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“A woman stoned to death is a woman held to adult standards that feminists now reject,” one MGTOW explains.

A woman protests stoning at a demonstration in Berlin
A woman protests stoning at a demonstration in Berlin

In the midst of a mostly dull disquisition on the evils of marriage, filled with odd jargon he’s made up himself, A Voice for Men’s erstwhile cooking columnist 

sexual fidelity (especially in women, to protect fatherhood), durability (to protect women and motherhood), and presumptive consent to sex (to maximize fertility and protect both father/mother from spurious rape allegations).

To put it in less euphemistic terms than Løvenskiolds: both partners agree not to cheat (but men do it with their fingers crossed); there’s little or no divorce; and marital rape isn’t regarded as rape. Which is, I suppose, one way to reduce “spurious rape allegations,” though it makes roughly as much sense as legalizing marital murder to protect married murderers from “spurious murder allegations.”

But that’s not the bit I wanted to tell you about. That was just some background so you could better understand the context in which Løvenskiolds makes his bizarre and revealing little comment. It comes at the end of this paragraph on the disintegration of traditional “andomarriage.” I’ve put it in bold.

With the rise of gynocentrism and leisure culture, the harsh penalties for violating the andromarriage laws began to erode – as our preferences for expanding the purview of women increased we became less willing to hold women to any standards or responsibilities. We now see women as lifelong children: too weak, frail, stupid and mercurial to be trusted with adult responsibility when it comes to adhering to the strict requirements of an andromarriage contract. Western countries now look on places that stone adulterers as barbaric even though we were killing them ourselves not that long ago. A woman stoned to death is a woman held to adult standards that feminists now reject.

Did he just say that “[a] woman stoned to death [for adultery] is a woman held to adult standards that feminists now reject?” Yes, yes he did.

Løvenskiolds also has some, well, interesting Evo Psychy thoughts on domestic violence. You might have to read these next bits a couple of times before it makes any sense at all. I’ve bolded some of the more striking bits.

Strong men were better at fulfilling the obligations of being fathers and women who chose those strong men left more progeny, so men became bigger and stronger over time as their genes spread. This is why women hitting men is still seen as less serious than the reverse: she is testing his strength and endurance in the face of pain to gauge his ongoing suitability as a mating prospect. A man who hits a woman – even defensively hitting her back – is displaying a weak intolerance for self-control in the face of pain and society reviles him regardless of the viciousness of the provocation unless he takes on an impressive amount of damage first.

Men who selected women based on markers for fertility – youth, breasts, hips and swayback –  also were more successful at reproduction. To the dismay of modern feminists, these mate selection preferences still dominate human coupling: women still swoon for strong, successful men and men still have standards for women’s attractiveness. Weirdly, feminists still rigorously enforce the unequal violence standards that disadvantage weak men while they oppose beauty standards that equally disadvantage ugly women.

As far as I can figure it out, he’s suggesting that “unequal violence standards … disadvantage weak men” because weak men have less self-control and are more likely to hit women.

In other words, he seems to be miffed that women might prefer big burly men who don’t hit women to “weak men” who do. And he seems to think that women not wanting to date men who beat them is somehow akin to dudes putting “no fatties” in their personal ads.

Wow. Even after five years of doing this blog, I’m still surprised at the perverse ingenuity of MRA misogyny.

Løvenskiolds claims to be a Man Going His Own Way. I suggest he continue Going His Own Way, as far away from the rest of us as possible.

 

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rennydiokno2015
5 years ago

Reblogged this on rennydiokno.com.

Margaux Wilder
5 years ago

Reblogged this on Margaux Wilder and commented:
It’s astonishing.

Judas Peckerwood
Judas Peckerwood
5 years ago

Words fail.

