Men’s Rights Redditors agree: Trans, intersex and genderqueer folks are silly and annoying and hinder true equality

Sorry for not making myself totally clear, and maybe being an imperfect instructor. Like I say, i as a cis person am not in to best position to be an information source on trans issues.

Ok, so you don’t have to be totally “into” your cis gender identity, but you have to at least be ok with your body, and pronouns, and not experience body dysmorphia. Like, I don’t experience what it that makes people “know” that they are trans, but I have to guess that on an instinctive level people must also “know” that they are cis? Maybe without ever really putting any thought into it, it’s just a thing you are?

@Dvarghundpossen – You are totally right, there. That’s what I should have been saying.
Obviously cis-privilege protects people from transphobic violence and a lot of other unpleasant shit, because people like to socially reinforce what is considered “normal” by patriarchal standards – no, I don’t really get “rewarded” for being a cis woman so much as I don’t get nearly as much shit heaped on me. It’s more of a negative reinforcement.
Like Patriarchy tells us “I could make life very unpleasant for you if you don’t fit yourself into my boxes”.

Ok, so throwing in gendered stuff like wearing dresses, etc is confusing, because obviously it doesn’t make me any less of a cis woman if I wear a tux and do “masculine” stuff like putting up shelves, or whatever arbitrary stuff is considered appropriate for manly men.
But performing the gender that one feels is kind of important to how other people sees one, which is what I was trying to get at. Like, we all decide when to play up our “maculine” aspects (being “one of the guys” at work) or be more feminine (maybe when dressing for a date) – there is a lot of context-driven gender performance involved in simply walking down the street, even for cis-folk.

Also – trans people are not just people who were assigned one gender at birth and identify as the opposite – there are many ways to express gender and many gender identites.

A trans person may identify as a woman, but still present in a very masculine way, or identify as no gender at all, but tend towards appearing feminine, as a conscious choice. And that may vary depending on mood, who’s in the room, or what is expected for the context.
Dressing and acting in accordance with one’s gender identity is important, but it wouldn’t make someone not-trans if they didn’t/ couldn’t do this (for reasons of safety).

You don’t have to be “cartoonishly” conforming to any gender to be that gender (or all women would look like Barbie), but a lot of people seem to think it’s their business to police how we look, or how we act, whatever our identities – my dad tells me I should wear more dresses and keep my hair long because it’s “just nicer”. Young boys get dolls snatched away from them and sent to play sports… and sometimes these genders are policed with violence.
And as brooked says, even the LGBTQ communities police gender/sexuality with comments like that. Trans folk are constantly having to justify their existence to people who want to ask intrusive questions about surgery, or bathrooms.

@ Nicky – No, “cis” was coined because there was a need for a word to mean “not-trans”, or “someone whose gender identity agrees with their body”, that was succinct and didn’t alienate trans folk or imply that they were “trans” in opposition to “normal”, which sounds gross and dehumanzing.
Like being “heterosexual” doesn’t shame anyone, nor should “cis”. And I have no problem letting a marginalized group define terms that apply to a system that would otherwise render them invisible or “abnormal” – it doesn’t affect me in any way that the term “cis” comes from the Trans & Genderqueer community. I think it’s only fair that they should be the ones to decide how we should use language to shape the social narrative around our collective existence – otherwise, we might never even have considered it.

Anyway, I hope this post helps clarify a few things. I want to be doing allyship properly, but I guess the best thing is always to look for resources from Trans advocates and let Trans folk be the arbiters of their own experiences. And please do correct me if anything I’ve said rings false, or could be improved upon.

Ellesar:

I don’t appreciate whoever it was having a go about the way I said ‘I am trans positive but’. I work with trans people so on a day to day level I know trans people. One of my colleagues left her previous work (to work with us) because that organisation would not work with trans people. This is more relevant than using the ‘right’ words – actually communicating with and supporting – which is what my organisation does.

It was far from clear in your previous post that you were only talking about what was comfortable for you personally. A fact which you seem to be completely aware of as evidenced by you saying you knew it’d get people going. So, ask me how many fucks I give about whether you appreciate me having a go at your wording.

sevenofmine – by getting people going I just meant that it would start a discussion, and I knew some would disagree with me.

I don’t need you to give a fuck as I do not have anything invested in your approval, I just wanted to put it in as you immediately interpreted my comment as ‘I am saying I am trans positive, but actually am not’. But whether you personally accept that is not important to me.

Shut up, Nicky. We’re cis. Deal with it. We are not the standard from which everyone else deviates.

You know how when white people talk about people of color they tend to say things like, “That black guy” yet when they talk about white folks it’s just, “That guy”? You know how straight people will say, “That gay guy”, but when talking about straight people it’s just, “That guy”?

That’s privilege. That’s what you are displaying here. Check it.

Jarnsaxa, it’s called “passing privilege”, and IDK any specific sites/essays but there’s always Google (super helpful, I know).

I’ve seen some pretty hot discussions about “passing privilege”. Basically, there are those who say that it’s no privilege at all to be seen as cis when you’re actually not, because then people don’t see you as who you really are. Others argue that it’s obviously a privilege, since if people assume you’re cis unless you tell them, you won’t face the same kind of discrimination and risk of violence and so on as people who are always perceived as trans by others.
The same thing could be extended to lots of other groups.

I’m bi but passes as straight until I tell people that I’m bi, since I’m married to a man. I’m squarely in the “it’s a privilege” camp. To be blunt, it seems to me that people who deny that it is a privilege to pass as a member of the majority group tend to be pretty young – people who are perceived as “normal young girls” but identify as pansexual and genderqueer. If you’re really young, it might seem more important to you to “be seen as you really are” than to, say, get that job you’re looking for. The older you get, the more mundane stuff becomes important, like getting that job, getting that apartment, and, well, not getting beaten up (I mean, that’s important to everyone, but I think people often become more risk aware as they grow older, while young people sometimes feel invincible unless it’s happened to them personally). And then you appreciate being perceived as “normal”.

What many people don’t realize is that Transgenderism is like creationism: inventing false facts that don’t stand up to scrutiny, claiming that science is hateful toward your beliefs, claiming to be persecuted when you can’t force your beliefs on other people, and attempts to silence and destroy non-believers. Transgenderism is a religious cult and in fact that transgender activists are usually pro-prostitution and anti women, lesbian and society.

You know, no matter how hard people like you try to frame your bigotry in terms of “logic” and “science,” the bigotry always eventually bursts out like a hideous moth. There’s no point trying to engage with you or refute anything you say – you’re beyond logic and reason, and also beyond empathy and basic human decency.

Eh. I’m generally averse to blind googles, given the vasty depths of incorrect, bad information out there. But thanks anyway!

I also think anyone who isn’t support of trans folks should find somewhere else to chill.

SupportIVE. Sorry.

The fuck is Nicky even trying to say?

“I have no idea about gender theory and I’m trying to pass on my narrow views I made up myself onto you guys? Also trans people are the devil.”

Yes, that sounds right.

The fuck is Nicky even trying to say?

What I mainly got out of it was “trans people creep me out, and I need a sciency-sounding smokescreen to convince myself that this means there is something wrong with them, and not with me.”

My husband identifies as queer/bi. I am sure that many people assume that he’s gay, because of the being married to a man situation. If he’d married a woman, they’d probably assume he was straight. Bisexual invisibility – one of the more useless superpowers.