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Roosh V: seduced and abandoned by The Dr. Oz Show

Roosh faces off against Dr. Oz and his tan
Roosh faces off against Dr. Oz and his tan

So our old dear friend Roosh Valizadeh — the not-quite-Nazi pickup artist and rape legalization advocate — appeared on The Dr. Oz Show today. No, really.

Dr. Oz brought him on to elucidate the “fat shaming”campaign that he launched a couple of years ago to fight back against the women who torment him daily by being too big to please his boner. Apparently, at least in the eyes of Dr. Oz and his producers, Roosh is the “leader of the international fat shaming movement.”

Shockingly. neither Dr. Oz nor his mostly female studio audience were grateful for Roosh’s work on this front. Oz pointed out that fat shaming doesn’t work — all it really accomplishes is to make people feel shitty about themselves — and brought out a number of unapologetically fat women to confront him. Roosh responded by robotically repeating his talking points. (If you missed the show, you can watch a snippet of it here or read a recap here.)

In many ways more interesting than the show itself is Roosh’s reaction to it. In a blog post today, Roosh complains that he “was backstabbed by Dr. Oz and his female producers.”

As he tells it, these devious females sweet talked him to get him on the show, telling him what he wanted to hear and treating him “courteous[ly] and professional[ly].” On the day of the show, as they prepped him for his appearance, staffers

smiled at me and seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say about fat shaming, and one even went so far as to offer aid in obtaining the loose leaf green tea that I desired (I avoid bagged teas whenever possible). From the behavior they showed me, it was safe to assume that I was about to have an honest conversation about the obesity issue on mainstream American television.

And then Dr. Oz called him a “monster” on national TV, and made him talk to some fat women who didn’t much appreciate his “help.”

After his segment, Roosh reports, “[t]he backstage hands didn’t even look at me.”

Yep, that’s right. The proudly amoral “pickup artist” is complaining that he was seduced, used, and abandoned.

So what exactly did the mean Dr. Oz do to poor Mr. Valizadeh?

Here’s Roosh’s version of events:

I was ushered backstage and did a microphone test for the sound engineer. There were several monitors above where I could see the studio set. I looked up at one and saw Dr. Oz introducing me. I was preparing to go on the stage with a slight smile, but that notion quickly evaporated when I heard the word “monster” and “bringing him out from the shadows.” Instantly, I knew I was walking into a trap. I looked around, half hoping for a hug or some assurance that everything was going to be okay, but realized that the staff who were so cheery earlier knew all along that they were ushering me to a public execution. They sedated me with niceities so I would not be mentally prepared for what was about to happen.

I’m sorry, but my irony meter just burst into flames.

I shook Dr. Oz’s hand, the man who just called me a monster, out of instinct. The lights were bright but not in my face, making it hard to see the 200 people in the audience. I counted three cameras with teleprompters attached and didn’t know if I should look at them or not. My mouth suddenly felt dry.

Dr. Oz’s attack began by cherry picking the meanest quotes I’ve ever written and asking me to justify them. I got out my shovel, ready to work, but every time I climbed up the edge, Dr. Oz would push me back in by saying I was “screwed up” or offer some type of emotional outburst before wild applause by the audience. I have been to European soccer games with less emotion.

Having read a great deal of Mr. V’s writings over the past several years, I feel safe in saying that the quotes Dr. Oz read back to Roosh — that men would “rather die than have sex with a woman over 150 pounds,” that only ugly people and feminists think that beauty is on the inside — were not “the meanest quotes [he’s] ever written.” Not even close. Nor did Roosh’s segments on the show much resemble a soccer match — or even a Jerry Springer show. It was actually fairly tame, by daytime talk show standards.

I tried to take the conversation out of feelings and into logic by claiming that thin women are objectively more attractive and that obesity is causing huge public health problems, but they specifically wanted to focus on me and my “hatred” and all the feelings I’m hurting. The debate was framed in a way to not bring up facts that went against the party line.

Not really. Roosh was given a good deal of time in which he could have set forth his “facts.” He simply didn’t have any facts to report. Even aside from Roosh’s assholery, his entire “fat shaming” campaign is built upon a premise that numerous studies have found to be false; on the show, Roosh more or less admitted that he’s done precisely zero actual research on the issue.

