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Red Pill Redditor angry that people think “any attempt to coerce a woman into sex is automatically ‘abuse.'”

The Red Pill: A Choking Hazard
The Red Pill: A Choking Hazard

A lot of Men’s Rights Activists, would-be pickup artists, and other so-called “Red Pillers” like to complain that feminists have so muddied up the issue of sexual consent that men today can never really be sure if the sex they’re having is actual consensual sex or some newfangled variety of rape.

But in fact the ones doing most of the muddying are them — in some cases because they would like to roll back the progress we’ve made on the issue of consent over the last several decades and return to a world in which pressuring and manipulating and even directly coercing a woman into saying “yes” to sex they don’t want was considered an appropriate “technique” in a man’s dating playbook. 

Most of them would prefer not to state this outright, and instead talk endlessly about the evils of “regret rape” and an alleged epidemic of “false rape accusations.” But once in a while they let slip what they really mean.

Case in point: a highly revealing, and heavily upvoted, post from the Red Pill subreddit in which one aspiring “game” master calling himself Archwinger expresses his dismay that so many people think “any attempt to coerce a woman into sex is automatically ‘abuse.'”

He goes on to argue, remarkably, that his refusal to see coerced sex as rape or even abuse is a sign of just how deeply Red Pillers like him respect women.

Our detractors assume women are idiots, and therefore, it should be a federal offence to ever attempt to coerce a woman into sex, because women that agree to be with such men are apparently, by definition, mentally impaired. 

In his mind, caring about abused women, and trying to understand the many complicated reasons they may choose to stay with abusers, is a sign that feminists “assume women are idiots.”

The occasion for Archwinger’s little rant was a post elsewhere on Reddit — he doesn’t link to it —

telling the tale of a 17-year-old girl and her controlling, manipulative, abusive 23-year-old boyfriend who took great pains to isolate her from her friends and family, demand sex on every occasion they would meet (and threaten to dump her or kick her out of his house if she didn’t comply), and some other really shitty behaviors, like physical violence and driving off and leaving her in another state.  

The kicker: the abusive boyfriend in the story was said to be a big fan of, you guessed it, The Red Pill subreddit.

Archwinger quickly tries to distance The Red Pill from this douchebag, declaring him to be

a sniveling loser who had to resort to insecure, jealous, and controlling behavior because he didn’t have options with other women, wasn’t an attractive or valuable man, and was desperately afraid of losing this girl.

In other words, as Archwinger writes, “this guy isn’t the ‘alpha male’ a Red Pill guy strives to be.”

Archwinger seems to have forgotten that various “Red Pill” and “game” gurus regularly recommend “gaslighting” and other forms of emotional abuse in order to keep wives and girlfriends, as they see it, in line. Indeed, you may recall the time that the repellent “pickup guru” Heartiste actually suggested that a number of the abusive behaviors listed on the Duluth “Power and Control Wheel” — a tool used by anti-domestic violence counselors — were great ways to get the upper hand with women.

Even more ironically, after dismissing the “sniveling loser” of a boyfriend who is so un-alpha he regularly threatened to break up with his girlfriend if she wouldn’t have sex with him right then and there, Archwinger turns around and suggests that this kind of manipulative abuse isn’t abuse at all.

Assuming there’s “no perceived power disparity or significant age difference or anything like that,” Archwinger argues, telling a woman to “[h]ave sex with me or we’re through” isn’t abusive; it’s just a simple question a woman can say “yes” or “no” to. He complains that

The modern, anti-Red-Pill viewpoint is that no woman would ever put up with that garbage. The only correct choice is for that woman to dump the “abusive” shithead she’s dating (because any attempt to coerce a woman into sex is automatically “abuse.” You’re supposed to buy her jewelry every weekend, not say a word about sex, and hope she fucks you out of the goodness of her heart).

Well, no. No one needs to buy anyone any jewelry. And no one is required to pity-fuck anyone “out of the goodness of [their] heart[s].” If your girlfriend has sex with you, it should be because she wants to have sex with you (as you do, with her).

It’s kind of amazing that Archwinger — at least as he frames things here — seems to see no third option between a direct demand for sex in the form of manipulative ultimatum and a creepy, passively aggressive “Nice Guy” attempt to guilt trip women into having sex by buying them expensive presents.

