So our old dear friend Roosh Valizadeh — the not-quite-Nazi pickup artist and rape legalization advocate — appeared on The Dr. Oz Show today. No, really.
Dr. Oz brought him on to elucidate the “fat shaming”campaign that he launched a couple of years ago to fight back against the women who torment him daily by being too big to please his boner. Apparently, at least in the eyes of Dr. Oz and his producers, Roosh is the “leader of the international fat shaming movement.”
Shockingly. neither Dr. Oz nor his mostly female studio audience were grateful for Roosh’s work on this front. Oz pointed out that fat shaming doesn’t work — all it really accomplishes is to make people feel shitty about themselves — and brought out a number of unapologetically fat women to confront him. Roosh responded by robotically repeating his talking points. (If you missed the show, you can watch a snippet of it here or read a recap here.)
In many ways more interesting than the show itself is Roosh’s reaction to it. In a blog post today, Roosh complains that he “was backstabbed by Dr. Oz and his female producers.”
As he tells it, these devious females sweet talked him to get him on the show, telling him what he wanted to hear and treating him “courteous[ly] and professional[ly].” On the day of the show, as they prepped him for his appearance, staffers
smiled at me and seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say about fat shaming, and one even went so far as to offer aid in obtaining the loose leaf green tea that I desired (I avoid bagged teas whenever possible). From the behavior they showed me, it was safe to assume that I was about to have an honest conversation about the obesity issue on mainstream American television.
And then Dr. Oz called him a “monster” on national TV, and made him talk to some fat women who didn’t much appreciate his “help.”
After his segment, Roosh reports, “[t]he backstage hands didn’t even look at me.”
Yep, that’s right. The proudly amoral “pickup artist” is complaining that he was seduced, used, and abandoned.
So what exactly did the mean Dr. Oz do to poor Mr. Valizadeh?
Here’s Roosh’s version of events:
I was ushered backstage and did a microphone test for the sound engineer. There were several monitors above where I could see the studio set. I looked up at one and saw Dr. Oz introducing me. I was preparing to go on the stage with a slight smile, but that notion quickly evaporated when I heard the word “monster” and “bringing him out from the shadows.” Instantly, I knew I was walking into a trap. I looked around, half hoping for a hug or some assurance that everything was going to be okay, but realized that the staff who were so cheery earlier knew all along that they were ushering me to a public execution. They sedated me with niceities so I would not be mentally prepared for what was about to happen.
I’m sorry, but my irony meter just burst into flames.
I shook Dr. Oz’s hand, the man who just called me a monster, out of instinct. The lights were bright but not in my face, making it hard to see the 200 people in the audience. I counted three cameras with teleprompters attached and didn’t know if I should look at them or not. My mouth suddenly felt dry.
Dr. Oz’s attack began by cherry picking the meanest quotes I’ve ever written and asking me to justify them. I got out my shovel, ready to work, but every time I climbed up the edge, Dr. Oz would push me back in by saying I was “screwed up” or offer some type of emotional outburst before wild applause by the audience. I have been to European soccer games with less emotion.
Having read a great deal of Mr. V’s writings over the past several years, I feel safe in saying that the quotes Dr. Oz read back to Roosh — that men would “rather die than have sex with a woman over 150 pounds,” that only ugly people and feminists think that beauty is on the inside — were not “the meanest quotes [he’s] ever written.” Not even close. Nor did Roosh’s segments on the show much resemble a soccer match — or even a Jerry Springer show. It was actually fairly tame, by daytime talk show standards.
I tried to take the conversation out of feelings and into logic by claiming that thin women are objectively more attractive and that obesity is causing huge public health problems, but they specifically wanted to focus on me and my “hatred” and all the feelings I’m hurting. The debate was framed in a way to not bring up facts that went against the party line.
Not really. Roosh was given a good deal of time in which he could have set forth his “facts.” He simply didn’t have any facts to report. Even aside from Roosh’s assholery, his entire “fat shaming” campaign is built upon a premise that numerous studies have found to be false; on the show, Roosh more or less admitted that he’s done precisely zero actual research on the issue.
After frothing up the audience to despise me, Dr. Oz initiated the two minutes of hate. He found the fattest women in the New York area and put them on steel reinforced seats to insult me as they wished. The crowd cheered and applauded after each fat woman gave her prepared diatribe. It was at this point I started examining the crowd of mostly women. I made eye contact with a few to see if they would stick their tongue out at me or wag their finger, but they didn’t. They were motionless mannequins that waited for the flashing studio light to give a response.
