Today is Equal Pay Day, a well-intentioned if imperfect faux holiday based on the notion that women have to work roughly a year and three-and-a-half months in order to make as much money as men make in a year.
The wage gap is a little — actually, a lot — more complicated than that. Only a portion of the gap is the result of straight-up discrimination; much of the rest is the result of women’s choices.
Well, their “choices.” I’ve put that word in scare quotes because many of these “choices” are the result of living in a still-sexist society in which women, among other things, are expected to do the bulk of the child-rearing, an expectation that has enormous consequences for the careers and earning power of both women and men. In the Washington Post, Catherine Rampell goes through some of these complications; I took a whack at the subject myself a few years ago on Time.com.
Among MRAs, of course, the conventional wisdom is that the wage gap is a “myth,” a conclusion that one can reach only by misinterpreting or deliberately distorting the numerous studies that have been undertaken on the subject. Or, as is probably more common, by simply regurgitating the “arguments” of other MRAs.
This brings us to today’s busted meme, courtesy of the A Voice for Men meme factory.
At first this meme seems merely baffling. Is this gal, all covered in muck, supposed to be a female coal miner, or something?
No. She’s supposed to be a zombie representing the “myth” of equal pay for equal work — “[t]he myth that just won’t die,” as whoever posted this to AVFM’s Facebook put it.
In other words, they’ve got their own propaganda backwards. The MRA line is that it’s the wage gap that’s the myth, not the idea that men and women receive equal pay. In the real world, it’s the other way around: the wage gap is real; women, on average, don’t get equal pay for equal work. By labeling their own belief — that men and women do get equal pay for equal work — a myth, they’re accidentally arguing the feminist case.
And now I’ve given myself a bit of a headache.
Oh, I thought the zombie was referencing the “men die at their jobs” thing, like “if you want equal pay, be willing to become a zombie!”
Hey, did you guys see this 1970s Batgirl equal pay PSA?
@weirwoodtreehugger Conspiracy you say.. I’ll bring it up at the next big regional male regional 🙂 It would have been the advent of the personal computer during the ’80s driving that cultural phenomenon. Granted, plenty of idiots in the tech industries that deliberately make workplaces unpleasant/unwelcoming, as if working with women somehow threatens their status.
*meeting..
@sunnysombrera – That “oh, you’ll change your mind when you have a baybeeee” thing needs to be cleansed with fire. I can’t think of any other life-changing events where people almost uniformly tell you gamble everything on the chance that you might like it. “Oh, go ahead and join the Army! You’ll never know if you like combat until you try it!” “I didn’t think I’d like being a doctor either, but I went ahead and borrowed $250,000 and did a microbiology undergrad and then med school and residency and I turned out to love it! Just sayin’.”
People need to shut up about everyone else’s personal harmless choices. Stay strong, sunnysombrera! I’m just an internet stranger, but I’ve got your back.
Oh, gross, you get that too? Superficial jerks never seem to realize for a second that looks like me =/= thinks like me. Peddle your crap elsewhere, people. Or better yet, think for a minute and don’t say it AT ALL. That goes double for you, racist cop who treated me to a monologue in front of the bakery after I said something innocuous like “hot one today, huh?” (he apologized twice for saying the word “fuck,” but dropped the n-word to his heart’s content).
I’m ashamed to say that I used to just let that stuff slide, but I’ve had to step it up since I’ve had kids and want to minimize their bullshit exposure. I think I’ve probably inspired quite a few “I never knew how deep the liberal conspiracy went!” moments. Even nice-looking housewifey ladies have been indoctrinated.
Binjabreel”
It always kills me when some dingus is like “but women chose jobs with lower pay!”
Right. And why, exactly, would the jobs that are viewed as appropriate for women pay less, hmm? Could it be… Sexism?
They never fucking put it together.”
