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Sorry, MRAs, You’re Kleenex: Why Men’s Rights Activists have lost control of their brand

Cat enjoying genuine Kleenex brand facial tissues.
Cat enjoying genuine Kleenex brand facial tissues.

While Men’s Rights Activists are quick to label virtually any woman that they disagree with a feminist, they react with outrage when anyone who is not a self-admitted MRA is described as one.

The folks at A Voice for Men are still fuming about what they consider a “trust-shattering” media scandal: the fact that a bunch of news outlets wrote about a supposed Men’s Rights boycott of Mad Max: Fury Road, when in fact the virulently antifeminist Youtube blabber calling for the boycott wasn’t technically a Men’s Rights activist at all.

Meanwhile, there’s a dude cluttering up my Twitter mentions with demands I take some sort of action against a tiny handful of commenters on this blog who have referred to the woman-hating mass killer Elliot Rodger as an MRA, even though, as far as we know, he wasn’t one.

To which I can only say: Sorry, guys. You’re Kleenex. And you’d better get used to it.

I don’t mean to imply that MRAs are thin sheets of paper best suited to being used as disposable snot-collectors. What I mean is that MRAs, like the makers of Kleenex, have lost control of their brand name.

Just as the word “Kleenex,” a brand name designating the product of one manufacturer, has become, in popular usage, a generic term for disposable snot-rags, so “MRA” has, in popular usage, become a catchall term used to designate any and all varieties of woman-hating nitwits who think “misandry” is a bigger problem than misogyny. 

So why have Manospherians, Pickup Artists, Incels, MGTOWs, GamerGaters, “slut haters,” Dark Enlightenment “thinkers,” and assorted other types of woman-hating nitwits all found themselves labelled MRAs, much to the chagrin of some self-declared MRAs?

Well, dudes, it’s actually pretty simple: because no one but you — and close followers of the New Misogyny, like the readers of this blog — can tell the difference between any of these groups of people. Because 90% of the backwards beliefs you espouse are exactly the same. 

Take the idea of female “hypergamy” — that is, the notion that women are perpetually obsessed with finding a “better” guy, and will happily desert or cheat on “beta” partners whenever they get a whiff of a nearby “alpha.” This particular redefinition of a term that used to simply mean “marrying up” originated with White Nationalist F. Roger Devlin; now it’s a central belief of Red Pillers everywhere, from the reactionary plate-spinning PUAs of the Red Pill subreddit (where Devlin’s, er, seminal work on the subject is listed in the sidebar) to the “Men’s Human Rights Activists” of A Voice for Men (where no less than 35 articles have mentioned the subject, including 7 in their headlines, and where one writer declared Devlin’s writing “supremely indispensable.”)

MRAs aren’t PUAs aren’t White Nationalists, but there are a lot of people whose identity straddles two or more of these labels, and they all love talking about hypergamy.

As for Elliot Rodger, he wasn’t an MRA or a PUA or a White Nationalist, but he hung out on a website, PUAhate, whose participants were immersed in the same misogynistic ideology that drives so many MRAs; indeed, one of the site’s mods was a regular contributor to AVFM. If you read through book-length manifesto left behind, as I have, you’ll find a lot of anti-woman rhetoric that is virtually identical to the hateful nonsense you can find posted all over the broader “manosphere.”. He also was a believer in female “hypergamy,” offering his own chilling take on one “meme” depicting the alleged unfairness of women’s sexual tastes that you can find all over the manosphere.

This isn’t the same sort of mislabeling that happens when, say, someone calls Margaret Thatcher a feminist, or when MGTOWs describe contemporary marriage as a feminist plot to enslave men, or when some particularly confused commenter in the Men’s Rights subreddit, say, declares far-right Norwegian MRA Elvind Berge to be some sort of feminist because he has suggested that teen boys raped by female teachers are “lucky.” (Never mind that this is not exactly a feminist belief in the first place.)

No, it’s much closer to identifying a Puffs facial tissue as a Kleenex.

Or, to fall back on the classic Monty Python bit, mixing up the Judean People’s Front with the People’s Front of Judea.

The outrage over the Men’s-Rights-boycott-of-Mad Max: Fury-Road-That-Wasn’t has gotten nearly as silly as that Monty Python bit. Over on AVFM, the site’s excitable managing editor, Dean Esmay, has been posting furious post after furious post attacking the “bigoted hatemonger[s]” and “hate-filled bigots” who in his mind are promoting “fabricated bullshit” claiming that Men’s Rights activists were boycotting the film.

At one point, he even suggested that these stories might be the result of “an actual coordinated plan by corrupt journalists who want to inject slander of human rights activists into supposedly straight news.”

In case you’re wondering, when Esmay talks about “human rights activists” he’s referring to MRAs. No, really.

