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Would you like some wings with that ego stroking? Make big bucks by giving insecure men “the attention they crave”

Twin Peaks, where even the appetizers are shaped like breasts
Twin Peaks, where even the appetizers are shaped like breasts

ThinkProgress has gotten hold of an inadvertently hilarious internal document from the “breastaurant” chain Twin Peaks that provides an interesting glimpse into what those who run the company may actually think of the customers who pay their salaries.

Twin Peaks, as ThinkProgress writer Tara Culp-Ressler notes, is essentially Hooters on steroids, and the chain has been spreading like ebola; in 2013, it was the fastest-growing restaurant chain in the US. It also seems to be quite popular with Biker gangs; the gigantic biker shootout last weekend took place at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas.

The document — which the company insists was never distributed to employees — was leaked to ThinkProgress by an anonymous Twin Peaks employee. And it’s kind of a doozy, describing the company’s “target” demographic essentially as a bunch of insecure narcissistic manchildren desperate for attention from young women with gigantic bazongas who are required to smile and put up with their bullshit.

According to the document, the restaurant wants to target guys “who love to have their ego stroked by beautiful girls,” and promises to provide an environment “that feeds their ego with the attention they crave.” They describe their typical customer as someone who likes “attention from beautiful girls and being recognized in front of the guys,” as well as someone who doesn’t want to be asked what he’s thinking. 

If you leave out the bits about the “beautiful girls,” this strategy sounds an awful lot like the ego-stroking approach of some of the more influential figures in the Men’s Rights and GamerGate movement: pander to insecure men’s fantasies of victimization, tell them that they’re right to hate and fear feminists and women at large, and assure them that the nasty comments they go around leaving on every site that doesn’t ban them are actually a noble form of human rights activism. As GamerGatey YouTubers and Men’s “Human Rights” activists alike have learned, pandering to angry dudes can be a surprisingly lucrative money-raising strategy (at least in the short term).

Like the patrons of Twin Peaks, MRAs seem to especially like getting this kind of validation from women — hence the absurd popularity of Karen “GirlWritesWhat” Straughan’s sophomoric and soporific YouTube videos; hence the enthusiastic embrace of the female-fronted Honey Badgers as free speech martyrs by GamerGaters and others, who have happily sent along $30,000 in donations for a lawsuit against the Calgary Expo that seems highly unlikely to go anywhere, if it even happens at all.

I’ll have more on the Honey Badgers in a bit. In the meantime, I would like to remind you, my readers, my big handsome readers, how totally cool you are and would you like some wings with that?

Er, no, I meant that I would like to remind you that my Spite the Honey Badgers fund raiser is, last I checked, only  $39,529 short of its completely reasonable goal of $40,000, which is what all the economists I consulted* told me would be the amount of money I would need to make the Honey Badgers really annoyed.

Click here to donate. You don’t need a Pay Pal account. All you need to have is a little bit of money and a desire to Spite the Honey Badgers.

Thanks, hon. I’ll be right back with that giant mound of nachos.

NOTE: “All the economists I consulted” add up to zero. I did not actually consult any economists. Also, you’re not getting any nachos.

CORRECTION: I originally wrote that the Tara Culp-Ressler piece was on Talking Points Memo; it was on Think Progress.

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Who Knows (@ShiraMK)
6 years ago

This doesn’t have anything to do with the post but I’m going to leave this here for anyone to enjoy.

The comment section has been overrun by gators. Nothing new.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Who Knows,
That was awesome!

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

So men make these women wear scant outfits to work so that other men can leer at them and be served by them, yet a woman dressed like the waitresses are required to are “asking for it”.
Head they win. Tails we lose.

freemage
6 years ago

There’s been at least one attempt to do the ‘host club’ thing in America, too, but they tend to be considerably higher-end places, price-wise, rather than the comparatively low-rent Hooters.

And Buttercup, you’re correct–strip clubs are far more honest in terms of making it clear what’s happening. There is a fairly precise transaction going on, set rates for a specific period of time and an explicit definition of what is and is not acceptable behavior on the part of the customer. At Hooters/Twin Peaks/Tilted Kilt and other imitators, the lines get blurry, in no small part because the women are working for tips, rather than a clear price, and the tips come at the end of the encounter, not the beginning (thereby putting all the power in the hands of the customer).