After frothing up the audience to despise me, Dr. Oz initiated the two minutes of hate. He found the fattest women in the New York area and put them on steel reinforced seats to insult me as they wished. The crowd cheered and applauded after each fat woman gave her prepared diatribe. It was at this point I started examining the crowd of mostly women. I made eye contact with a few to see if they would stick their tongue out at me or wag their finger, but they didn’t. They were motionless mannequins that waited for the flashing studio light to give a response.

I’m not quite sure why Roosh expected women to stick their tongues out at him like three-year-olds, but whenever Oz’s producers cut to the audience, I didn’t see “motionless mannequins”; I saw women incredulous and disgusted by what he had to say. If anyone on the show appeared robotic, it was Roosh.

At one point, Roosh reports,

I looked at Dr. Oz and wondered if he would cap it all off by punching me. It would make for good television, at least.

Towards the end of his appearance, Roosh continues,.

I squeezed in a decent bit about how fat acceptance shortens everyone’s life spans, and I heard a gasp from somewhere as if what I said was shocking, and realized that my statement will probably be edited out.

Nope. It wasn’t. Again, Roosh had plenty of opportunity to present his case, such as it is; it’s not Dr. Oz’ fault that the “leader of the international fat shaming movement” didn’t have much of a case to present.

Which makes sense, because it’s blindingly obvious that Roosh doesn’t actually care about the well-being of fat women (or men); he just wants them to feel shitty.

Yet he still feels, somehow, that he is trying to save Western Civilization. Before he went on the show, he writes, he delivered the following monologue to a friend of his who went with him to the taping:

Hundreds of years ago, I would have been a soldier, fighting battles to defend my country against invaders, or invading another tribe to steal their women and land. But here I am, with makeup on my face, about to talk about fat people, because now the world values entertainment more than anything else. They want singers and actors and famous people to make them forget about their boring lives, and even women we meet want the same. I was given some type of ability by god or nature so that I am wanted here right now in this building during this strange time of humanity, and so I will use that ability, and give everyone their entertainment.

Sorry to break it to you, Roosh, but you’re not nearly as entertaining as you think you are.

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Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

I didn’t know that Dr. Oz was Turkish but I’m unsure why that bit was in the article.

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

Banana Jackie – that reminds me of the man who won lifetime access to a buffet restaurant (IIRC) and had it revoked because he kept harassing the hospitality staff. He was very upset to discover that they were only being friendly because it was their job, not because they genuinely wanted to make his boner happy.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Banana and Robert

You may enjoy this….

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

I did enjoy that. Immensely.

But now I want Chinese food…

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Banana

Ha, I used to go to that restaurant a lot too; the food is really good. It’s true what Phil Jupitus says about the place though.

I went there with a girlfriend. The layout is really long tables. My GF and I obviously aimed to sit opposite each other. As it happened we ended up a few seats out of place. I stood up to swap with the person now opposite my GF. One of the waiters saw me:

“What are you doing!”

“I’m just moving so I’m opposite my girlfriend”

“NO; you sit *there*!”

If you are hungry for Chinese food though it’s a good choice. Were we both in London I’d take you there just to experience the place (I suppose we’d have to split the bill to keep that vagina bus bloke happy)

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

@Jackie

I would bet that the bit about his ethnicity is there to explain his unusual-in-the-US first name.

@Bryce

I reckon I’m confused by what your point is. If a bunch of women get together and start a fat-acceptance movement, are they actually obligated to go out of their way to include Teh Menz? If so, why? Teh Menz are, last I checked, perfectly capable of putting together their own fat acceptance movement, and they would face fewer barriers to that. Is there some special reason why you think women need to work for men or they’re doing something wrong?

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

@Alan

Wow, that’s place is a little rude. XD Not sure why anyone would have to have designating seating in a restaurant, but, eh. Their place, their rules I guess? Although I don’t think we’d HAVE to split the bill since I’m assuming you don’t want sex after, but, hell, I’d have paid anyway.

