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Pickup artist “Heartiste” seems to think the notion of “playing hard to get” was his idea in the first place

The combination of
The combination of “playing hard to get” and Dacron slacks once again proves irresistible to women.

Heartiste — the pompous racist shitbag and alleged pickup artist of great renown —  is feeling a bit boastful again.

In a post yesterday, he links to a two-year-old Business Insider post with the clickbaity title 12 Scientifically Proven Ways To Make Yourself More Attractive To The Opposite Sex. He’s interested in Scientifically Proven Way #8: “Men should play hard to get.”

The sciencey “proof” of this old saw comes from a 2010 study of, you guessed it, college undergraduates. As Business Insider’s Megan Willet summarized it, “the study suggested that if men hold back some of their feelings at the very beginning, and create some mystery, he’ll be more likely to hook a member of the opposite sex.”

The Business Insider piece also suggests eating fruits and vegetables, keeping your teeth white, and, if you’re a woman, wearing red lipstick.

Somewhat odder suggestions: women should talk in a higher voice and men should wear a T-shirt. That is, a shirt with a giant letter T on it. Apparently, according to some study from researchers at Nottingham Trent University that I’m not going to bother to read, women find men with giant T’s on their shirts “12% more attractive,” because the T creates the illusion of broader shoulders and a thinner waist.

In other words, as is often the case in such articles, the “scientific” advice is either trite, blindingly obvious or kind of silly.

But Heartiste thinks that this whole “playing hard to get” thing is quite the revelation.

He also seems to think it was … his idea in the first place.

The mainstream media have been reading CH. “Men should play hard to get.” Glad to see the Rude Word of Game is finally penetrating block-like skulls.

Yes, dude, I’m sure this two-year old article referencing a five-year-old study that seems to reaffirm a “Game” principle that probably dates back to prehistoric days is the result of people reading your idiot blog.

I mean, my fucking cats understand “playing hard to get.”

This isn’t the first time Heartiste has tried to claim some bit of conventional wisdom as a Heartiste Original.  I called him out a couple of years back for claiming he had “introduced”‘ the idea of sexual market value, which led to this highly edifying Twitter “debate.” (Sorry about the duplicate tweets; that’s just how Twitter handles embedding.)

https://twitter.com/heartiste/status/393751507310354432

I noted that the term “meat market” was a common way to describe singles bars, and pointed out that really, the whole “dating world = marketplace” equation was “a commonplace notion that no sensible person would claim they’d thought up or popularized recently.”

Ah, well, I amuse myself at least.

And speaking of amusing: I also just discovered this definition of Sexual Market Value on Urban Dictionary; not only is it much more entertaining than Heartiste’s version, but it was also posted a year before Mr. H claims he “introduced” the idea.

TOP DEFINITION     Sexual Market Value Ones Sexual Market Value can only be found by using this simple easy to use equation.   ((Attractiveness) + ((4x)Socal status) + (Style)) - ((Nose Length) + (Weight) + (C) + (-Height))= Sexual Market Value   When (C) equals car type  Truck = 30  Car = 20  Suv = 10  Hybrid = 300  Motorcycle = 0  Vespa = 600  Van = 25  Classic Car = 5  Dune Buggy = -42

After doing the calculations, I find that my SMV is 7.37482 pounds per square inch (of nose).

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

David, just to let you know, in certain parts of the UK “ponce” is less than flattering slang for a gay man or a straight man that acts in what is perceived to be a stereotypically gay fashion.

AnAndrejaPejicBlog (@Lindsay_Irene)

One of Heartiste’s minions is “bjworthy69”? Yeah, you just keep trying to convince everyone that you’re getting all kinds of oral sex there, buddy. We totally believe you. *smirk* You’re not overcompensating or anything!!

So the BI article says that women should wear red lipstick to be attractive, but every goddamn “Don’t wear this ladies, men hate it!” article that shows up on the internet claims that men hate it. How am I supposed to know which clickbait to believe?

Jeff K
Jeff K
5 years ago

Thank goodness for SMV, I might have thought, foolishly, that self-acceptance and treating others with respect might make me attractive to others.

And there has to be a factor to add or subtract depending in the type of person you want to meet. You can’t tell me the average gay male won’t be happy to date a guy with a dune buggy. A submarine would likely break the grading curve.

freemage
5 years ago

I love that formula, particularly its lack of units, or measurement guide for any of the abstract values other than… your car. And of course, there’s no hint as to what a good or bad final SMV would be. If your SMV is 17, does this mean that you’re forever alone, or that you have men and women begging to buy you drinks?

