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#gamergate antifeminism dark enlightenment davis aurini dudes who look like anton lavey entitled babies evil SJWs gross incompetence jordan owen men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny red pill sarkeesian! yeah that's the ticket YouTube

Exciting new opportunity for Sarkeesian Effect backers to flush more $$ down the toilet! (Also, funny video)

Tub Boy and Professor Skull
Tub Boy and Professor Skull

There’s some great news for supporters of The Sarkeesian Effect, the seemingly random collection of badly filmed interviews with assorted people who dislike Anita Sarkeesian that is allegedly being edited into a film of some kind!

In a new video, Jordan Owen — the hairier of the two Sarkeesian Effect impresarios — has announced an amazing new opt-out opportunity for the alleged film’s backers to donate money to him and his pal (then enemy, then pal again) Davis Aurini.

Owen reports that, even though they’re supposedly already done filming their alleged film, the two have somehow managed to work out a way to do some more filming “that we didn’t think that we’d be able to do but it’s really going to tie the movie together,” much like the non-big Lebowski’s famously peed-on rug, I guess.

Now, Owen won’t provide any details — which, he suggests, might have something vaguely to do with the Honey Badgers’ recent escapade in Calgary? — but apparently it is a quite exciting filming opportunity and it somehow requires another month’s worth of funding for the alleged film, and unless the project’s backers specifically opt out by the end of the month they’re going to get charged for it!

It’s all very ethical.

In the video, Owen also invites supporters to check out the amazingly professional web site they have up for their amazing film at TheSarkeesianEffect.com. I would also highly recommend that you check it out; it is in every way up to the exacting standards the two are known for.

And before I forget, I’d like to mention some great news for fans of the unintentional comedy that the Sarkeesian Effect duo provide almost every time they open their mouths.

A couple of Sarkeesian Effect mockers — Andrew Todd from badassdigest.com and @kav_p from Twitter — have come into the possession of puppets that, as Kav P puts it, look “startlingly similar” to the Sarkeesian Effect duo. They plan to produce a series of short videos starring said puppets.

Here’s the theme song for the series, which they call MRAsterpiece Theater. You may notice that despite costing nothing to anyone but the two people who made it, this video somehow manages to look and sound a lot more professional than anything the actual Sarkeesian Effect dudes have produced so far.

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the 4th survivor
the 4th survivor
5 years ago

You guys have really horrible reading comprehension. Like really bad. You’re setting the bar pretty low for your feminist movement. Lower than it already is I mean.

First off I never said women just started gaming and if you guys weren’t obsessed with twisted my words around to push your agenda maybe you’d have noticed that. I said “when women started gaming in larger numbers.” I’ll make it super easy to understand for you. Women are a minority in gaming today. They were a smaller minority in the 00’s and an even smaller minority in the 90’s. Not so hard to understand is it?

You can sit there all you want and act like you know about the demographics but developers know their audience better than you would. They have to know or else they would lose money and eventually go out of business. Video gaming is the way it is because that’s what the market dictates. For you guys to argue otherwise you’re basically saying that developers have been choosing to give up profit and for what? Because they’re just that sexist? It doesn’t work that way. Even if we assume developers are the evil sexist jerks that you apparently believe they are, they wouldn’t give up millions of dollars for that.

Now for the people telling me the market doesn’t work the way I say it does, you’re wrong. It does work that way for video games. If I own a toy company and I know the toys I make only appeal to maybe 20% of the market, that’s okay because most toys are cheap and easy to mass produce. Video games are not. It takes anywhere from months to several years to design a single game and they can cost tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars to make. Developers just don’t have the time and money to make games that appeal to every minority group out there.

Even something as simple as adding a female character isn’t always that simple. Ya know what? Let’s think about this a different way. Let’s imagine for a second that “masculinists” were demanding they add a male protagonist to Tomb Raider alongside Lara Croft. Do you know how hard that would be? They would have to design this character from the ground up, find a way to add him to the story whether it made sense or not, they would have to hire a voice and mocap actor for him, they would have to test him to make sure there were no glitches, etc. All this stuff takes money and manpower and also time. Video game development teams don’t have unlimited money and time to work with and all the resources they use up trying to add “diversity” to the game they could use for more important things like, ya know, improving the gameplay.

In regards to this feminist idea that women are harassed more than men online, this article written by a reluctant feminist named Cathy Young goes against that: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/04/men-are-harassed-more-than-women-online.html

Also I remember reading in an article a couple months ago that male gamers are more likely to be harassed than female gamers. If I can find that I’ll be sure to post it. I think the more likely truth is that harassment doesn’t happen any more to women, we just focus on it more because society treats women like special snowflakes we and expect men to just put up with it.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Oh 4th troll,
I read the article. It’s discussing a study done with a small sample of public figures. It also doesn’t appear to analyze the severity of abuse. It just counts instances. Calling a man a stupid asshole is the not the same as telling a woman you’re going to go to her house and rape her. It also doesn’t make the point that men may be subject to abuse for being part of a marginalized group such as black, gay, mentally ill etc.