There is another way, guys: you could just fucking ask her. Not out of the blue with someone you don’t know, and not rudely, but in some appropriate manner, at an appropriate time and place when there’s some evidence that she might be interested in having sex with you as well. The exact wording of your question isn’t really terribly important; just ask.

Naturally, the assembled Red Pillers largely agreed with Archwinger’s creepy, rapey analysis.

A few had quibbles. Redpillschool, a moderator of the subreddit, argued —  in a comment that won more than a hundred upvotes — that Archwinger was too quick to assume that older men have more power in relationships with younger women. Because women have tits, and tits are power. No, really:

[W]omen are naturally turned on by and attracted to older, established, successful men. But if a man takes advantage of this — he’s wrong. He’s bad.

It becomes politically incorrect to use your advantages to attract women. You should date somebody your own age.

What about beauty? If age and status boost men’s SMV, then beauty and youth are women’s equivalent. Feminists don’t seem to care that a young beautiful woman has such an enormous amount of power, they can make a living off of just having tits, control men, get men to buy them things, and a variety of other things.

This is what Warren Farrell infamously (and a little anachronistically) has called women’s “miniskirt power.”

Another commenter had a more, well, fundamental issue with Archwinger’s analysis.

One issue I have with this post that is causing some dissonance within me is your assumption that women are logical and can think with reason. Though often written with snark, many posts here assume exactly the opposite. Therefore it is often suggested that men treat women as they would children (amused mastery) and take the lead in making final decisions.

Archwinger — you know, the great respecter of women — replied that women aren’t inherently stupid and illogical; society makes them that way.

Women aren’t stupid or incapable of reason. We just happen to live in a society where narcissistic bitches are lavished with attention and praised, and women never have to grow up, so the odds are that one or more women you date during your lifetime will behave in a manner that’s frankly kind of childish, and that you don’t want to validate. (insert obligatory “not all women” and “men too sometimes” language here so that nobody bothers replying with that idiocy)

Contrast that with feminism, which is advocating for a complete removal of all agency and responsibility from women, just not using those words because then it sounds stupid. …

Feminism seeks laws that remove agency from women. Did she have any alcohol in her system, then later regret sex? Rape. Man’s fault. Did she say yes, but not clearly and enthusiastically? Rape. Man’s fault. In a few years, you’ll probably see them push for expanding the definition of statutory rape to include an age difference of more than a certain amount (because a 35 year old man with a steady job dating a 21-year-old in college is clearly all about power and manipulation, because young women definitely aren’t attracted to good looks and social status and financial stability.)

There’s a lot of nonsense in his reply, but it’s that last bit that’s the most revealing: Archwinger understands perfectly that there’s a power differential between a thirtysomething man and a college-aged woman; he just wants to pretend it doesn’t matter.

Archwinger’s post, and the responses it generated, suggest that most Red Pillers are aware, as well, that when women end up “regretting” a sexual encounter that the man allegedly thought was consensual, it’s not because women are flighty and irresponsible and vindictive monsters out to punish innocent men. It’s because the woman in question was being coerced into it. And that isn’t “regret rape.” It’s just plain rape.

Red Pillers, or at least a significant number of them, are well aware that coerced sexual consent is no more valid than a “forced confession.” They just don’t want to remove coercion from their “seduction” toolkit.

H/T — r/againstmensrights

EDIT: A few additions and changes in the penultimate paragraph  to make the point clearer.

 

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proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

@katelynjecmen – I’m sorry. That sucks.

My version of internet hugs:

http://i.imgur.com/37tpNYYm.jpg

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

@Rockstar Dinosaur Pirate Princess – thank YOU, for coming up with such an elegant metaphor and jump-starting so many conversations. Tea doesn’t have the baggage that sex does, so it’s a brilliant way to get people to see the underlying principle.

@fruitloopsie “Don’t take the red pill. You will become a rapist, abusive and stupid as you see here. ”

The red pill really should come with a huge list of side effects and warnings. “May cause impaired thinking and profound lack of empathy. If inflated self-importance lasts longer than four hours, consult a medical professional. Do not take this product while operating internet, keyboards, or other heavy machinery. Women of childbearing age should avoid contact.”