Also, the fact that, if I read the formula right, the sexiest thing you can own is a dune buggy makes me giggle.

Diane F. Martin
5 years ago

I like when men play hard-to-get because it means they aren’t harassing me or trying to get in my business.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@freemage:

Actually, there’s a hidden minus sign, so the sexiest vehicle is actually a Vespa. A prius is a distant second, apparently.

Since there are no units specified anywhere, the only thing I can conclude is that the creator thinks the most important factor is social status. Well, imagine that; if people think you’re awesome, they’ll want to sleep with you.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@freemage:

Wait, crap, you’re right. Dune buggy it is.

Adam Pack
5 years ago

Due to my cherished ignorance of the PUA world, and the way we grade drawing implements here in England, I thought when you said ‘HB10s’ you were talking about unusually large pencils. Sadly Google has now disillusioned me.

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

B-bu-bu-but how can you calculate SMV without your wrist circumference?!

reymohammed
reymohammed
5 years ago

That article purporting to show “12 Scientifically Proven Ways ” to attract the opposite sex is right in only one point: clean, sound teeth are a sign of good health. Lipstick depends on both the face and the fashion. For my part, I have always found a spontaneously joyous, smiling man attractive. What is repellent is phony cheerfulness.

I have noticed it is the habit of North American women to pitch their voices about half an octave lower than a Brit’s. I put it down to our earlier exposure to dictaphones and answering machines, and our disgust at hearing the playback sound like Minnie Mouse.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Considering the size of the average woman’s head and the size of the average man’s belly, Heartiste is either a) very, very obese or b) lying. Or c) those HB10s are actually Barbie dolls.

AAAtheist
5 years ago

Somewhat odder suggestions: women should talk in a higher voice and men should wear a T-shirt.  That is, a shirt with a giant letter T on it.  Apparently, according to some study from researchers at Nottingham Trent University that I’m not going to bother to read, women find men with giant T’s on their shirts “12% more attractive,” because the T creates the illusion of broader shoulders and a thinner waist.

I sooooooooooo hope PUAs adopt this tactic so we can point at and laugh at them even more easily than we do now!

Maybe the giant “T” stands for tacky?  Who else wants to play?  XD

davidknewton
davidknewton
5 years ago

“I actually have three HB10s napping in the folds of my belly fat right this moment.” 😀 I admire your ability to shrug this stuff off – it’s amazing that this whole group never advanced beyond the debate tactic of calling people fat.

In keeping with British slang, “T” = “Tosspot”.

Falconer
5 years ago

Psst … sunnysombrera … that’s David’s tweet, and I think he means his cats.

Falconer
5 years ago

I’m in Tennessee, so I frequently see people walking around with giant Ts on their shirts. Unfortunately, it’s in a serif typeface, so it isn’t all that slimming.

proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

This reminds me of when my kid declared that she had invented the games “spin around on your swing until you’re about to barf” and “don’t touch the floor – it’s lava!”.

She was 6.

It’s good to know that she’s since passed by the average PUA in her level of maturity and self-reflection.

fromafar2013
5 years ago

Woo, I have a hybrid, so by SMV is somewhere around -300 regardless of the other values.

I’m guessing the hybrids are less ‘sexy’ than just regular cars because they’re part electric?

Okay, but what if someone has a Tesla Roadster? It’s fully electric, so it’s less ‘sexy’ than the partially electric hybrid cars, right? But it’s a roadster, and some newer Tesla models come with a mode that lets you go from 0 to 60 in a hair over 3 seconds, and that’s sexy, right? Plus all electric and most hybrid models have all of their (often impressive amounts of) torque available at all times at any speed (no need to ‘rev up’) so acceleration is super quick and very smooth, even from a stop, giving you a performance edge over similarly speced ICE vehicles. Soooo… what’s my SMV now!? I’m so confused.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ David

It may well have that meaning elsewhere over your side of the pond. Over here it originally meant ‘pimp’ or any man who essentially mooched off of women. It’s still sometimes used with that connotation e.g if a bloke won’t get a job “You still poncing off your girlfriend?” etc.

dhag85
5 years ago

I actually love how obvious it is that you’re seriously bothering these people. The slightest criticism and their auto-response is “UR FAT!!!” Like babies.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

It’s interesting to see how quickly Heartiste’s amused mastery disappears when he’s directly challenged. That wasn’t very alpha of him, regressing to the third grade.