I’m not quite sure why Roosh expected women to stick their tongues out at him like three-year-olds, but whenever Oz’s producers cut to the audience, I didn’t see “motionless mannequins”; I saw women incredulous and disgusted by what he had to say. If anyone on the show appeared robotic, it was Roosh.
At one point, Roosh reports,
I looked at Dr. Oz and wondered if he would cap it all off by punching me. It would make for good television, at least.
Towards the end of his appearance, Roosh continues,.
I squeezed in a decent bit about how fat acceptance shortens everyone’s life spans, and I heard a gasp from somewhere as if what I said was shocking, and realized that my statement will probably be edited out.
Nope. It wasn’t. Again, Roosh had plenty of opportunity to present his case, such as it is; it’s not Dr. Oz’ fault that the “leader of the international fat shaming movement” didn’t have much of a case to present.
Which makes sense, because it’s blindingly obvious that Roosh doesn’t actually care about the well-being of fat women (or men); he just wants them to feel shitty.
Yet he still feels, somehow, that he is trying to save Western Civilization. Before he went on the show, he writes, he delivered the following monologue to a friend of his who went with him to the taping:
Hundreds of years ago, I would have been a soldier, fighting battles to defend my country against invaders, or invading another tribe to steal their women and land. But here I am, with makeup on my face, about to talk about fat people, because now the world values entertainment more than anything else. They want singers and actors and famous people to make them forget about their boring lives, and even women we meet want the same. I was given some type of ability by god or nature so that I am wanted here right now in this building during this strange time of humanity, and so I will use that ability, and give everyone their entertainment.
Sorry to break it to you, Roosh, but you’re not nearly as entertaining as you think you are.
Hugs to you, Lanariel!
I think it was an attempt to make his own quackery seem more reasonable by comparison. You know, “Fat-shaming is morally terrible and proven to be counterproductive…but folks, here’s something that really works!”
That’s yet another irony: Roosh himself unwittingly being used as clickbait, to drum up audience outrage. He’s always gleefully reporting on some imaginary freakish behavior that’s undermining Western civilization, and telling his readers they need to ostracize such people. Then the moment he goes onto mainstream media, suddenly he’s the freak, he’s the one being shunned for outlandish behavior. It’s a heartwarming sight, and restores one’s faith in humanity a little, even if Oz’s motives for inviting Roosh on the show may not have been pure.
Thank you everyone for the hugs, you guys just kinda made my day 🙂
Hope I’m not too late to offer hugs!
http://castletv.net/wp-content/forumuploads/shena/2012/12/cute-animal-hugging-pictures-009.jpg
@Kootiepatra @M
I guess the reasons are obvious.
One thing.. differing societal expectation, doesn’t necessarily mean than women are any more accepting of obesity in a potential partner than men ie. that dating is going to be easier for a large guy. Not that that’s really relevant to the topic of fat shaming.
Darn. Grammar/spelling fail.
The whole fat women vs fat men dating thing always makes me think of these videos.
Bryce,
Eh. I don’t know about that. I bet if you went through dating profiles you’d see a whole lot more men requesting no fatties than women. I’d be willing to bet that men are more likely to dump women over a weight gain than the reverse too. I don’t know if there’s research on this, but just anecdotally it seems like men are much more into thinness as a demand than women. Just in general.
The whole fat sitcom husband with thin conventionally attractive wife trope would certainly seem to back those cultural preferences up. Women are socialized to look past appearance. Men aren’t. Having a beautiful wife or girlfriend is the ultimate status symbol for men.
I’m generally opposed to Dr Oz due to the amount of pseudo-science he promotes but good on him in this instance I suppose. I still agree with the doctors saying he should be kicked out of his university position though.
I do not necessarily think that because men are more open and obvious about fat hate that it necessarily follows that women don’t fat hate. I think it’s more a symptom of patriarchy again; men are just more used to their tastes being catered to and so are more willing to state their tastes outright, especially when that taste is encouraged by society as fat hate so often is.
…I hope that makes sense, I just woke up heh.
Rofl, you are one fatty yourself everything you say = invalid. Too much bias.
I do not know what Dr Oz is and have no interest in finding out, but if Roosh really expected that he would be treated with love and respect from the media, *considering what his output consists of*, he really is a total idiot.