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants “The red pill really should come with a huge list of side effects and warnings. “May cause impaired thinking and profound lack of empathy. If inflated self-importance lasts longer than four hours, consult a medical professional. Do not take this product while operating internet, keyboards, or other heavy machinery. Women of childbearing age should avoid contact.”

Not to mention the risk of minor/moderate/severe genital evo-psych.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants:
If the red pill were to have the list of side effects on it, then nobody would take it; and that means the grifters like Valizadeh and Elam would need to find productive employment elsewhere.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

@EJ Oh, I think the TeRPers would still take it, if they thought it would increase their chances of getting laid. They’d swallow plutonium and jump off a bridge just to up their notch count. It also nicely covers up those nagging feelings of insecurity that come from self-absorption and lack of accomplishment. Instead of spots in front of their eyes, they see scapegoats.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants:
This raises a chicken-and-egg query. Which came first, the red pill or the judging themselves by their notch count?

Gipsz Jakab
Gipsz Jakab
5 years ago

@Buttercup

Now I have to wonder if someone posed as a Terper and insistently proclaimed that swallowing plutonium and jumping off bridges made one “alpha”, how many of them would actually be dumb enough to do it. (But morbid humor aside, let’s not do that, trying to get them to off themselves is a bit too much. A bit.)

Side note: dammit, now on top of all the truly repulsive shit they’ve done, just to add insult to injury, one of these fucks has infested Warframe, too.

Ellesar
Ellesar
5 years ago

I recently had an argument with a man in comments about an article relating to coercion of anal sex in teen relationships that led to the injury of girls who were under 16. The man in question WOULD NOT accept that the boys had done ANYTHING wrong, and kept cracking on about agency and taking responsibility. Then mentioning yoga pants and Kim Kardashian! It would appear that these girls deserve everything they get because they wear a particular garment, and KK is a lousy role model.

That this is a pervasive attitude is really worrying. These are very young girls who are being expected to handle everything as if they are women of the world of 30. As if there are not significant pressures to conform to all sorts of things, as if girls are all so super confident that they are impervious to unreasonable expectations. Even a young woman in her early 20s is still developing in many ways and ALL of us have fragile self esteem in some ways, or at different times.

That the Duluth Wheel is being bandied around as a tool for a man to get more sex, or a more compliant girlfriend is the most disgusting part of this. It shows that these men are FULLY aware of how scummy they are, and that they are more than happy to be an abuser. I would ask where they get such a disgusting attitude, but I know the answer.

A.A. Wils
5 years ago

“Contrast that with feminism, which is advocating for a complete removal of all agency and responsibility from women, just not using those words because then it sounds stupid.”

:Facepalm: This is one of those examples bordering on “not even wrong,” because it is so far away from any rational thought that anyone with a lick of common sense is often reduced to head shaking, facepalms and I-can’t-evens. The above statement is so breathlessly stupid…I just can’t even…

Archwing: I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

(Sorry for the anger, folks, but something about Mr. Archwing’s tirade stomped on my last nerve today–maybe it’s the breathless stupidity)

the 4th survivor
the 4th survivor
5 years ago

I think what Archwinger said in his last comment was mostly spot on. Western women aren’t forced to grow up and feminists really do seek to remove agency from women. The whole “everything is rape” thing feminists pull is one good example but another one is how feminists complain about “slut shaming and vilify pro lifers. They want women to be able to have sex with as many men as they want without anyone criticizing them for it and without them having to deal with any kind of consequences for it like having to raise a baby. Of course they only want women to have these privileges. They don’t want men to have a legal right to ditch their parental responsibilities, only women.

I don’t expect anyone here to realize any of this because the feminist brainwashing is too severe but that doesn’t make it not true though.

A.A. Wils
5 years ago

@the 4th survivor:

Okay, so you’re saying that if we disagree with you, we’re wrong, because brainwashing by eeebil feminists. As long as we agree with you, then we’re not brainwashed. Way to logic, man. Works to completely secure your view of the world, doesn’t it?

