Hey ladies who support gay rights! Has it ever occurred to you that by supporting gay rights, you’ll end up turning more men gay, and then there won’t be any straight men left to marry you?
Wait, you’re saying that hasn’t occurred to you?
Well, it’s definitely occurred to some dude who calls himself Aper on the MGTOWHQ forum. Let’s let him explain:
Most women support gay rights, even the ultra conservative ones from what I’ve seen. Are they unknowingly shooting themselves in the foot by doing so?
Go on.
My opinion on homosexuality is that a small number of people are born gay, maybe with a “gay gene” activated or something of the sort, or brain of the opposite gender, but most gays are created by their environment (upbringing, lack of sexual interest from the opposite sex, etc.).
Yeah, I don’t think it quite works like that.
Think back to when you were 13-14 years old. I was perved out of my mind then, beating off like 2-3 times a day while looking at porn mags and the yearbook pics of girls I wanted to bang. I never once was attracted to men or even thought about being attracted to men, at least partially because that was completely taboo when and where I grew up.
Ok, that’s a bit TMI, but please continue.
Nowadays, it’s different to the point where … it’s almost celebrated to be gay. So take a normal 13-14 year old guy today. He might be hornier than the past generations were since sex is everywhere now. He’s probably not successful in talking to girls, let alone in getting laid (80/20 rule).
Yeah, ok, that “80/20 rule” is pure manosphere bullshit, but it’s true that the overwhelming majority of 13-14 year old boys are not having sex. And not just because girls are snobby.
What would happen if he was approached by another male teen, who asked him if he wanted to “experiment?” If that would’ve happened when I grew up, we would’ve whooped some ass, but think about the current times. That’s becoming increasingly normally.
It’s becoming normally?
What I’m getting at is what if a young guy, horny out of his mind, decides to experiment? Once a guy crosses that line, deciding to sleep with other males, why would he cross back over to women?
Uh, maybe because he’s, you know, not actually gay?
He’d go from getting easy sex anytime to playing games with broads, getting the run around for weeks, and if he finally manages to score, it would probably be some half ass vanilla BS. What man would leave the former lifestyle for the latter?
Probably a straight guy?
Speaking of which, Aper wants everyone to know that he is as straight as a sack full of hammers — ok, I don’t know what that expression means, I just made it up. But time-travelling counterfactual alternative history Aper? He might go the gay way.
Your ol’ pal Aper is as straight as can be. I’ve been approached by guys before and turned them down with no second thoughts and I’d like to think that there’s nothing that could have “turned me gay” in my youth, but I can’t be completely sure how I would’ve turned out if I was a teen today.
This leads Aper to wonder if women aren’t sowing the seeds of their own spinsterhood:
Are modern women turning more and more horny teens gay with a combo of their shitty attitudes and increasing tolerance, and even force feeding, of gay rights, and in the process effectively creating more men that won’t be dealing with their sorry asses anytime in the near future?
Hmm. That sounds pretty dire for the ladies.
But wait. Two can play this game. Couldn’t modern women just go gay themselves and gay marry each other?
Oh, but then they wouldn’t be able to leech off men. Damn, ladies, it looks like you’re screwed — figuratively, not literally, at least in the heterosexual sense. Yep, it sure looks like it’s CHECKMATE MEN.
As Aper’s MGTOWHQ comrade OU812 notes delightedly,
If the revulsion straight men have to homosexual activity is purely cultural, women will be absolutely screwed should the taboos fall away. Imagine — men offered sexual release with partners who want nothing more than to get off with them — no emotional support demanded, no financial support demanded, no social duties demanded — just sex. Holy fuck they would be screwed. It would be awesome if true.
But he is quick to add that he doesn’t swing that way, nosirreebob. His sexual tastes are a little more specialized.
Personally, I’d sooner fuck a cantaloupe.
ManWithAPlan sees another benefit to the gay thing:
I don’t know about going gay … but there’s one advantage, gay marriage. If they ever put a brutal bachelor tax, you can always marry your best buddy who shares the same ideals, get a prenup, and do your own thing.
Heck, there’s even an Adam Sandler movie about that.
Meanwhile, someone calling himself dubya (probably not the former president) offers an almost Reichian analysis of sexual repression.
If you’re depending on males to carry the nation, you can’t have them acting like Dennis Rodman. They have to be clean cut, macho, have the proper male interests growing up like exploration, taking things apart, they can’t be even the least bit gay or engaged in any kind of hedonism. They should be domineering and entitled.
