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$MONEY$ a voice for men antifeminism antifeminist women evil SJWs gross incompetence playing the victim schadenfreude

A Voice for Men tries to jump-start ticket sales for its convention by promising greater punctuality, longer lunch breaks

moneyonfire
Burning hundred-dollar bills: A much better entertainment value than AVFM’s upcoming conference

So Susan Morris, the Conference Manager for A Voice for Men’s allegedly upcoming “Men’s Issues” conference this year. has posted a rather puzzling statement attempting to answer questions she’s been getting from AVFM readers “concerning there being fewer speakers on the programme this year and the ticket price being higher.”

Morris — described on the site as “a British woman, an experienced general and event manager in public service” — assures potential conference goers that, “contrary to the headline which I saw somewhere, the ticket price has not been set at $649!”

And that’s true. If you go to the conference’s website, you can see that, in fact, full price tickets to the event are only $645.

That is FOUR WHOLE DOLLARS LESS than the amount reported by the scurrilous press. And … by Morris herself, later in her post. 

But hey, she suggests, only suckers will be paying the full $649.

The Early Bird Discount ensures that if you purchase your ticket by the 30th of April, you will only pay $399. Buy it between 1 May and 30 June and you’ll still get it at a good discount, at the price of $449. The price will increase in $50 steps until it gets to the buy-at-the-door price of $649 and we expect very few, if any, to do so. In fact, that price has been set to deter people from doing so, so that they don’t hold up those people who have been entered into the pre-registration system and only need to book in.

Morris also insists that

Contrary to the efforts made by our detractors to blacken our name, the ticket price is not aimed at making a profit but breaking even would be nice.

Yeah, it’s not like AVFM founder and chief donation-receiver Paul Elam ever said that he hoped to make some actual profit from the conference. You know, except for that time he said he “hope[d] to make some actual profit” from the conference.

So what’s to blame for the higher price? Apparently, it’s largely due to, er, time-traveling protesters from Detroit?

Last year, you may recall, a group of Detroit-area activists held a protest several weeks before AFVM’s conference was scheduled to happen in that city. There were no protesters at the event itself.

This year, the conference is being held in Elam’s hometown of Houston. But evidently — at least in the fevered imaginations of AVFM’s brain trust — that won’t stop last year’s protesters from driving 1300 miles from Detroit to Houston to protest this year’s event. At least that’s what Morris seems to be suggesting:

The protesters from last year have already vowed to shut us down this year and though we know they will not achieve their aim, they will still be protesting (as is their right, of course). Security and safety of our attendees, speakers and volunteer staff will always be of prime importance and so, to avoid a repeat of last year’s emergency appeal for funding, we have built into the costs additional but reasonable security cover.

Aside from “security cover” from time-travelling protesters, what will attendees get for their $649 — sorry, $645 — that no one is really expected to pay?

Fewer speakers!

“Last year,” Morris writes

in our naivety and enthusiasm, we overbooked the number of speakers for the two day event. During the conference it became clear that the programme was too full and did not allow sufficient time for decent length talks followed by full question and answer sessions. This year we have arranged ten speakers.

Greater punctuality! 

And this year we will ensure that we start each session on time.

Longer lunch breaks! And afternoon breaks! 

We have extended the afternoon break and the lunch time and we will be opening the doors each day at 8am. So, provided you arrive early, you will have over eight hours across the two days to mingle with other attendees and to network. And that’s not including the time spent at the evening events, socialising and networking with other like-minded people over dinner or pizza.

Dinner is an additional $20; Pizza is $15. But the time you spend eating is ABSOLUTELY FREE.

A larger number of unpaid staffers than you would think would be even remotely necessary for an event of its size!

Another factor which people tend to forget is the cost of flying in the speakers and volunteer staff and accommodating them all. Between speakers, panel discussion members and staff, we’ll have some forty five people there.

Free taxi service!

We’re arranging an optional taxi service to collect you from your hotel and take you to the venue and then to return you afterwards.

