So our old dear friend Roosh Valizadeh — the not-quite-Nazi pickup artist and rape legalization advocate — appeared on The Dr. Oz Show today. No, really.
Dr. Oz brought him on to elucidate the “fat shaming”campaign that he launched a couple of years ago to fight back against the women who torment him daily by being too big to please his boner. Apparently, at least in the eyes of Dr. Oz and his producers, Roosh is the “leader of the international fat shaming movement.”
Shockingly. neither Dr. Oz nor his mostly female studio audience were grateful for Roosh’s work on this front. Oz pointed out that fat shaming doesn’t work — all it really accomplishes is to make people feel shitty about themselves — and brought out a number of unapologetically fat women to confront him. Roosh responded by robotically repeating his talking points. (If you missed the show, you can watch a snippet of it here or read a recap here.)
In many ways more interesting than the show itself is Roosh’s reaction to it. In a blog post today, Roosh complains that he “was backstabbed by Dr. Oz and his female producers.”
As he tells it, these devious females sweet talked him to get him on the show, telling him what he wanted to hear and treating him “courteous[ly] and professional[ly].” On the day of the show, as they prepped him for his appearance, staffers
smiled at me and seemed genuinely interested in what I had to say about fat shaming, and one even went so far as to offer aid in obtaining the loose leaf green tea that I desired (I avoid bagged teas whenever possible). From the behavior they showed me, it was safe to assume that I was about to have an honest conversation about the obesity issue on mainstream American television.
And then Dr. Oz called him a “monster” on national TV, and made him talk to some fat women who didn’t much appreciate his “help.”
After his segment, Roosh reports, “[t]he backstage hands didn’t even look at me.”
Yep, that’s right. The proudly amoral “pickup artist” is complaining that he was seduced, used, and abandoned.
So what exactly did the mean Dr. Oz do to poor Mr. Valizadeh?
Here’s Roosh’s version of events:
I was ushered backstage and did a microphone test for the sound engineer. There were several monitors above where I could see the studio set. I looked up at one and saw Dr. Oz introducing me. I was preparing to go on the stage with a slight smile, but that notion quickly evaporated when I heard the word “monster” and “bringing him out from the shadows.” Instantly, I knew I was walking into a trap. I looked around, half hoping for a hug or some assurance that everything was going to be okay, but realized that the staff who were so cheery earlier knew all along that they were ushering me to a public execution. They sedated me with niceities so I would not be mentally prepared for what was about to happen.
I’m sorry, but my irony meter just burst into flames.
I shook Dr. Oz’s hand, the man who just called me a monster, out of instinct. The lights were bright but not in my face, making it hard to see the 200 people in the audience. I counted three cameras with teleprompters attached and didn’t know if I should look at them or not. My mouth suddenly felt dry.
Dr. Oz’s attack began by cherry picking the meanest quotes I’ve ever written and asking me to justify them. I got out my shovel, ready to work, but every time I climbed up the edge, Dr. Oz would push me back in by saying I was “screwed up” or offer some type of emotional outburst before wild applause by the audience. I have been to European soccer games with less emotion.
Having read a great deal of Mr. V’s writings over the past several years, I feel safe in saying that the quotes Dr. Oz read back to Roosh — that men would “rather die than have sex with a woman over 150 pounds,” that only ugly people and feminists think that beauty is on the inside — were not “the meanest quotes [he’s] ever written.” Not even close. Nor did Roosh’s segments on the show much resemble a soccer match — or even a Jerry Springer show. It was actually fairly tame, by daytime talk show standards.
I tried to take the conversation out of feelings and into logic by claiming that thin women are objectively more attractive and that obesity is causing huge public health problems, but they specifically wanted to focus on me and my “hatred” and all the feelings I’m hurting. The debate was framed in a way to not bring up facts that went against the party line.
Not really. Roosh was given a good deal of time in which he could have set forth his “facts.” He simply didn’t have any facts to report. Even aside from Roosh’s assholery, his entire “fat shaming” campaign is built upon a premise that numerous studies have found to be false; on the show, Roosh more or less admitted that he’s done precisely zero actual research on the issue.
After frothing up the audience to despise me, Dr. Oz initiated the two minutes of hate. He found the fattest women in the New York area and put them on steel reinforced seats to insult me as they wished. The crowd cheered and applauded after each fat woman gave her prepared diatribe. It was at this point I started examining the crowd of mostly women. I made eye contact with a few to see if they would stick their tongue out at me or wag their finger, but they didn’t. They were motionless mannequins that waited for the flashing studio light to give a response.
I’m not quite sure why Roosh expected women to stick their tongues out at him like three-year-olds, but whenever Oz’s producers cut to the audience, I didn’t see “motionless mannequins”; I saw women incredulous and disgusted by what he had to say. If anyone on the show appeared robotic, it was Roosh.
At one point, Roosh reports,
I looked at Dr. Oz and wondered if he would cap it all off by punching me. It would make for good television, at least.
Towards the end of his appearance, Roosh continues,.
