Today, a bit of creepy irony, courtesy of Janet Bloomfield’s JudgyBitch blog.
Yesterday, Bloomfield put up a post (archived here) with the title “Feminists borrowing from terrorists now?” The source of her outrage? The anger directed at the now-notorious “Are You Beach Body Ready” ads posted in London tube stations by a weightloss powder company called Protein World.
The ads’ detractors, many of them feminists, think that the ad campaign contributes to fat shaming. Some of these critics have — gasp! — written on the ads with magic markers to express their dissatisfaction, acts of minor vandalism that the company’s CEO indignantly denounced as “terrorism.” No, really.
The company has also, it claims, gotten a number of threats, including a bomb threat. That’s a lot more serious, and completely indefensible; bomb threats are indeed intended to terrorise.
The irony? When I went to take a look at Bloomfield’s post last night, this was the first comment left on it:
I’m sorry, but that’s pretty fucking creepy. And it’s now been up on her site for a day.
I’m not quite sure how Bloomfield figures that bomb threats are terrorism but a comment warning feminists that “I’ll have my vengeance” is fine.
There’s a nice article here about the whole poster issue:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/04/protein-world-beach-body-adverts-only-prove-body-shaming-feminist-issue
Funnily enough I’ve had ‘encounters’ with the woman in the posters quite a bit in the past. A particular person in my life is constantly trying to persuade me to veganism. I keep finding photographs on my Facebook feed of quarterbacks and MMA fighters who are veggie/vegan.
The woman in the poster sometimes appears. Not sure about the persuasiveness of that. I’m not even bothered about looking like the blokes and, no disrespect to any trans friends, I’m especially not interested in looking like the woman. The woman in question though is a famous veggie. I’ve pointed out that those shakes probably have to be made with milk though and the dairy industry is *evil* (apparently) so I’m not sure she’s a good vegan role model.
Just a quick note on the ‘terrorism’ issue.
The definition of terrorism is a complex issue in law, but generally there has to be an element of coercion involved. The actions have to be intended to bring about a change in government policy.
So to give a *hypothetical* example.
If someone says “We will keep sinking fishing boats until your government changes its policy on whaling”; that’s terrorism.
If however we say “We know you’re going to carry on whatever we do so we’ll just sink your boats to make that harder” then that’s not terrorism.
Hope that makes sense.
John Goodman has had nothing but serious roles lately. He’s in this movie with Mark Whalburg where he plays a mobster. (He’s the guy shaving his head. Tell me he looks like a “joke” in this one.)
I enjoyed Goodman’s role on the West Wing as well.
Has anyone said Marlon Brando? The Godfather?
This is basic intersectional stuff here. Yes, fat men are oppressed compared to trim men (very skinny men are too, for what it’s worth). Nobody is trying to claim otherwise. It’s valid to be pained over that. It’s valid to identify where it happens and to be vocal about opposing it. There’s not a thing wrong with deciding, “Hey, I think there should be more people talking about how men are affected by fat shaming, and therefore I’m going to start a blog / write a column / organize a support group / do something about it”.
I’m going to restrain myself from giving a bunch of examples as to why women are disproportionately affected by fat shaming; the other commenters are already on top of that. But Bryce, the reason this is coming up again is because earlier in this thread, FatMax said that men “are judged by [their] abs, as strenuously and cruelly as (if not worse, much worse, than) women for their thighs and hips”. The reason it came up in the previous thread is because you expressed a belief that men are underrepresented in body positivity, initially with the claim that body shaming affects men and women equally.
Nobody is saying that men aren’t hurt by fat shaming. Nobody is saying that fat shaming towards men never happens, or that it’s okay, or even that it’s not a particularly big deal. I’d imagine that most of us would actually be interested in having a conversation about men and body positivity in a context that calls for it. What we are saying is that fat shaming, far and away, harms women more directly, drastically, and in much larger numbers than it does for men. Men suffer from it, absolutely, and men’s pain is valid. But it is incorrect to say that it equally affects men and women, and downright backwards to claim that guys have it “worse, much worse”. Hence the reactions in this thread.