PussyPowerTantrum, the Lousy Flouncer
PussyPowerTantrum, the Lousy Flouncer
5 years ago

I wonder if he’d say the same of men killed or mutilated for abusing their wives. In fact, the incidents of mariticide (husband-killing) fell more steeply than uxoricide (wife-killing) after the advent of the modern age, though the number both declined since the good old days when “until death do us part” was the only way out. So arguably it’s husbands who are disproportionately evading the consequences of their actions.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Since the available evidence suggests that most paleolithic people lived communally, wouldn’t a man (or woman) who can communicate and cooperate be most desirable? The thing just annoys me so much about evo psych is how it’s theories suppose current family structures are the same as they’ve always been. This tool shed just needs to admit he likes the idea of women being beaten and raped because he hates us and stop trying to intellectualize his bullshit.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

So, let’s see. This guy can’t cook chicken (worth eating, anyway), and he also has strange notions of what “adult standards” are.

It’s not hard to see why he’s Forever Alone (but calling it MGTOW, because lemons are sweet when one convinces oneself that they are.)

Miss Diketon
Miss Diketon
5 years ago

What on earth is the matter with these people?

steampunked (@steampunked)

PussyPowerTantrum, you remind me of coming across a very old Irish family of the sort who had children very young, and therefore had quite a few generations under the one roof.

The great (great) grandmother had passed down a few fascinating things, including a pennyroyal recipe for inducing abortion (dangerous, interesting), and also the description of how a man only had to hit his wife a few times before ‘grandma’ or ‘auntie’ would make him a ‘special tea’.

After that, the women in the family would club together to talk about the poor, dead, departed man and how you simply couldn’t tell when such a thing might spread.

The men were never told about either recipe, though apparently the brothers were expected to get to the husband before grandma did if things got bad fast.

tealily
tealily
5 years ago

I think he meant “weak” men are disadvantaged because they supposedly can’t defend themselves and beat a woman up. But like all manosphere evo-psych blathering, it’s not based in fact. Men do not have to be tall or even very muscular in order to have more upper body strength than most women. Who are supposedly all these weak men? Anyone know of any? I don’t.

And they can take their ridiculous excuses about why they’re so shallow about women’s attractiveness and attributing it to fertility and stick it where the sun don’t shine. For all the men that spend most of their lives trying to avoid getting a woman pregnant or running from it if they do, these ridiculous theories of theirs are more tedious by the day.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago
Bakunin
Bakunin
5 years ago

Women’s Ideal Body Types Throughout History: http://youtu.be/Xrp0zJZu0a4

Yes, boobs, hips and swayback have always been desired, especially during whatever time period ‘traditional marriage’ existed in. Not sure when that was, it definitely wasn’t ancient times in the Mediterranean area, too much polygamy and what not. Couldn’t have been during the Norse heyday, women actually did stuff and men were expected to settle down after viking for a while. Certainly wasn’t medieval Europe, boobs weren’t in fashion. 16th century? Nope, mistresses and lovers were kind of the norm. Hmm, must go read history books, when was ‘andomarriage’ a thing?

Anon
Anon
5 years ago

To be fair, I’m pretty sure that what he actually means by “the unequal violence standards” is the idea that a woman beating a man is less serious than a man beating a woman. In fact, that interpretation just leaps out of the text.

However, I don’t know where he got the idea that feminists are in favour of domestic violence against men….

Olive O'Sudden
Olive O'Sudden
5 years ago

So, men ‘have standards’ and women ‘swoon’? Oiy. And think he’s confusing ‘barbaric’ for ‘adult’ when he talks about the expectations for women to be sexually exclusive in marriage, and punishing women for a brand of adultery that usually includes being raped by someone other than her husband.

Mr. Futrelle: Please clarify, so that I don’t have to check the website myself, is it ‘andomarriage’ or ‘andromarriage’? The first appears throughout your commentary, the latter in the quotes from the frozen chicken breast scorcher. (I’m thinking it’s the latter, cause that would mean ‘male marriage’.)