The article and you are setting up a false dilemma too. Saying that misogyny is a problem online does not mean that we’re saying no men are threatened and harassed.

Another big glaring problem with that article, she makes the claim that telling a man he has male privilege is abusive. No. She accuses women of wanting special treatment but thinks men have the right to not be told their gender makes them privileged? I don’t think she knows what abuse is.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Oh, and nobody here has ever said men should put up with harassment.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago
the 4th survivor
the 4th survivor
5 years ago

@Weirwood

Did you actually read the whole thing? If you did you would have seen that it wasn’t just limited to public figures. You say it’s “different” when a woman is threatened with rape than when a man is called an asshole or whatever. Well first of all let me assure you I’ve heard gamers call each other much worse things than that. Much worse. Besides that, I really don’t think it is all that different. Trolls say things like that to get a rise out of the victim. They know threatening rape or saying get back in the kitchen, make me a sandwich, etc. is something that will upset a majority of women so that’s what they say. How many of them actually drive across the country to that person’s house and try to make good on their promise? Gonna guess the answer is zero. While we’re at it, how many people have showed up at Anita Sarkeesian’s house to try and rape or kill her? Again I’m guessing the answer to that is none. They’re trolls and they do what trolls have always done whether women were around or not.

You can tell me my gender makes me privileged all you want as long as you accept that being female makes you privileged also.

Oh here’s another article by the way. It’s not about gamers either but it points out how left wing social justice warriors can be just as bad as you think red pillers are:

http://thoughtcatalog.com/joshua-goldberg/2014/12/when-social-justice-warriors-attack-one-tumblr-users-experience/

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

Hey, 4th, so you realize that article provides no actual proof of harassment? Now don’t take me wrong, SJWs, like any group that includes human beings, has it outliers that harass people, and they are wrong. But the article you posted? Has no links to the actual harassment, it just has… pictures. That could have been designed in photoshop. And are not linked back to the actual harassment. Did you read it?

Nameless Wonder
Nameless Wonder
5 years ago

“You’re just as bad as I am! I will say this without proof and demand you believe it because I’m a MAN and what I say is magically true. But don’t you DARE call me privileged!”

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Oh, 4th Assbag, you fail so hard. Thought Catalog is where idiots go to whine. Or pick up material for “gotcha!” raids that don’t, in fact, get a single thing.

Go cry, emo kid.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

What’s Thought Catalog and why is it bad?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Thought Catalog as a citation. LOL. Didn’t read. I guess it’s better than Infowars.

the 4th survivor
the 4th survivor
5 years ago

Thought Catalog wasn’t the proof. The guy who wrote the article provided several examples of leftists bullying others but the lefties here don’t want to believe that would ever happen so that means the pictures must have been photoshopped.

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

4th, he did not provide proof because he did not link to anything. Why is it unreasonable to want links to verify what he says?

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

“What do you mean you want ‘sources’ and ‘validation’?! I posted a link from a place that doesn’t provide links to sources! Is that not acceptable to you leftie femucommunazis?!”

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

4th survivor, for the amount of lurking you do around here, I’m surprised at how badly you seem to grasp the problems that feminists have with video games. Here’s a teal dear for you, because I’m in a bad mood and my bullshit tolerance is at an all-time low.

Women are a minority in gaming today. They were a smaller minority in the 00’s and an even smaller minority in the 90’s. Not so hard to understand is it?

Yes, women were not welcome in gaming because it was seen as a boy thing because sexism, and now we are finally living in a world where there are just as many women who play video games as there are men.

Unless you’re talking about a video game that requires you to stick your penis into to actually play, VIDEO GAMES ARE NOT TIED TO A SPECIFIC gender.

The only reason so few women were playing video games was because video games were overtly hostile to women. Even today, video games continue to paint a world as ‘gritty’ but showcasing gratuitous examples of violence against women. Geez, I wonder if that might make women less interested in playing video games?

You can sit there all you want and act like you know about the demographics but developers know their audience better than you would. They have to know or else they would lose money and eventually go out of business. Video gaming is the way it is because that’s what the market dictates.

Yeah no, a self-fulfilling prophesy is hardly proof. Video games became a boys club thing for no good reason, and you can keep kicking and screaming all you want, but that’s coming to an end (and about fucking time).

Video gaming is the way it is because that’s what the market dictates.

Right, just like how action movies are always featuring guys and couldn’t possibly have a female protagonist otherwise all men will hate it.

Oh wait.

