

marinerachel
marinerachel
9 years ago

What a great kitten.

katz
9 years ago

What’s the difference between an MRA and a dumpster?

A dumpster isn’t always full of garbage.

What’s the difference between an MRA and a dumpster?

Someone is willing to take what a dumpster dumps out.

Olive O'Sudden
Olive O'Sudden
9 years ago

Tissues aren’t paper; they’re a fibre product, which is why they can’t be recycled with paper and cardboard, but they can often be included with organics recycling or compost. 🙂

Yes, that is a great kitten. The fan featured in that picture is also fantastic: quiet, powerful, small, with soft blades, and an easy-to-reach-and-operate power switch. Perfect for any office.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

What’s the difference between MRAs and Dumpsters?

You aren’t so leery about the stains on a Dumpster.

What’s the difference between MRAs and Dumpsters?

You expect to find bugs in a Dumpster.

What’s the difference between MRAs and Dumpsters?

Conversation with a Dumpster is much more pleasant.

What’s the difference between MRAs and Dumpsters?

You can hang around a Dumpster while drunk and can expect it not to do anything when you pass out.

What’s the difference between MRAs and Dumpsters?

Dumpsters won’t follow you around, saying you have nice thighs for a fat bitch.

What’s the difference between MRAs and Dumpsters?

You often find Dumpsters outside.

What’s the difference between MRAs and Dumpsters?

Dumpsters will give you money if they have any on themselves and won’t expect sex in return.

What’s the difference between MRAs and Dumpsters?

Dumpsters likely give people more orgasms.

What’s the difference between MRAs and Dumpsters?

Dumpsters help keep your home clean.

katz
9 years ago

What’s the difference between an MRA and a dumpster?

There are people who enjoy sex with dumpsters.

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

All this talk about brands becoming colloquial terms for things only makes me think of Google becoming a verb.

Speaking of:

Feminists are like Google: everyone knows about us, we’re generally well-accepted, and we’re cock-a-block full of good (and sometimes bad) information, will sometimes suggest things based off of popular queries, and will try to talk you out of committing suicide.

MRAs are like Bing: Nobody really likes them unless they’re a part of it, they’re mostly full of bad information, does a horrible job of pleasing its user, will tell you to kill yourself, and will still strut about trying to convince you they’re superior.

Here’s the source for the suicide thing:

http://i.imgur.com/eK8zT.png

misseb47
misseb47
9 years ago

LOL to all the dumpster jokes! XD

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

FUUUUUUUUUU

I made a really awkward typo. I meant to say “Chock-o-block”, not “cock-o-block”.

Though, I am tempted to use that as a phrase now.

Olive O'Sudden
Olive O'Sudden
9 years ago

@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs

Hoover is another good one. Both MRAs and vacuum cleaners suck.

Hoover is a great example of how brand names used as a generic term for a specific product are very region-specific. Hoover is not typically used as a generic term for vacuums in the U.S. or Canada, nor is Klaxon widely used to denote an alarm or siren sound. Conversely, Jello, Q-tip, and dumpster are not generic terms for jelly, cotton buds, or skips in the U.K.

misseb47
misseb47
9 years ago

Paradoxical Intention-OMG! O.O I wouldn’t believe it if you didn’t provide a screenshot of it! And all that just from typing ‘how to com’?! Why is it the second instant search suggestion when there are many other possibilities, like the other results-how to communicate, how to compress files, or even how to compete in a pie eating contest. Urrrgh! I can’t believe the second search result-Amazon ‘How to commit suicide’ books? Seriously? Shame on you, Bing! Shame on you!

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/Shame-on-you-GIFS.gif?gs=a

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
9 years ago

I agree with HoosierX that New Misogynist doesn’t seem to quite hit it because a lot of it seems really old, but yet it’s ‘new enough’ in a sense, too. Just like Roosh’s neomasculinity (the he totes made up all by himself) doesn’t feel new at all, but is barely a retread of the toxic masculinity that’s made men and women suffer for so long.

The newness feels like it’s in the rapid transfer of really crappy ideas via the Internet (not a feature exclusive to New Misogyny) and the pseudo-scientific justification of male supremacism. But the pseudo-scientific-ness isn’t particularly new either – certainly it’s been used in all kinds of justifications to deny women legal and civil rights from owning property to the vote. Women with their smaller and more delicate brains just weren’t up to the task of having 1/(huge number) influence on choosing an elected representative and goodness knows what would happen if they all decided to vote in the same way (which we, by and large, haven’t).

The New misogynists certainly do hate women and vary only in how much they want to fuck them and where they are in their lives. PUA – mainly young, single and hating women for not having sex with them or for having sex with them. MRAs may or may not have have had a PUA phase, but they found someone at weak moment in their lives to marry them or in the case of my husband found the difficulties of family life so overwhelming that he searched for a movement that could justify his withdrawal. MGTOW seem like grumpy old men who were never able to socialise properly or guys whose kids are now old enough that they don’t have to be worried about being chased for child support anymore.