Overall, I think I’d have less of an issue if these restaurants were higher-priced, with tipping being less of an issue, and with the waitstaff receiving much higher salaries in exchange for both the physical self-maintenance and the social ego-stroking that’s expected of them. (I’d say they should be paid a base of at least $25 an hour, with food and drinks priced accordingly.)

sevenofmine
6 years ago

@ Who Knows,

I watched that earlier, because slam poetry is the best thing ever. Fortunately I successfully resisted the urge to look at the comments.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

@gilshalos:
Amongst my real life friends, The Goblin Emperor has attained an almost mythic status. It’s the book so good that even the Puppies had to nominate it for a Hugo. We tell Chuck Norris Facts jokes about it. It’s an amazing book and I hope Addison does something great again in the future.

@Moggie:
I really, really loved Inland Empire; and while I can’t imagine a boobs-themed restaurant styled on that film, I can imagine a hotel based on it all too clearly.

To clarify: I am not saying it’s a good idea, because it’s really really not. I would travel a long distance to avoid that hotel. However, even now, I am unable to prevent my brain forming images of what it would be like.

Back on topic: Lea, Buttercup and freemage really manage to describe the reason I find such places distasteful and wish they did not exist. However, they’re a symptom of how our culture works and so I’m not sure what I can do to work against them. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I don’t think I’d be comfortable with a beefcake restaurant. I like to look at hot guys in states of undress, but I’d rather do it by watching True Blood or something. I have no desire to be flirted with by a man who has no interest in me. I know it’s fake. They know it’s fake. What’s the point? I’ve never understood how men manage to delude themselves into thinking bresteraunt servers actually want them.

I mean, I do understand. I guess. They see them as objects. The motive of “I’m going to flirt with this creep because my job requires it and because I need the tip money” never crosses these men’s minds because sex toys don’t have thoughts and motivations. Unless that motive is boner pleasing of course!

jollymonkey
6 years ago

Just FYI, the article is from ThinkProgress, not TalkingPointsMemo. 🙂

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

If the only place conventionally attractive women flirt with a man is at bresteraunts or strip clubs, wouldn’t that just highlight to him that conventionally attractive women aren’t interested in him unless it’s for money. I wonder if places like those just ultimately make men more resentful of women?

That would be an interesting experiment. Take one group of men to Hooters and a control group to a regular restaurant. Then put both groups in some other situation where they’re either rejected or ignored by conventionally attractive women and then measure misogynistic attitudes in the men afterwards.

A.A. Wils
6 years ago

@ Who Knows:
That poet hit the nail on the head about misogyny in gaming. I watched Anita Sarkeesian’s series on it awhile back. Her criticism was completely reasonable. There was nothing she said that wasn’t true, she wasn’t cherry picking, and she wasn’t being hyperbolic. That misogyny is there, and it’s front and center for a lot of games.

The folks that ended up being hyperbolic: gamergaters. They were the ones getting all ruffled about the criticism. They were the ones getting all emotional about it. You would think that at least some would say: “okay, you’ve made some good points here.” And maybe some did, but their voices were drowned out by the attacks, the threats, the doxxing.

It just seemed like they were using this whole “integrity in gaming journalism” thing as a ruse, a way to distract from the serious issues that are present in video games. Instead of facing the criticism head on, they manufactured some “problem” so that they can direct the attention away from misogyny and towards this false issue. And then, the sum result was that they showed their true colors with the rape and death threats. It’s like: “no, we’re not misogynists, but if you dare to accuse us of misogyny, we’ll rape and kill you–to prove that we’re not misogynists.”

Maybe I just have the “woman hive-mind” thing going on, but that sure looks like a whole lot of hamstering to me…

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

@A. A. Wils:
If you have the woman hive mind going on then I must count as a woman.