Yeah, he didn’t invent or even popularize SMV. All he did was redefine it to benefit men, and then present it as evo psych gospel. If you look at that ridiculous quiz on his site, the standards for women are virtually unattainable (and go rapidly downhill from there), while all men need to do is show up and have a pulse. Any economist would laugh themselves silly at that model.

Lisa C (@hppykittystudio)

Oh, Fart-tiste…..you should never be allowed near a computer or singles bar :

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

@fromafar2013 “I’m guessing the hybrids are less ‘sexy’ than just regular cars because they’re part electric?”

If things being electric makes them less sexy that’s bad news for those MGTOW/incels and their sexbot dreams.

Monzach
Monzach
5 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw: I shudder to think what the English opinion on the Conquistador Juan Ponce de Leon is, then. :O

@proxieme: I thought I’d invented the game “swing on a swing-y thing in your yard and then kick the ball that your buddy throws at you” when I was 6, too. I quickly realized that other kids has copied my great invention. 🙁

As for the OP, I love how secure in his manly manliness he is, relying on all sorts of personal insults the moment that his “originality” is questioned…

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Big whoop. My BFF and I invented The Bachelor when we were kids in the early 90s. Except we role played it with a bunch of troll dolls. I’m going to contact ABC and demand a cut.

fromafar2013
5 years ago

Except we role played it with a bunch of troll dolls.

Holy shit. No joke. My sister and I did that too! We took all of the books out of the book shelves and made ‘troll condos’ where all the action happened. LOL

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

I actually have three HB10s napping in the folds of my belly fat right this moment.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/62085605.jpg

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
5 years ago

@Spindrift

If things being electric makes them less sexy that’s bad news for those MGTOW/incels and their sexbot dreams.

Since they’re all freedom and oil loving libertarians, and not sissy tree-huggers, I assume their sexbots will be powered by chainsaw motors. Drill, baby, drill!

The image of a guy in a fedora standing over a realdoll and cranking on a pull cord to get it started, followed by the sounds of lovemaking mixed with engine noise, is very amusing to me.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

“I actually have three HB10s napping in the folds of my belly fat right this moment.”

LOL! Lucky you. 🙂 (I totally mean it.)

Heartiste’s appearance-based insults are indicative of his developmental age (roughly 7, I’d say). There is no T-shirt that would make that attractive. In a grown man.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Adam Pack | May 12, 2015 at 1:04 pm
Due to my cherished ignorance of the PUA world, and the way we grade drawing implements here in England, I thought when you said ‘HB10s’ you were talking about unusually large pencils. Sadly Google has now disillusioned me.

We grade pencils the same way here, so your comment did make me think about David trying to wiggle some pencils in between the ferrets, which did make me giggle.

So good on you. :3

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

To our dear frienemy Heartiste: Words mean things.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

@Falconer
@David F
OH MY GOD I CAN’T READ TODAY. OAO

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

Heartiste: Hur, hur, I introduced the term SMV.
David: Actually, people were using that term before you first used it.
Heartiste: OH YEAH? WELL, YOU’RE FAT.

What a stunning display of manly man redpill logic we have here.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

Also, if he’s claiming that people need to cite him or reference him when referring to sexual market values, then he’s claiming to be the person who invented it. If someone else invented it, people would cite or reference that person, not him.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Um, why are those three women in the ad all identical? Same hairdo, same outfit, even the same shoes. Could it be that they are all ONE woman, and an imaginary one at that?

Questions, questions. I must have answers!

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

@falconer, although I live in the UK now, I’m from Tennessee and wear the Serif T often. It’s just lucky I look so good in orange.

I like how with the double negative the dune buggy wins. I would totally like to drive one of those.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Rude Word of Game

He does have such a way with words, doesn’t he. Unfortunately, it’s a shit way.

theluckyfrog
5 years ago

Maybe it’s just my slight insecurity/ commitment issues, but in my mind the most attractive thing a guy can do is act like he really likes me. Not by flattering me excessively or buying me too much shit, but just by seeming genuinely happy to see me, tell me things, spend time with me. If I get an ambivalent vibe, it tells me that I shouldn’t be getting invested emotionally.

I don’t get this idea that women OR men would reject a partner who makes them feel good about themselves. Nothing feels better than knowing the person you’re with really wants to be with you. The point of having a relationship is to have more intimacy with that person than with everybody else. Any significant amount of “mystery” seems counterproductive.