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

Løvenskiolds is one of the ten announced speakers appearing at the second AVfM conference, so AVfM superfans will have to spend at least $40 for a chance to listen to this crank pretend to be a Sociologist for an hour. (Cost does not include meals.)

brokensea
5 years ago

Maybe 100,000 years ago there was a biological necessity to gender roles. Women stayed home and raised the children, men went out and (hunted mammoth etc). Evolution is not only physiological. We live in a society where due to the modern conveniences women and men can pretty much do what they want with their time. Either one (or both) can work, raise kids, and pursue activities that interest them.
What offends me most about the MRA types is that they are not only making absurd demands on 50% of the population, they are also trying to devolve us as a species.

Quantuminc
Quantuminc
5 years ago

Technically he is correct, but he neglects to mention WHY feminists reject that crazy standard, and he misses the fact that feminists extend the new standard to both genders. That is, ideally you should discuss the parameters of your relationship regularly, and if you both agree that “adultery” is a-okay, then it is a-okay. Feminists reject the sexual standards of a century ago, water is wet, etc.

“he is testing his strength and endurance in the face of pain to gauge his ongoing suitability as a mating prospect”

The more I think about it the weirder this sounds. So, not only do women prefer big tough men, but they have a natural instinct to hit the guy just to see if he can take it. So not only can he not account for women who prefer men who are less physically tough, but he doesn’t even consider relationships where the woman never feels to need to slap the guy. Does this mean all of his relationships, or the couples he has known in his life are ones where the woman constantly feels the need to slap the guy? Gee, I wonder why that is.

The idea that a bigger male makes for a better father or provider is also wrong. If that principle applied women would get bigger and stronger just the same. Ultimately evolution strikes a balance between size, strength, and the need for food.

When biologists explain why males are bigger and stronger they point towards physical competition. Typically they say that the female chooses the winner, but it occurs to me that if a particular male literally chases away all of the others, which is often the case, the females are left with little choice. Yes, it is possible for a male to use the threat of force to improve his mating chances. If a female feels attracted to the biggest male, then that is because there is an advantage to accepting the status quo.

brokensea
5 years ago
Reply to  Quantuminc

And biologically speaking there are many examples of females mating with many males (humans do it too) to ensure fertilisation. The theory of male penis shape being to push out rival semen suggests that procreation has nothing to do with social niceties and everything to do with avoiding genetic extinction.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

The openly expressed yearnings for death in general and stoning in particular as an appropriate way to control rebellious, promiscuous women are not at all rare in the manuresphere. Suffice to read comments on, say, Dalrock, the “loving” Christian husband and father’s blog (if anyone has the stomach for it), to find plenty of them.

And the more circumspect advocates of the idea do not openly share their sick desire, but “just” wish for the good ol’ days when a husband could properly “correct” his wife when needed, without all that nasty interference from the “gynocratic” law enforcement.

wordsp1nner
5 years ago

Andromarriage? Well, at least he’s admitting traditional marriage is a shitty deal for women–even if the costs and benefits were equal (they aren’t) the enforcement mechanisms sure as hell aren’t. Man strays? Obviously his wife’s fault, if it is a problem, which is isn’t. Woman strays? Kill her.

Under patriarchy, men have the rights and women have the responsibilities.

Okay, I think we all need this:

https://youtu.be/SIatWYZgOKI

This is pretty much why I don’t try to do yoga or pilates in my apartment, only add nearly rolling onto Jade.

goodrumo
5 years ago

Reblogged this on iheariseeilearn.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

Dear Mr Løvenskiolds,

It appears that you have a very specific type of relationship in mind: one in which you’re allowed to hit your partner but she can’t hit you back, in which you’re allowed to cheat but she isn’t, in which you get to choose when and how sex happens without her input, and in which you’re permitted to use physical means to punish her for her disobedience. I understand why you would want a relationship like that. Hell, I’ve had a relationship like that before and thoroughly enjoyed it. The difference is that mine was a consensual BDSM relationship in which all of the above were discussed extensively, were subject to safe words and were something my partner got off on. I don’t try to impose my kinks on anyone else or suggest that they’re a template that all of society has to follow. I accept that what was right for us isn’t right for everybody else, and I certainly didn’t take it as far as ending anyone’s life as part of it. That’s a pretty messed up kink you have there.