For you guys to argue otherwise you’re basically saying that developers have been choosing to give up profit and for what? Because they’re just that sexist? It doesn’t work that way. Even if we assume developers are the evil sexist jerks that you apparently believe they are, they wouldn’t give up millions of dollars for that.

So many logical fallacies here.

First, you assume that developers appealing to women will AUTOMATICALLY drive away a male audience. And this is completely bullshit. Do tell, do you actually believe that the vast majority of male gamers are going to go: “what the hell? There’s no sexy woman who exists only to be rescued in this game! This means it sucks and I won’t play it” or “damn, this female character has a personality and her own goals and her own influence on the plot, this game is terrible, I’d rather she just be there looking pretty”.

Btw, Star Guardian Lux came out the other day on league of legends. Strangely, a lot of dudes didn’t decide to quit LoL, even though the skin itself is as girly as can be.

Second, you seem to think that we consider developers to be “evil sexist jerks”. You need to provide some evidence for this, when did we call developers “evil sexist jerks”? Or is this one of your other unfounded assumptions? Well, obviously they are sexist, but not because they are ‘evil’ or ‘jerks’ but because of deep-seated sexist tropes that exist in much of the media and culture.

Video games are not. It takes anywhere from months to several years to design a single game and they can cost tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars to make. Developers just don’t have the time and money to make games that appeal to every minority group out there.

Wow, you just called 50% of the population a “minority group”. I can’t even. This point is already debunked because the premise that very few women play video games is very obviously false, but I bring it up because you’re making another bullshit assumption:

That women are the only ones who care about the representation of women in video games. Well fuck you. I’m a guy, and I very much care about the representation of women in video games. And I know for a fact that I’m not the only one.

Even something as simple as adding a female character isn’t always that simple. Ya know what? Let’s think about this a different way. Let’s imagine for a second that “masculinists” were demanding they add a male protagonist to Tomb Raider alongside Lara Croft.

Um, hi there hypothetical guy. May I introduce you to the VAST COLLECTION OF GAMES IN WHICH FEATURE A MALE PROTAGONIST? Have fun, you’ve got PLENTY of options to choose from.

This argument is so flawed that it can only exist in a world where 90% of video games have female characters and most of the male ones are heavily objectified and sexualized. Since we do not, in fact, live in such a world, you lose. Do not pass Go, Do not collect $200.

Also, since when do feminists demand that “every” video game ever must have a male and female protagonist side-by-side? There’s nothing wrong with having a male protagonist in a video game. This is just another straw-man you made up because you fail to grasp even the simplest of concerns that feminists have with video games. You and pretty much the entire GamerGate movement for that matter.

Video game development teams don’t have unlimited money and time to work with and all the resources they use up trying to add “diversity” to the game they could use for more important things like, ya know, improving the gameplay.

Right, because in your imaginary game design company, the concept artists apparently moonlight as code monkeys. That seems highly inefficient.

In regards to this feminist idea that women are harassed more than men online, this article written by a reluctant feminist named Cathy Young goes against that:

WWTH already debunked this, but I want to add, the idea of ‘which gender gets more harrassment’ is not an accurate assessment of the problem.

Here’s one of MANY problems: A woman voices her opinion about sexism in video games, and she is harassed before she can even create her video series. Be honest with me, do you think that is fair? If so, why? I’d really like to know. I think it’s because there are a lot of (predominantly male) gamers who are completely incapable of handling criticism.

The saddest part of all is that what you’re defending isn’t even worth defending. The damsel in distress trope, exploitive violence against women to paint a game as ‘gritty’ are all lazy excuses that developers use to AVOID having to come up with meaningful motivations or put effort into the setting of a world. I think game developers can to better than that.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

@the 4 Survivor

Did you actually read the whole thing? If you did you would have seen that it wasn’t just limited to public figures.

You’re wrong. The Daily Beast has a link to the press release and they studied tweets sent to celebrities, politicians, journalists and musicians.

http://demos.co.uk/press_releases/demosmalecelebritiesreceivemoreabuseontwitterthanwomen

There’s also a link to the list of abusive words which include: xrated, willies, wanker, wang, vulva, vagina, turd, tosser, tit, testicle, son of a bitch, smut, shitty, shite, shag, sex, semen, scrotum, schlong, sadist, porn, poop, pissed, penis, pawn, mutha, masturbate, lust, lmfao, labia, knob, horny, goddamn, fellatio, dildo, damn, cunnilingus, crap, butt, bum, breast, boobs, bestial, balls, ass.

Word not included on list of abusive words: kill, stab, punch, slit, shut up, shoot, die, slap, kick, suicide, rape and any variation of the word rape

Also, the fact that the female journalists are attacked more fits in with pattern of opinionated women of lesser stature, fame and resources are the most popular target.