Wait, scratch that, the Taxi service will cost you an additional $15!

But talking to the cabbie is INCLUDED IN YOUR TICKET PRICE.

And finally, FREE ACCESS to an actual BRITISH WOMAN — namely conference manager Susan Morris herself.

I shall be flying in to Houston from the UK. It will be my first flight, a long one around ten hours and I can’t say I’m looking forward to it. But the end result will be worth it. I am looking forward to meeting as many of you as I can.

Because why not fly your conference manager all the way from the UK at the conference-goers’ expense? Sure, makes perfect sense!

I wonder if a single person has bought a ticket for the conference yet.

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gilshalos
5 years ago

The Peach Huff. One shot Midori, one shot peach schnapps, 2 shots lemonade. Tastes like fruit juice but has a helluva kick.

We had a bottle of Midori and this was the only way we could drink it.

MooMoo Cow
MooMoo Cow
5 years ago

@Paradoxical Intention

That sandwich reminds me of the Fool’s Gold sandwich, but considerably less decadent.
(I learned about it from a movie, and it is indeed a real sandwich: take a loaf of french bread, warm it up, slice horizontally and hollow it out; on one half, spread a jar of creamy peanut butter; on the other half, spread a jar of jelly; and before putting them together, add a pound of freshly-cooked bacon.)

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

My favorite sandwich is cheese, either extra sharp cheddar or pepper jack melted on bread in the microwave rather than grilled. This is gross to everyone else but I love it.

dhag85
5 years ago

It’s baffled me for a long time how Honeybadgers think they’re ‘proving feminism wrong’ by being ambitious and not conforming to gender stereotypes. To me it just seems like they take advantage of the victories of feminism while attempting to shut the door on all other women. Good thing they don’t have any actual power outside this little bubble.

I think the MRA view of women is similar to the GOP view of black people. They don’t like them, but the ones on their side are the good kind.

katz
5 years ago

Urgh. I was hungry until I read this thread.

dhag85
5 years ago

@wwth

Lol. I know my wife would be drooling at that sandwich recipe. Just like I would have potato chips for every meal if I could, she would probably have melted cheese for every meal if possible. We’re going to stay with her family for a few weeks this summer, and it always immediately devolves into putting cheese on things and popping it in the microwave for a minute.

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

I dunno. The price is currently $399 on “sale”. This is not out of line with commercially organised conferences I’ve spoken at before the public sector conference market in the UK completely disappeared. I’ve certainly seen two-day conferences with £700-900 prices. Although these do purport to teach you some actual skills and get you networking with some useful people (dubious claims even then). Of course, you do get some meals with that and maybe even a glass of conference plonk. When producing a conference that’s trying to cover costs with a small potential for a little profit, I would now charge £99 per day. This isn’t so far away from $399. And I don’t have to have additional security because I’m not producing a hate conference.

I say the price is probably worth it to their target audience. When else will they be in a room with people who can [barely] tolerate them for a whole weekend?

But the justifications of conference hall set-up are ridiculous. The hotel does that. There’s a bit of folder packing, maybe and setting these on tables or seats. There is a quite a bit of work for a couple of people a day or two in advance, printing badges, etc, but that doesn’t have to be done on site.

Auntie Alias hits it on the head that this is an opportunity for a set of in-crowd to meet up for free with a bit of adulation from the paying punters.

@gilshalos – I don’t think there’s anything that could get me drinking Midori.

ianrennie
5 years ago

I’m taking advantage of the deluxe “ultra-extended lunchbreak” package. I stay home and have a multi-day lunchbreak while not having to mix with a group of people who are basically what would happen if chlamydia could talk and put on shoes. Total cost: zero dollars.

dhag85
5 years ago

@ianrennie

You’re kidding yourself if you think they’ll be wearing shoes.

gilshalos
5 years ago

@rugbyyogi – The peach schnapps is very strongly flavoured 🙂

Moggie
Moggie
5 years ago

Banana Jackie Cake:

If there really is a majority of women (or all women) helping set up the conference, maybe it should brought to the attention of the internet? I mean, that’s an interesting fact, right? That the MRA conference is being put together mostly by women. It’s at least a funny ironic fact.