Esmay is right about two things: Aaron Clarey, who called for the boycott, isn’t an MRA, nor is Roosh V, on whose site Clarey’s post was posted.

But it’s not hard to see how Clarey might have been mistaken for an MRA, given that in his post he sounds exactly like one. Indeed, he sounds enough like an MRA that AVFM has posted a number of articles and videos by Clarey on its site, the most recent of which, posted last month, was an excerpt of the white writer’s rather presumptuous self-published book “The Black Man’s Guide Out of Poverty.”

The whole fake controversy reached new heights of silliness today, when AVFM posted a piece denouncing a Forbes writer for talking about the supposed “Men’s Rights” boycott of Mad Max: Fury Road alongside a piece … decrying a supposed “feminist takeover of Hollywood.” No, really.

How Dave Thier rationalized lying to Forbes readers about a nonexistent boycott  Why are reporters like Dave Thier of Forbes standing by their fake reporting of a nonexistent boycott of Max Max Fury Road?  Female Friends Watching A Scary Movie Together Why a feminist takeover of Hollywood is a problem and why it’s happening  The feminist takeover of Hollywood will not satisfy their hunger for power. Rachael Lefler attacks the subversion of art for feminist panderers.

I’m going to post five quotes below. One or more is/are from Aaron Clarey’s non-MRA call for a boycott; the other or others are from Rachael Lefler’s AVFM attack on Hollywood feminism. Can you guess which are which?

  1. “[T]his maddening obsession with a distorted concept of egalitarianism and fairness is never going to end … and Hollywood will keep trying to make films that meet their demands which are never able to be met, because the feminists will still find shit to complain about.”
  2. “[F]eminism has infiltrated and co-opted Hollywood, ruining nearly every potentially-good action flick with a forced female character or an unnecessary romance sub-plot to eek out that extra 3 million in female attendees.”
  3. “[Feminists are] totally fine with a movie that perpetuates negative stereotypes about men, since we all know men are just dumb oppressive shitlords who can’t keep their rape-sticks in their pants for five minutes.”
  4. “This is the vehicle by which they are guaranteed to force a lecture on feminism down your throat. This is the Trojan Horse feminists and Hollywood leftists will use to (vainly) insist on the trope women are equal to men in all things, including physique, strength, and logic.”
  5. “Feminists will never be satisfied by any work of fiction, no matter how in line it is with feminist principles. They can always demand more, and they always will. Their whole idea of “activism” is to cry about how they are being oppressed by the latest blockbuster and to angrily denounce the next one on Twitter.”

So which of the quote(s) above is/are from the NON-MRA article by NON-MRA Aaron Clarey, posted on the NON-MRA “Return of Kings” website, and which is/are from the post by MRA (or at least MRA-sympathizer) Rachael Lefler on AVFM, the most influential site of the Men’s Rights movement?

.

1, 3, and 5 are from Lefler (Team MRA); 2 and 4 are from Clarey (Team Don’t Even Dare Call Him an MRA You Hatemongering Bigots). Don’t beat yourself up if you got some wrong: I had to doublecheck the origin of a couple of them, even though I’d cut and pasted them into this post only moments earlier.

So yeah, MRAs, you’re Kleenex.

Now, I’m a stickler for details, so I will personally continue to draw distinctions between MRAs and the various other sects of New Misogynists out there. But not everyone else will. Some because they don’t know all the details, others because they don’t care to distinguish between 31 flavors of terrible.

EDIT: Rewrote the conclusion.

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Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
9 years ago

Miss Manners objects to Kleenex, favoring handkerchiefs instead. There’s a metaphor there.

GiJoel
GiJoel
9 years ago

Splitters!!!

Faint Praise
Faint Praise
9 years ago

The Kleenax comparison is my new go-to for this MRA defense now. Great illustration.

Just wanted to add: there are popular comments and commenters on AVfM who, on the very “Clarey isn’t an MRA” objection pieces, have written comments explaining how very right Clarey is and how awful Mad Max is. So in addition to indistinguishable conspiracies about feminism in Hollywood, they more specifically share indistinguishable conspiracies about feminism in Mad Max.

EG ctrl+f RevPointdexter to find a wall of text about the “feminist BS propaganda” of the film:
https://archive.is/0cJA7

Or this five page forum thread claiming it’s a covert feminist hit job:
https://archive.is/WNMXM

Or the fake movie rating calling it feminist BS on the AVfM facebook page, previously covered on WHTM.

They really are Kleenex. For all their claims that they’re actually a softer brand, no one else can differentiate these.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

I kinda want to leave a comment teasing that one guy that’s been bothering you on Twitter, David. So much. Just to make them twist their panties in a bunch.