@PoM

Okay, even if that is true, that’s just really superfluous at best. You really don’t HAVE to explain where names come from. I mean, what about all those weird names celebrities came up with a few years ago? When Apple or Denim or Diesel or whoever is in the paper, are their names going to be explained as “being born a millennial with excessively rich parents that don’t give a shit”?

Now, maybe if he WAS from Turkey, I could understand calling him Turkish, but he was born in Cleveland. (Yes, I look it up on his wiki to double check.) Like, I can understand Icelandic singer Bjork or English comedian Stephen Fry or American actor Will Smith (if the newspaper isnt from the Americas), but, you know, it just seems weird to include that much detail about him, especially since he was a very popular TV show and stuff, you know what I mean? It’s just unneeded.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

@Jackie

I’m not saying it’s a good reason, or that they should have done that. I’m just saying that I bet that was the thought process behind it.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

If PUA game actually worked – if PUAs were masters of the art and science of human persuasion, as they claim – imagine how they would excel in areas other than dating. They’d be natural salesmen, for sure. They’d do very well at politics, law, and in the acting profession. They’d be formidable debaters. And yet, what does Roosh do? When given the opportunity to exercise those awesome powers in an interview, he gets his unwiped arse handed to him by a quack, and whines about it like a big baby. It’s almost as if his skills aren’t all that.

It’s almost as if PUAs in general aren’t all that.

Aaaaand whaddya know.

PS to Josh: A good self-fucking is the only sex you’re entitled to, EVER. Why has that not sunk through your thick skull yet?

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

@PoM

I know you weren’t. That really wasn’t directed at you, it’s just if that was their reasoning, it’s stupid and then I put examples on where I think that would be acceptable. I don’t think it really was their reasoning, especially since I found all these articles right off the back that have his full name and state nothing about him being Turkish (I did a quick page scan and a page search), even one from Fox News. FOX NEWS.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2015/04/27/at-least-1000-doctors-say-dr-oz-should-resign/

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/27/john_olivers_glorious_dr_oz_takedown_you_are_the_worst_person_in_scrubs_who_has_ever_been_on_television_including_katherine_heigl/

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/27/opinions/vox-dr-oz-critics/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnlamattina/2015/04/27/dr-oz-the-surgeon-general-and-public-health/

http://qz.com/392328/dr-oz-is-popular-because-the-truth-is-boring/

http://www.medicaldaily.com/dr-oz-backlash-grows-more-1000-doctors-pushing-his-resignation-331074

http://time.com/3838833/david-lynch-dr-oz/

When FOX NEWS doesn’t state that someone is Turkish or not, you know that it’s off topic.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Banana

I’m happy to pay in restaurants but you’d still be under no obligation. The only thing I’d ask is, that if you do want chips just say so (per my previous post 🙂 ). Although they don’t do chips in Won Kei’s anyway.

ИВАН ГРОЗНЫЙ
ИВАН ГРОЗНЫЙ
5 years ago

The demographic at watches Dr. Oz is fat women so naturally he appeals to them to make more money. However, Roosh brings up a good point in that the US has too many fat people. As a Russian I found it astounding how many there are here. It is a problem that needs to be handled.

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

I thought it was weird that you’d bring up chips (or “freedom fries” as foreigners think we changed french fries to). Because I don’t think Chinese restaurant would have those. Maybe a Chinese buffet in the US but not the UK. I know a Chinese buffet place that does decent sushi, whole baby octopus, pizza and tacos if you’re interested. Nothing more American, IMO, than a Chinese restaurant that has all you can eat tacos.

Although fish and chips sounds really good though. (That was also something that Chinese buffet place had.) Little bit of tartar sauce to go with it. Tartar sauce on fries is delicious, doubly so when they’ve had a sprinkling of vinegar on ’em. Oh, and especially is the tartar sauce as dill in it. With BEER batter cod. Nom nom nom.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

If you want to watch the rest of Doosh’s grilling on Oz, check out these (one minute) clips:
http://www.donotlink.com/exjo

Unfortunately, they are from the RP reddit (while there, see how the deluded Roosh’s fans proclaim his victory — well, sort of, when they are not bemoaning his “autistic” behavior unbecoming of the alpha leader of their movement, or whatever they consider it).

