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antifeminism boner rage dark enlightenment evil fat fatties grandiosity men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny red pill rhymes with roosh schadenfreude

Roosh V: seduced and abandoned by The Dr. Oz Show

Roosh faces off against Dr. Oz and his tan
Roosh faces off against Dr. Oz and his tan

So our old dear friend Roosh Valizadeh — the not-quite-Nazi pickup artist and rape legalization advocate — appeared on The Dr. Oz Show today. No, really.

Dr. Oz brought him on to elucidate the “fat shaming”campaign that he launched a couple of years ago to fight back against the women who torment him daily by being too big to please his boner. Apparently, at least in the eyes of Dr. Oz and his producers, Roosh is the “leader of the international fat shaming movement.”

Shockingly. neither Dr. Oz nor his mostly female studio audience were grateful for Roosh’s work on this front. Oz pointed out that fat shaming doesn’t work — all it really accomplishes is to make people feel shitty about themselves — and brought out a number of unapologetically fat women to confront him. Roosh responded by robotically repeating his talking points. (If you missed the show, you can watch a snippet of it here or read a recap here.)

In many ways more interesting than the show itself is Roosh’s reaction to it. In a blog post today, Roosh complains that he “was backstabbed by Dr. Oz and his female producers.”

As he tells it, these devious females sweet talked him to get him on the show, telling him what he wanted to hear and treating him “courteous[ly] and professional[ly].” On the day of the show, as they prepped him for his appearance, staffers

smiled at me and seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say about fat shaming, and one even went so far as to offer aid in obtaining the loose leaf green tea that I desired (I avoid bagged teas whenever possible). From the behavior they showed me, it was safe to assume that I was about to have an honest conversation about the obesity issue on mainstream American television.

And then Dr. Oz called him a “monster” on national TV, and made him talk to some fat women who didn’t much appreciate his “help.”

After his segment, Roosh reports, “[t]he backstage hands didn’t even look at me.”

Yep, that’s right. The proudly amoral “pickup artist” is complaining that he was seduced, used, and abandoned.

So what exactly did the mean Dr. Oz do to poor Mr. Valizadeh?

Here’s Roosh’s version of events:

I was ushered backstage and did a microphone test for the sound engineer. There were several monitors above where I could see the studio set. I looked up at one and saw Dr. Oz introducing me. I was preparing to go on the stage with a slight smile, but that notion quickly evaporated when I heard the word “monster” and “bringing him out from the shadows.” Instantly, I knew I was walking into a trap. I looked around, half hoping for a hug or some assurance that everything was going to be okay, but realized that the staff who were so cheery earlier knew all along that they were ushering me to a public execution. They sedated me with niceities so I would not be mentally prepared for what was about to happen.

I’m sorry, but my irony meter just burst into flames.

I shook Dr. Oz’s hand, the man who just called me a monster, out of instinct. The lights were bright but not in my face, making it hard to see the 200 people in the audience. I counted three cameras with teleprompters attached and didn’t know if I should look at them or not. My mouth suddenly felt dry.

Dr. Oz’s attack began by cherry picking the meanest quotes I’ve ever written and asking me to justify them. I got out my shovel, ready to work, but every time I climbed up the edge, Dr. Oz would push me back in by saying I was “screwed up” or offer some type of emotional outburst before wild applause by the audience. I have been to European soccer games with less emotion.

Having read a great deal of Mr. V’s writings over the past several years, I feel safe in saying that the quotes Dr. Oz read back to Roosh — that men would “rather die than have sex with a woman over 150 pounds,” that only ugly people and feminists think that beauty is on the inside — were not “the meanest quotes [he’s] ever written.” Not even close. Nor did Roosh’s segments on the show much resemble a soccer match — or even a Jerry Springer show. It was actually fairly tame, by daytime talk show standards.

I tried to take the conversation out of feelings and into logic by claiming that thin women are objectively more attractive and that obesity is causing huge public health problems, but they specifically wanted to focus on me and my “hatred” and all the feelings I’m hurting. The debate was framed in a way to not bring up facts that went against the party line.

Not really. Roosh was given a good deal of time in which he could have set forth his “facts.” He simply didn’t have any facts to report. Even aside from Roosh’s assholery, his entire “fat shaming” campaign is built upon a premise that numerous studies have found to be false; on the show, Roosh more or less admitted that he’s done precisely zero actual research on the issue.