I mean, I get gamergate. I understand why it happened. The ‘gaters are by and large people whose early experience of the rest of the world was fairly negative, and who sought refuge in the escapism of video games. At the time, very few people played video games and so that became their clubhouse. Now that the rest of the world is getting into video games too, it’s no longer their clubhouse and they’re terrified of that; and because this is a very big deal to them psychologically they respond in a way that seems out of proportion to anyone with perspective on the matter but to them is entirely fair.

They hate women because when they were growing up, the only girls they saw were the girls who hung around on the shoulders of the guys who beat them up; they didn’t see the girls who stayed at home and read books or knitted. As a result they learned that the presence of women is an indicator that a space isn’t safe for them.

I get that. I am sympathetic to their pain. I was also a scared kid once upon a time. However, there are many people in this world who are terrified and who nonetheless manage not to lash out in pain; and there are even more people who are terrified and manage not to build an ideology out of their lashing-out. Therefore, while I get where they came from and am sympathetic to their pain, I cannot summon any sympathy for their actions.

So fuck them. If they speak for all gamers then I’m evidently not one; and if they claim to speak for all men then they can back off, because this is my gender and I get to choose what that means to me.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

Apologies for ranting. I didn’t realise that I was that angry.

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

@EJ
I thought it was a good rant. I liked the bit at the end, and the way you said it reminds me of why women and feminists frequently ask men to help them and appreciate those that do. MRAs and other douchecanoes simply don’t listen to women because they don’t care. Yes they call feminist leaning men manginas and disregard them too, but since those pricks hold the fact that they’re male as the highest value in their lives, if enough other blokes tell them “this is not cool and not acceptable as “masculinity” and you don’t represent us, fuck off”, the MRM might be more inclined to listen. Maybe. It will at least show them that they do not, in fact, speak for everyone with a penis.

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

P.S thanks for being one of those dudes EJ. 🙂

A.A. Wils
6 years ago

I second what sunnysombrera said, EJ. Thanks for being one of the good guys.

Trigger warning for those of us who were picked on and bullied when we were kids:

I concur that a lot of these gamer gate fellows were the invisible, the picked on, the “undateable” boys in high school. I understand where they are coming from, because I was a geeky, awkward girl (probably now just a geeky, awkward 38 year old woman–some things never change). I was picked on and made fun of and called “butter face” and was told I was so ugly I should just put a bag over my head or I should just kill myself–by boys, the jocks and the awkward ones alike. Kids can be pretty damn cruel. But I didn’t develop a hatred of men because I was picked on by them, and never had a boyfriend or was kissed until I was almost 18 years old. They don’t have an excuse for their hatred. They don’t have an excuse for seeing women as just props, things to be used.

They may have sat there in their room playing video games every night thinking of the girls that were hanging off the guys, and think “why not me?” Didn’t anyone ever tell them they aren’t entitled to have a girl hanging off them? If they developed a grudge against women because they didn’t have a girlfriend, well, no one promised anyone a rose garden. My own adolescence was anything but.

I also agree that they see their games as a “no girls allowed” clubhouse, where they could hide from the world, and now their “sacred space” is being invaded. Well, that’s not anything new. As a kid, I was playing video games and RPGs like crazy. D&D, Vampire the Masquerade, Star Wars–those were good times. I was the Mortal Kombat champion in my group of friends, and I also kicked butt at MechWarrior, Doom, and Wolfenstein. I was playing some of the RPGs online–via BBS. That really dates me, doesn’t it? Back in the days of BBS and Sysops. Myself, and tons of other girls were doing that. So either the ‘gaters had their heads in the sand all that time, or it was a voluntary ignorance.

In any event, yes, they’re still those boys who fear girls because they’ve been hurt by the girls not wanting to be with them. Deep down inside, they’re the lost boys who never grew up. Only difference now, their misogyny is dangerous. They have all the rights of an adult so that they can spew hatred with little to no consequences (because mom isn’t around to ground them for being nasty little boys anymore).

I have empathy for anyone that had a rough adolescence. It’s hard on almost everyone except those few people who seem to have it all. But, there’s no excuse for hatred.