@Josh:

lolwut?

How is it possible that you fail to understand how the human life works? Raised by wolves? (with apologies to wolves)

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

@Policy of Madness

I just don’t see how gender is the primary factor in this particular issue; the discrimination overweight men encounter is similar if not identical to that which women suffer. The gender of individuals shouldn’t preclude them from taking part or having their experiences acknowledged.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Rofl, you are one fatty yourself everything you say = invalid. Too much bias.

But being thin is not a bias? Hmmm… Might want to think on that one a bit. Ponder it in your heart until self awareness sets in. You’ll be glad you did.

Also, being fat does not make facts change. Facts don;t have a bias. Doosh isn’t just a shithead. He’s a shithead who is massively wrong.

Josh,
We know how causal sex works, Sparky. That is not the point. Use your noggin. Read very slowly un-til you can un-der-stand what you are read-ing.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Bias =/= lived experiences. It’s kinda like Creationists claiming scientists have a bias because they actually know how the fuck things work.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

It is a problem that needs to be handled.

Why is it a problem?

@Bryce

I just don’t see how gender is the primary factor in this particular issue; the discrimination overweight men encounter is similar if not identical to that which women suffer.

That’s not even remotely true. Fat women make a certain, significant proportion of men angry. Men may encounter pity, contempt, and/or the related assumption that they are morally bankrupt. Women encounter all of those things, and in addition they encounter men who feel like a fat woman is a personal insult to them and who react with sometimes violent anger about it.

But even if your statement were true, I still fail to see why you think women are doing it wrong if they aren’t working for men as well as for themselves and other women. I will tell you what it looks like from here: entitlement. I’m sure that’s not how you see it or intend it, but that’s what it looks like from where I’m sitting. It looks like you feel entitled to women’s labor, and you’re offended that women are doing something that does not directly (but absolutely does indirectly) benefit you.

That’s how “what about Teh Menz” always comes across, and why that phrase exists. Sometimes men’s issues are important, but not within the mission statement of what women are doing. Women are not obligated to extend their missions to include men every time it would be possible to do that. That’s not any different from demanding that organizations working for African Americans also think about the white people, or demanding that gay groups include straight people in their initiatives. Sure, African American groups could extend their missions to include whites, but why on earth would you expect them to do that? Similarly, why on earth do you expect women to fold in men every single time?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I admit that I don’t follow the fat acceptance movement super closely. Are the women in it actually excluding fat men? Making them feel unwelcome? I guess I don’t understand what’s stopping men who wish to be active in FA from doing so.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

The demographic at watches Dr. Oz is fat women so naturally he appeals to them to make more money.

Citation or get the fuck out. Hawking snale oil diet crap does not appeal of fat women. Trust me. We’ve seen it. It and all it’s fad diet, self-torture bullshit buddies can fuck off and so can you.

However, Roosh brings up a good point

That has never been true ever. Ever.

Ever.

the US has too many fat people. As a Russian I found it astounding how many there are here. It is a problem that needs to be handled.

It isn’t my problem that my body makes you have funny feels. It’s yours. The way you feel about my body? You need to “handle” your boner problems.

…and by that I mean quite sincerely that you should go fuck yourself.

Meanwhile, dear Russian in the US, are you old enough to remember how often the US made fun of your countrymen and insinuated the inferiority of your culture? I am. Russian women were shown as dumpy, frumpy, fatties or “mannish” women. The comparisons made between Jackie Kennedy and Nina Khrushchev after her visit to the White House were cruel and meant to shame. Do you not feel remotely strange doing the same thing to American women?

Or did you think you invented this tactic?

I bet you did.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Insulting an entire culture by saying “Your women are ugly!” is so standard.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

I admit that I don’t follow the fat acceptance movement super closely. Are the women in it actually excluding fat men? Making them feel unwelcome? I guess I don’t understand what’s stopping men who wish to be active in FA from doing so.