After frothing up the audience to despise me, Dr. Oz initiated the two minutes of hate. He found the fattest women in the New York area and put them on steel reinforced seats to insult me as they wished. The crowd cheered and applauded after each fat woman gave her prepared diatribe. It was at this point I started examining the crowd of mostly women. I made eye contact with a few to see if they would stick their tongue out at me or wag their finger, but they didn’t. They were motionless mannequins that waited for the flashing studio light to give a response.

I’m not quite sure why Roosh expected women to stick their tongues out at him like three-year-olds, but whenever Oz’s producers cut to the audience, I didn’t see “motionless mannequins”; I saw women incredulous and disgusted by what he had to say. If anyone on the show appeared robotic, it was Roosh.

At one point, Roosh reports,

I looked at Dr. Oz and wondered if he would cap it all off by punching me. It would make for good television, at least.

Towards the end of his appearance, Roosh continues,.

I squeezed in a decent bit about how fat acceptance shortens everyone’s life spans, and I heard a gasp from somewhere as if what I said was shocking, and realized that my statement will probably be edited out.

Nope. It wasn’t. Again, Roosh had plenty of opportunity to present his case, such as it is; it’s not Dr. Oz’ fault that the “leader of the international fat shaming movement” didn’t have much of a case to present.

Which makes sense, because it’s blindingly obvious that Roosh doesn’t actually care about the well-being of fat women (or men); he just wants them to feel shitty.

Yet he still feels, somehow, that he is trying to save Western Civilization. Before he went on the show, he writes, he delivered the following monologue to a friend of his who went with him to the taping:

Hundreds of years ago, I would have been a soldier, fighting battles to defend my country against invaders, or invading another tribe to steal their women and land. But here I am, with makeup on my face, about to talk about fat people, because now the world values entertainment more than anything else. They want singers and actors and famous people to make them forget about their boring lives, and even women we meet want the same. I was given some type of ability by god or nature so that I am wanted here right now in this building during this strange time of humanity, and so I will use that ability, and give everyone their entertainment.

Sorry to break it to you, Roosh, but you’re not nearly as entertaining as you think you are.

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Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Hugs to you, Lanariel!

I’m still stuck on “wait, Oz was actually criticizing fat-shaming????”

I think it was an attempt to make his own quackery seem more reasonable by comparison. You know, “Fat-shaming is morally terrible and proven to be counterproductive…but folks, here’s something that really works!”

That’s yet another irony: Roosh himself unwittingly being used as clickbait, to drum up audience outrage. He’s always gleefully reporting on some imaginary freakish behavior that’s undermining Western civilization, and telling his readers they need to ostracize such people. Then the moment he goes onto mainstream media, suddenly he’s the freak, he’s the one being shunned for outlandish behavior. It’s a heartwarming sight, and restores one’s faith in humanity a little, even if Oz’s motives for inviting Roosh on the show may not have been pure.

Lanariel
Lanariel
5 years ago

Thank you everyone for the hugs, you guys just kinda made my day 🙂

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago
Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

@Kootiepatra @M

I guess the reasons are obvious.

One thing.. differing societal expectation, doesn’t necessarily mean than women are any more accepting of obesity in a potential partner than men ie. that dating is going to be easier for a large guy. Not that that’s really relevant to the topic of fat shaming.

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

Darn. Grammar/spelling fail.

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

The whole fat women vs fat men dating thing always makes me think of these videos.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Bryce,
Eh. I don’t know about that. I bet if you went through dating profiles you’d see a whole lot more men requesting no fatties than women. I’d be willing to bet that men are more likely to dump women over a weight gain than the reverse too. I don’t know if there’s research on this, but just anecdotally it seems like men are much more into thinness as a demand than women. Just in general.

The whole fat sitcom husband with thin conventionally attractive wife trope would certainly seem to back those cultural preferences up. Women are socialized to look past appearance. Men aren’t. Having a beautiful wife or girlfriend is the ultimate status symbol for men.

Freedom Geek
Freedom Geek
5 years ago

I’m generally opposed to Dr Oz due to the amount of pseudo-science he promotes but good on him in this instance I suppose. I still agree with the doctors saying he should be kicked out of his university position though.