Feminism IS about agency for women. It is about the choices women have to pursue a career or not, to have bodily integrity, to not be the property of anyone. Heck, feminism is about being seen and respected as a human being–not as some sexual object or chattel, got it? And as for women having sex with anyone they want–yup. We have rights to decide with whom we will have sex with. What’s your problem with that?

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
5 years ago

Oh funsies, TeRPer ridiculousness!

The kicker: the abusive boyfriend in the story was said to be a big fan of, you guessed it, The Red Pill subreddit.

Archwinger quickly tries to distance The Red Pill from this douchebag, declaring him to be

a sniveling loser who had to resort to insecure, jealous, and controlling behavior because he didn’t have options with other women, wasn’t an attractive or valuable man, and was desperately afraid of losing this girl.

Man manipulates and coerces one woman: loser.

Man manipulates and coerces many women simultaneously: so alpha.

Red Pill logick for the win!!!

katelynjecmen
katelynjecmen
5 years ago

Thank you proxieme

The reason I stated what I did I think is because the counter argument made from someone who has this experience needs to be said, I think anyone questioning either side of the argument has to know the costs of such decisions on another person. I cannot say that my rapist was a red piller as I don’t know, but I do know he gaslighted me a lot, used the power he held over me through a place to live vs living on the street and guilting the hell out of me to get what he wanted out of me. How anyone can justify such a think as normal or the right way to get what you desire is beyond me. But what I can say is that its obvious they feel the need to justify it, my guess is they prefer that these laws go away so that they don’t have to feel like a bad person for doing bad things.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

@the 4th survivor,

I think what Archwinger said in his last comment was mostly spot on … I don’t expect anyone here to realize any of this because the feminist brainwashing is too severe but that doesn’t make it not true though.

Just because you think something is true doesn’t mean that it’s so. Unless you’re well-educated on the topic, actually, it’s a pretty good indicator that your opinion is wrong.

I’m not going to bother taking your opinion or statement apart piecemeal; there’s not enough worth addressing there.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

It’s kind of odd that they always want women to grow up into young girls who never age.

It’s a Hollywood fantasy, plain and simple.

Speaking of which, 37-year-old Maggie Gyllenhaal just got told she was too old to play “love interest” to a man of 55. When did she become such a crone? Oh well…don’t despair, Maggie, you’re just the right age to play his love interest’s MOTHER!

Mathieu Tremblay
5 years ago

@the 4th survivor:

Why exactly should women be punished for having sex? Or “face consequences” as you put it? If it’s perfectly fine when men have as much sex as they want (and for the record, it is), why is it wrong when women do the same?

Also, why should women be forced to carry out unwanted pregnancies? Why should men be the ones to decide whether a woman can have an abortion or not? Why is it wrong for a woman to have an abortion, while men should be totally free to ditch their parental responsibilities on a whim?

Could it be because you resent women having agency?

And the whole brainwashing thing? That’s not even an argument. As far as I’m concerned, it’s an empty statement that addresses nothing at all. It’s not like feminists are asking people to drink some Kool-Aid… I mean, swallow a pill, right?

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
5 years ago

Oh, looky here, Archwinger is getting into how unfair the world is to older men who pursue younger women. As the fourteen years junior spouse in my marriage, I can sympathize with his plight (I mean, I’ve only had like six or seven of my husband’s coworkers ask if I had any hot single friends my age or younger; clearly those dudes are oppressed). So I am sure that this will be reasoned and not at all insulting to either my husband or to me.

[W]omen are naturally turned on by and attracted to older, established, successful men. But if a man takes advantage of this — he’s wrong. He’s bad.

1.Penthouse Letters is not an academic journal.
2. If this is an evopsych thing, I laugh. In the standard manosphere version of an ancient world where women are totally dependent on men for everything, and their ability to bear children decides their social status, why would a woman want to hook up with an older dude? He’s less strong than the younger men, less potent, and more likely to predecease you and leave you scrambling for a new protector. It’s a bad survival strategy from my POV.
3. Yes, taking advantage of people does make you wrong.

It becomes politically incorrect to use your advantages to attract women. You should date somebody your own age.