Not that I’ve seen, but FA folks don’t really talk about men. They talk about women, and how fat women face discrimination, and how skinny women are also harmed by fat shaming. Men just don’t enter the conversation, but nothing I’ve seen is stopping them from having a conversation of their own.

chroniclurker
chroniclurker
5 years ago

ИВАН ГРОЗНЫЙ, (“Ivan the Terrible” through google translate? really dude? Is Ivan Grozny really that hard to type?)

Hard to say that Dr. Oz “appeals” to fat women when he pushes so much fatshaming pseudo science, just saying.

“As a Russian,” I’m surprised that you are so invested in the waist size of Americans. Seriously, why do you give a fuck?

And even if there is an obesity problem in America, so what? That doesn’t give people like Roosh (or people like YOU for that matter) license to bully people on account of their weight.

And as a person who has been severely UNDERweight at one point, I can tell you, Roosh has no idea what he is talking about. He is however, a total-shit head who deserves every bit of mockery and humiliation thrown at him.

jy3
jy3
5 years ago
Reply to  chroniclurker

Jeez, where’d the brigade come from? Who posted this where?

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

Funny, when I went to Russia I saw how thin everyone was and then they explained to me that I couldn’t have friends over too often because feeding them was too expensive.

All was explained. Suddenly fatness didn’t seem quite so very bad as “not being able to eat food because no money.” That was a middle class family by their standards; here that would be lower class/poverty level – no car, apartment from the 1970s, no sidewalks or grass, rusted-out playgrounds, no water that was safe to drink (we boiled it all).

I learned a lot in Russia.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

So, does Nielsen track size demographics of television viewers? I’m going to go out on a limb and say no. How does the troll know whether or not Dr. Oz viewers are fat? Especially if he’s in another country?

Lanariel
Lanariel
5 years ago

@ИВАН ГРОЗНЫЙ

Lets for a moment ignore the the need for facts and treat your writing as holy truth. (the mental exercise will come in handy for understanding 4- and 5 dimensional spaces.)

If he has to defend fat women, since they are his audience, should we not then congratulate him to find an actual human with such strawman like arguments to debate on his show? Cause you now Capitalism and ‘murica?

And now pointing things out and suggesting things that don’t work is considered good points? (Fast there are to many stars in the night sky, lets all try to shoot them with bows and arrows! Am I playing right?)

And if it truly is a problem that needs to be handled, should we not go with the method that has the larger amount of chance for success, or are suddenly the ideas of logic and rigorous scientific practices worthless?

At last, if there are too many fat people, is it not just once more just good business sense to market to your audience? If the ratio continues to increase, witch seems to be the point of some of Doosh’s comments, does it not just follow from evo-psych that the dudes that are in to that will have more sex, and become the new chads and alphas? (I would like to ask for forgiveness from the furrinati for applying logic to evo-psych, they will never meet again)

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Funny, when I went to Russia I saw how thin everyone was and then they explained to me that I couldn’t have friends over too often because feeding them was too expensive.

All was explained. Suddenly fatness didn’t seem quite so very bad as “not being able to eat food because no money.” That was a middle class family by their standards; here that would be lower class/poverty level – no car, apartment from the 1970s, no sidewalks or grass, rusted-out playgrounds, no water that was safe to drink (we boiled it all).

I learned a lot in Russia.

And yet, our troll “Ivan Grozniy”, if that is in fact his name, even though he claims to be Russian, isn’t aware of that.

A rather striking omission on your part, “Ivan”.

M.
M.
5 years ago

(Has Bryce posted before or not? I can’t tell if he’s here in good faith or just WATM concern trolling.)

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

@M.

Pretty sure Bryce has posted here before in good faith, which makes it surprising.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

I am presuming good faith.

ktrantingredhead
5 years ago

Wow, you know you’re up shit creek when the king of misinformation and phony research calls you out…..

jaygee
jaygee
5 years ago

Just read the OP. I had skimmed the title thought the worse: that Dr. Oz was giving Roosh a platform and endorsement for his vile fat-shaming message. Thank goodness it turned out not to be the case.