My feminist friend Katie tells me that AVFM is actually an elaborate false flag operation by the Feminist High Council, to make the MRM look bad. I fear they’re making it a little too obvious.

Josh
Josh
5 years ago

@ Tanya

European countries aren’t half as large as the U.S. I met a German couple who thought they could cross the entire continental U.S. By car before it got dark.

booburry
5 years ago

That whole “The protesters from last year have VOWED to try and shut us down!!” reads like the emails you get from politicians trying to raise money.
“If we don’t hit back with huge donations tonight the Republicans will be able to do such and such!!!”

Kate Minter
Kate Minter
5 years ago

I genuinely hope the men who attend find value in it. I don’t get the impression that most of those men have money to waste.

James B (@zblongladder)

Somehow, I suspect they’ll be “breaking even” after paying Elam a hefty speaking fee.

Also, why is there a door price if the venue isn’t publicly disclosed?

davidknewton
davidknewton
5 years ago

Well, they’re all voluntarily poverty-stricken after taking the red pill and plain chicken breasts don’t come cheap these days.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

David K:
That’d what I was thinking. If the MGTOWs especially are supposed to have dropped out of society and given up on having real jobs (just like dear old Paulie) how the duck are they supposed to afford $399, excluding travel and hotel costs?

I know that MRAs are horrendously bad at logic, or lateral thinking, but come on now.

opium4themasses
5 years ago

@sunnysombrero
I think it would be less dropping out of the job market willingly and more getting fired for HR issues for making racist and/or sexist remarks, responding poorly to a woman manager, or harassment of co-workers. Then they get online and find it wasn’t their poor social skills but really feminism oppressing them which took their job away. Though honestly, a lot of them probably work in IT. The perfect place for self-important people to lord it over more competent folk who lack some specialized networking knowledge. I say this as someone who worked in IT jobs for years until I got my degree in IT. Glutton for punishment I guess.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

@opium
Ah. So the MGTOWs have jobs, largely, but refuse to abide by social standards that they see as oppression but everyone else sees as “How To Not Be A Raging Asshole”.

Hoosier X
5 years ago

@dhaga85

To me it just seems like they take advantage of the victories of feminism while attempting to shut the door on all other women.

That sounds like every female critic of feminism that I ever heard of.

Hoosier X
5 years ago

@josh

European countries aren’t half as large as the U.S. I met a German couple who thought they could cross the entire continental U.S. By car before it got dark.

Today the Appalachians!
Tomorrow the Pacific Ocean!

opium4themasses
5 years ago

@sunnysombrero They probably live rather mundane lives like most of us do. I imagine most of their rage is online and in the interpretation of any negative consequences or events they encounter.

Married, with kids. The wife rolling her eyes when the husband companies about the women in HR. Him being selfish and her eventually leaving him “suddenly and without warning”. Finally he lets out that bitterness at other people.

opium4themasses
5 years ago

Just to qualify, that is my thoughts on the matter. I am willing to be shown to be full of shit on this.

I write with far more assumed authority than I speak. I was taught to remove the usual qualifies when writing. Sorry about speaking pompously.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

@opium
Doesn’t seem that pompous to me. You are right that many of their grievances stem from the way they’ve interpreted situations, usually in a manner that absolves them of all guilt and places it on someone else. Hence the bitterness.

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

My husband is one of these people who reads these MRA discussions. He thinks that’s he’s above the most insane ravings of these people, but will agree with them ‘when they have a point’. Having tried to sort things out and discuss things the normal way – including engaging in proactive and cooperative discussions about divorce, I’ve since retreated into stealth mode. I will one day leave him ‘without warning’. Soon, I hope. My life is a misery.

maghavan
maghavan
5 years ago

This really inspired me to finally commit to starting my own convention.