Don’t put out hate if you don’t want to get hate back, RooshV.
@isidore – It seems like women are taught to avoid openly stating their preferences – if they want to be considered caring and decent that is – so much so that it seems like appearance isn’t much of a factor, when in all likelihood, it is.
@bryce – patriarchy sucks, doesn’t it? Men are rewarded for shallowness, women punished, in other words. So shallowness as a trait is something men are more willing to publicly indulge in.
But back to your original query, I do think that women are more engaged with fat acceptance than men, as someone said, and therefore it addresses men’s issues less. The solution for that is for more men to start engaging with fat acceptance in concert with women.
Watched a bit of the clip. Roosh responds to the “Men would rather die than sleep with a woman over 150lb” line by saying the ‘men he knows’ don’t want to sleep with a woman who is ‘massively overweight’.
I know it’s been said, but 150 pounds is NOT massively overweight! I’m 5 feet 5 inches, have a petite frame, and at my very slimmest I was 115. And by slim I mean, people would frequently comment ‘you’re small!’ and (less frequently) say ‘you’re not going to get any smaller are you?’
I was a wee thing and yet there was only a 35lb difference between me and Roosh’s idea of ‘massively overweight’. I don’t think he knows ANYTHING about women’s physiology.
Hahahahahahahahahaha! No.
Hahahahahaha! No.
@Lea
I think Roosh would have tried to be the “renegade alpha wolf” that would go to other tribes to try and steal their women…and wind up getting lynched for it.
When I weighed about 160 (prior to pregnancy) my measurements were 36″ 24″ 38″.
Men aren’t attracted to that?
Tell it to these ladies:
http://weheartvintage.co/2013/04/04/so-what-size-was-marilyn-monroe-marilyns-other-movie-stars-measurements/
Meanwhile, 33% of people in my state are obese and fucking has not become less popular.
If you don’t like sex with fatties, cool. You don’t have to undermine other people’s self esteem for not tuning you on. That is creepy. The truth is, fat shamers are intimidated by happy fat folks. It isn’t that they have a sexual preference for another body type. It isn’t that they care about our health. That’s not what all the rage is about. The rage is in the fact that they see fat people as less deserving of happiness than they are. That’s why they seek to punish our happiness. It makes them feel like failures because they don’t have themselves as together as mere fatties.
I see the same sorts of envy turned aggression directed toward all kinds of marginalized people, especially by douche bags like Roosh. Racists and misogynists seethe in that kind of shame/resentment.
Men who are afraid of being seen with a fat women are afraid because to them women are an accessory to their manhood, like a flashy car. A woman’s beauty and submission (and they do see thinness as submission, whether it is or not.) is valuable because it enhances their status with other men.
A woman may not be into fat guys, but she hasn’t been taught to fear them the way men have been taught to fear fat women. Men are not objectified in the same way. Women are expected to appreciate the person within the body. Men like these don’t even think there is a person in a woman’s body.
A woman, not a women.
The 150 pounds thing is either Roosh revealing that he has no idea what actual women weigh (the “asshole pounds” thing — brilliant!) or Roosh revealing that he only wants to sleep with women who are a lot smaller than he is, and he assumes this is the default.
FYI,
IIRC, a while back OKCupid released some data showing that the two “metrics” most highly correlated to interest in a profile were Weight (on Woman’s Profiles) and Height (on Mens).
Unsurprisingly, it turns out that these variables appear to be the most “fudged” in self-reporting … at least as deduced by comparing the self-reported numbers of people on OKCupid to the known distributions of the US population.
Interestingly, they went on to show that being short for a man was apparently more negative than being overweight was for a woman. I forget the actual numbers, but it was something like that being 1 standard deviation below average height for a man was like being 1.5 standard deviations above average weight for a woman.
Pigs, elephants, hippos, manatees, cows, etc. are awesome. They are smart, beautiful, tough and powerful. Being compared to them does not hurt. I’d much rather resemble them than a rapist bigot.
Hippos kill more people than lions and tigers do combined. Heck, the hippopotamus is probably the third most dangerous creature in Africa, going by human fatalities. (The first two being mosquitoes, and other humans.) You do not want to get a hippopotamus angry. Lions aren’t stupid enough to try getting a hippopotamus angry.
Oz and Roosh on one stage. I’m surprised it didn’t collapse into a black hole of dangerous douchebaggery.