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To one Men’s Rights Activist, “lying” about MRAs boycotting Mad Max: Fury Road is worse than denying the Holocaust

Dean Esmay, outraged again
Dean Esmay, outraged again

Uh oh! Dean Esmay of A Voice for Men is outraged by the latest terrible calumny besmirching the good name of the Men’s Rights movement. That Big Lie? That Men’s Rights Activists are boycotting Mad Max: Fury Road.

As Esmay puts it, in his characteristically overheated prose, the very notion that there is such a boycott

is a completely fabricated story by a handful of elitists abusing their power in the media–and betraying their fellow journalists while doing it.

Using his powerful internet detective skills, Esmay has managed to track down “the source of the lie,” which, as he sees it, “appears to have originated from a discredited hate-blogger named David Futrelle … .”

I’ve left off the rest of his sentence, as it is straight-up libel. Well, so is the bit about me being a “discredited hate-blogger,” and the part about the “lie” originating with me. I will give him credit for managing to spell my name correctly.

I’ll cop to the fact that my post on a would-be boycott of Mad Max: Fury Road set off an avalanche of articles on the subject. The Mary Sue, I believe, was the first to pick up the story, and was quickly followed by a few others. And then other writers piggybacked off of them. For better or worse, that’s how it works in online journalism these days.

But if Esmay is looking for the source of the incorrect notion that self-described Men’s Rights activists were behind the “boycott,” well, he’s not going to find it in my post, which contained no mention of Men’s Right Activists at all.

Yep, I reported the 100% true fact that a Youtube bloviater named Aaron Clarey had written a post on Return of Kings urging men, in his words, to “not only REFUSE to see the movie, but spread the word to as many men as possible.” I described his readers on Return of Kings as misogynists, not MRAs, though clearly there is a massive overlap between those two groups.

The idea that this was specifically a Men’s Rights crusade was, to be sure, a bit of sloppiness on the part of the journalists writing about it, who are not quite as familiar as some of us are with all the different varieties of woman-hating shitheads there are in the “manosphere” — especially since their belief systems overlap considerably. As I noted in a previous post on this subject, writing about Esmay’s accusations against a writer for the Huffington Post,

It’s true that the HuffPo writer, in the original version of her piece, wrongly described the MRA-adjacent Return of Kings — which has urged a boymancott of Mad Max Fury Road —  as a Men’s Rights site proper. There are in fact some differences between ROK and AVFM. For example, while AVFM writers have declared women to be “obnoxious cunts,” who control men with their vaginas, ROK writers have suggested that women are actually depraved, disloyal sheep.

You can almost forgive journalists for getting a bit mixed up.

Meanwhile, it’s clear that some MRAs, including some associated with AVFM, have views on the movie that bear a striking similarity to those of Mr. Clarey and his comrades at ROK. It was an AVFM staffer, not Aaron Clarey, who posted this meme on AVFM’s Facebook page. (It’s since been removed, possibly because it contradicts the narrative that Esmay is now promoting.)

From AVFM's Facebook page
From AVFM’s Facebook page

And if you want many other example of MRAs saying they won’t go to see the film because feminism, you’ll find more than a few in this thread on the Men’s Rights subreddit. Oh, and in this thread (archived here) on … the official AVFM Forum.

Yes, that’s right: there are MRAs talking about boycotting Mad Max: Fury Road on AVFM’s own official forum. One declares himself “a (former) Mad Max fan,” another writes “going to skip this one. Mad Max is now dead to me.” “I’m out,” adds a third.

But Esmay seems to think that there is some vast conspiracy afoot, writing that

we are really serious with this question: was anyone paid to put this fake story in the press? If so, who was paid and who did the paying?

Don’t be silly. No money changes hands. At least no human money. We do it under direct orders from our feline overlordsladies.

But as long as we’re asking questions I have one for Mr. Esmay: Are you ever going to do anything about the Holocaust denier and Hitler fan you’ve published many times on AVFM?

Apparently, to Dean Esmay at least, posting that Mad Max: Fury Road is being boycotted by MRAs, when most of the boycotters are in fact merely MRA-adjacent, is a greater crime against truth than denying the Holocaust.

 

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Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
9 years ago

How can they possibly argue that it’s not realistic that men would keep groups of women as property? It’s happening right now, today, all across the world.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
9 years ago

“the source of the lie,” which, as he sees it, “appears to have originated from a discredited hate-blogger named David Futrelle … .”

I first read that as “discerning hate-blogger” and thought “Of course David is discerning, he only posts the best bullshit from around the manosphere.” Then I saw it requoted again in the comments and had to correct myself. Should have know that Dean Esmay wouldn’t appreciate David’s careful selection process.

Also, why is there not a “Feminist Moray” tee-shirt out there somewhere? Because I would totally buy a few in different colors (including pink).

A. A. Wils, I’m sure the free market will sort that out in good time. Until then, M. (now gloriously known as Scented Fucking Hard Chairs) gave us a magnificent picture of a moray in a t-shirt.

And welcome to you and Nameless Wonder!

@brooked “Can a funny MRA show up for once?”

Such a creature would have to exist first. So far I’ve only seen them manage to be funny unintentionally.