I squeezed in a decent bit about how fat acceptance shortens everyone’s life spans, and I heard a gasp from somewhere as if what I said was shocking, and realized that my statement will probably be edited out.
Nope. It wasn’t. Again, Roosh had plenty of opportunity to present his case, such as it is; it’s not Dr. Oz’ fault that the “leader of the international fat shaming movement” didn’t have much of a case to present.
Which makes sense, because it’s blindingly obvious that Roosh doesn’t actually care about the well-being of fat women (or men); he just wants them to feel shitty.
Yet he still feels, somehow, that he is trying to save Western Civilization. Before he went on the show, he writes, he delivered the following monologue to a friend of his who went with him to the taping:
Hundreds of years ago, I would have been a soldier, fighting battles to defend my country against invaders, or invading another tribe to steal their women and land. But here I am, with makeup on my face, about to talk about fat people, because now the world values entertainment more than anything else. They want singers and actors and famous people to make them forget about their boring lives, and even women we meet want the same. I was given some type of ability by god or nature so that I am wanted here right now in this building during this strange time of humanity, and so I will use that ability, and give everyone their entertainment.
Sorry to break it to you, Roosh, but you’re not nearly as entertaining as you think you are.
So, does Nielsen track size demographics of television viewers? I’m going to go out on a limb and say no. How does the troll know whether or not Dr. Oz viewers are fat? Especially if he’s in another country?
@ИВАН ГРОЗНЫЙ
Lets for a moment ignore the the need for facts and treat your writing as holy truth. (the mental exercise will come in handy for understanding 4- and 5 dimensional spaces.)
If he has to defend fat women, since they are his audience, should we not then congratulate him to find an actual human with such strawman like arguments to debate on his show? Cause you now Capitalism and ‘murica?
And now pointing things out and suggesting things that don’t work is considered good points? (Fast there are to many stars in the night sky, lets all try to shoot them with bows and arrows! Am I playing right?)
And if it truly is a problem that needs to be handled, should we not go with the method that has the larger amount of chance for success, or are suddenly the ideas of logic and rigorous scientific practices worthless?
At last, if there are too many fat people, is it not just once more just good business sense to market to your audience? If the ratio continues to increase, witch seems to be the point of some of Doosh’s comments, does it not just follow from evo-psych that the dudes that are in to that will have more sex, and become the new chads and alphas? (I would like to ask for forgiveness from the furrinati for applying logic to evo-psych, they will never meet again)
And yet, our troll “Ivan Grozniy”, if that is in fact his name, even though he claims to be Russian, isn’t aware of that.
A rather striking omission on your part, “Ivan”.
(Has Bryce posted before or not? I can’t tell if he’s here in good faith or just WATM concern trolling.)
@M.
Pretty sure Bryce has posted here before in good faith, which makes it surprising.
I am presuming good faith.
Wow, you know you’re up shit creek when the king of misinformation and phony research calls you out…..
Just read the OP. I had skimmed the title thought the worse: that Dr. Oz was giving Roosh a platform and endorsement for his vile fat-shaming message. Thank goodness it turned out not to be the case.
Reading Roosh’s account of things, it seems he has a simplistic and warped view of human interaction. He seemed to think if people act professionally and treat him with basic respect, they must agree with his points of view. I mean, there are tons of people (feminists included) who can respectfully disagree with someone. Is this really so alien to him?
Now to read these comments.
@policy of madness
I agree there are a number of issues that so overwhelmingly affect women that the representation of men within the discussion is unwelcome, but I’m not sure that must apply here, why there should be separate entities for men and women… why the presence of men means women will be undermined, silenced etc. as if there were some sort of empathy deficit between the sexes.
If an organization exists to counter a form of discrimination, shouldn’t it then acknowledge anyone encountering said discrimination? Unless, that is, they choose to add a clause within their mission statement/organization goals making it clear who they represent. None of the fat acceptance organizations do that (explicitly state that they are run for and by women), which implies that fat discrimination is only a problem for women.
@Aunt Edna
The Reddit TeRPers never fail to impress (themselves).
I’m guessing this poster isn’t a lawyer either because you won’t actually win any arguments with real people simply barking out what you think are fallacies. It works wonders against imaginary straw females though.
He must be blast in real life.
“Hey, I’ve heard this new Thai place is really great, my friends have been raving about it.”
“Argument to popularity! Appeal to novelty!”
@Bryce
Are there actual formal “fat acceptance organizations” with staffs, budgets, legal staus etc?
I know there are groups that meet up, and there are online places you can go to.
I don’t know about the ones with staffs, budgets, and all that jazz though.
Bryce, this is starting to smack of ‘why won’t you feminists work on men’s issues?! Misandry!!’ This is a valuable discussion but in the wrong place. There are a number of fat acceptance forums where this discussion would lead to more action.
If the fat acceptance movement is made up of online forums, websites and meet-ups then men can easily take part and start to make their voices heard. Bryce seems to be criticizing the policies of organizations that don’t exist.
As far as I can tell, there aren’t any fat acceptance movement versions of big influential well-funded groups like the HRC or NOW, where the lack of broad representation can lead to ongoing problems.