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

I do not necessarily think that because men are more open and obvious about fat hate that it necessarily follows that women don’t fat hate. I think it’s more a symptom of patriarchy again; men are just more used to their tastes being catered to and so are more willing to state their tastes outright, especially when that taste is encouraged by society as fat hate so often is.

…I hope that makes sense, I just woke up heh.

Inside The University of Melbourne

Rofl, you are one fatty yourself everything you say = invalid. Too much bias.

Ellesar
Ellesar
5 years ago

I do not know what Dr Oz is and have no interest in finding out, but if Roosh really expected that he would be treated with love and respect from the media, *considering what his output consists of*, he really is a total idiot.

Don’t put out hate if you don’t want to get hate back, RooshV.

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

@isidore – It seems like women are taught to avoid openly stating their preferences – if they want to be considered caring and decent that is – so much so that it seems like appearance isn’t much of a factor, when in all likelihood, it is.

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

@bryce – patriarchy sucks, doesn’t it? Men are rewarded for shallowness, women punished, in other words. So shallowness as a trait is something men are more willing to publicly indulge in.

But back to your original query, I do think that women are more engaged with fat acceptance than men, as someone said, and therefore it addresses men’s issues less. The solution for that is for more men to start engaging with fat acceptance in concert with women.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Watched a bit of the clip. Roosh responds to the “Men would rather die than sleep with a woman over 150lb” line by saying the ‘men he knows’ don’t want to sleep with a woman who is ‘massively overweight’.

I know it’s been said, but 150 pounds is NOT massively overweight! I’m 5 feet 5 inches, have a petite frame, and at my very slimmest I was 115. And by slim I mean, people would frequently comment ‘you’re small!’ and (less frequently) say ‘you’re not going to get any smaller are you?’

I was a wee thing and yet there was only a 35lb difference between me and Roosh’s idea of ‘massively overweight’. I don’t think he knows ANYTHING about women’s physiology.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Hundreds of years ago, I would have been a soldier, fighting battles to defend my country against invaders, or invading another tribe to steal their women and land.

Hahahahahahahahahaha! No.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

men would “rather die than have sex with a woman over 150 pounds,”

Hahahahahaha! No.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

@Lea
I think Roosh would have tried to be the “renegade alpha wolf” that would go to other tribes to try and steal their women…and wind up getting lynched for it.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

When I weighed about 160 (prior to pregnancy) my measurements were 36″ 24″ 38″.

Men aren’t attracted to that?

Tell it to these ladies:
http://weheartvintage.co/2013/04/04/so-what-size-was-marilyn-monroe-marilyns-other-movie-stars-measurements/

Meanwhile, 33% of people in my state are obese and fucking has not become less popular.
If you don’t like sex with fatties, cool. You don’t have to undermine other people’s self esteem for not tuning you on. That is creepy. The truth is, fat shamers are intimidated by happy fat folks. It isn’t that they have a sexual preference for another body type. It isn’t that they care about our health. That’s not what all the rage is about. The rage is in the fact that they see fat people as less deserving of happiness than they are. That’s why they seek to punish our happiness. It makes them feel like failures because they don’t have themselves as together as mere fatties.

I see the same sorts of envy turned aggression directed toward all kinds of marginalized people, especially by douche bags like Roosh. Racists and misogynists seethe in that kind of shame/resentment.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Men who are afraid of being seen with a fat women are afraid because to them women are an accessory to their manhood, like a flashy car. A woman’s beauty and submission (and they do see thinness as submission, whether it is or not.) is valuable because it enhances their status with other men.

A woman may not be into fat guys, but she hasn’t been taught to fear them the way men have been taught to fear fat women. Men are not objectified in the same way. Women are expected to appreciate the person within the body. Men like these don’t even think there is a person in a woman’s body.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

A woman, not a women.

McJulie McGalliard (@mcjulie)

The 150 pounds thing is either Roosh revealing that he has no idea what actual women weigh (the “asshole pounds” thing — brilliant!) or Roosh revealing that he only wants to sleep with women who are a lot smaller than he is, and he assumes this is the default.

maghavan
maghavan
5 years ago

I bet if you went through dating profiles you’d see a whole lot more men requesting no fatties than women. I’d be willing to bet that men are more likely to dump women over a weight gain than the reverse too. I don’t know if there’s research on this, but just anecdotally it seems like men are much more into thinness as a demand than women. Just in general.