Ain’t that the truth, Spindrift. I actually thought that Chateau Heartiste was a parody the first time I read it. Between the overwrought banner design, the “Find Out Your SMV!” quiz, and that post where Roissy used MS Paint to show how fat women had ruined dating and driven men to develop Game in self defense I was truly ROFL-ing. It had to be a joke, how could anybody post that seriously!

Then I found all the racist, homophobic bullshit and realized that the misogyny wasn’t a joke, either. Live and learn.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

Sooooo…in the glorious wonderland that is the AVFM Facebook page, they’ve posted a meme which basically suggests that only male Jews were imprisoned in camps during WW2, and used this “fact” as “proof” of historical oppression against men. I think. I’ve no real idea because the following part makes zero sense.

Possibly their stupidest meme yet.

https://www.facebook.com/102001393188684/photos/a.392418540813633.89052.102001393188684/821364421252374/?type=1&theater

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

Oh wait, I get it. They’re trying to say that good men are gone because the Nazi’s only killed male Jews. Right.

I give this attempt at history an F grade. Nil points.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

There should be no apostrophe in Nazis. Says a Grammar Nazi.

proxieme
proxieme
9 years ago

^ I think they’re trying (and, as usual, failing) to say that men are no longer “good” (as defined by society) because of systemic gender-based discrimination…against men.

I wonder when they’ll figure out that slapping words on a non-sequitur picture and calling it a day does not a meme make.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

I’m slightly impressed that AVFM is admitting that the Holocaust actually happened, even if it’s in the most head-asplodingly nonsensical way possible.

Lady Mondegreen
Lady Mondegreen
9 years ago

Wow. That meme sunnysombrera posted.

Sure, the ostensible point is incoherent as usual,* but the motivation for the meme is transparent. David embarrassed them by pointing out that they have a Holocaust denier writing for them, so they post a meme featuring an image from the Holocaust. That’ll show us, I guess.

* I mean, they don’t really believe that Holocaust victims were all male, or that Nazi anti-semitism had anything to do with gender–do they? Lord knows their grasp of history is shite, but–well, maybe they do believe that. If it suits their narrative, they’ll believe it.

EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

From the picture I couldn’t actually tell that it had anything to do with the Holocaust. It just looks like a bunch of dishevelled industrial workers standing around in hats, like some sort of steampunk grunge concert. As such it didn’t even succeed at being offensive; it was just sort of puzzling. Are they suggesting that all the good men are working down the coal mine or something?

Still, at least this is an AVFM propaganda image that doesn’t have anything to do with femdom pornography. Which is at least a step forward.

EJ (The Other One)
9 years ago

@Lea:
That’s an interesting theory and a good explanation of it. It definitely matches my experience of going into movement atheism. I didn’t have the same experience of leaving it as you – I still own my Hitchens books and still think Rebecca Watson and Greta Christina are amazing – but the moment of conversion is exactly as you describe it. I can see how, for a person with little else in their life, that would become a rush they’d want to recapture.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
9 years ago

I agree with EJ (The Other One), I look at that meme and see coal miners, too. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they weren’t going for a Holocaust theme; they might have had that in mind and just gotten the image wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time their memes inspired more ??? than outrage or agreement.

I also just noticed that fetching little “John Galt” under the AVfM logo. I don’t know how long it’s been there without my noticing, but I love it. An organization headed by a dude who lives off donations and the labors of his SO is making references to “Going Galt?” This same organization that frequently demands government money for different projects and initiatives (that they don’t want to lift a finger to organize) is going to take their genius abroad and free themselves from the takers?

Sure, guys.

rugbyyogi
9 years ago

Yes, I’m pretty sure that they’re talking about the exploitative labour practices – and how men are the only ones who had to (still do) endure dangerous and dirty workplaces. Not true. But obviously I’m not in favour of kids working in coal mining.

I’m also reasonably sure that this is photo from Lewis Hines who docmented child labour in the US. There are plenty of pictures of suffering girls, but it is fair to say that in terms of coal mining – maybe only boys were hired? http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/childlabor/ But it’s still a kinda convoluted meme.

A.A. Wils
9 years ago

Thank you Katz and Lowquacks for the welcome!

EJ–the “Holocaust Meme” from AVFM makes no sense whatsoever. Yes, it was mostly men that populated the concentration camps, but that was because typically the women and young children would be executed right away, upon arrival. Do these guys even know this? Were they all asleep that day in high school history class? Do they not watch the History Channel, at least? Criminitly….

Or are they being intellectually dishonest?

I guess it could be both–ignorance and dishonesty. But perhaps I don’t want to look too deeply into the abyss of their dark minds, because I would hate for that abyss to be staring back at me (to paraphrase Nietzsche–not my favorite philosopher, but some of his sayings are appropriate in this case)

Lea
Lea
9 years ago

I still admire many outspoken atheists. Watson and Christina among them. I enjoy reading FTBs and skepchick. I still think Hitchens was correct about many things and an excellent writer. He was also terribly wrong about some things. However, organized atheism as it stands does not want me and I don’t want it. Secular Woman is the only atheist org I will donate to and I will only be a part of an atheist community that is ardently feminist.

rugbyyogi
9 years ago

….as in “prejudice based on sex” is that BOYS and boys ALONE were the only ones who were subject to gross child labour practices. In coal mining that may have been true. But for other industries it certainly was not. Not milling or manufacture or agricultural labour. Girls were used exploitatively, too. Heck, for all I know, maybe in mining. But from this picture at this coal mine – it’s a boys-only hiring.