To Male Celebrities To Female Celebrities

Overall Tweets 192015 242325

Abusive Tweets 9964 (5.19%) 3309 (1.37%)
Abusive Tweets from Women 2370 (23.79%) 564 (17.04%)
Abusive Tweets from men 7395 (74.22%) 2064 (62.38%)

To male Journalists To Female Journalists

Overall Tweets 45792 60048

Abusive Tweets 898 (1.96%) 3136 (5.22%)
Abusive Tweets from Women 260 (28.95%) 1198 (38.2%)
Abusive Tweets from Men 623 (69.38%) 1892 (60.33%)

To male Politicians To female politicans

Overall Tweets 230342 111909

Abusive Tweets 11865 (5.15%) 873 (0.78%)
Abusive Tweets from Women 3152 (26.57%) 250 (28.64%)
Abusive Tweets from Men 8531 (71.9%) 615 (70.45%)

To male musicians to female musicians

Overall Tweets 509635 614550

Abusive Tweets 2095 (0.41%) 2506 (0.41%)
Abusive Tweets from women 283 (13.51%) 868 (34.64%)
Abusive Tweets from men 1812 (86.49%) 1514 (60.42%)

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

There’s also a link to the list of abusive words which include: xrated, willies, wanker, wang, vulva, vagina, turd, tosser, tit, testicle, son of a bitch, smut, shitty, shite, shag, sex, semen, scrotum, schlong, sadist, porn, poop, pissed, penis, pawn, mutha, masturbate, lust, lmfao, labia, knob, horny, goddamn, fellatio, dildo, damn, cunnilingus, crap, butt, bum, breast, boobs, bestial, balls, ass.

Word not included on list of abusive words: kill, stab, punch, slit, shut up, shoot, die, slap, kick, suicide, rape and any variation of the word rape

I want to highlight the, uh, quirkiness of the list of words they consider abusive.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

That threats weren’t the study but knob and butt and tosser were is telling. Meanwhile there was a story just today about Brianna Wu getting death threats at her home phone.

Nameless Wonder
Nameless Wonder
5 years ago

Word not included on list of abusive words: kill, stab, punch, slit, shut up, shoot, die, slap, kick, suicide, rape and any variation of the word rape

Because rape is the favored threat of twitter trolls, this explains why the study is slanted toward men. Men don’t typically receive rape threats, women do. If they counted rape, women would literally eclipse the ratio of people receiving threats on Twitter.

Oh, I guess I’m mistaken that a rape threat means anything if it’s directed at a woman. Speaking of rape threats, how can women be constantly lying about rape when women are constantly threatened with it – by men? Antifeminist beliefs never cease to befuddle me.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Wait. A study about threats and they didn’t count any threats? Yeah, the only question is if they did that for their own benefit or if they were paid off.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

The press release says they were measuring “abuse”, but their word list has terms that would literally offend no one, like “sex”, and doesn’t include a single word involving violence. I have no idea how they can defend finding clinical terms for genitalia more abusive then the word rape. It would have been nice if The Daily Beast did more than just badly summarize the press release, because the word list completely discredits this study.

Demos categorised tweets as offensive if they contained one or more of the abusive words included in Google’s search language filter

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

OFFENSIVE WORD LIST FUN FACTS (Note: I didn’t censor some salty language that isn’t harsh slurs but I apologize if I missed something.)

Note: This list as an almost endless sex and genitalia terms that could potentially be used in a anti-gay or misogynistic way.

For women:
Bitch – 12 variations (including bitchin and bitching)
C*** – 2 variations
Slut – 2 variations
Whore – 8 variations

For minorities:

Gay men:
Ass f***** – 3 variations
Bugger
F***** – 7 variations
Fudge P****** – 2 variations
Gayl***
Homo
Nobjockey – 2 variations

Lesbians:
Carpet M******
Dy**
Homo

Trans:
Hes**
Shem***

Ableism:
Ret***
Spac

East Asians:
Ch***
Jap

Black People:
C***
N***** – 10 variations

POC other than Japanese, Chinese or Black people:
Nothing. There are four racial slurs on this list of offensive words, a list that has six variations of “cyberfucking”.

Words that I had to look up and/or confused me:
Bellend
Buceta
Bunny Fucker
Cipa
Cyalis???
Dirsa – This one stumped me.
Donkeyribber
Flang
Teez

*Forgot to add that they thinks this word makes a tweet offensive to a Brit: BLOODY*

Newt
Newt
5 years ago

Forgot to add that they thinks this word makes a tweet offensive to a Brit: BLOODY

They’d be right to think that. Hardly anybody remembers why it’s offensive, but it’s still considered strong language if used for emphasis. Nowhere near as strong as “fucking”, but more than “damned”.

gilshalos
5 years ago

By Our Lady = Bloody

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@gilshalos

I thought it was the blood of Christ?

the 4th survivor
the 4th survivor
5 years ago

4th survivor, for the amount of lurking you do around here, I’m surprised at how badly you seem to grasp the problems that feminists have with video games. Here’s a teal dear for you, because I’m in a bad mood and my bullshit tolerance is at an all-time low.