Also, I can cook. So there’s another difference between you and me.

Best regards,
– EJ

PS: Fuck you.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

So…um…does he know that according to the bible, men who commit adultery are also supposed to be stoned to death? Does he know that the Chinese used to castrate and emasculate men for adultery? Does the fact that we don’t do these things anymore mean that we’ve also stopped holding men to adult standards? Inquiring monds wan to know.

Nameless Wonder
Nameless Wonder
5 years ago

MRAs and other organized male supremacists claim that feminists are misandrists if they talk about violence that men have perpetrated on women historically and presently. And yet here they are, talking about stoning women to death. Doesn’t that prove the feminists right that misogyny is a systematic and sadistic human rights violation that is perpetrated by men who view women and girls as property? Thus feminism is right and progressive and necessary in politics. Thanks MRAs!

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
5 years ago

You know, thinking about it, I take the above back. This doesn’t sound to me like a guy generalising his kinks to the world. This sounds like Bitter Ex Boyfriend, that most dulcet of sounds. She’s moved on from him (possibly because he abused her, possibly because he’s just a whiny asshole) and he’s all torn up by seeing her happy with someone else. So far, so fair. It happens. Breakups are never fun.

But jesus christ, Mr Løvenskiolds, do you understand that relationships end as part of their very nature? Fantasising about living in a society in which you can kill her instead of break up with her, so you wouldn’t have to see her be happy without you, is deeply messed up.

There’s also the ugly confused bit where he’s claiming that she should understand and agree that he has the right to cheat and the right to hit her. If my hypothesis is correct and this is about a breakup, then this is something really worrying. I hope she’s okay, whomever she is.

Leisha Young
Leisha Young
5 years ago

wordsp1inner…there were cats in that video? Nya! Nya! Nya!

chaltab
chaltab
5 years ago

Sometimes I think these people are just some bizarre asshole performance art troupe who want to see just how vile and misogynistic they can get without actually committing a crime.

Dvärghundspossen
5 years ago

one in which you’re allowed to hit your partner but she can’t hit you back, in which you’re allowed to cheat but she isn’t, in which you get to choose when and how sex happens without her input, and in which you’re permitted to use physical means to punish her for her disobedience.

No, not all of that. Women are supposed to be allowed to hit men without men hitting them back (unless there is extreme violence from the woman), because women need to test men’s strength in order to see whether they have good genes. That was pretty clear from his fucked-up post. And the flipside of this is somehow that men are allowed to only date hot women. But men are supposed to be allowed to cheat without getting stoned to death, like women adulterers are supposed to be. So, small comfort that a woman is allowed to, like, give a man a slap on the cheek in order to “strength-test” him.

th1stle
th1stle
5 years ago

You are NOT a MGTOW if you can’t STFU about women!

It seems like they’re always “going their own way” eventually — y’know, like after they’ve apologetically spewed buckets of misogynist vomit all over the floor. Reminds me of drunken house-party guests that you keep trying to push out the door so that you can go to bed, but they insist on another beer, with a side of telling you about why their life sucks (Hint: It’s everyone else’s fault but their own.)

cassiopeia
cassiopeia
5 years ago

@ brokensea

They are the kind of people who would choose for everyone to be worse off, as long as others are more worse off than they themselves are.

I often see hints of “divide and conquer” in gender oppression. It seems entirely plausible that the powered elite have historically been happy to let women be owned, raped, beaten, neglected and killed because disenfranchised young men are the cause of trouble and unrest everywhere, and they can sometimes be pacified by giving them a domestic slave to abuse and display as a status symbol.

That’s what the MRAs are asking for, too. They don’t blame social ills or their own misery on anomie, adapting to constant cultural and societal shifts, economic inequality, or any other actual reason decades of research have shown to play a part in making societies less happy. No, it’s that women are getting rights. In their spinelessness they’d be happy to hand all power to the economic elite and let everything go to shit, as long as they get to be the big mean pike in their own tiny pond.