Moocow
Moocow
6 years ago

@EJ

I think that’s spot on. I was very much like that. I was constantly bullied and had the hardest time making friends, so video games became an escape for me (Pokemon, Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter, and Metal Gear Solid were and still are some of my favorites). My biggest issue was that too few people shared my interest (most of whom were just depressing to be around) and my parents HATED video games to the point of mocking me and shaming me for playing them… it was not cool…

I never got the whole blaming women thing though. Sure, there were plenty of girls who made fun of gamers but there were also a lot of guys. And although I did assume that video games were not a ‘girl’ thing, I was pleasantly surprised in highschool to find girls who did play video games (a good friend of mine lent me Final Fantasy X and I completely fell in love with that game).

And yet, when I watched Anita’s videos, I was like “Yeah, those are fair criticisms”. I couldn’t believe the vile reaction she got…. I was completely disgusted to the point where I almost didn’t want to associate myself with video games at all. Fortunately I found this website and the mockery has been very therapeutic. 🙂

I think another part of the problem is that, since many of these Gators have been bullied as kids, they cannot fathom the idea that theymight be bullies. To them it’s not logikal. Obviously you’re either the bullies or the bullied, and they believe themselves firmly in the bullied camp. Hence why, to them, Anita is supposedly bullying them.

Luzbelitx
6 years ago

They hate women because when they were growing up, the only girls they saw were the girls who hung around on the shoulders of the guys who beat them up; they didn’t see the girls who stayed at home and read books or knitted. As a result they learned that the presence of women is an indicator that a space isn’t safe for them.

I feel compelled to point out that if they hate women for this reason, then they already had a misogynist mindset and only needed an excuse for that hate.

On the other hand, I wonder how many HarassGaters have re-framed and/or repressed good memories about women in their childhood /teens.

I’m already used to this claim being the background noise of any GG “discussion”, but I’m having a hard time believing it’s as true as they would wish – what are the chances this stereotype holds true every.single.time?

Maybe some of them were ok at school but it bothered them that their parents made them share their videogames (maybe even with their sisters)

Maybe some are preferring not to think about that one (maybe nerdy?) girl who was sort of a companion for them (after all it was long ago and we all decided our story is that we’ve been bullied, period!).

Maybe if we look closely to their real stories, we’ll find many cases of victims of bullyingand many others of people who were not. And I’m betting this last group mostly mingled among the other and used them as shields.

After all, HarrastmentGaters think lying is a totally legit way to interact with others, why wouldn’t they also lie to themselves?

Also, the whole movement looks way more identified with bullies than with victims.

Maybe I just can’t believe the slightest stuff they claim, with all the sock-puppeting and “infiltrating missions” and constant flow of bullshit.

Lynn
Lynn
6 years ago

It’s not sex that sells, it’s women’s bodies, so I propose that all advertisements and media featuring scantily clad women be replaced with cute animals from now on. Get rid of the breastraunts too, or at least hire transvestites just to piss these men off.

potterchik
potterchik
6 years ago

Like Hooters I wish they would just call it BOOBS, and stop being so coy about it.

AJ Milne
AJ Milne
6 years ago

Lynch is back in?

Okay. Still processing…

This is completely messing with me. I thought I’d achieved equilibrium with the 21st century simply by accepting everything was going to be consistently awful. This is an alarming outlier…

I’m gonna wake up any minute and discover that actually I’m still trapped in the black lodge, right?

yutolia
yutolia
6 years ago

@RoscoeTCat

Or he’s thinking something so horrendous that he knows it shouldn’t be uttered in any kind of public setting…

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

Awwww, you guys. I’m blushing, and I shouldn’t be because I’m on the way to a retro Mage: the Ascension one-off. Glad I struck a chord.

@Luzbelitz:
I definitely think a lot of people choose to frame their story as a victim narrative and/or forget the nice bits in order to fit the story they’re trying to impose on it. In that sense I agree with you. I also agree that there’s certainly some underlying misogyny going on there.

However, GG came from somewhere. While their self-narratives are meandering and absurd, they didn’t spring from nowhere fully formed as soon as Gjani had a bad breakup and wrote a novella about it. There was a preexisting movement there waiting to erupt, which is why it quickly moved on from the initial spark and started going after people like Sarkeesian, Alexander and Totilo. If Gjani hadn’t ignited it, it would have happened elsewhere. Maybe the Hugo awards would have been the spark.

