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Did Vox Day, #GamerGate-r and Sci Fi douchebag, just confess to serial rape on the David Pakman Show?

Vox Day:
Vox Day: “I’m smarter than practically everyone else out there.”

Earlier today, several readers alerted me to a new video out with an alarming title: Vox Day Admits to Sex with Women Without Consent, Says Gay is a Birth Defect.

The video, a 46-minute interview of Science Fiction’s biggest asshole conducted by YouTuber David Pakman, doesn’t quite live up to its sensational title (which I now see Pakman has changed).

While Day — real name Theodore Beale — does indeed say that gayness is a birth defect, he’s evasive when Pakman asks him point-blank about some of the more amazingly wrong and creepy things he’s written about rape. Indeed, he’s so evasive in his answers it’s easy to lose track of what exactly Pakman is trying to get him to clarify.

So let’s look at the actual quotes that Pakman was asking him about. In a 2005 blog post (archived here), Day wrote:

If the definition of rape is stretched so far to include women who have not given consent, then I am absolutely a serial rapist. So, too, is every man I know.

Pakman is of course correct to see this as a rather startling admission. Because the very definition of rape is sex without consent; there is no stretching going on here.

In the interview, Vox doesn’t repudiate these comments, but he doesn’t exactly affirm them either; he tells Pakman that he has indeed had sex with women without first obtaining explicit written consent, introducing a qualifier that was not there in the original. He goes on to say that he’s had sex without getting explicit verbal consent for each and every sexual act, a la the famous Antioch College rules. Again, that wasn’t the question. Pakman makes a valiant effort to pin Day down on this, but he wriggles away every time.

If you look at some of the other things Day was writing about rape around the same time of that 2005 post, you can see that he’s been using the “written permission” nonsense to muddle the issue for a very long time.

Less than a week before his “serial rape” comment, Day posted a long, victim-blamey disquisition on rape (archived here), in which he drew a distinction between “genuine rape” and date rape, saying that

most so-called “date rape” is not rape nor a crime of any kind, because he said-she said is no basis for a system of justice. If sex without written permission is a crime, then all sex is rape and all men are unrepentant criminals.

Never mind that “written permission” is never the issue in rape cases.

In another post from around the same time (archived here), he seems to suggest that the difficulty in proving date rape in court means that it doesn’t really exist:

“Date rape” is distinguished from real rape as it involves inherently sexual situations where there is seldom any possibility of obtaining evidence of either criminal activity or criminal intent, both of which are necessary to demonstrate in the conviction of real crimes.

Back to the present. Pakman asks Day about another kind of rape that he thinks doesn’t exist: rape in marriage. In a blog post last year, as you may recall, Day wrote that

The concept of marital rape is not merely an oxymoron, it is an attack on the institution of marriage, on the concept of objective law, and indeed, on the core foundation of human civilization itself.

So why isn’t marital rape rape? As Day sees it, “marriage grants consent on an ongoing basis.” So once a woman says “I do” on her wedding day, he believes, she can no longer say no to sex with her husband, as sex is part of her marital duty.

In his interview with Pakman, Day reiterates this basic argument, though he is notably elusive about just which sexual acts a married woman has intrinsically said yes to when she agrees to be married. Pakman asks Day if he believes married men should go ahead and force their wives to have sex when they’ve explicitly said no; Day allows that this might not be such a good idea.

Pakman devotes a decent portion of the interview to the troubling things Day has said about rape; he could easily have devoted an entire hour or two to Day’s odious opinions on the subject. Pakman, for example, doesn’t ask Day about his bizarre assertion, in a blog post last December, that any woman who says a white man raped her is lying. No, really. This is what he wrote:

White American men simply don’t rape these days. At this point, unless a womann claims it was committed by a black or Hispanic man she didn’t previously know, all claims of rape, especially by a college woman, have to be considered intrinsically suspect.

Even though Pakman is unable to get straight answers from Day on most of the questions he asks, the interview is well worth watching. No, scratch that: It is largely because he is unable to get straight answers from Day that the interview is so compelling.

Day is weirdly and floridly evasive on virtually every topic Pakman brings up, from rape to the intentions of #Gamergate, and while he’s never willing to say outright that he was wrong about anything Pakman puts before him, he’s remarkably unwilling to take responsibility for the words he’s written, sounding very little like the “alpha male” he so often proclaims himself to be.

Here’s the video, if you have 45 minutes to spare:

H/T —  on Twitter, the first of several people who alerted me to this video

EDIT: I noted that Pakman has changed the title of his video.

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Sofia van der Linde
5 years ago

He probably had the good sense to get some legal advice on how to acquire enough wiggle room.
What a horrible human being.