Because that’s the only way they’ll be able to complete a life of service to society, women and the state.
If men start getting hedonistic ideas like running around in a tutu, growing their hair long, sucking each others dicks, and such, that breaks down the country.
In a way, feminism is almost like a male revolution.
It freed us and enslaved women, now THEY have to be clean cut, macho, domineering and so forth for the life of service and benefit to the state while MEN can now be totally hedonistic and a bunch of dudebros.
Huh. Apologies to Messrs. Reich and Rodman, but I don’t think it’s quite that simple.
There are a few MGTOWHQers who aren’t quite so enamored of the gay hypothesis, or gay people in general.
As The Running Man sees it,
gay people are the ENEMY of men. They nearly always side with women, liberals and feminists and of course various NGO, SJW political activists who are the scum of the earth.
DruidV has an even more basic objection:
No offense to anyone, but I could never look at another Man’s hairy, furry ass, and fall in love.
So maybe the women of the world are safe, for now.
Straight men don’t use arguments like that. Gays who are closeted use arguments like that. They’re terrified that the stigma and shame associated with homosexuality is the only thing keeping them from living according to their natural orientation.
I believe this “aper” is a closeted homosexual. He may not be doing it consciously, but he’s appealing to women not in an effort to help them, but in an effort to enlist their aid in keeping his sexual behavior heterosexual. “Oppose gay marriage so I can have the willpower not to slob knobs at glory-holes!”
It’s kind of amazing how homophobes so frequently make their slavish worship of toxic masculinity sound like the self-hating rationalizations of a closeted person with all their obsession about “being turned” or how “easy” it is to become gay.
GOM-
I think the fear of gay men comes from a) defining masculinity as “not being anything like a woman”, so if straight women like men, then gay men must be just like that and should be treated that way. This also reinforces hate crimes and bashing because it becomes necessary in this toxic culture to show your resistance to anything “gay” so that you’re not deemed a “woman” by your toxic peers.
And b) Fearing that gay men will treat them like they do women. That if being a predator and a rapist are “natural male behaviors” like they claim and men “can’t help it”, then clearly a gay man will treat them in all the shitty ways they treat women. After all, if they are pushy and try and force themselves on those that aren’t interested, then gay men will totally do that to them to and then they’ll be infected with the gay cooties that feed the a-section.
Of course this isn’t true, but projection is kind of their stock in trade.
For a bunch of supposedly straight guy they seen to really like the idea if having sex with, and getting married to, men.
Yes, homophobia does make more sense as part of the rather vicious gender-role policing that goes on among young males than it does considered by itself. And there is definitely a great fear in some straight men that gay men will look at them the way they themselves look at women — they don’t like that idea one bit.
The thing is, human sexuality is extremely diverse and variable, no matter how hard society tries to cram it all into two or a few little boxes. There have been times when homosexual relationships have been condoned or even encouraged (as in ancient Greece) and apparently at those times a fairly large percentage of men engaged in them. There is an interesting book, The Crimson Letter, which explores homoeroticism at Harvard in the period roughly between the Civil War and World War II. One of the interesting parallels between the Greeks and Harvard 1870-1920 (you might call it the Santayana era, after its most imposing figure) is that in both periods access to the intellectual life for women was somewhere between very restricted and non-existent, so if an intellectual man wanted to have a sexual relationship with an intellectual equal it would almost have to be with another man — and a large number of such relationships did develop. This suggests that genital identity may be a lot less important to the development of loving relationships than our society tends to believe — that, in a less restricting society, a lot more people might be at least bisexual.
One of my daughters is gay and something of a gay rights activist, and she gave me her old truck which is plastered with pro-gay bumper stickers, and sometimes that leads to conversations. Occasionally someone asks me what I think about her being gay, and after having considered the matter back when she came out, my answer is that I have no opinion. Basically, I don’t believe that I have a right to have an opinion about someone else’s sexuality — it is their life, and their choice. And I don’t think I’ll ever really understand why anyone thinks they have a right to an opinion about someone else’s sexuality (consenting adults assumed).
I don’t know why, but I found this hilarious. “Hi, I’m Chad. I enjoy exploration, and taking things apart.” lol, ok.