Which does not excuse the GGers for their actions at all. Fuck all of them.

Now I must away. My Forces/Correspondence rotes call.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

sn0rkmaiden
“I expect RazorBladeKandy would have that exact POV about it, I once trawled through one of his videos where he concluded that prostitutes are worse than paedophiles because they ‘exploit’ men’s sexual desires by making them pay for sex. Uh-huh.”
http://i.imgur.com/JfX8Rig.jpg

Thanks Who Knows that was awesome. Gamergaters are hyprocritical terrorists that’s all they are. Ethnics in terrorism.

freemage
6 years ago

They hate women because when they were growing up, the only girls they saw were the girls who hung around on the shoulders of the guys who beat them up; they didn’t see the girls who stayed at home and read books or knitted. As a result they learned that the presence of women is an indicator that a space isn’t safe for them.

I’m going to point out that, unless these guys were homeschooled, they ‘didn’t see’ these women in a more sinister way than this suggests. They didn’t see them because any girl who wasn’t a cheerleader or homecoming queen candidate wasn’t on their radar. There’s a lot of social programming these guys bought into that led them to the point where they would rather be miserable and alone than possibly seek happiness with women who were their ‘conventional beauty and popularity peers’.

The fact is, maintaining that sort of social standing takes effort and work and interest in a lot of things that these guys had no interest in–fashion, beauty techniques, social networking, just for starters. The guys these women were ‘hanging off of’ had at least compatible interests, and so were genuinely attractive to the girls and vice-versa. But the GG crowd were so fixated on whether or not the girl was ‘hot’ that they ignored all of that other stuff–and then didn’t understand how the lines were being drawn.

Moggie
Moggie
6 years ago

Moocow:

And yet, when I watched Anita’s videos, I was like “Yeah, those are fair criticisms”. I couldn’t believe the vile reaction she got…. I was completely disgusted to the point where I almost didn’t want to associate myself with video games at all.

Even if I vehemently disagreed with Anita Sarkeesian (I don’t, I’m a supporter), I would still be appalled at the reaction. Look at Jack Thompson: he has said ridiculous and reprehensible things about games and gamers, and his goals were/are more harmful… but never once have I thought that it would be justified to threaten him with death or rape.

maghavan
maghavan
6 years ago

You even Stroke bro?

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

I think gaters got their misogyny from the culture at large. Every predator and bully has some excuse where they refrain themselves as victims. It seems to me that more people were bullied at some point than not. I doubt gaters were more bullied than people in most other cultures. They’re misogynists because they never saw women as anything more than sex objects or mommies.

I can buy that not being popular and not getting dates exacerbated preexisting aggrieved entitlement, but I’m not willing to accept that not getting a girlfriend causes misogyny.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

BTW, has anyone seen if the manosphere has reacted to the Josh Duggar thing yet? The Duggar family themselves represent the kind of traditional misogyny not covered here, but I’m betting MRAs and Heartiste and the like will be supporters of them now.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

I’ve never understood how men manage to delude themselves into thinking bresteraunt servers actually want them.

I mean, I do understand. I guess. They see them as objects. The motive of “I’m going to flirt with this creep because my job requires it and because I need the tip money” never crosses these men’s minds because sex toys don’t have thoughts and motivations. Unless that motive is boner pleasing of course!

I wouldn’t be surprised if some guys think that the kind of star treatment that they enjoy at brestaurants is what all women should do for them all the time, everywhere. An awful lot of guys don’t feel any problem with demanding a perfect stranger’s attention if she happens to be female in public. I can see how some of the entitled dudes would take that to the next level be pissed that all women weren’t spontaneously doting on them for existing. The brestaurant waitstaff are merely fulfilling their natural role as nurturing sexpots while the rest of us stubbornly deny them their due.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

@WWTH – Holy cow, I hadn’t heard about that and had to google it. Those poor kids. I hope that the victims actually did get some good, legitimate counselling.