I wish I could retract my last comment. There are a about 4 fat acceptance organizations (including NAAFA, Health at any Size) , but from what I can tell they don’t focus primarily on women’s experiences.
I was drawing from statements by individuals, within forums, blogs etc., assuming they were somehow representative of those groups.
Guess that puts the ASS in assumption, doesn’t it ;//
Apologies.
*Health at Any Size.. *slinks away*
So Roosh can’t take the treatment he gives to women. It seems he does have feelings, and doesn’t operate only on the basis of his perverted logic. He appeared fairly controlled on the show, but then writes his response, because he feels he was not heard.
Beacuse there IS some sort of empathy deficit.
That’s why violence against women is usually met with victim blaming or sheer indifference.
That’s why victims of violence are told to “get over” stuff that needs to be processed and healed.
Women are denied the right to be treated as human beings every day, mostly by men but sometimes women as well.
There IS an empathy deficit.
Just like there is a wage gap, there is an “emotional gap” in how men and women are allowed to experience their feelings and their relationships with others.
I’ve had a tumultuous relationship with the fat acceptance movement. I was a fan. Then I was not. Now I think it’s great.
I took issue is that some FA folks will tell you that trying to lose weight takes away your “radness” and that it is never good for you. There are reasons to watch your weight. Some people do have hobbies, health issues or even just issues with their body that they are in the process of working out. I don’t like telling people that they have to love their body as is because I think you should be able to do whatever you want with your bod and you can’t really control how you feel about something. If shaming does what it is intended to do and makes you insecure, you’re still rad. You’re still surviving in a world that hates you. Maybe your coping mechanism isn’t the best, but you do what you do to get through.
I hate that “real woman” crap too.
I’m noticing that all of those issues are getting worked out within that movement. I’m so glad. The world needs fat acceptance.
Thin women need fat acceptance. When my daughter was on ADD meds she had no appetite. She was so skinny that I cried. It was dangerous for her to get sick because she couldn’t afford to lose any weight. That was when the schools were starting to only have skim milk, only have margarine, started telling the kids how important staying thin was, how some foods were “bad foods” etc. When I complained that my daughter needed higher calorie food because she could not eat much and she refused to drink Boost (because it tastes nasty.) I was told that the school was “trying to save these kids lives!”. >.<
(Sometimes I forget how much I love homeschool. Then I remember this stuff.)
I took issue is that?
I almost spelled “shaming” “ahming” and that last “almost” “amolst” . Dyslexia is working overtime today. In general I’m having trouble braining this week.
@Bryce
I still think you don’t quite get it. Women – even women on forums and blogs – are not obligated to speak for men, even though they could. It’s entitlement that leads from “you could work for me if you want” to “you should work for me and it’s morally suspect that you aren’t.” Just as no woman is obligated to have sex with any man, no woman is obligated to dedicate her labor toward men. Yes, that applies even when there is overlap between a woman’s problem and a man’s problem.
What exactly is stopping you from working on the problem of fat discrimination against men? Why do you expect women to dedicate their limited time, energy and other resources directly to you? Note that promoting fat acceptance for women has indirect benefits for men, but you expect more than incidental help. You want direct, targeted help, and every hour that a woman dedicates toward directly giving you targeted help is an hour she is not helping herself. Time and energy are not unlimited.
I can’t speak for where this is coming from with you personally, but societally there is an expectation that women exist to help men, and if they aren’t helping men then they’re doing something wrong. This is incorrect, and I’m going to push back against anything that forwards that meme. Women don’t have to help men, and it’s not morally wrong for a woman to focus entirely on herself or on other women. Yes, the women on whatever blog or forum you were visiting could use their energy talking about fat men, but there’s no moral bankruptcy in the fact that they aren’t.
@dhag85 Thank you! *feels loved*
@Bryce Good on you, it takes a big person to admit mistakes. (…No pun.) As PoM pointed out, maybe it would be helpful to examine your assumptions on this. I mean if individual women in FA excluded or silenced men that is indeed their problem and they should be called out on it. OTOH it wasn’t entirely clear to me from your comments this was the case, though if there’s evidence for male exclusion I’d be interested in hearing that too.
How else do [fatties] want to hear it? They sit on their ass while they should be working out. It’s obvious they have issues, beyond just mental, it’s their physical health. You’re fat, loose some weight!
Women are a cash cow for the economy. The public secret is that it is easy to separate women from their money. Big Business knows they can tell women what they want to hear and the cash rolls in. It is profitable to tell women anything that does not make them upset. Roosh makes them upset. Big Business sells women fat pills. One slips under women’s radar. One doesn’t.
I used to be fat when I was younger it was a nightmare but as I got older I’m a lot skinner you can see my bones, I weigh at 106 now. I need to work out and eat more but other than that I I’m cool. 🙂
Hector Andres Ochoa
It’s a lot harder than it looks and some people don’t want to lose weight they love being fat and being an fatophobic a-hole doesn’t help.
Hippiefreak
We’re not stupid but yes the media tries to smash women and girls self esteem as much as possible to sell us stuff.