The meme only makes sense when you think of their mythology of men slaving away to make cushy lives for women – and that women didn’t also have dangerous, dirty jobs during those days (or now). It’s almost like they’ve never read The Jungle. Or anything, really…

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

My statement that it was a holocaust image is from what one of the commenters said underneath, but my first impression was also that it was actually a picture of 19th century workers. Rugby is correct though, that girls did have to do dirty jobs, often at the cost of their health and in sweatshop style conditions. The MRA narrative that wives and daughters got to sit at home all day isn’t correct at all. Since there was no minimum wage it wasn’t uncommon for both parents to have to work a job in order to make ends meet. I’m talking about the lower classes here, upper and middle did do the whole ‘woman as housewife while man works white collar job’ thing.

Yes child labour laws sucked. But it wasn’t just boys that suffered and certainly isn’t due to some historical feminist gynocracy. The abuse of power came from the 1%, which by the way was ALL MALE at the time.

ALL.
MALE.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
9 years ago

Oh look! Women and girls working in mines too. I still give AVFM a grade F for their disastrous attempt at rewriting history.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/citizenship/struggle_democracy/docs/pitbrow_girls.htm

weirwoodtreehugger
weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

One of the most famous industrial disasters was the Triangle Shirtwaist fire that killed female workers. The similar fire that killed a horrifying number of factory workers in Bangladesh a couple of years ago had mostly female victims.

If MRAs had even a rudimentary knowledge of historical and even current exploitative labor practices, they would know men were not the only ones forced to work in dangerous conditions for poverty level pay. In fact, women were paid even worse than men and also risked sexual abuse from their bosses.

Did every MRA just go to a really crap school? Or does joining the MRM cause all knowledge of history to be drained from your brain? Because they are always so staggeringly ignorant about the topic.

rugbyyogi
9 years ago

@sunnysombrera – and here’s the thing – the reason that children don’t work in mines anymore (or factories, but still do work in agriculture) in the West, is because of “social justice warriors” like Lewis Hines and the body that fought against child labour and commissioned him to take photos like the one above of breaker boys.

Miss Diketon
Miss Diketon
9 years ago

I’m also reasonably sure that this is photo from Lewis Hines who docmented child labour in the US. There are plenty of pictures of suffering girls, but it is fair to say that in terms of coal mining – maybe only boys were hired? http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/childlabor/ But it’s still a kinda convoluted meme.

I took a tour of a historic mine many years ago and it was mentioned that there was a common superstition that having women in the mines was bad luck. This superstition lasted until well into the mid-20th century.

A quick Google search also showed that many women did, in fact, work around and in mines notwithstanding any superstitions!

weirwoodtreehugger
weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

They really seem to think that Leave it to Beaver represents every family throughout all of history until big bad feminism took over.

I also can’t even with a meme maker who goes by the moniker John Galt bemoaning exploited workers. IT WAS YOUR BELOVED LAISSEZ-FAIRE CAPITALISM THAT DID THIS TO WORKERS, YOU THUNDERING DUMBASS!!!! YOU CAN’T BE PRO REGULATION FREE CAPITALISM AND STILL CLAIM TO BE CONCERNED WITH THE PLIGHT OF WORKERS!!!

Sorry for the outburst, but the complete stupidity and hypocrisy just got to me there. If you have a problem with an injustice that capitalism caused, take it up with fucking capitalism. Don’t worship capitalism and blame the problem on imaginary misandry! Gaahh!!!!

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
9 years ago

@WWTH

You’re talking about a group that thinks rape doesn’t exist but divorce is as bad as rape. Award-winning hypocrisy is one of the only things these dingleberries are good at. =P

davidknewton
davidknewton
9 years ago

Once again with the fat tweets! They just never grew out of it. I know that as childish as these are, they must grate when they’re constantly directed at you (not to mention the shocking stuff said in the rest of the post – where did that come from?!) – so on behalf of all of us, David – we enjoy and appreciate what you do. Never, ever stop 🙂

I hate to stoop to this level, but while we’re on the subject, it can’t have escaped his notice that Mr Esmay isn’t exactly Men’s Fitness material himself.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
9 years ago

Oh, John Galt is the artist’s pseudonym not some kind of Randian aside?

Huh. Well, I guess he can lay claim to being one of the “makers” in our society (maker of befuddling memes, but you gotta go with what you know I guess). I can’t see how this talent will do much for him in a scorched earth Objectivist utopia, though.

rugbyyogi
9 years ago

@Miss Diketon – yes! that’s right. I went on a coal mining tour in Wales only last summer and I forgot that the guide had mentioned the superstition.

I take my son to only the best and most fun attractions. Ah, the fond memories he’ll have of touring European funded industrial heritage parks!