Catalpa
Catalpa
6 years ago

I’m pretty sure that most, if not all people have been in at least one situation in which they genuinely feel victimized by someone or something else. I don’t know if anyone can claim to be without scars. The difference between these assholes and decent people is that decent people have empathy for others and choose not to become a victimizer, while these dudebros seem to believe that the only way they will be ‘ safe’ is if they aggressively and preemptively attack anyone that could possibly cause them any mild discomfort (well, if they feel like they can do it without repercussion, because bullies are also cowards).

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

FM,
I’m guessing not. In the quiverfull movement, girls are told they probably did something to deserve and then they’re coerced into forgiving their abuser whether they want to or not. Here’s a good comprehensive timeline. http://defamer.gawker.com/the-web-has-known-about-josh-duggar-for-years-when-did-1706258269#_ga=1.164639676.265643645.1410895214

The Duggars are full of shit when they act like they turned Josh in and got him counseling. At least TLC just cancelled their show.

tealily
tealily
6 years ago

What I’m wondering right now is if a gender swapped version of the breastaurant would be profitable. That is, would straight women come to a wine bar with scantily clad servers who stroke their egos and flirt with them?

In Japan at least, the answer is YES.

No! That can’t be! The young, beautiful Asian women are traditional and submissive! They don’t want that! They’re waiting for all the American, white, MRA men to go get them because they are the manliest, manly-man men ever to Man!!

Bwahahahahahaha!

Nameless Wonder
Nameless Wonder
6 years ago

Ugh, Gators. Male supremacists the same as their MRA, MGTOW, and antifeminist cousins. I play games, and I refuse to call myself a gamer because of them. I’m not a gamer, I’m an electronic entertainment consumer. I’m not a gamer, I’m an interactive digital art appreciator. Oh look! I just added croutons to their word salad!

The viewpoints Gators have about prostitutes is about as sickening as the Honolulu police department arresting trafficking victims from Asia and charging them with sexual assault. Sexual assault! These women may not even be consenting to be prostituted, and they are charging THEM with sexual assault!? Jumping jesus on a pogo stick, has the world gone insane?

So the male supremacists are pissy about feminists defining rape to include sexual contact that has been pressured out of, coerced, or blackmailed out of a woman. But they do NOTHING about the fact that these Asian trafficking victims (I refuse to assume consent until I have proof that they actually have consented) have been charged with crimes that may have been perpetrated against THEM.

Surprise! Defining rape is all about what they think it should it should be! Nobody else is allowed to have a different viewpoint or closely examine the nuances of consent. That would look too much like freedom of speech.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

… It’s kinda fucked up that the only thing that surprises me about the Duggars is which one of them turned out to be the molester. I could have sworn it was the father.

Ugh. Poor girls.

Nameless Wonder
Nameless Wonder
6 years ago

I have been following the Duggar news too and it is an understatement to say I am appalled. I am appalled that this young man was allowed to molest at least four of his own sisters and someone outside their family for OVER A YEAR until Jim Bob turned him into a cop that is now serving 56 years for child pornography. The “cop” gave Josh a good stern talking to, because isn’t that what all good upstanding young white men deserve? A second chance! Even after multiple crimes. A black kid would have been ripped a part by the conservative media for that.

While Ms. Duggar is proud to say that her son received treatment, it was a non-accredited road trip to Arkansas to help remodel a building. Yes, this counts as “work counseling treatment!” Sure does! Why are we all being so hard on them? Give them credit, they aren’t perfect! No family is perfect and obviously they know from experience which is why they presume LGBTQA people are just as fucked up as they are and stand in front of their basic human rights to get married and live openly in society without people hating them because beliefs.

And then to say nothing that Josh Duggar himself is a victim, because how else do we explain his bad behavior? It’s not like we live in a male supremacist, misogynist society that already treats women and girls like dirt and he is growing up in a family so extreme his mother popped out 19 kids for God. Sure, that had nothing to do with it! While I do think that Jim Bob being buddies with a cop that consumed child porn is cause to investigate the entire web of molestation and incest that probably exists under the Superior Christian Facade; once again the narrative revolves around poor Josh and to hell with his victims who were FORCIBLY molested, or the fact that he was executive director of an anti-LGBTQA hate group that also opposed abortion and progressive politics.