Intersectionality means you can truly be oppressed due to your appearance, but you still hold real privilege due to being male, and that privilege actually affects how, when, in what contexts, and to what severity you are affected by that oppression (and vice versa). Fat women are oppressed due to their gender AND appearance, and those oppressions are compounded in how they are treated. Start adding race, physical ability, other genders, and various sexual orientations into that, and things become even more complex.
I’m a white, straight, able-bodied, cisgendered woman, who has been moderately overweight ever since puberty decided that gaining weight would be a fun thing to do. I have experienced fat shaming, and it hurts. A lot. But I am able-bodied, which means that what I have experienced can’t hold a candle to a dear friend of mine who is heavier than I am AND has an invisible disability that sometimes forces her to use a wheelchair. She’s gotten dirty looks, snickers, and open rebukes for being too fat and lazy to walk. I seethe every time I see the internet laughing at a picture of a fat woman on a scooter at Wal-Mart, because I know how deeply this kind of garbage hurts her.
I don’t have to be equally targeted by fat shaming for my pain to matter, but I can’t claim that she and I experience remotely the same kind of oppression. I can’t go into a discussion between people with invisible illnesses and ask them why they’re not talking about the fat shaming that able-bodied people face.
It’s the same principle when you’re looking at the difference in how gender affects fat shaming. Your pain is real, and it counts, but it doesn’t level the playing field. Society is too mired in weird hierarchies for it to be that simple.
I fell asleep after my last comment, but Bryce, seconding kootiepatra
Yep exactly what kootiepatra said.
I do particularly worry about the fat shaming of men and am very interested in it, partly because I have son who is built like me and eats like me and has to be encouraged to move. He’s not currently properly fat and he’s only 7, but I can see him flipping into fat quite easily. He already is fat shamed by his grandmother (and lesser extent grandfather) and is subjected to her fat shaming me.
But while I know my son can and probably will experience body shaming, it won’t be nearly as bad as what it would be like if he were a chubby girl. Thank god for contact rugby!
I live in London and I’ve seen the ads and I’m totally psyched by the awesome responses to this awful campaign and even worse response from the company.
Carlsberg Beer came up with this great reactionary campaign http://metro.co.uk/2015/05/01/carlsberg-pokes-fun-at-protein-worlds-controversial-beach-body-ads-by-asking-are-you-beer-body-ready-5176078/ but the beer bottle here is clearly a man – reinforcing that it’s ok for a man to be beer body ready, but a woman still (maybe) has to be beach body ready….
As a fat white man, I am nthing kootiepatra. I definitely have shit that sucks, but I don’t pretend I have it worse than other people.
Just to bring this up, skinny people get shit too. I have grown to dislike body policing. I remember working with a very skinny woman who got comments about how she needed a sandwich. That and I liked the Meghan Trainor(sp?) song but feel it was ruined by the “skinny bitches” bullshit.
“I have grown to.” Ugh I should proofread my posts better. I have grown to see the problem of body policing of any sort.
@opium, agreed, I just saw this thing about body policing a few days ago http://time.com/3832767/cassey-ho-perfect-body-photoshop-video/ I used to have attitude when already-thin women did this sort of thing, but for some reason this jarred it in my head that even though fat women definitely get it worse than skinny, any woman who puts herself out there faces this shit.
This link is better, it shows the instagram photo where someone actually said she was still too fat http://www.buzzfeed.com/candacelowry/this-woman-photoshopped-herself-into-the-perfect-body-after#.yyk8BNxQ2
There’s no way to woman right. We’re all either too fat or too thin. Our breasts are always too big or too small. If we dress in trendy clothes and wear lots of makeup we’re vain and superficial and can’t be taken seriously. If we don’t, we’re ugly, frumpy and not even trying so we can’t be taken seriously. We’re supposed to dress sexy to please boners but if we do please boners we’re sluts and bitches who lead men on and ask for rape.
If anyone thinks men’s appearances are policed that much, they haven’t been paying attention to a single thing women say.
In general, people don’t call a man fat until the man is actually fat. Women can be called fat just for being anything but runway-model thin*. Of course, when a woman is runway-model thin, people tell her to eat a cheeseburger or ask where her ass is.
*Which takes more than just low BMI–the right height and bone structure is necessary, too.