That’s really pathetic and really petty.

shighhopes
shighhopes
5 years ago

Despite having lots of libertarian/objectivist type dudes and ultra-individualistic anti-social self-procalimed “”””alphas””” in their midst, manosphereans seem to be really obsessed with social order and “civilization” (and not just the proudly traditionalist, dark-enlightenened asshats). It’s really quite bizarre, one could see it as an example of shoehorn theory in action…

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
5 years ago

We now see women as lifelong children: too weak, frail, stupid and mercurial to be trusted with adult responsibility when it comes to adhering to the strict requirements of an andromarriage contract.

So different from how we used to see women as lifelong children, too weak, frail, stupid, and mercurial to be trusted with adult responsibility outside of matrimony. Corveture was so liberating, doncha know.

Men who selected women based on markers for fertility – youth, breasts, hips and swayback – also were more successful at reproduction.

My swayback brings all the boys to the yard.

This is why women hitting men is still seen as less serious than the reverse: she is testing his strength and endurance in the face of pain to gauge his ongoing suitability as a mating prospect.
Is that just me, or did McLovin just excuse domestic violence against men? Don’t worry fellas, she’s not abusing you, she’s just testing your strength!

Disgusting. There are a minuscule number of situations where hitting someone is acceptable, but just clocking your nonconsenting SO as a test ain’t one of them.

Weirdly, feminists still rigorously enforce the unequal violence standards that disadvantage weak men while they oppose beauty standards that equally disadvantage ugly women.

Oh, he wasn’t excusing the violence on men, he was just using it as some kind of a bargaining chip/”checkmate, feminazis” talking point. Women can hit men, but men can’t hit women, but men should be able to hit women if feminists want those guys to have to date uggos. Or men should not hit women and ugly women should just evaporate. Becuz traditional marriage!

Or something like that. Who knows what goes on in the mind of somebody who bases his diet around desiccated chicken and Jell-O.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
5 years ago

Blockquote Mammoth must have been only slightly hungry today, since he only snacked on one of my offering. The middle section should look like this:

This is why women hitting men is still seen as less serious than the reverse: she is testing his strength and endurance in the face of pain to gauge his ongoing suitability as a mating prospect.

Is that just me, or did McLovin just excuse domestic violence against men? Don’t worry fellas, she’s not abusing you, she’s just testing your strength!

Disgusting. There are a minuscule number of situations where hitting someone is acceptable, but just clocking your nonconsenting SO as a test ain’t one of them.

Unique Fucking Snowflake

Ok. Im not the nicest or most caring guy out there. But WTF is wrong with people. How can people say this shit with a straight face. This is shaping up to be a shitty day on the web.

A.A. Wils
5 years ago

Sooo…Lovenskolds is *in favor* of women hitting their husbands? But, but…aren’t these guys opposed to that? Don’t they whine that there is some sort of uneven enforcement of domestic violence: men who hit get in trouble, women who hit don’t? I’m just so confused.

As for the being in favor of stoning women to death: I just…can’t…even…

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Isn’t swayback a health problem, otherwise known as hyperlordosis?

ikanreed
ikanreed
5 years ago

They have reached the “free to murder” level of entitlement.

magnesium
magnesium
5 years ago

I know this is kind of nitpicky in the face of his advocating stoning, but the whole breasts represent fertility myth needs to die. I mean, yes adult women tend to have breasts where children do not, but you can say the same thing about leg hair.