Growing up, my best friend and I spent most of our time exploring: fields, the creek, abandoned houses, trains, cemetaries, an abandoned mental hospital, underground tunnels from WW2, etc*. We got quite good at breaking and entering, actually; usually abandoned places, but also trailers at her summer trailer park in the off season (we never took anything… we did once hook up someone’s Atari so we could play). I guess we were female-ing wrong.
*I grew up in a small town with some interesting history
Imagine — men offered sexual release with partners who want nothing more than to get off with them — no emotional support demanded, no financial support demanded, no social duties demanded — just sex.
He just described me in my 20s…
If you’re depending on males to carry the nation, you can’t have them acting like Dennis Rodman. They have to be clean cut, macho, have the proper male interests growing up like exploration, taking things apart, they can’t be even the least bit gay or engaged in any kind of hedonism.
Cause all that gay sexing really got in the way of Alexander the Great’s ambitions.
A buggah. I don’t know how to quote stuff yet. Graah!
To quote:
<blockquote>
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(now the moment of truth, did contrapangloss html right?
Contrapangloss html’d right! Whoot!
Only, then I failed to close the parenthesis on that last comment subcomment.
Ooh, let’s try that
Cool.
Hey contrapanglos,
how did you manage to write
with the words vanishing?
I’m guessing ‘magic’.
Ah, just proved it *was* magic.
For some reason my posts keep disappearing… Let’s try this one as a test.
Use < to make < and use > to make >
Finally. Yeesh. No idea what was going on there.
But yeah, you can use those HTML codes to put in symbols that won’t be interpreted as HTML.
It’s sorcery. This is a widely-accepted fact.
—Your ol’ pal Aper is as straight as can be. I’ve been approached by guys before and turned them down with no second thoughts and I’d like to think that there’s nothing that could have “turned me gay” in my youth…—
Are you sure this isn’t ripped out of an old “Jim Anchower” from The Onion?
Interesting. Normally I see the mra’s constantly believing that sexuality is easily changed in one gender and stuck permanently in the other….but usually it comes across as women, who are all secretly bi sexual to fulfil fantasies, whereas men are rock solid straight, or rock solid gay, never changing, not even tempted once, no spree bob.
This seems to be the first time the genders have been flipped.
I see one positive element in this, a core of (subconscious?) recognition that the world is organized to favour the majority of men. Otherwise, the natural MRA position would seem to be to pull out all the stops to increase *male* homosexuality, thus increasing the value and power of straight men. In a variation on the (vile) Jimmy Beck theory, more men going gay = more women going spare = easy/easier Alpha status.
There could be a split among anti-feminist camps here. PUAs might well think the game too easy if there weren’t enough competition. And while MGTOWs are more against the tradcon religiosity behind a lot of anti-gay sentiment, they have natural resentment with which to cope; it’s not *fair* to a good number of MGTOWs that gay men can “go their own way” with no relative cost compared to their own sacrifices of love and relationships.
@Alan:
What Kirby typed! I can’t remember whether it was Kirby or Fibi who originally told me that trick, but one of them is the supreme archmage of HTML magic…
“Imagine — men offered sexual release with partners who want nothing more than to get off with them — no emotional support demanded, no financial support demanded, no social duties demanded — just sex.
But then all of these men would be all used-up sluts who have no other value than sex, non-traditional men who only want to ride the cock carousel and so should be replaced with sex-bots and… oh, only women can be judge like that, I forgot.
Because all gay men have such drsma-free and uncomplicated love/sex lives …
This is to some degree true. I was Bisexual during my teen years but after realising how much women suck i quickly became gay. Many men have suppressed homoerotic tendencies and when they realise this truth the same thing will happen.
As a queer lady with like… what….97% of my attraction to pretty women, if all men went gay, that’s fine. Before I turned 8, I was still under the impression that most of the world just HAD to be gay. Men with men and women with women made absolute sense in my mind. To this day…. it still kind of does. Around 8 years old, I began to really REALLY look at books and media, then it all clicked. Men and men and women and women understand each other a little better and the same gender sex is proven to be better too.
Just because a guy is gay doesn’t mean we can’t talk, get a job done, be friends or share some common interests. I’ll still be getting my sex jollies from women so I see no problem. Men do make great friends, so having a 100% guarantee that they won’t catch feelings would be awesome sauce. Even though men are gay, a lot still want babies, so even in this alternate universe gay world, they’ll have to hit some women up to volunteer for the turkey baster pregnancy and oversee the adoption papers and such.
Oh, and the OP sounds closeted af.