Republicans are of course, decrying Democrats and progressives for being appalled at this wholly fucked up situation by saying “Well you’re just as bad! Because I said so and therefore makes it magically true! But don’t you dare call me privileged!” Gee, where have we heard THAT before? #GamerGate.

proxieme
proxieme
6 years ago

I’m going to point out that, unless these guys were homeschooled, they ‘didn’t see’ these women in a more sinister way than this suggests. They didn’t see them because any girl who wasn’t a cheerleader or homecoming queen candidate wasn’t on their radar. There’s a lot of social programming these guys bought into that led them to the point where they would rather be miserable and alone than possibly seek happiness with women who were their ‘conventional beauty and popularity peers’.

The fact is, maintaining that sort of social standing takes effort and work and interest in a lot of things that these guys had no interest in–fashion, beauty techniques, social networking, just for starters. The guys these women were ‘hanging off of’ had at least compatible interests, and so were genuinely attractive to the girls and vice-versa. But the GG crowd were so fixated on whether or not the girl was ‘hot’ that they ignored all of that other stuff–and then didn’t understand how the lines were being drawn.

This, but I’d also add that some of them probably never got up the nerve to ask out the girl, hot or not. I mean, I wasn’t popular (except kind of with the Advanced Academic and Drama crowds, but not “popular-popular”) and found out years after High School that multiple decent enough guys either (a) thought about approaching me but never did or (b) asked me out “through” a good guy friend of mine…who never relayed the messages.
Meanwhile, I was there not dating anyone through most of high school and completely oblivious to any roundabout flirtation that might’ve been happening (because that’s the way I awkwardly roll).

I wonder how many of these guys have struck out with one or two girls, absorbed the Red Pill nonsense and/or truthiness from mass media about how dating works, and’ve given themselves failing grades without even really trying – preemptive bitterness.

I mean, anyone who thinks that dorks can’t get it on in HS never knew anyone in Band, but that’s a self-contained dorkosphere with ready made, semi-compatible dates at the ready.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

Oh, and apparently, one of his victims is still a minor. Which means she was only four or five years old or it was a lot more recent than he’s admitting.

BRB, puking forever.

proxieme
proxieme
6 years ago

Blockquote Mammoth.

Why does it do that?

I know that I closed everything correctly – I’m on my laptop (notice, if you will, the lack of rampant typos) and double-checked.

My comment begins at “This, but I’d also add […]”

spacelawn
6 years ago

@SFHC

How did you come up with that brilliant name?!

proxieme
proxieme
6 years ago

Republicans are of course, decrying Democrats and progressives for being appalled at this wholly fucked up situation by saying “Well you’re just as bad! Because I said so and therefore makes it magically true! But don’t you dare call me privileged!” Gee, where have we heard THAT before? #GamerGate.

How are progressives just as bad?
Is this another iteration of the Homosexuality = Pedophilia & Equal Marriage = People Marrying Their Dogs arguments?

proxieme
proxieme
6 years ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if some guys think that the kind of star treatment that they enjoy at brestaurants is what all women should do for them all the time, everywhere. An awful lot of guys don’t feel any problem with demanding a perfect stranger’s attention if she happens to be female in public. I can see how some of the entitled dudes would take that to the next level be pissed that all women weren’t spontaneously doting on them for existing. The brestaurant waitstaff are merely fulfilling their natural role as nurturing sexpots while the rest of us stubbornly deny them their due.

There’s definitely this aspect, but I’d also argue that some of the “Why aren’t you smiling?” strain BS stems from a slightly less awful place: When you really talk with some guys, they seem to think that it’s their job to keep women happy. Like, if a woman’s not happy in their presence, it’s their fault, they’re falling down as men.

I mean, it’s still bullshit, but it’s BS that’s been produced after eating good-if-desperately-flawed-and-kinda-egocentric-in-a-toddler-way-intentions-and-motivations rather than the more festering kind that comes from pure, unfettered malignant narcissism and entitlement.
The first can be talked through once you get them to back away from the precipice of defensiveness. The second can’t.