The Daredevil movie cast Michael Clark Duncan as Kingpin; the Netflix series has Vincent D’Onofrio. You could say they were cast because of their size; certainly seems safe to say D’Onofrio was cast in Full Metal Jacket in part because of it. But the Kingpin is imposing, and Pvt. Lawrence is tragic, and they both define the stories they’re part of.
re: body policing: My eldest just turned 11 and is already catching flak from other girls about being “too skinny” (she eats but is very active and has my long, slim body type)…
…and at the same time is worried that any skin that she can manage to pinch on her belly means that she’s fat -_-
11.
Our collective crap has her convinced that she’s both “too skinny” and “fat”.
And the thing that gets me about MRAs, PUAs, and other assorted shitbags is that they think it’s RIGHT and PROPER that the bodies of girls and women should be subject to public gaze and critique.
And, yes, boys and men are also subject to this (it seems increasingly so), but it’s just not at the same pervasive, insidious level.
It’s a conversation worth having, but it’s not this conversation.
Right, I’m completely wrong about my experience being called “fugly” and passed over by women due to my body type, and the other large men in here explaining their similar experience. You obviously know me better than me.
I think it’s time I moved on from here.
Fatmax, no one asked you start playing oppression Olympics. You’re the one who chose to do that.
Honestly, I’m rarely surprised when AVfMers are hypocrites. After all, they’re the ones running a hate movement under the guise of “human rights”. They’ve been hypocrites from the start. And this “Judgybitch” is the worst of the lot.
Fatmax,
Nobody is saying that. The objection was to you claiming that men have it worse. You’re the one brushing off the experiences of women. On a feminist website.
Since Bryce is doing it, let’s play the game of “what about (fat) actors!”
Bryce mentioned “Bill Murray isn’t particularly overweight”… and indeed, if we’re going by the BMI chart (for men), he is “healthy”. Now let’s look at a female celebrity… how bout Lena Dunham. On a BMI chart (for women) she too is “healthy” or at most on the border with “over weight”…
Now, I’m not the most knowledgeable about famous people and I’ll be darned if I remember most of their names… but I can say that I know Bill Murray and Lena Dunham.
I have to say my first main hearing of the name Lena Dunham involved the phrase “is fat” right next to it. Like seriously, if I were going based on the internet… I’d assume that was all she does… though I do get that usually people are more concerned about famous people so I figured she must be famous in some way, but honestly I had no idea and still have little idea what she does, what she’s in, or what she even really looks like. All I know about her is how there’s a lot of hate towards her for not being upset that guys think she’s fat.
Bill Murray though… evidently he’s had a longer time of having info on the net, so there are plenty of pages discussing his weight… but I’ve never just seen anyone flat out bitch about his weight. I know several of what he’s been in, I know what he looks like, and when people mention him, it’s usually in context of what he’s done or what he’s doing. I don’t see people raging about how fat he.
And when I look up other celebrity names in reference to them being fat… a lot of the times the result involve either websites that concern themselves specifically with celebrity health/weight or involve an interview in which said famous person is making a self depreciating remark. I mean, maybe I’m not trawling the right kind of forums to catch all the “__insert_male_actor_here__ is fat” comments…*
Actually, let me be fair… I have heard “EWWW ____ is gross/fat” for one actor in particular… specifically it was Stephen Fry when he was naked in Sherlock Holmes and most of the time was from people right after they saw the movie.
Also, what’s this bullshit about fat actors not getting serious roles? If you don’t think that fat actors don’t get serious roles, either you don’t know much about cinema and tv or you personally don’t take those actors serious and ignore any of their serious work.
*the case being that I’d have to actively search them out vs. my experience of easily coming across “Lena Dunham is fat” comments in boards I’ve been on that were not related to celebrities or weight loss or topics that seem relevant to celebrity weight.
I forget who mentioned it, but they’re right that men tend not to get called fat until they’re actually fat, or at least pudgy, whereas women can get the “fat” label simply for not being a supermodel size. I remember the fuss over Jennifer Lawrence as the Hunger Games lead – I’ve never seen anyone whine about a new, less-than-perfect-bodied male actor being cast as the main role.
Lena Dunham is the star of the HBO show Girls. Even though it’s not a particularly highly rated and widely watched show, it causes misogynist temper tantrums on a regular basis because she has the gall to do nude scenes while being bigger than a size two. This caused a worldwide sad boner crisis.