I dated several people my age before I met Mr. FM. Ditto for him. In fact, when we met he was kind of iffy about pursuing something because I was so darned young. In retrospect I can see that he went to great lengths to make sure that I was safe and comfortable at all times, that I was making decisions based on what was best for me and not what he wanted, and that our sex life was about sharing, not taking. OTW, he was a good human being. Mr. FM’s not a saint, he’s got his blind spots and biases just like the rest of us, but he’s always done right by me. Somehow I think that’s not the case for a lot of age disparate relationships.

So – though I’m obviously prejudiced here – I don’t think that being with someone outside of your cohort is inherently wrong or not “PC.”. It’s only a problem if you’re a creep using your social and financial capital to gain access to vulnerable people with the intention of exploiting the hell out of them. Refusing to date people your own age is kind of a red flag for that. It says that you’re not looking at people as people, but as resources that can be tapped with the right tools.

a 35 year old man with a steady job dating a 21-year-old in college is clearly all about power and manipulation, because young women definitely aren’t attracted to good looks and social status and financial stability.

I was (and am) attracted to Mr. FM’s strength of character, the way he can puzzle out almost any situation, his generosity with his time and talents, his consideration and tenderness, the way he always looks serious and then just busts out a huge smile from nowhere, and how yummy his shoulders look in an Oxford shirt. I was almost done with an economics degree and was headed to the Army, so I could make my own damned money. And I’m not even sure what kind of transitive social status is conferred on a twenty-something woman with a partner in his thirties. Maybe there is some, and maybe it’s a plus for some people, but it never played into any reasoning of mine.

So I’ll grant Archwinger one point since he got the “looks” part right. However, I’ll also argue that if you have something going for you besides your pretty face, money, and status, people will be attracted to you for those things. Who you are is less changeable than how you look or your bank balance, and your character is what keeps people coming back for more. Chances are that you’ll use those good qualities to build a relationship (either long or short term) with another person, not as bargaining chips to attain a trophy.

OTOH, if someone is trying to reel in another person using the trappings of power, and then sees nothing wrong with using those advantages to get the other person to do their bidding – then yeah, that relationship might be built on power and manipulation. Funny how that stuff works.

AnAndrejaPejicBlog (@Lindsay_Irene)

If you can’t see that Grand Funk Railroad was a far superior band to Led Zeppelin, it’s because of the feminist brainwashing.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
5 years ago

I have no idea why my brain junked out “OTW” on the keyboard in that post. I even proofed that post first. Ugh. Should have been “IOW.”

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

feminists really do seek to remove agency from women. The whole “everything is rape” thing feminists pull is one good example but another one is how feminists complain about “slut shaming and vilify pro lifers. They want women to be able to have sex with as many men as they want without anyone criticizing them for it and without them having to deal with any kind of consequences for it like having to raise a baby.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/692/19789999.jpg

Agency just means the ability to make choices, buddy. Giving women the option to sleep with our not sleep with whoever they like and the ability to end an unwanted or dangerous pregnancy is kind of the opposite of removing agency from them. Removing agency would mean having someone other than the woman herself decide who, if anyone, she was going to sleep with and when if ever she would have kids. You know, like the patriarchy does.

Responsibility is a different word entirely. Though I would argue that choosing not to have a kid that you know you can’t provide for properly is a very responsible decision, so you’re batting zero for two here.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Oh lookie, 4th troll has returned to dispense more nonsense. How exactly is saying that women have the right to choose who they have sex with removing agency? We’re saying we do have agency and are capable of deciding what we do with our own bodies. You’re pretty confused about the meaning of the word agency if you think feminists don’t want women to have it.

Why exactly do you feel the need criticize women for their sex lives? You’re saying it’s bad for feminists to criticize men who have sex without obtaining consent, otherwise known as rape, but it’s fine for you to criticize women for having consensual sex. How does this make sense? You say it’s feminists who are trying to remove women’s agency and then in the very same post you say you and other men should decide who it’s acceptable for women to have sex with and whether or not a woman should be able to get an abortion. Again, you are making no sense. Do you even think before you post? Or are you a bot that just spits out red pill talking points?

Oh, and by the way, a baby is not a punishment. Nor should it be. That’s a really fucked up view.

the 4th survivor
the 4th survivor
5 years ago

Sorry weirwood but I’m no troll. I speak the truth. Like I said when I was here last time, just because something hurts your feelings that doesn’t make it wrong.