Ellesar
Ellesar
5 years ago

Dear Me! Fartistes comebacks are as sharp as a tack – NOT! Talk about puerile Babyman.

epitome of incomprehensibility

In the ad, I think they were trying for a “fierce & sexy” look with the model in the foreground, but they got an “I want to bite your knee off” look instead. That’s always a danger, you know: if you play hard to get, an HB10 might try to bite your knee (perhaps especially if the said HB10 is a cat).

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

The concept behind the “sexual market value” goes back at least to 1996. In the May 1996 issue of the Quarterly Journal of Economics, there was a paper that, in the course of analyzing the uptick in out-of-wedlock births, frames sex as an economic transaction between men (who provide money that women want in order to securely raise children) and women (who provide sex that men want). The terms “sexual marketplace” or “sexual market value” are not used, but anyone with any sense can read it and see that what the article talks about is a market model of sex. It does talk about “game,” though … game theory, that is.

I reckon Heartiste needed to make sure that concept had properly aged before he jumped the bandwagon, like fine cheese or whine.

I will say, however, that “playing hard to get” is probably a good idea for any dude who thinks that “game” is going to help him. Ceasing to come on like a ton of bricks to every lady who gives him a hard-on genuinely will make him at least less unattractive.

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

@theluckyfrog

That’s the perspective of a mature person’s interested in genuine companionship. When I was stumbling through adolescence, women seemed to show more interest in me (not necessarily romantic interest) once I stopped caring, and appeared indifferent. If I became eager to talk at some future point, that respect or interest level would quickly disappear. I think this is general issue with stage of life, irrespective of gender; showing interest equals vulnerability, vulnerability equals weakness and weakness is considered unattractive in a young people’s minds.

These grown men are stuck in that adolescent mindset. And I find it laughable how they think they can generate attraction out of nothing. If it isn’t there, there’s nothing to build on. Move on.

Their problem is probably lower than average physical attractiveness (no-one’s fault), and, of course, repellent personalities.

freemage
5 years ago

What I really want to know is, what units are used to measure ‘nose length’, and how is it measured? Bridge to tip? Philtrum* to tip? In either case, is it a point-to-point straight line, or do you factor in curvature?

Oh, and kirbywarp, don’t sweat misreading the way the car value works–I had to sit there, counting open/close parentheses for a few minutes to make certain I had it right.

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

Back in the early 1980s, at university, I saw a card that touched on this issue. Two generic cartoon women at a generic cartoon cafe table, one woman saying, “So I told him, ‘I’m not _playing_ hard to get, you clod – I_am_hard to get.'”

Curious how some things stick in the memory.

Flora
Flora
5 years ago

Hey David, have you seen this video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKkAL1AEam8

Not only does this reporter school them, one of the guys was fired, the facilities have banned them, AND they are increasing security for the female reporters so they don’t have to face this harassment because entitled d-bags “find it to be quite substantial.”

Bette Hopper
Bette Hopper
5 years ago

I was waiting for the “T” to signify Testosterone — an NLP trick or something.

BTW if any aspiring PUA’s are reading this thread, “game” is really transparent. Blech.

theluckyfrog
5 years ago

@Bryce,

I’ve generally been the person who acts how you’re describing– who’s afraid to show interest in a person or pursue a real connection because I might come off as needy or otherwise off-putting. But you can’t expect people to work any harder at getting close to you than you would work at getting close to them. Being detached never got me anywhere, so only recently have I been calling people back, initiating plans first, and even just talking to strangers very much. I haven’t gotten a relationship out of it yet, but at least I’ve got something that mildly resembles a social life.

To quote an otherwise largely incomprehensible Beatles song, you know that it’s a fool/ who plays it cool/ by making his world a little colder.

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

Dear Manospherians, every time you resort to “well you’re fat”, you’ve conceded the argument.

@theluckyfrog & @Bryce

I’ve done that too. Now you’ve got me wondering if I shouldn’t be so afraid of showing my interest.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

OT: see this news story about a Canadian female reporter who was heckled, in the typical nasty sexist manner, on air, and went after her hecklers, on air:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3078911/Toronto-man-fired-tries-justify-vulgar-TV-remark.html

As a result of this on air confrontation, one of the sexist troglodytes lost his job. (More sackings to follow, I hope.)

Ah, blessed karma. Or, as MRA put it, misaaaandry!