FYI,
IIRC, a while back OKCupid released some data showing that the two “metrics” most highly correlated to interest in a profile were Weight (on Woman’s Profiles) and Height (on Mens).
Unsurprisingly, it turns out that these variables appear to be the most “fudged” in self-reporting … at least as deduced by comparing the self-reported numbers of people on OKCupid to the known distributions of the US population.

Interestingly, they went on to show that being short for a man was apparently more negative than being overweight was for a woman. I forget the actual numbers, but it was something like that being 1 standard deviation below average height for a man was like being 1.5 standard deviations above average weight for a woman.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Pigs, elephants, hippos, manatees, cows, etc. are awesome. They are smart, beautiful, tough and powerful. Being compared to them does not hurt. I’d much rather resemble them than a rapist bigot.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
5 years ago

Pigs, elephants, hippos, manatees, cows, etc. are awesome. They are smart, beautiful, tough and powerful.

Hippos kill more people than lions and tigers do combined. Heck, the hippopotamus is probably the third most dangerous creature in Africa, going by human fatalities. (The first two being mosquitoes, and other humans.) You do not want to get a hippopotamus angry. Lions aren’t stupid enough to try getting a hippopotamus angry.

Tabby Lavalamp
5 years ago

Oz and Roosh on one stage. I’m surprised it didn’t collapse into a black hole of dangerous douchebaggery.

freemage
5 years ago

Bryce: One reason that the anti-fat-shaming movement is so heavily woman-dominated is that fat-shaming tends to come in two varieties:

1: Gender-neutral, which just berates all fat people equally.
2: Gender-targeted, which focuses entirely on women.

Men aren’t specifically berated for being overweight the way women are. Furthermore, from what I’ve seen (as a guy who is fat by any reasonable standard), most men get away with being far heavier than women before they get hit with the category 1 stuff, even. And of course, a lot of the pseudoscience used to back up fat-shaming (like BMI) tends to be slanted against women’s physiology, specifically.

As for the whole focus on thinness being recent, I also remember that when Kate Moss first hit the magazine ads, there was ample body-shaming directed at her for being too thin. (I seem to recall that being the point where “heroin chic” became a popular term.) Prior to that point, Cindy Crawford was considered the beauty ideal, and while not as large as Marylin Monroe, she was still genuinely curvy.

bodycrimes
5 years ago

If I didn’t know better, I’d think Roosh was… an attention whore!

Josh
Josh
5 years ago

“Yep, that’s right. The proudly amoral “pickup artist” is complaining that he was seduced, used, and abandoned”

Men have absolutely zero obligations to a woman after he has had consensual sex with her. Absolutely zero. No obligations to make a phone call, or to remember her name, or to seeing her again, or to say “hello how are you” if they cross each other on the street.

How is it possible that you continuosly fail to understand this?

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

Do you often miss the point of things you read Josh? I’m guessing you do.

dhag85
5 years ago

@Josh

Oh, you are precious. I’m just gonna watch them rip you apart. 🙂

katz
5 years ago

Luckily women have absolutely zero obligation to have sex with Josh in the first place.

Mathieu Tremblay
5 years ago

When even Dr Oz calls you out on your bullshit, you should know how low you’ve just gone.

With that in mind, I can’t stop laughing.

M.
M.
5 years ago

My grandma makes really good celery soup.

… Oh, I’m sorry, Josh made me think we were posting random non sequiturs.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

“Women have absolutely zero obligations to a man have she has him pay for a consensual date. Absolutely zero. No obligations to give him her phone number, or to sleep with him, or to date him again, or to respond to the three-dozen desperate texts from him calling her a bitch.”

Somehow I don’t think Josh would quite agree with this version…

Sofia van der Linde
5 years ago

Roosh’s intonation reminds me of Tommy Wiseau’s.

“Every year women were getting larger and larger… it has to be stopped.. in some way”

Watch Dr Oz tearing into Roosh and then rewatch the Room or the Nostalgia Critic’s review of the room. Hilarious!

freemage
5 years ago

Josh:

Congratulations on posting a textbook non sequitur. I’m sure your teacher will be proud of you completing that assignment.