“You’re saying it’s bad for feminists to criticize men who have sex without obtaining consent”

Are you insane? When did I ever suggest such a thing? You feminists can’t stop twisting words around can you? Never said a baby was a punishment either but getting pregnant when you don’t feel you’re ready for it is a potential consequence and feminists want women and only women to be immune from that.

AA Wills:

“Okay, so you’re saying that if we disagree with you, we’re wrong, because brainwashing by eeebil feminists. As long as we agree with you, then we’re not brainwashed. Way to logic, man. Works to completely secure your view of the world, doesn’t it?”

Feminists do the same. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a sexist pig or if they’re a woman they have “internalized misogyny.” Pot meet kettle.

Mathieu Trembley:

“Why exactly should women be punished for having sex? Or “face consequences” as you put it? If it’s perfectly fine when men have as much sex as they want (and for the record, it is), why is it wrong when women do the same?”

You seem confused. Men who do have lots of casual sex can wind up with a kid they’re not ready for and unlike women men have no legal right to ditch their parental responsibilities. So don’t act like men don’t face any consequences for what they do.

sevenofmine
5 years ago

the 4th moron sez:

The whole “everything is rape” thing feminists pull is one good example

Feminists don’t pull an “everything is rape” thing. They pull a “sex without consent is rape” thing. Because that’s what rape is.

They want women to be able to have sex with as many men as they want without anyone criticizing them for it

What exactly makes you think you’re entitled to an opinion about how much or with whom other people have sex?

and without them having to deal with any kind of consequences for it like having to raise a baby.

Babies are punishment for having sex. Good to know. Silly us thinking babies are human beings who don’t deserve to be dragged into the world by people who don’t want them.

Also, babies are not delivered by storks. Before there is a baby to raise, there is a pregnancy to endure which, even under ideal circumstances CAN FUCKING KILL YOU.

They don’t want men to have a legal right to ditch their parental responsibilities, only women.

Remember what I said about pregnancy? You know how it’s not happening to you? That’s why you get no say. Your contribution to the state of a person being pregnant is a single orgasm. A chore, I know. The pregnant person contributes their entire body for nine months knowing that at any moment the pregnancy can suddenly become lethal. Pregnancy has literally nothing to do with you. Nothing. You have no say.

Further, what men want is the option to bail out on an already existing child, not to avoid a pregnancy. And honestly? I’m pretty sure most women wouldn’t have a problem with not asking for child support from a father on the condition that the father does, in fact relinquish all his rights as a parent. Because fuck you if you think you’re going to never contribute to the day-to-day raising of a child but still get the opportunity to be the cool guy who shows up and takes them out for pizza and a movie once a month and have a say in decisions regarding them.

And fuck you for trying to pretend that wanting the option to not endure a pregnancy is somehow a right that cis men don’t have. Have you failed to notice that you are not, in fact, in possession of a uterus?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Only people with uteri can be pregnant, so that would be why feminists focus on abortion rights for people with uteri (which FYI, can be trans men and non binary people sometimes so you’re wrong that we only care about women not being forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy).

Being forced to pay child support is not the same as being forced to give birth. In case you didn’t realize, fathers are not the only parent legally responsible for providing for their children. Mothers are expected to provide for them too. Child support does not cover the entire cost of child rearing. And child support doesn’t exist to punish men. It exists for the well being of the child.

You also haven’t explained why it’s true that sex obtained with coercion isn’t rape. By definition of coercion it is. You also haven’t explained why it’s the truth that women should be criticized for having sex. Seriously, it’s none of your business who has sex with who as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult.

sevenofmine
5 years ago

4th dumbass sez:

Feminists do the same. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you is a sexist pig or if they’re a woman they have “internalized misogyny.” Pot meet kettle.

The difference is that feminists are actually factually, demonstrably fucking correct as evidenced by reality.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Hey, anyone have any cool bands or artists they’re into right now? I feel like listening to something different.

Just list shit. I have no really preference.