But they’re all male supremacists – and unabashedly so. Some of them aren’t white supremacists (some aren’t white), but many of them are. And they also seem to think that there’s a zero sum game of women getting paid more means men getting paid less, or women having more rights means men having fewer.

If male supremacist doesn’t quite seem to fit either, it’s because while they seem to believe that all men are superior to all women – some men are so much more superior than others that they seem to hate them, too.

And if I’m being honest, feminism (many isms) suffers from some of the same problems of differentiation. I have a reasonable, but evolving view of what feminism means to me – but I’m by no means an feminist academic. I know there are some manifestations of feminism I find really uncomfortable even while I might agree with their proponents on many or most things. But to an MRA-type (I’m lumping) it’s all the same feminism (they’re lumping). So they can see the random abhorrent musings of femitheist and say “See feminism!!!” while I say (and many others say) – nah, that’s not feminism at all.

So some MRA-types, like my husband, certainly don’t agree with the more outlandish elements of the new misogyny and he doesn’t like PUA but certainly seems to believe it works – but he’s still a male supremacist and his views are still dangerous. In the olden days, his views would have been mainly dangerous to me as he doesn’t get out much – but now because of the interwebs he can spew his ‘tempered’ and ‘scientific’ views of male supremacy to a wider audience. Maybe that’s what makes this new misogyny.

__
Good overview of the pseudo-science of gender and the pseudo-fication of some real science http://students.brown.edu/College_Hill_Independent/?p=7825

Sorceralism
Sorceralism
9 years ago

I tried to look up less favoring reviews of that black man’s guide, but there doesn’t seem to be any.

Who wants to review an excerpt!? 😀

Tessa
Tessa
9 years ago

Considering MRAs don’t actually do any activisting, what do they think distinguishes them from the other groups?

As for trademark erosion, I think Band-Aid is the best example.

sevenofmine
9 years ago

since we all know men are just dumb oppressive shitlords who can’t keep their rape-sticks in their pants for five minutes.”

*woman gets drunk*
*man rapes her*
MRA: She should have thought of that before she got drunk.
Feminists: Men are capable of exercising self control and not raping people just because they’re drunk.
MRA: FEMINISTS SAY ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS!!!

skybison
skybison
9 years ago

If it quacks like a misogynistic duck…

I’m also a stickler for detail, differences that outwardly seem small can make a big difference in practice and using a term too broadly can cause it to lose all meaning. But I really don’t understand what the difference is between Clarey and a MRA? Any MRA trolls reading this, what does he believe that you don’t agree with? The best I can figure is that MRAs put slightly more token effort in not looking like sociopaths, or at least pretend they do.

“Kleenexes can come in all different colors, not just white, unlike MRAs.”

I dunno, there was a black guy at the store I work at who said he was “half MRA” and a giant gamergater. Once we had an arguement when he complained about how unfair it was that men are expected to fight in war but not women. When I asked about feminists who want women to have equal oppertunity in the military he immediately started ranting about how women aren’t strong enough to be soldiers and shouldn’t be allowed in combat. This was followed by a lengthy explanation about how I’m an idiot for thinking these stances are contradictory.

Quatzork-43
Quatzork-43
9 years ago

You should write third-world, primitivist beliefs.

“Hypergamy”, srs what a bull. I nean, how can people be that insulated from IRL?

Aaron Clarey, have you seen his videos? I think his analyss of the economy is sound but even when he is not delirious, he has that whinning voice.

Quatzork-43
Quatzork-43
9 years ago

Good point.

“Now, I’m a stickler for details, so I will personally continue to draw distinctions between MRAs and the various other sects of New Misogynists out there.”

Yes, accuracy rocks! -D

mark graham
mark graham
9 years ago

this all just goes to show how utterly pathetic feminism has become today- these MRAs do all the same bullshit feminists do, and feminists are too stupid to realise that. both groups are insane and idiotic, and divorced from reality. when one compares simply being female as life disadvantage, to actual disadvantage, it becomes incredibly clear that being female is not a genuine disadvantage at all. modern feminism is so awful that women have started an anti-feminist movement. you would think that feminists would take a look at themselves when so many wmen are disgusted by what modern feminism has become, but of course feminists wont do that. introspection is something feminists are utterly incapable of.

AltoFronto
AltoFronto
9 years ago

Why is MRA like a Kleenex?

Their “Man-size” business model relies on a plentiful supply of Male Tears.

sevenofmine
9 years ago

mark graham sez:

when one compares simply being female as life disadvantage, to actual disadvantage, it becomes incredibly clear that being female is not a genuine disadvantage at all.

Well sure, if you arbitrarily exclude a kind of disadvantage from the definition of “disadvantage” , you can reach the conclusion that said kind of disadvantage isn’t really a disadvantage at all. But that would be fucking stupid.