LifeofMisAdventure (@JlnFrancisco)

Thanks Vox for reminding me anyone who talks about their IQ can be safely dismissed.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Anybody who claims that consent is haaaaaard, and who zealously defends rapists by defining “real” rape so narrowly that almost no rapes fit within it, is probably a rapist. You don’t go through life with the idea that consent is optional without, sooner or later, raping someone. I suppose it’s possible to be lucky and only wind up with willing partners, but the moment a person like that winds up with an unwilling partner, rape is going to follow. They won’t feel like a rapist, because what they did doesn’t fit into the tiny, tiny box that is labeled “rape” in their mind, but in reality, a person was raped and they did it.

I pretty much operate under the assumption that people like Voxxy are either actual rapists, or at a minimum rapists waiting to happen.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

If the definition of rape is stretched so far to include women who have not given consent, then I am absolutely a serial rapist. So, too, is every man I know.

O RLY? He must not know a lot of guys, then. Either that, or the whole concept of giving consent, which has been law in a lot of places for quite some time, is unclear to him.

In any case, I highly doubt he’s talking about merely getting consensually laid on the regular, because whose taste is so poor that she would sleep with HIM?

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
5 years ago

Earlier today, several readers alerted me to a new video out with an alarming title: Vox Day Admits to Sex with Women Without Consent, Says Gay is a Birth Defect.

The title showing up on the video now is ‘#GamerGate: Vox Day Says Some Races Smarter Than Others, Gay is a Birth Defect’.

Not that this is any better, mind you…

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

For anyone who doesn’t want to slog through the whole video, the portion about rape starts at 15 minutes in.

Seems to me that Vox is making two assertions:

1. “Consent” is meaningless and useless as a concept if it doesn’t have some legal weight (like a contract).

2. Since “consent” could only possibly have that strict legally-binding application, and “rape” is defined as a lack of that construct, then nearly all sex is “rape.”

Which… by god, that is some ass-headed word play. Apparently it is inconceivable that “consent” could simply mean “is informed about and willing to engage in a sexual activity.” What the participants actually “want” is an anathama to him.

As for the stuff on marital rape… I don’t even know what the hell he’s going on about. When it comes down to a specific situation of forcing yourself on your wife when she says “I don’t want to have sex,” Beale will say that that is “foolish” and “not what you should do in a relationship like that.” But then immediately after he’ll launch into a long conversation about how marital rape shouldn’t be against the law and how being married means that you have given irrevocable consent to (some) kinds of sex.

Right…

Nequam
Nequam
5 years ago

It bothers me a litle just how unsurprised I am that The Shitgolem Vox Day might well be a rapist.

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

Reminds me of Whoopi Goldberg’s defense of Polanski – “it was rape, but not rape-rape.”

How can Beale live with himself? Does he actually believe that he’s a decent human being?

Sarah
Sarah
5 years ago

Am I the only one weirded out to see him sitting on what looks like a throne? Narcissistic dude is narcissistic.

Also, apparently he didn’t know he would be called out on his views regarding race and sexuality, so I give Pakman props for that. https://archive.is/Bl7Ii

yamamanama
yamamanama
5 years ago

@Nequam
Don’t call him a shitgolem.

…imagine that a shitgolem took a shit. That’s what he is. The shit of a shitgolem.

FifthInterval
5 years ago

Yeah, going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that anyone who argues that it’s essentially impossible not to have sex without committing rape is probably a rapist.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@Sarah:

Wow.

But that’s how they play the game. I find it amusing that the headlines are focused on my supposedly “controversial statements” when saying that some races are smarter than others is no more debatable than saying that some races are taller than others.

Blech, what a dishonest response. Like when misogynists say “of course women are intellectually and physically inferior to men, are you saying that the two are genetically identical in every way?”

Unless height is a determining factor of intelligence (and you can finally nail down how man races exist an what they are), you’ve made a non sequitor.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

*how many races exist and what they are

Sunny
Sunny
5 years ago

Thinking back to my own experience growing up in a very patriarchal religious community, if what he really is alluding to about marital rape is that married women just shouldn’t ever say no. Problem solved, if she never says no than rape will never happen, very convenient.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Reminds me of Whoopi Goldberg’s defense of Polanski – “it was rape, but not rape-rape.”

I have had zero respect for Whoopi Goldberg since she said that. Polanski had sex with an underaged, pubescent girl, who had been drugged, and who was saying, “No, no, no,” and ineffectually trying to fight him off the entire time. How on earth does anyone define that as anything but rape? What extenuating circumstances could possibly exist in Goldberg’s mind to classify that as some kind of misunderstanding or innocent mistake?