Reading Roosh’s account of things, it seems he has a simplistic and warped view of human interaction. He seemed to think if people act professionally and treat him with basic respect, they must agree with his points of view. I mean, there are tons of people (feminists included) who can respectfully disagree with someone. Is this really so alien to him?

Now to read these comments.

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

@policy of madness

I agree there are a number of issues that so overwhelmingly affect women that the representation of men within the discussion is unwelcome, but I’m not sure that must apply here, why there should be separate entities for men and women… why the presence of men means women will be undermined, silenced etc. as if there were some sort of empathy deficit between the sexes.

If an organization exists to counter a form of discrimination, shouldn’t it then acknowledge anyone encountering said discrimination? Unless, that is, they choose to add a clause within their mission statement/organization goals making it clear who they represent. None of the fat acceptance organizations do that (explicitly state that they are run for and by women), which implies that fat discrimination is only a problem for women.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

@Aunt Edna

The Reddit TeRPers never fail to impress (themselves).

wish roosh was a lawyer. I was sitting there rattling off fallacies. I’d just talk over Oz and aggressively talk him into a corner. Argument to popularity. Confirmation Bias. If you believe this is a fair sample size of 200 dollars you never should have been licensed to be a doctor, becuase you’re a fucking retard

I’m guessing this poster isn’t a lawyer either because you won’t actually win any arguments with real people simply barking out what you think are fallacies. It works wonders against imaginary straw females though.

He must be blast in real life.

“Hey, I’ve heard this new Thai place is really great, my friends have been raving about it.”

“Argument to popularity! Appeal to novelty!”

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

If an organization exists to counter a form of discrimination, shouldn’t it then acknowledge anyone encountering said discrimination? Unless, that is, they choose to add a clause within their mission statement/organization goals making it clear who they represent. None of the fat acceptance organizations do that (explicitly state that they are run for and by women), which implies that fat discrimination is only a problem for women.

@Bryce
Are there actual formal “fat acceptance organizations” with staffs, budgets, legal staus etc?

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

I know there are groups that meet up, and there are online places you can go to.

I don’t know about the ones with staffs, budgets, and all that jazz though.

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

Bryce, this is starting to smack of ‘why won’t you feminists work on men’s issues?! Misandry!!’ This is a valuable discussion but in the wrong place. There are a number of fat acceptance forums where this discussion would lead to more action.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

If the fat acceptance movement is made up of online forums, websites and meet-ups then men can easily take part and start to make their voices heard. Bryce seems to be criticizing the policies of organizations that don’t exist.

As far as I can tell, there aren’t any fat acceptance movement versions of big influential well-funded groups like the HRC or NOW, where the lack of broad representation can lead to ongoing problems.

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

I wish I could retract my last comment. There are a about 4 fat acceptance organizations (including NAAFA, Health at any Size) , but from what I can tell they don’t focus primarily on women’s experiences.

I was drawing from statements by individuals, within forums, blogs etc., assuming they were somehow representative of those groups.

Guess that puts the ASS in assumption, doesn’t it ;//

Apologies.

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

*Health at Any Size.. *slinks away*

David
David
5 years ago

So Roosh can’t take the treatment he gives to women. It seems he does have feelings, and doesn’t operate only on the basis of his perverted logic. He appeared fairly controlled on the show, but then writes his response, because he feels he was not heard.

Luzbelitx
5 years ago

why the presence of men means women will be undermined, silenced etc. as if there were some sort of empathy deficit between the sexes.

Beacuse there IS some sort of empathy deficit.

That’s why violence against women is usually met with victim blaming or sheer indifference.

That’s why victims of violence are told to “get over” stuff that needs to be processed and healed.

Women are denied the right to be treated as human beings every day, mostly by men but sometimes women as well.

There IS an empathy deficit.

Just like there is a wage gap, there is an “emotional gap” in how men and women are allowed to experience their feelings and their relationships with others.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

I’ve had a tumultuous relationship with the fat acceptance movement. I was a fan. Then I was not. Now I think it’s great.