C.S.Strowbridge
C.S.Strowbridge
9 years ago

“As for Elliot Rodger, he wasn’t an MRA or a PUA or a White Nationalist, but he hung out on a website, PUAhate, whose participants were immersed in the same misogynistic ideology that drives so many MRAs; indeed, one of the site’s mods was a regular contributor to AVFM.”

Didn’t the founder of PUAhate leave the site to join AVfM? If PUAhate isn’t an MRA site, then it is a training ground for MRAs.

opium4themasses
opium4themasses
9 years ago

Heh. I am vindicated by the use of a link to a video I didn’t put on YouTube by someone who wasn’t the original creator of the bit!

Really though, given all the cross post a and guest writing, how can they even attempt to make this argument? Oh, in bad faith? Sure okay.

anemonerosie
9 years ago

So, the take-away message is that there are MRA and MRB(etas)?

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

I’m more worried that I got them all right. Without reading either post. What does that say about me?

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

@WWTH

You’re really good at guessing.

Jason Neuman
9 years ago

“[F]eminism has infiltrated and co-opted Hollywood, ruining nearly every potentially-good action flick with a forced female character or an unnecessary romance sub-plot to eek out that extra 3 million in female attendees.”

HOW DARE A BUSINESS TRY TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!!

misseb47
misseb47
9 years ago

That’s the thing about the thing about MRA’s, PUAs and MGTOWs and the rest of the ‘Red Pillers’, all of these groups spout the same misogynitic crap that they are practicually indistinguishable. It is no wonder people get confused. You are right, David, they ARE Kleenex!

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

@Jason Neuman

Don’t you know? businesses should only cater to MEN audienced because MEN are the ones that make money because MEN are better and MEN MEN MEN MEN MEN.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
9 years ago

Well, it’s fitting, given that they treat women like Kleenex (and generally end up having to resort to the real thing).

Maybe they should do a better job of articulating their goals and stop converging on the exact same trollish behaviors and arguments, if they want the public to be able to parse the distinctions. As far as I can tell, they all boil down to “Women are bad and can be blamed for everything.”

Furretable Rick (@RicksWriting)

“[F]eminism has infiltrated and co-opted Hollywood, ruining nearly every potentially-good action flick with a forced female character or an unnecessary romance sub-plot to eek out that extra 3 million in female attendees.”

HOW DARE A BUSINESS TRY TO MAKE MORE MONEY!!!!

Not only that but that has kinda been the case since, basically, the invention of cinema. The recent feminism wave might only be a realization that “getting women into the theater” isn’t JUST about wedging in a romance subplot.

chaltab
chaltab
9 years ago

I’m more worried that I got them all right. Without reading either post. What does that say about me?

Maybe the specific references to ‘action film’ and ‘vehicle’ in Clarey’s quotes clued you in?

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
9 years ago

@Jackie

No, no, it’s not men that businesses should cater toward, but straight white men. And not straight white men, either, but aggrieved straight white men who think women are at fault for everything (along with also probably black people and Jews).

The way to rake in the cash is to narrowly tailor one’s offerings to appeal to that specific demographic.

Moocow
9 years ago

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that the MRAs were totes cool with the idea of a boycott until they realized that the entire internet was making fun of them.

reymohammed
9 years ago

Also Scotch tape and Jello.

alaisvex
alaisvex
9 years ago

Makes me wonder if they’ve actually seen the movie. The inclusion of female characters makes sense in the context of the plot, and the six main women, as well as a few female side characters, fit right into the story. Their inclusion in the story isn’t forced. The story was written with them in mind as characters and important actors in the plot. Furthermore, there are no romances in Fury Road, forced or otherwise.

alaisvex
alaisvex
9 years ago

As a side note, it’s action movies aimed at men that force female characters into the film, usually as one-dimensional love interests and damsels who have a minimum impact on the plot. Action movies aimed at men and women and everyone in between don’t tend to force the inclusion of female characters because those movies actually write the plot so that the female characters have reasons to be in it. They aren’t reduced to objects to affirm the male lead’s virility.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
9 years ago

I wrote a really spammy-looking comment. I think it’s in moderation. Wasn’t that funny anyway.

Auntie Alias
Auntie Alias
9 years ago

Brilliant analogy!

YoullNeverGuess
YoullNeverGuess
9 years ago

It’s very simple.

“I hate women and I express it by having sex with a bunch of them” — PUA
“I hate women because I am not having sex with a bunch of them” — MRA
“I hate women too much to even try having sex with them” — MGTOW

I never noticed what a smorgasbord of acronyms it is. Manospherians must eat a lot of alphabet soup.

tealily
tealily
9 years ago

It must be hard right now to find something to be offended over for those guys; this is a pretty hypocritical argument. They certainly have no problem defining feminists with one broad stroke.

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