Yeah like I really care. Get over yourself m8.

Yes, women were not welcome in gaming because it was seen as a boy thing because sexism, and now we are finally living in a world where there are just as many women who play video games as there are men.

They were (for the most part) not interested in video games which is why they were seen as a boy thing. Nothing to do with sexism. I already addressed your comment about half of gamers being women before because that doesn’t take into the account the huge number of women who play games like Candy Crush and the like.

The only reason so few women were playing video games was because video games were overtly hostile to women. Even today, video games continue to paint a world as ‘gritty’ but showcasing gratuitous examples of violence against women.

You’re delusional if you genuinely believe that. Like really delusional. There are extremely few games that even give you a choice to be violent against women much less require it. On the contrary, the majority of human characters who get killed off in video games are men, whether they be enemies or important characters to the story. Women aren’t used as cannon fodder in video games for the main character to kill in droves. Men are.

Yeah no, a self-fulfilling prophesy is hardly proof. Video games became a boys club thing for no good reason, and you can keep kicking and screaming all you want, but that’s coming to an end (and about fucking time).

They became a boy club because boys gravitated to video games in large numbers while girls did not. Kicking and screaming? You’re the one going ballistic here, not me.

For the record here I won’t be “kicking and screaming” because I don’t care if they start adding more women characters in video games. My favorite game of all time is Perfect Dark and that has a female protagonist. I don’t want more female characters but I’m not against it either. I don’t care either way. I also don’t have a problem with people who ask for better female representation in games. I have a problem with the social justice warriors who imply video game developers and fans are sexist for not complying with their demands.

First, you assume that developers appealing to women will AUTOMATICALLY drive away a male audience. And this is completely bullshit. Do tell, do you actually believe that the vast majority of male gamers are going to go: “what the hell? There’s no sexy woman who exists only to be rescued in this game! This means it sucks and I won’t play it”

Well first of all there’s more to appealing to men and women than just adding more characters of a certain gender. Giving people the choice to play as a female character probably won’t drive any dudes away but female gamers are more likely to be casuals and by appealing more to a casual audience developers could definitely drive away their hardcore gamers. To be honest it has less to do with gender and more to do with the whole hardcore vs casual war in video games. These hardcore gamers see everything casual as the enemy and have a fear that appealing more to women would mean appealing more to a casual market. I believe these fears have merit and while I have nothing against casuals or video games designed for that audience I’m definitely worried about all or most video games eventually becoming casual games. To give one example Konami just recently said they were going to put most of their focus on mobile games from here on out because it’s more profitable. I could easily see other developers following suit with that.

If my point got lost in there basically what I’m trying to say is many hardcore gamers have an intense dislike of anything casual and they see catering more to a female audience as catering more to casuals. It’s not so much about male vs female as it is about hardcore vs casual.

Wow, you just called 50% of the population a “minority group”. I can’t even. This point is already debunked because the premise that very few women play video games is very obviously false, but I bring it up because you’re making another bullshit assumption:

That women are the only ones who care about the representation of women in video games. Well fuck you. I’m a guy, and I very much care about the representation of women in video games. And I know for a fact that I’m not the only one.

You’re a guy? Wow I’m surprised. Your comment sounded like something I would read from Jezebel. You even said “I can’t even” like they do lol. That’s pretty funny. Anyway your reading comprehension is just as bad as everyone else’s here because I didn’t call women a minority group, I called women gamers a minority group which they are. Also never said very few women play games either, just that they’re a minority. Also like I said before I have nothing against developers adding more women characters to their games. Some of my favorite games have female protags like Perfect Dark, Resident Evil, Front Mission, Soul Calibur and tons more.

Um, hi there hypothetical guy. May I introduce you to the VAST COLLECTION OF GAMES IN WHICH FEATURE A MALE PROTAGONIST? Have fun, you’ve got PLENTY of options to choose from.

Ya know I knew someone would say that. Could’ve bet money on it. Congrats on missing the point entirely. The point is that it’s not always as simple as just throwing a character of another gender into a game. There’s usually a lot of work that goes into it. In a game like Call of Duty they can just throw some female skins in there but it’s not that easy for every game.

WWTH already debunked this

You mean it offended her and she disregarded it because it doesn’t go along with her worldview that women are perpetual victims? Is that what you mean by debunked?

but I want to add, the idea of ‘which gender gets more harrassment’ is not an accurate assessment of the problem.