I hearby announce HarassCon 2016.

HarassCon will be the first convention to cater to the much maligned and neglected community of Internet Harassers. HarassCon will bring together internet harassers of all kinds in a friendly and supportive environment. Racist? Misogynist? Homophobe? Just a plain ole’ Hater? There is a spot for you at HarassCon.

Keynote Speaches:
“The Ethics of Death & Rape Threats”
“The future of harassment: Why our culture will not only survive but thrive”.
“More Effective Sockpuppeteting”
“Sending Better Threats : How to Up Your Harassment Game”
“The Real Harassment of the Anti-Harassers”

Note: HarassCon intends to be a Safe Space for Internet Harassers. We have a strict code-of-conduct policy that all attendees must abide by. Failure to do so will result in your ejection.

dhag85
5 years ago

@rugbyyogi

Oh no. 🙁 Hugs if you want them.

tealily
tealily
5 years ago

I never know whether to think it’s depressing or funny that AVFM always has a bunch of women do all their work for them. Seriously, how am I expected to buy into the notion that men are superior civilization builders if none of them can get by without the (usually unpaid) labor of women to prop them up.

They completely prove feminist’s point. That women have always worked and contributed to society. We just got denied credit for it.

But we can’t forget that the only “real” work is the kind that involves a blue collar, work boots, using big, scary he-man muscles and sweating all day. Never mind that through history, a large portion, maybe even most, was not traditionally done by white men.

tealily
tealily
5 years ago

Darn….it’s that block quote monster. It was WWTH’s quote I used.

tealily
tealily
5 years ago

The protesters from last year have already vowed to shut us down this year and though we know they will not achieve their aim, they will still be protesting (as is their right, of course). Security and safety of our attendees, speakers and volunteer staff will always be of prime importance and so, to avoid a repeat of last year’s emergency appeal for funding, we have built into the costs additional but reasonable security cover.

I highly doubt this. If there is one thing most people have realized since the last joke of a conference, is that MRAs are their worst enemy. Those people will crash and burn on their own. Which is better, IMO.

tealily
tealily
5 years ago

You are doing the right thing, rugbyyogi.

My mother has 5 divorces under her belt due to her insistence on marrying the same type of person. The general mindset of a MRA-type does not lend to rational and cooperative engaging. They think they’re rational, but they are not. Everything is about getting even, and they will use your good-faith bargaining against you. Every. Time.

Stay strong and trust your gut!

Kate Minter
Kate Minter
5 years ago

rugbyyogi: “I will one day leave him ‘without warning’. Soon, I hope. My life is a misery.”

Oh, no. I remember this all too well. I hope you are able to turn it around. When I got divorced I thought all this men and women are different stuff was hogwash. Now, I don’t.

Men don’t ‘hear’ the way women do. Words mean more to most women than most men, which is why if you just left he would be surprised. (I am convinced that men don’t even have the same vision that women do. They appear to have a much more holistic vision, whereas our vision is much more detail-oriented.)

If you want to gain a man’s attention, it must be done through action (or, in some cases, inaction) NOT words. When I was married as a young person, I made the mistake of trying to communicate with a man as if he was a woman. I tried very hard, but I was doing the wrong things. If you can shift your perspective, it doesn’t take as much effort. I didn’t have to do *more*; I had to do things *differently*. And so did he.

I really recommend all of Dr. John Gray’s books to get into all the details. Best of luck. Have courage and faith!

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Uh…I’d take anything Mrs. Minter says with a grain of salt, rugbyyogi. She’s not exactly here in good faith.

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

Rubyyogi, I second Paradoxical’s comment. And best of luck to you. I was in a bad domestic situation before meeting my husband – fortunately, the man involved left on his own. His surprise came when he tried to come back.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@Kate Minter:

Men don’t ‘hear’ the way women do. Words mean more to most women than most men, which is why if you just left he would be surprised. (I am convinced that men don’t even have the same vision that women do. They appear to have a much more holistic vision, whereas our vision is much more detail-oriented.)