Irene
Irene
5 years ago

This is the same dude who took great pleasure in misunderstanding John Scalzi’s satirical post from the point of view of a rapist, and has gone around ever since saying Scalzi is a self-confessed rapist.

Brian Peters
5 years ago

the thing I “like” most about the things these “people” day is that marital rape doesn’t exist but “divorce rape” totally does.

fuck off.

yamamanama
yamamanama
5 years ago

So, in other words, he deserves it?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

What a nausea inducing picture of him!

Anytime some guy asks “what am I supposed to, get written consent?” while railing against affirmative consent my answer is always “yes!”

If consent is really so confusing, then get a contract.

hekatesgal (@hekatesgal)

He can’t be a rapist because he is white. He says so! White men don’t rape. I declare white women can’t assault Vox Day. So…

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Now the Youtube comments are full of GamerGoobers going “waaah this had nothing to do with GamerGate! Vox doesn’t represent us!”

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

OMFG the end “you should only take [what I write] seriously if I tell you to take it seriously” oh Vox wow “Don’t hold me accountable for anything I say ever unless I say it’s okay for you to hold me accountable”

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

To clarify the second thing I put in quotes was me paraphrasing Vox’s argument. The first thing was a direct quote.

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

The idea of a consent contract is just aweful, cause it implies that if one of the people involved stops being into it they can’t back out, or will be blamed for getting raped cause “she/he signed the contract!”. And it’s still a case of he said/she said if one of the 2 violates the rules in the contract. It’s not a consent contract, it’s a rape contract.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

@isidore
For someone who claims to be smarter than most people Vox is a fucking idiot. What a very transparent attempt at dodging accountability.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ spindthrift

The idea of a consent contract is just aweful, cause it implies that if one of the people involved stops being into it they can’t back out

Actually, even in commercial contracts you can have termination clauses allowing any party to withdraw at any time. Sometimes you set up particular procedures (e.g. “upon written notice” etc.) but there would be nothing to stop you including a term that verbal notification (e.g. saying “stop”) meant immediate withdrawal of consent.

[Which is of course the situation in law anyway]

AllisonW
AllisonW
5 years ago

sunnysombrera: in fairness, that is probably the most moral fibre GoombaGophers have shown in anything, so even as someone who loathes their collective guts I have trouble faulting them for condemning the shitgolem’s morning constitutional.

Xanith
Xanith
5 years ago

I’ve heard that there are places were a verbal agreement can be considered a legally binding contract, so consent through verbal agreement shouldn’t be such a novel concept.

JohnnyRingo
JohnnyRingo
5 years ago

[quote]If the definition of rape is stretched so far to include women who have not given consent…[/quote]
Um, that’s really not much of a stretch there, Vox. I’m pretty sure that’s precisely the definition of rape, and always has been.

[quote]…then I am absolutely a serial rapist.[/quote]
Um, alrighty then.

[quote]So, too, is every man I know.[/quote]
Not me, nor an overwhelming majority of the men I know. What kind of rapist-crowd are you hanging out with, Vox?

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

most so-called “date rape” is not rape nor a crime of any kind, because he said-she said is no basis for a system of justice. If sex without written permission is a crime, then all sex is rape and all men are unrepentant criminals.

Oh, bullshit.

There is no written contract, INCLUDING A MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE, that says that sex must be provided on demand. Meaning, sex within marriage is NOT mandatory (although non-consummation IS grounds for a legal annulment, but that’s another story). And that means that a verbal No is quite acceptable for not pressing ahead and fucking her anyway.

And by the way, “he said/she said” rape cases happen all the time. And sometimes, “she” even wins!

smithshadow
5 years ago

Vox Day appears to believe his privilege permits him to act in any manner he sees fit. His attempts to justify his words and actions only makes him more contemptible.

smithshadow
5 years ago

Or worthy of contempt.

Sarah
Sarah
5 years ago

Here’s the archive of his updated blog post. https://archive.is/7gaLa

He’s complaining that Pakman wanted an interview specifically about #gamergate, and insinuates that because Pakman says he did not “obtain absolute formal written consent every time [he] had sex,” that Pakman was somehow being hypocritical.

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
5 years ago

If the definition of rape is stretched so far to include women who have not given consent, then I am absolutely a serial rapist. So, too, is every man I know.

I am 100% certain that I’ve never raped anyone. It’s not hard to not do this. It’s not even, like, a burden. All that is required is that you don’t have sex with anyone that doesn’t want to have sex with you, and if they’re not making it abundantly clear that they want to have sex with you, ask them. That is the lowest bar imaginable.

drst
drst
5 years ago

I feel like you deserve cookies or alcohol or both for slogging through that video to write this up, David.