Here’s one of MANY problems: A woman voices her opinion about sexism in video games, and she is harassed before she can even create her video series. Be honest with me, do you think that is fair? If so, why? I’d really like to know. I think it’s because there are a lot of (predominantly male) gamers who are completely incapable of handling criticism.

No it’s not fair and you know what else isn’t fair? When male developers are harassed or even get threats of violence for changing minor things in video games. Look it up, it happens and it’s not rare. This is why so many other people dislike fanboys. Anyway the reason these women are taking so much crap isn’t because they’re women with opinions, it’s because they come across as whiners, they play the victim card constantly and they brand the opposite gender as the enemy. Not really a good way to make other people like you. Granted it doesn’t give them a right to send threats of violence but I guess that’s what you get when you have a medium like the internet where people have anonymity and the freedom to do and say what they want without consequences. It sucks but it is what it is and I doubt a bunch of whining feminists are going to change it. They’re just gonna make it worse as more people rebel against them.

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

4th:

but female gamers are more likely to be casuals

Citation please?

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

4th:

it’s because they come across as whiners, they play the victim card constantly and they brand the opposite gender as the enemy.

Examples for the second and third ones, please, so we can better under how you define ‘playing the victim card’.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

I wonder if trolls will stop posting if I post fan art I find? Sonic fan art?

Sure, it’s technically against the Geneva Conventions and yes, there will be casualties on our side, but I think trolls will think twice if they don’t want to see pictures of Sonic heavily pregnant having sex with Tails who is also pregnant and both have been eaten by Dr. Robotnik.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago
weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

4th troll is just going to ignore all the problems myself and Brooked pointed out with the study and attribute it to my hurt fee fees. What a shock. A misogynist would rather call us hysterical then ever engage our points.

Since Jackie posted a Pinhead pic, I guess we could talk about the impending Hellraiser remake. I’m actually optimistic, mostly because Clive Barker is supposedly making it. Some light CGI could improve things, although I’m hoping for mostly practical effects. When it comes to horror, too much CGI takes away the scary.

The Audition remake on the other hand…

No.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

Ah, gators always have the most annoying ‘ heads I win, tails you lose’ logic.

Either “women gamers are so rare that it makes no sense to try to change the toxic culture of a huge number of games”, or, “alright, fine, women do play games but since they already buy games we clearly don’t need to change anything because they’re already fine with it! I totally know a girl gamer who is totally cool and never complains about harassment or objectification because all she wants to do is ‘ shut up and play!’ no, really! Honest to god!”

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@WWTH

I’m not that big of a Hellraiser fan and just thinking of it being remade really chaffs me. Most of the horror in the movie is about the grotesque and sex (I prefer more psychological than gross-out stuff), but the effects were amazing. Next you’re gonna be telling me they’re remaking American Werewolf in London.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

They’re remaking everything, so probably.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

@WWTH

They would probably just make it a straight up horror which makes me sad. It was a scary movie first but had lots of dark humor. I really should watch it again soon.

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

@ 4th

You mean it offended her and she disregarded it because it doesn’t go along with her worldview that women are perpetual victims? Is that what you mean by debunked?

When you see and short article reporting on study it usually nothing more than a layman journalist badly summarizing a press release. Young reported that “on the whole, 2.5 percent of the tweets sent to the men but fewer than 1 percent of those sent to women were classified as abusive”. She doesn’t examine how they classify language as abusive. I’ve already outlined that there is no violent language on their list such as the word “rape”, it’s mostly sexual language, including many benign ones such as “sex” and “lmfao”.

LINK: Demos categorized tweets as offensive if they contained one or more of the abusive words included in Google’s search language filter: https://gist.github.com/jamiew/1112488

Young also briefly mentions of an earlier Demos study, saying “in an earlier Demos analysis, women on Twitter were almost as likely as men to use “gendered” derogatory language”.

The report itself says under ‘key findings’, “women are as almost as likely as men to use the terms ‘slut’ and ‘whore’ on Twitter”. It also says under ‘key findings’, “between 26 December 2013 and 9 February 2014 there were around 100 thousand instances of the word ‘rape’ used in English from UK – based Twitter accounts. We estimate around 12 percent appeared to be threatening”.

You know what it doesn’t say under key findings? That men tweet the word “rape” more than women, even though there’s a graph showing it. They also don’t provide the gender break down of the senders of tweets considered threats or abusive containing “slut”, “whore” or “rape”.

The Daily Beast article is poor source when the studies it references are available and can be directly evaluated.

Lanariel
Lanariel
5 years ago

@4th

As you pointed out, adding either a male or female character to a game takes a lot of effort if its id going to mesh nicely with the environments and without glitches.

Interesting fact: The amount of work is the same for both. So the question isn’t why they don’t add more female characters, but why we don’t have more games that introduces them since they are making a character anyway.