I took issue is that some FA folks will tell you that trying to lose weight takes away your “radness” and that it is never good for you. There are reasons to watch your weight. Some people do have hobbies, health issues or even just issues with their body that they are in the process of working out. I don’t like telling people that they have to love their body as is because I think you should be able to do whatever you want with your bod and you can’t really control how you feel about something. If shaming does what it is intended to do and makes you insecure, you’re still rad. You’re still surviving in a world that hates you. Maybe your coping mechanism isn’t the best, but you do what you do to get through.

I hate that “real woman” crap too.

I’m noticing that all of those issues are getting worked out within that movement. I’m so glad. The world needs fat acceptance.

Thin women need fat acceptance. When my daughter was on ADD meds she had no appetite. She was so skinny that I cried. It was dangerous for her to get sick because she couldn’t afford to lose any weight. That was when the schools were starting to only have skim milk, only have margarine, started telling the kids how important staying thin was, how some foods were “bad foods” etc. When I complained that my daughter needed higher calorie food because she could not eat much and she refused to drink Boost (because it tastes nasty.) I was told that the school was “trying to save these kids lives!”. >.<

(Sometimes I forget how much I love homeschool. Then I remember this stuff.)

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

I took issue is that?

I almost spelled “shaming” “ahming” and that last “almost” “amolst” . Dyslexia is working overtime today. In general I’m having trouble braining this week.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

@Bryce

I was drawing from statements by individuals, within forums, blogs etc., assuming they were somehow representative of those groups.

I still think you don’t quite get it. Women – even women on forums and blogs – are not obligated to speak for men, even though they could. It’s entitlement that leads from “you could work for me if you want” to “you should work for me and it’s morally suspect that you aren’t.” Just as no woman is obligated to have sex with any man, no woman is obligated to dedicate her labor toward men. Yes, that applies even when there is overlap between a woman’s problem and a man’s problem.

What exactly is stopping you from working on the problem of fat discrimination against men? Why do you expect women to dedicate their limited time, energy and other resources directly to you? Note that promoting fat acceptance for women has indirect benefits for men, but you expect more than incidental help. You want direct, targeted help, and every hour that a woman dedicates toward directly giving you targeted help is an hour she is not helping herself. Time and energy are not unlimited.

I can’t speak for where this is coming from with you personally, but societally there is an expectation that women exist to help men, and if they aren’t helping men then they’re doing something wrong. This is incorrect, and I’m going to push back against anything that forwards that meme. Women don’t have to help men, and it’s not morally wrong for a woman to focus entirely on herself or on other women. Yes, the women on whatever blog or forum you were visiting could use their energy talking about fat men, but there’s no moral bankruptcy in the fact that they aren’t.

PussyPowerTantrum, the Lousy Flouncer
PussyPowerTantrum, the Lousy Flouncer
5 years ago

@dhag85 Thank you! *feels loved*

@Bryce Good on you, it takes a big person to admit mistakes. (…No pun.) As PoM pointed out, maybe it would be helpful to examine your assumptions on this. I mean if individual women in FA excluded or silenced men that is indeed their problem and they should be called out on it. OTOH it wasn’t entirely clear to me from your comments this was the case, though if there’s evidence for male exclusion I’d be interested in hearing that too.

Hector Andres Ochoa
5 years ago

How else do [fatties] want to hear it? They sit on their ass while they should be working out. It’s obvious they have issues, beyond just mental, it’s their physical health. You’re fat, loose some weight!

hippiefreak
hippiefreak
5 years ago

Women are a cash cow for the economy. The public secret is that it is easy to separate women from their money. Big Business knows they can tell women what they want to hear and the cash rolls in. It is profitable to tell women anything that does not make them upset. Roosh makes them upset. Big Business sells women fat pills. One slips under women’s radar. One doesn’t.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
5 years ago

I used to be fat when I was younger it was a nightmare but as I got older I’m a lot skinner you can see my bones, I weigh at 106 now. I need to work out and eat more but other than that I I’m cool. 🙂

Hector Andres Ochoa
It’s a lot harder than it looks and some people don’t want to lose weight they love being fat and being an fatophobic a-hole doesn’t help.

Hippiefreak
We’re not stupid but yes the media tries to smash women and girls self esteem as much as possible to sell us stuff.