Maybe this is something 4th can participate in since they seem to have a lot of time on their hands for some reason?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I’m old and behind on music, but too relatively recent things I like to listen to are IAMX and Amy Lavere. Two very different sounds.

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

I’m also behind on music. Was listening to Siouxsie Sioux and the banshees earlier. And I listen to Emilie Autumn often enough, but she’s already been linked in the comments somewhere recently.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

I’m a big fan of Haggard, which is orchestral metal and a bit of an… Aquired taste. Van Canto is another neat metal band, with less growling and more fantastic use of a capella.

On the non metal side of things, Alan Doyle’s new album is a lovely peppy thing, and I’m very much looking forward to the new album by Of Monsters and Men.

gilshalos
5 years ago

Try Anaria’s version of I see Fire (Lousy video of live steel but it was their first attempt), and Luna Redd if you want to try female vocalists.
OK, I was at Uni with Luna Redd’s bass player.
Mainly I listen to Iron Maiden which is old school even though they are still making albums.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

IAMX is alright. And I am well aware of Siouxsie Sioux and Emilie Autumn.

Amy LaVere, however? No thank you. Tried to listen to three of her songs and just couldn’t get into it.

Since I’m asking for bands, I’ll give you some that I happen to like a bit, too. Seems fair.

(Wrote this list before Capatala and gilshalos commented, so…)

If you happen to like The Misfits or The Cramps, you might like The Spookshow. Horrorpunk/gothabilly and all that. Pretty fun and great to headbang or pogo to. Groovie Ghoulies, too, but more garage.

Cruxshadows is like Depeche Mode read too much Anne Rice and wore ankhs. Speaking of Anne Rice, Theatres Des Vampires has a large variety of style that’s vampire related if you’re interested.

Scary Bitches are like Siouxsie, but the singer’s style kinda reminds me of Devo’s “Beautiful World”, if that’s understandable?

American Werewolves are a werewolf punk band, sound kinda like the Dead Kennedys.

Schaffer the Darklord and MC Frontalot if you like rap and geeky stuff. Schaffer is a little less geeky stuff.

Otep is a lot like Skinny Puppy but more metal than industrial.

Do you like metal and pirates? Alestorm is a pirate metal band. And I just made your day better for telling you about them (if you haven’t already heard of them).

bekabot
5 years ago

In a few years, you’ll probably see them push for expanding the definition of statutory rape to include an age difference of more than a certain amount (because a 35 year old man with a steady job dating a 21-year-old in college is clearly all about power and manipulation, because young women definitely aren’t attracted to good looks and social status and financial stability.)

1. I don’t object all that strongly to a 35-year-old man’s dating a 21-year-old college student. It’s an arrangement which isn’t going to last, at least the odds are way against it, but then this is a world in which many arrangements of that type prevail. C’est la guerre.

2. OTOH I don’t exactly approve of a 35-year-old man’s dating a 21-year-old college student. I regard that pairing as mildly creepy, and so would many other people. Were I to spot the 35-year-old squiring his 21-year-old down Ye Olde College Lane during a pub crawl, my eyebrows would lift, and so would those of many other people. But I wouldn’t get in their space or give them the stink-eye, nor would, so I imagine, very many other people. Most people have enough problems of their own that they don’t want to be introduced to those of strangers. If what you want is to be tolerated, keep that in mind, and stop worrying about the statutory rape laws. If you’re white and male and don’t act like a jerk, the law is not interested in impounding you unless you do something so egregious that the law can’t help but notice it. (None of this has anything whatsoever to do with feminists; which is the key to its mystery.)

3. I don’t object all that strongly to a 35-year-old man’s dating a 21-year-old college student, but I do start to object when I find out that he’s dating her because he sees her as a stepping-stone to her 13-year-old niece. That’s a no-no in my book. That’s over the line.

4. Last of all — 21-year-old college women, IME, are attracted to good looks, but they aren’t as attracted to social status and financial security as they may later become, because they’ve just launched out and are still optimistic about their chances to make it on their own. They’re too inexperienced to prize money highly. That’s why simply waving a big wad of bills under their noses doesn’t always provoke the Pavlovian reaction evo-psychers expect. (Once again, nothing to do with feminists or feminism, and once again, that’s the point.)