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

I think it’s “progressives are just as bad” on the same level that misogynists think feminists hate men, when “hating men” = demanding that women aren’t treated like baby factories and fucktoys. Misogynist, on the other hand = viewing women purely as baby factories and fucktoys, but “we don’t actually HATE women,” they cry, “we love having sex with them see!”

I only have two hands but the double facepalm just isn’t enough…

proxieme
proxieme
6 years ago

They may have sat there in their room playing video games every night thinking of the girls that were hanging off the guys, and think “why not me?” Didn’t anyone ever tell them they aren’t entitled to have a girl hanging off them? If they developed a grudge against women because they didn’t have a girlfriend, well, no one promised anyone a rose garden. My own adolescence was anything but.

And, you know – why didn’t they ask the girls if they wanted to play D&D?
I sure as hell would’ve loved to.
I grew up on the end of a dirt road in the sticks with no easy access to other kids/younger teens my age (by the time I could drive, I worked all the time to be able to afford my freedom…er, car) – no cable, no internet, but at least I had my parade of gaming systems – and I would’ve been so down with it if somone’s parents could’ve driven me.
As it was, I didn’t get to discover it until I was a young parent and all-night games were off the table 🙁 It was still fun, but not the same.

Gilashos, et al – THANK YOU for talking about The Goblin Emporer. I had an Audible credit hanging out. Now I don’t 😀

AJ – Aw, the 21st Century’s not been all bad. Animation’s been experiencing quite a boom. And there’s…quality TV series?

Nameless Wonder
Nameless Wonder
6 years ago

I mean, anyone who thinks that dorks can’t get it on in HS never knew anyone in Band, but that’s a self-contained dorkosphere with ready made, semi-compatible dates at the ready.

Exactly.

But then, they don’t ever seem to want a date with someone as awkward and invisible as they are. Nope, dad told them never to settle for second best and sure as fuck they won’t. So they go to PUA and redpiller dives and proceed to act like manipulative assholes because they feel entitled to date-up while condemning women for hypergamy. They want gorgeous models to look beyond their exterior and angsty attitude while simultaneously defending their right to use women as fucktoys. Oh the hypocrisy, it burns like a urinary tract infection.

Nameless Wonder
Nameless Wonder
6 years ago

I googled “Hooters waitress fired” and got article hits of a woman being 5’8 and 132 pounds called “fat,” and a black waitress fired for having blonde highlights. Because “black women aren’t supposed to have blonde hair.” FFS

proxieme
proxieme
6 years ago

I think it’s “progressives are just as bad” on the same level that misogynists think feminists hate men, when “hating men” = demanding that women aren’t treated like baby factories and fucktoys.

That, and Hating Men = Leveling Criticism Against Any System in Which They Feel Vested – goes back to the whole hyper-personalization of criticism thing.
Feminists saying something like, “Traditionally, patriarchal societies and their institutions have manifested harm by X, Y, Z” = “MEN ARE AWFUL AND WE HATE YOUUUUUUUU!”

“But, no,” the feminists reply, “Patriarchy, especially standards of toxic masculinity, harm men as we–..”
“AND NOW YOU’RE SAYING THAT ALL MEN ARE TOXIC!!! HAVE YOU NO SHAME?!? NO DECENCY?!?”

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

I hadn’t heard the Duggar news. Christ, I feel sick now.

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

I used to frequent a site called The Wartburg Watch, a Christian based site that documents what is happening in extreme Christian circles. Like how David documents the worst/stupidest of what is happening in the manosphere, TWW tends to show the worst/stupidest of what is happening within Christian Patriarchy (usually. It does cover what happens in some other places e.g. homophobic churches).

This business with the Duggars is, I’m sad to say, part of an emerging pattern. David doesn’t document Christian Patriarchy stuff very often but there are a number of pastors of very large churches/organisations who are facing lawsuits for sexual abuse of women/children or cover up of sexual abuse within the church. More and more as time goes on. I feel that this scandal with Josh means that the connection between abuse and an obsession with “submissive women” is maybe more than just coincidence…

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Like the Duggar friend Bill Gothard.