What’s that? You’re not a fourth-grader trying to demonstrate a logical fallacy as part of a class project? Well, in that case, please feel free to fuck off with all the fucks, and step on a Lego on your way out.

advancedatheist
advancedatheist
5 years ago

Michelle Obama has made it her project as the current First Lady to fight the epidemic of childhood obesity in the U.S. I guess that makes her a fat-shaming troll as well

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

@Josh, be specific, who are you talking to who said anything against which this is a valid argument?

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Men have absolutely zero obligations to a woman after he has had consensual sex with her. Absolutely zero. No obligations to make a phone call, or to remember her name, or to seeing her again, or to say “hello how are you” if they cross each other on the street.

Are your attempts at sex that embarrassing and miserable, Josh, that they have to be stricken from the historical record forever?

Or are you just trying to claim that men have a right never to experience any annoyance, inconvenience, or hassle in the pursuit of their sacred nut? Because if you’re not able to navigate the most goddamn basic kindergarten aspects of human relationships, such as mutual consent, reciprocity, and consideration, then you’re not mature enough to be having sex.

odaran
odaran
5 years ago

Dr. Oz using Roosh to try to regain some reputation, Roosh using him back to gain more visability and expand. They need each other.
Isn’t he doing a tour soon?

Remember Julien Blanc? His business hasn’t suffered much, so it seems. http://www.makingashift.com

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

No one cares Josh. Women also don’t have those obligations. No one has those obligations if they’re clear that what they’re having is a one-time fling.

Go get ready for school so you can learn some reading comprehension. It’s a weekday and you’ll get in trouble for truancy.

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

You know, aren’t backstage people suppose to be nice to the guest? They aren’t suppose to be mean. Roosh is getting all worked up because they’re doing their job.

They’re obligated to be nice to you Roosh. I’m sure most of the women you’ve met were obligated to be nice while they work. You aren’t special.

chronic lurker
chronic lurker
5 years ago

@Banana Jackie
It’s like when waitresses or flight attendance personnel are all friendly and smily cause that’s just apart of the job, and the person they are serving becomes convinced that the waitress/flight attendant really likes them and decide to act inappropriately towards them. (Or at least, that’s their excuse for acting inappropriate anyways…)

chronic lurker
chronic lurker
5 years ago

*decides

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Litschi | April 29, 2015 at 3:48 am
@Paradoxical Intention

No harm done! 😉 Will try to be over-sarcastic next time, so it’s more obvious! 😉

Oh good! :U *lets out a sigh of relief*

Sarcasm doesn’t travel well over text for me unless I recognize your usernym and text style. >.>

I usually try to denote what’s sarcasm in an obvious way myself by putting something like [/sarcasm] after the sarcastic bits for people who can’t see it. >.>

bekabot
5 years ago

Well, this settles it: there is no honor among thieves after all.

mildlymagnificent
5 years ago

One thing not mentioned about fat-shaming women that is really, really important.

Pregnancy. There are a lot of women who worry far too much about being “fat” when they’re pregnant. There are far too many men who insist that women gain the least possible weight during the pregnancy _and_ lose that weight as quickly as possible while they’re breast feeding or even when they’re not. For most women with non-problem pregnancy and breast feeding, keeping it up for 6 months or more will allow a body to return to its non-baby shape without any additional effort.

It is possible to gain too much weight when you’re pregnant, which makes it hard to lose afterwards. It’s also dangerous to the hoped for baby to restrict calorie and nutrient intake when pregnant because the woman and/or her partner dislike the pregnancy shape.

portlantonio
5 years ago

I don’t care if dr. Oz is a money-grubbing buffoon. Roosh deserves this sort of public shaming. It’s the least that karma could do.

Lanariel
Lanariel
5 years ago

@josh

And neither me or any of the other posters owes you either
A) the time of day
B) an answer to your comment
C) an explanation of why the irony of both your and Doosh’s reactions are priceless
D) to be polite if they answer you
E) to wish you a happy day
F) to continue to go through the entire alphabet

Glad we cleared that up.

It have been a very entertaining exchange, but I thinks the subjects been exhausted, but I am very interesting in hearing your honest opinion on that matter.

Yours truly, Lanariel

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

It’s funny, I’d never heard of Dr Oz until this thread and now this article suddenly appears in the Guardian….

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/29/dr-oz-oprah-winfrey-let-down-fans