Uhhh… the hell? Men don’t “hear” or “see” the same way women do? Bullshit. You’ll find people across all genders who are more or less intuitive, or more or less observant, or more or less empathetic. There’s definitely a cultural influence that causes women to be required to care and listen to everyone around them, whereas men don’t get that same push, but it’s not some innate capacity. You do realize that Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus is basically just repeating modern stereotypes without any true validity, right?

I really recommend all of Dr. John Gray’s books to get into all the details.

Apparently not.

dhag85
5 years ago

Good thing there’s a man like John Gray who can explain to other men how women think. 🙂

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Kate, I’ve read some excerpts from his books, and I find him overwhelmingly reductionist and the way he describes the way women think/act is kind of…

… completely not me.

He only seems to describe a subset of men, but pretends he’s talking about a wide range. He’s not bad, but I wouldn’t hold him up as the epitome of “this is how all people need to communicate with their partners.”

Also, could you not pretend it’s only the wife’s job to adjust to the way her husband thinks? In a good relationship, I’d assume the guy would also do his best to try and understand the way his specific partner thinks and acts. You made a token acknowledgement of that with the “And so did he”, but you seem to imply that if rugbyyogi does as you did, their partner will also do the same.

There’s absolutely no guarantee that said partner will be anywhere near willing to try and do anything differently.

…or that he thinks like Dr. Gray thinks he does.

(Dr. Gray isn’t awful, just… doesn’t acknowledge that there’s more of a spectrum as much as I’d like. I mean, there’s not much of a spectrum even implied when your catchphrase for everything says men and women are from completely different planets in a time period where there aren’t little habitable colonies between the two where people can chill)

katz
5 years ago

I am convinced that men don’t even have the same vision that women do. They appear to have a much more holistic vision, whereas our vision is much more detail-oriented.

No wonder my husband is having so much trouble painting teeny-tiny skulls onto his chaos demons.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Ninja’d by everyone.

Katz, your husband sounds cool, for the record. Also, way more detail oriented than me.

dhag85
5 years ago

Women are from Omicron Persei 7, men are from Omicron Persei 9.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

I never really knew what Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus actually meant… Now I know. Gray argues that men are the actors, the doers, while women are the talkers, the passive receptacles. Apparently the vast percentage of the advice in the book is directed toward women, urging them to be compliant to their husbands.

Get it? Because Mars is the God of War, and Venus is the Goddess of Beauty?

(Source)

Up to this point, the bulk of John Gray’s advice has been to women. They’ve been told how to change in ways that make their men feel accepted, trusted, and appreciated. Page after page is chock full of pointers and suggestions to help Stepford hopefuls cultivate a successful relationship–at least as Gray would define one. As for men, Gray has told these accomplished cave dwellers that it is absolutely essential to reassure their partners by uttering those words that Arnold Schwarzeneggar made famous: “I’ll be back.” In short, Gray has made no secret of his belief that the balance of power should be with the male half of a heterosexual relationship.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

I figured it had to be something like that if Kate Minter was singing its praises.

rugbyyogi
5 years ago

There’s a shit ton of marriage advice books that are bad news. I’ve read more than a few. Men are from Mars..etc is definitely ranking up there. (Didn’t read it all) Yes, it gives men excuses and encourages the women to change, but it also infantilises men and gives women excuses to behave childishly, too – because they can’t help it, y’know. That’s stereotypes for you. Anyone who advises that book is gonna get the rest of their advice marked down accordingly.

But Kate Minter is right, he doesn’t hear me. Partly because he can’t see past reductionist, self-absolving shit like MRA or Men are From Mars. And he’s already knows bloody well that I don’t fit the stereotype of ‘typical woman’ (as if anyone does).

Like most of these MRA blokes he wants to have the upper hand, but can’t quite define what that means, and certainly won’t take the steps to actually be an equal partner, never mind a leader – like actually make a decision or do stuff. These guys are the ultimate ‘rights without responsibility’ whiners.