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

Alestorm is a fun band; I actually got introduced to them on the comments of this site, but a year or so back.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@Catalpa

Totally didn’t know that. I know people have talked about Scarling. and Emilie and shit, but I wasn’t around and haven’t read that far back.

I found out about them when I decided to make a playlist pirate themed.

It’s really hard to make a pirate themed playlist. It’s just Alestorm and old guys covering sea shanties. My vampire playlist has over 200 songs though.

gilshalos
5 years ago

The best GM I played with in V:tM had a wide range of music.
NIN – Something I could Never Have for nightclubs,
Holst’s Mars for Tremere Chantries/havens.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

@pandapool

Haha, no worries, it would be ridiculous to expect anyone to remember all the comments that have been made on this site,especially that far back.

Pirates are a hard theme to find music for, sadly. Adrian von Zeigler has Carpe Diem, which is very nicely reminiscent of the PotC soundtrack. Voltaire has a couple seafaringish songs on the To The Bottom Of The Sea album, but they’re not super pirate themed, particularly. French perfume by great big sea is a smuggler song…

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@Catalpa

Yeah. It’s weird because I found more artists for my serial killer themed playlist than pirate themed one. I mean, THAT’S weird, right?

Um, you see, I noticed a lot of metal bands have wrote songs about Elizabeth Bathory and Jack the Ripper and I was curious how far that went.

Did you know Blind Melon has a song about Ed Gein? It’s really catchy. John Wayne Gacy is also a favorite subject, then Ted Bundy. I only found two songs about women serial killers though.

maghavan
maghavan
5 years ago

I’m really surprised that no one has linked to this yet.

It’s the implication ….

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@gilashalos

Yaaaaaaaay! I love it when people enable my weird hobbies!

A.A. Wils
5 years ago

@maghavan

That scene of It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia! That’s just about their (Red Pillians) speed, isn’t it? I wonder if the writers did some investigation into some RoK or reddit posts. Seems to uncannily, eerily come straight from the playbook.

gilshalos
5 years ago

That song always reminds me of Sandman – The Doll’s House.

maghavan
maghavan
5 years ago

@AA Wils

I wonder if the writers did some investigation into some RoK or reddit posts. Seems to uncannily, eerily come straight from the playbook

I’m pretty sure they are familiar with this general line of thought and are doing this deliberately. I don’t think it was always such but I think they became aware of it and figured that it was a perfect match for a guy like Dennis and so used him as a vehicle for mocking it.

The D.E.N.N.I.S. System is pretty clearly modeled on the PUA nonsense … in my opinion.

Scildfreja
Scildfreja
5 years ago

I’ve greatly enjoyed the newest Daft Punk album, “Random Access Memories”.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@gilshalos

The serial killer convention, right? XP

@maghavan

I bet many a PUA and MRA don’t understand that Sunny if about horrible people getting their comeuppance, which is why nothing ever goes their way. I think it goes right over their head.

gilshalos
5 years ago

@Pandapool Of course!

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

Fun fact: Most of the angst white guy songs teenagers like so much work will for a werewolf playlist. Skillet’s “Monster”, Linkin Park’s “Papercut”, Disturbed’s “Down with the Sickness”–and it’s hilarious.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

“Animal I Have Become” by 3 Days Grace, how did I forget yoooou?

contrapangloss
5 years ago

BananaPandapool:

I’m just going to shamefacedly admit that I really like Hootie and the Blowfish, even though most of their songs are really… kind of sad.

Whether or not they’re relevant to a werewolf playlist is a different story.

Mostly… I kinda just wanted to type Bananapandapool, because reasons.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@Contrapangloss

I also want to type BananaPandapool. You can call me that if you want. It’s awesome. Perfect name for a panda mercenary.

http://i.imgur.com/tagyYCs.jpg

Usually when I hear those teen angst song it reminds me I haven’t seen Ginger Snaps in a while, so that’s why I brought them up.

I’ve heard some Hootie songs. Not really a fan. I don’t know why. I think it’s because they sound kinda like country and I do not like country? IDK. They also sound like Pearl Jam and I do not like Pearl Jam. It’s, like, the acoustic guitar and the way they sing. It just doesn’t hit my ear right.