Since you have a lot more control over the side characters they are a lot easier to create, so why aren’t there more competent, non sexualized female support characters, especially in those places where the gender of the character doesn’t matter?

Also, now when we have a lot of people wanting more, better, and stronger female characters in games, is that not just the market asking for change, witch the clearly non sexist games industry would be happy to give?
(Note: Remember Me, a game made to appeal to allot of people and with a female lead. The developers had to specifically request a focus group that included women, since the standard from the PR firms were to just ask boys.)

You state that the issue is more between hardcore and casual markets. Have there been a serious attempt to see if women are interested in “hardcore” games? Ten years ago, Every body new that only young people were into gaming, and the only market were the “hardcore” one. Then the Wii changed that. Could that be the case here to?

The so called “Hardcore” games not bothering with male or female
(Note: This was in a professional tournament so everybody involved were “hardcore”)

Discussion about gender and game mechanics
(Note: The episode is written by James Portnow)
(Note: At Uni, when we had professional game developers over, EVERYONE of them recommended extra credits as a good place to get ideas on how to make better games)

Finishing Thoughts:
There are more ways to be seen as a hostile environment than to be killing or doing harm to someone, as previously mentioned, where a the great female characters (, that aren’t sexualized just because, who are persons in their own right, who exists beyond just as plot device, that are in hardcore games)?

And why is it wrong to ask for more games that deliver on those points?

To help you out I will give you one character, a main even, Sheppard.
(Note: First designs noted Sheppard as female, Marketing changed it later)

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

@4th troll, if you’re still around. Have another teal dear

Yeah like I really care. Get over yourself m8.

Apparently you care enough to reply.

They were (for the most part) not interested in video games which is why they were seen as a boy thing. Nothing to do with sexism.

No, plenty of women WERE interested in video games. If you’ve got proof that somehow women were not interested in video games, be my guest and show it. But I have a feeling that this is just a bullshit assumption that exists in your mind.

I already addressed your comment about half of gamers being women before because that doesn’t take into the account the huge number of women who play games like Candy Crush and the like.

Ah yes, the classic rationalization of “well they are probably off playing Candy Crush which doesn’t count due to my arbitrary elitist definition of a real game”. Um, do you realize how many women play Pokemon? A.K.A a turn-based JRPG with a competitive scene. You’ll also notice that Pokemon actually has a half-way decent split of male/female characters as well as some very strong women who are NOT heavily sexualized (Cynthia). HUH, WHAT A COINCIDENCE.

You’re delusional if you genuinely believe that. Like really delusional. There are extremely few games that even give you a choice to be violent against women much less require it.

Correct, except I never said “lots of video games give you the choice to be violent against women”. Nice try at a straw man. What I did say was many games were (and still are) overtly hostile to women.
There are MANY ways of being “overtly hostile to women”. The example I listed is creating a sequence that depicts violence against women to paint a world as gritty and “tough”. Examples include: Saboteur, GTA V, Dragon Age, Watch Dogs, Bioshock.
Each of those games contains a scene where a female ‘character’ is killed off or harmed for NO OTHER REASON than to make the world look gritty. THIS is hostile towards women.

On the contrary, the majority of human characters who get killed off in video games are men, whether they be enemies or important characters to the story.

Um, that’s because the vast majority of human characters are male. “total number of male characters killed” vs “total number of female characters killed” is a uselss piece of data that completely missing the point. (for example, it doesn’t address HOW characters are killed off. Male characters usually don’t go down without a fight, female characters are more likely to be portrayed as “helpless” and “innocent”)

Women aren’t used as cannon fodder in video games for the main character to kill in droves. Men are.

Correct, women don’t even get to be cannon fodder. They are too often portrayed as helpless and die without even fighting. This is actually a great example of sexism in video games, thank you for pointing it out.

They became a boy club because boys gravitated to video games in large numbers while girls did not. Kicking and screaming? You’re the one going ballistic here, not me.

Um, no, girls ALSO gravitated to video games in large numbers. They then gravitated AWAY due to the vast amount of content that was very obviously aimed at boys. And you think I’m going ballistic? That’s adorable. Keep projecting, I’m having far too much fun over here .

For the record here I won’t be “kicking and screaming” because I don’t care if they start adding more women characters in video games. My favorite game of all time is Perfect Dark and that has a female protagonist. I don’t want more female characters but I’m not against it either. I don’t care either way. I also don’t have a problem with people who ask for better female representation in games. I have a problem with the social justice warriors who imply video game developers and fans are sexist for not complying with their demands.

Um, nobody is “implying developers are sex for not complying with their demands”, they are being called sexist because they created a scene in the game that is blatantly sexist. You act like being called out for sexism is the worst offence possible. Why is it such a bad thing? Plenty of people are sexist without even realizing it. Being sexist =/= being a horrible person.
Also NOBODY IS CALLING THE FANS SEXIST FOR PLAYING SEXIST GAMES. Nobody is, in fact, demanding anything from the fans. The fact that you feel targeted when video games get accused of being sexist just shows that you’re taking things way too personally.
You, by the way, ARE being sexist, because you’re making completely unfounded assumptions about women. Speaking of which….