Anyway, Mars is too cold and Venus is too hot, but Earth, in places, can be just right.

Tracy
Tracy
5 years ago

@rugbyyogi sorry to hear that. Not a fun place to be. Hang in there. 🙂

@kate what @contrapangloss said. Nothing in there describes me, or my husband, very well at all. ie: the whole thing about ‘the cave’ is far more me than my husband (my sister is very much this way as well).

For anyone interested in Gray’s theorectum about ‘the cave’:

Men go into a “cave.” This is a place where they can be alone, work out and solve problems, or just generally go to unwind. Indeed, in chapter five Gray lists the specific reasons why men retreat into a cave. First, “he needs to think about a problem and find a practical solution.” (70) Second, “he doesn’t have an answer to a question or problem.” (70) Third, “he has become upset or stressed.” (70) And, finally, “he needs to find himself . . . too much intimacy robs them of their power.” (70) After this retreat, a man emerges from the cave feeling “rejuvenated” and, as a result, is able to tap into his “loving and powerful self again.” (70)

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

And don’t worry! Gray hasn’t forgotten about women with his cave metaphor! Men are intellectuals with caves to retreat to, women are cyclical waves with wells of emotion to drown in.

“A woman is like a wave,” writes Gray. “When she feels loved her self-esteem rises and falls in a wave motion.” (112) Sometimes they’re up and then quite suddenly they’re down. However, the good “doctor” cautions us that this “crash” is only temporary. “After she reaches bottom suddenly her mood will shift and she will again feel good about herself. Automatically she begins to rise back up.” (112) Not to worry! This “crash” is, apparently, a good thing. To help women and men better understand it , Gray chose a charming domestic metaphor to explain the process: “This time of bottoming out,” he writes, “is a time for emotional housecleaning.” (112)

“My wife Bonnie,” writes the Columbia Pacific scholar, “says this experience of going down’ is like going down into a dark well. When a woman goes into her well’ she is consciously sinking into her unconscious self, into darkness and diffused feeling. She may suddenly experience a host of unexplained emotions and vague feelings. She may feel hopeless, thinking she is all alone and unsupported.” (113) This is a very important concept for men to understand, for how a woman feels about herself is directly related to the relationship. Indeed, Gray says that if a woman is “not feeling as good about herself [then] she is unable to be as accepting and appreciative of her partner.” (113) This is paramount, for we all know by now that acceptance and appreciation for men should be a cornerstone of female behavior. But during a woman’s “down times,” Gray asserts that she “tends to be overwhelmed or more emotionally reactive.” (113)

katz
5 years ago

The “cave” thing is just saying “all women are extraverts, all men are introverts.” Which is not true at all.

Nitram
5 years ago

Rubyogi,

Very sorry you are going through this and in misery. Sounds like you’re close. When u are ready, you’ll feel so proud and brave. I do know it’s the hardest thing to do. Sending strong thoughts.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

Men are not some kind of alien species. They don’t have their own form of communication that women can learn to mime but never understand.

If a man is an asshole, the key word is asshole. Not man. Men are just as capable of “emotional intelligence” as women, and if a man chooses not to make an attempt at exercising his, that is a choice he is making.

We keep telling misogynist men that women are people and should be treated like people. The reverse goes as well: men are people, not aliens.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Tracy, I totally agree with you on the cave. I want the cave. The good doctor can take his wave and keep it where the sun shines bright, but I like my cave!

Also: Theorectum. I like this word very, very much. May I steal it?

Kate Minter
Kate Minter
5 years ago

rugbyyogi: Can you give an example of a small problem in your relationship and a big problem in your relationship?

Would you categorize the issue as “I can’t stand to be in the same room as this person/he drives me crazy/I don’t want him touching me” or is there adultery, abuse, or addiction that is going on?

What five things would you change about him if you could? Is there anything about yourself you’d like to change?