Falconer
5 years ago

@Irene:

This is the same dude who took great pleasure in misunderstanding John Scalzi’s satirical post from the point of view of a rapist, and has gone around ever since saying Scalzi is a self-confessed rapist.

All those who take up the flaming sword shall die by the flaming sword.

totallyalphadudebro
totallyalphadudebro
5 years ago

I follow Pakman on youtube. He’s very social justice oriented, but for whatever reason when gamergate broke he took the “both sides have valid points” angle. Which was deeply disappointing to say the least. He gave a platform to a whole bunch of people involved including a number of gater shit stains. But maybe this new interview means he’s seen the goobergaters for what they truly are. We can always hope. (Or we’re about to get a pro-gater counterbalance video. Blech).

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Just as an aside: Damn, but Beale sure is looking an awful lot like that obnoxious dude in the pub, the one who’s always loudest about his opinions once he’s had a few pints.

(In his case, few is the operative word. I don’t imagine that it takes much booze to loosen that already much-too-busy tongue.)

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
5 years ago

I’ve heard that there are places were a verbal agreement can be considered a legally binding contract, so consent through verbal agreement shouldn’t be such a novel concept.

According to the professor in the one law class I took, in Canada at least (and I suspect in most countries using British Common Law) a verbal contract is technically legally binding, at least for any field other than real estate. Deeds are still required for that.

Of course, proving the actual contents of the contract if it was only verbal is rather more difficult when any disagreements happen, which is why contracts get written out if there is any suspicion that there might be problems down the line.

M.
M.
5 years ago

in fairness, that is probably the most moral fibre GoombaGophers have shown in anything, so even as someone who loathes their collective guts I have trouble faulting them for condemning the shitgolem’s morning constitutional.

Except that their main source of pro-#GG news is Reaxxion, run by somebody who’s even more murderously bigoted and perfectly happy to admit that he’s a rapist.

They aren’t standing up to Vox’s beliefs, they’re covering their own asses. Again.

rick
rick
5 years ago

Ugh. Just looking at him. He’s like a cross between larvae and a bag of ricotta cheese, liberally seasoned with racism and misogyny.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

I appreciate how Vox prepares viewers for the brilliance that awaits them.

I’m in the top, you know, tiny fraction of 1% when it comes to intelligence. I’m smarter than practically everyone else out there.

[11:30]

Vox defends his position on marital rape with saying the words “English” “Common” and “Law”, and then referencing Wikipedia, but he mostly looks confused when Pakman informs him that it’s in fact illegal in all 50 States.

Rather than answer Pakman’s follow ups, Vox complains about how martial rape seems all subjective. Pakman attempts to explain how judging criminal intent and degrees of culpability can involve subjective tests, then Vox simply gives up.

The thing that people often don’t understand when they’re reading the things I’ve written is I am usually addressing something at a particular intellectual level that is of interest to me. OK. I think that as you now work through the whole concept of marital rape as a criminal legal concept is fundamentally subjective and subjective law is bad law.

[23:45]

Apparently his “particular intellectual level” involves ignorance of basic legal concepts. He should stick to his blog and the World Net Daily gig his dad got him if he wants to keep up his flimsy intellectual facade.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

He’s like a cross between larvae and a bag of ricotta cheese, liberally seasoned with racism and misogyny.

Casu marzu, perhaps?

Machine Gun Sally
Machine Gun Sally
5 years ago

This man terrifies me.

totallyalphadudebro
totallyalphadudebro
5 years ago

Guess I should have checked my youtube page first because Pakman does indeed have a “counterbalance” gamergate video up, featuring Christina Hoff Sommers giving the “feminist” perspective. Gonna go puke in a corner somewhere. I can’t even bring myself to watch it. If anyone else can, here’s the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhDPFJENqBc

Ghost Robot
Ghost Robot
5 years ago

Beale’s dad is a notorious fraudster and “Soveriegn Citizen” kook. It wouldn’t surprise me if Vox has applied his dad’s bullshit pseudolegal thinking (a hallmark of Sovereign Citizens and Freemen-On-The-Land) to matters of consent. Hence this “written consent” garbage.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

This man is unappealing in every possible way. Again, why does he have any following?

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

I’m in the top, you know, tiny fraction of 1% when it comes to intelligence. I’m smarter than practically everyone else out there.

My shitgolem is different from regular shitgolems. It’s like my shitgolem is in the top percentage of shitgolems!

…I couldn’t resist.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Aunt Edna | April 24, 2015 at 11:13 pm
This man is unappealing in every possible way. Again, why does he have any following?

The same reason CHS has a following: They both pat their followings on the head and tell them that it’s alright, they’re all correct about everything, and those meanie feeemales are all wrong about everything. You’re a good person, and you are better than everyone else!

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