If my point got lost in there basically what I’m trying to say is many hardcore gamers have an intense dislike of anything casual and they see catering more to a female audience as catering more to casuals. It’s not so much about male vs female as it is about hardcore vs casual..

Well those fans need to shut the fuck up about their sexist assumption that women are casual gamers and that men are automatically hardcore. There are PLENTY of women who enjoy “hardcore” games.

You’re a guy? Wow I’m surprised. Your comment sounded like something I would read from Jezebel. You even said “I can’t even” like they do lol. That’s pretty funny.

I’m a guy who recognized toxic masculinity for what it is. BTW That makes me immune to your pathetic attacks at my gender. FYI “I can’t even” is a diminutive of “what is this; I can’t even” which comes from fucking 4chan.

Also like I said before I have nothing against developers adding more women characters to their games. Some of my favorite games have female protags like Perfect Dark, Resident Evil, Front Mission, Soul Calibur and tons more.

Plenty of games are capable of having female protagonists and still be sexist. One example is the Soul Calibur series… Oh hey! You even mentioned it for me! How nice of you.

Ya know I knew someone would say that. Could’ve bet money on it. Congrats on missing the point entirely. The point is that it’s not always as simple as just throwing a character of another gender into a game. There’s usually a lot of work that goes into it.

They wouldn’t have to go through the work if they had ALREADY DESIGNED THE GAME with a female character to begin with.

In a game like Call of Duty they can just throw some female skins in there but it’s not that easy for every game.

The fact that you think this could be solved by ‘just throwing in some female skins’ shows how little you understand about the problem of sexism in video games.

You mean it offended her and she disregarded it because it doesn’t go along with her worldview that women are perpetual victims? Is that what you mean by debunked?

Um, it seems like her debunking didn’t go along with YOUR world view. Also, the fact that you’re not addressing any of her (or Brooked)’s points is quite telling…

No it’s not fair and you know what else isn’t fair? When male developers are harassed or even get threats of violence for changing minor things in video games. Look it up, it happens and it’s not rare. This is why so many other people dislike fanboys

No, it’s completely ridiculous that a game dev received death threats because he nerfed a particular overpowered gun. Glad we are in agreement.

Anyway the reason these women are taking so much crap isn’t because they’re women with opinions, it’s because they come across as whiners, they play the victim card constantly and they brand the opposite gender as the enemy.

I see, so making critical analysis of video games = whining. That’s flawed logic. Also, where did Anita say “MALES ARE THE ENEMY”? It seems more like some members of one gender FEEL targeted even though they have NO REASON to be.

Not really a good way to make other people like you. Granted it doesn’t give them a right to send threats of violence but I guess that’s what you get when you have a medium like the internet where people have anonymity and the freedom to do and say what they want without consequences.

So what if they didn’t do those things, as I mentioned? Sorry, but you can’t just rationalize away the behavior of those assholes on the internet. Again, they are reacting as if they have personally been attacked even though NOBODY HAS DONE SO.
Also I love the thinly-veiled victim blaming you’re doing. Somehow it’s the fault of critics that assholes can’t take criticizm of their precious video games without throwing a tantrum.

It sucks but it is what it is and I doubt a bunch of whining feminists are going to change it. They’re just gonna make it worse as more people rebel against them.

No, actually a bunch of feminists criticizing (or, as you call it, ‘whining’) is and always has been the only thing that’s contributed to change.

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” – Margret Mead

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

Um, do you realize how many women play Pokemon? A.K.A a turn-based JRPG with a competitive scene. You’ll also notice that Pokemon actually has a half-way decent split of male/female characters as well as some very strong women who are NOT heavily sexualized (Cynthia). HUH, WHAT A COINCIDENCE.

Shit, Pokemon is one of the most hardcore games I’ve ever played (and I’ve played a lot of games =P). From type tables, movesets and teambuilding to EVs, IVs and Hidden Powers… I recently finished a breeding project that took four months to get right.

Cutesy =/= Casual.

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
5 years ago

The metagame, THE METAGAME.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT THE METAGAME!

Moocow
Moocow
5 years ago

@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs

Isn’t it crazy? I thought I knew everything about Pokémon (I was young and had caught all 151 Pokémon) then I discovered those hidden stats like a fish discovering the ocean! what’s your project?

Cutesy =/= Casual

Yeah, Whitney and her Milktank taught me that one! XD

http://www.halolz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/halolz-dot-com-pokemon-heartgold-soulsilver-miltank-nopokemonissafe.jpg

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