Humans are unusual in that we display engorged breasts all the time, unlike most mammals, including many of our primate cousins, who only have engorged breasts while breastfeeding. If our ancient ancestors were anything like those other primates, then the same would have been true for them. When most mammals, including humans, are breastfeeding, they actually experience temporary infertility: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactational_amenorrhea

So there’s a good chance breasts in early humans represented a woman who could not reproduce for several months, and if a man was only interested in mating with fertile females he would have avoided her. And yet we evolved to have permanent boobs somehow. It’s almost like there’s more to early human reproductive strategy than just men spreading their genes to their favourite swimsuit model cave ladies.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Or is Lovenskolds basically trying to say “I like big butts and I cannot lie”? (Even though the shape of the spine is unrelated to the size of the butt).

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Ooops that was meant to be a follow on from my comment above.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

They have reached the “free to murder” level of entitlement.

Some of them have been there for a while now. :/

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Andomarriage, andomarriage
It’s an institute you should disparage
This I tell you dudebro,
It’s way more vile than your “food show”

sexual fidelity (especially in women, to protect fatherhood), durability (to protect women and motherhood), and presumptive consent to sex (to maximize fertility and protect both father/mother from spurious rape allegations).

Yeahhh, that sounds like a fair contract. Sloppily worded (“maximize fertility”? I think he means “maximize chances for conception”. Not the same thing at all), higher burdens and expectations on the wife, convenient truck-sized loopholes for the husband. Even the term “andomarriage” gives it away. It’s an arrangement for the sole benefit of the man.

I also love how not wanting to be stoned to death at the whim of a jealous husband is “rejecting adult standards”. How childish of feminists to prefer autonomy to the short end of the stick. Real grownups leap at the chance for a lifetime of misery and servitude, with the threat of a horrible death constantly hanging over them.

Mari
Mari
5 years ago

@steampunked, My Irish-Italian relatives handled abusive husbands by having the menfolk beat up the offender. Far from a good solution, but considering the menfolk in question, who included professional boxers, it was certainly effective. Some of the abusers simply disappeared, although I think they fled. I never heard of anyone actually bumping someone off, although there was that case with my aunt’s husband…

Divorce and domestic violence prosecutions are much easier on all participants.

Holytape
5 years ago

I was expecting Løvenskiolds’ article to end with, “And I call it the Aristocrats.” But it didn’t. So I am now very sad for humanity.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Wow, an italics mammoth. You don’t see that every day.

Miss Diketon
Miss Diketon
5 years ago

It’s almost like there’s more to early human reproductive strategy than just men spreading their genes to their favourite swimsuit model cave ladies.

I love this.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Is that just me, or did McLovin just excuse domestic violence against men? Don’t worry fellas, she’s not abusing you, she’s just testing your strength!

Yeah, he totally did. More of that Compassion For Men And Boys™ in action!

Andomarriage, andomarriage
It’s an institute you should disparage
This I tell you dudebro,
It’s way more vile than your “food show”

And that was pretty vile. Rubber chicken, anyone?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I really don’t see how violence in men is an evolutionary advantage. If violence against women wasn’t a common thing, we would have sex with them more, thus more chances for reproduction. But since we have to be careful about who we’re alone with, there are lots of missed copulation opportunities around the world every day. The evo psych belief that strong (read violent and aggressive) men protect fatherhood and the evo psych belief that men need to spread their seed therefore rape is okay, are incompatible aren’t they?

I haven’t had any coffee yet so I don’t know if I’m making sense.

Shalimar
Shalimar
5 years ago

I have known a number of men who actually were going their own way, single without any interest in dating. They spent their time with their interests. You meet quite a few of them when you love games and reading.

Those who self-identify as MGTOW and join the online groups don’t seem to include many of that type. MGTOWs are mostly divorced perfectionists who refuse to accept the possibility that they might have made mistakes. They are “going their own way” because no woman is good enough for them, which they will explain to you in excruciating detail at every opportunity.

They would, however, love to find the one woman on earth who is submissive enough to always tell them how perfect they are. Please be that woman, you ignorant slut.

Drooling Fan Girl
Drooling Fan Girl
5 years ago

“A woman stoned to death is a woman held to adult standards that feminists now reject,” because stoning people to death is WRONG, jackass!

Ok, I feel better now.

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