That is what I a want to tell them whenever I see a comment on youtube or an article that discusses the wage gap from an MRA saying that the wage gap been ‘debunked’ or is entirely due to women’s choices (even when that article/video discusses the issue in great depth and demonstrates that the wage gap exists with women’s ‘choices’ taken into account). I too feel like arguing that this is a result of sexism and that ‘women’s work’ is under valued and under paid compaired to ‘mens’ work, especially caring roles like nursing .This occurs even in male dominated occupations that are not dangerous, like programing, accounting, maths and science. MRAs also like to argue that the wage gap occurs because men occupy dangers jobs, but these jobs do not compensate for dangers (there is a risk premium, but it is very small-between $300 and $500 a year) and tend not to be particularly well paid, excepting for pilot and flight engineer. For example, one of the most dangerous job in America is fisherman and this only pays about $12.50 an hour. Also, most of these dangerous jobs are only dangerous because of poor work place safety regulations. These MRAs also ignore the fact that stereotypical ‘feminine’ jobs are also very dangerous, like nursing. Not only is nursing is very important to society, it is also can be very dangerous and they suffer a huge range of hazards. To quote the article-“Nursing is a physically and psychologically demanding profession. It may not be the most dangerous profession in the world, but it might have the distinction of being associated with the broadest range of workplace hazards and threats to health and well-being. From needlestick and sharps injuries to musculoskeletal damage; assault; infectious disease transmission; and exposure to harmful chemicals, drugs, and radiation, the profession of nursing supplies no shortage of ways to get injured or sick on the job. Moreover, the list goes well beyond physical illness and injury to psychological harms associated with stress, compassion fatigue, bullying, and incivility in the workplace”. In regards to work place injury 2010, nearly 654,000 healthcare workers were injured, while 502,000 manufacturing workers were injured at work. They also, experience work-related musculoskeletal injuries at a rate that’s nearly seven times the American average. Also, nurses suffer a significant risk of assault and violence. 76% of nurses reported having experienced verbal or physical abuse.
As for the gender gap being entirely due to women’s choices, well that is bull crap as well. Women are still expected to be stereotypically feminine and fit into strict gender roles. This has a strong impact on what jobs women are considered good for and why there is ‘women’s work’ and ‘men’s work’. This is a direct result of sexism. And women working less hours thing, well that is because women are still expected to shoulder the burden of being the primary care givers of children and this causes the careers of most woman to suffer. It seems that there is a rather large stigma attached to women-employers always fear that they will one day get pregnant, this also affects a woman’s career, whether they end up having children or not. This also is a direct result of sexism. MRAs ‘forget’ that men have children too and that this does not affect their careers and are in fact are expected to be the primary provider. Yet again this is a direct result of sexism. There is no reason why men and women can not BOTH take care of children and shoulder the responsibility equally. There is also no reason why there should not be equal maternity leave and paternity leave for men and women. This would effectively remove the stigma associated with child rearing.
So, to say that the gender wage gap is myth is absolute bull shit. It may not ALL be the result of overt discrimination, but it is real and it is something that needs to be addressed.
Anyway, here are some refs.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/most-dangerous-jobs-in-america-2014-12?op=1#1-logging-workers-10
http://time.com/money/3430567/most-dangerous-jobs-what-pay/
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/most-dangerous-jobs-2011-9?op=1#no-1-fishers-and-related-fishing-workers-15
http://healthcaretraveler.modernmedicine.com/healthcare-traveler/content/tags/american-nurses-association/keeping-nurses-safe-nursing-one-most-da?page=full
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/818437
If you don’t know the story already, look up the Dagenham Equal Pay Strike of 1968. While the men in the Ford factory did the mechanical and engineering work, it was mostly women who made the car seat covers, as sewing was seen as women’s work. Ford tried to reallocate their jobs into the “unskilled labour” category, which would have meant an even bigger pay gap than before- because of course, all the work the men did was considered skilled labour. The women of the plant went on strike to argue that it WAS skilled work, thanks very much, and managed to grind car production to a halt because no car seats = no cars. Not only did they win their fight (sort of – the final deal wasn’t perfect but it was acceptable) their strike started the ball rolling towards the Equal Pay Act of 1970.
These are the kind of second gen feminists we should salute.
@misseb47: Seconding that nursing has its fair share of dangers. And the skeletomuscular injuries you mentioned are common, and frequently disables you for life once you’ve suffered it.
@Flyingmouse:
THIS.SO.MUCH:
I’m a 38-year-old happily married woman who’s childless by choice. People get it by now that I won’t ever have children (we’ve been married since I was 24 btw), but I did get a lot of questions when I was younger.
That Flyingmouse quote was so good I just quoted it on Facebook. 🙂
Aw, thanks Dvärghundspossen!
And it’s got quite a number of likes, even from friends who themselves have kids, but realize how stupid it is to tell people who don’t want kids to get one… 🙂
My younger sister knew early on that she did not want children. Apparently, seeing our two older sisters go through it made a vivid impression. Her husband (my BIL) was persuaded by her eloquence – she can be quite emphatic when she’s of a mind to. Twenty years later, she has two cats, the same husband, and no regrets.
My siblings and I demonstrate a demographic trend – we either went to college OR we had kids. Not both.
I knew as a 5 year old that I didn’t want kids or to work with children.
I vividly remember looking round my school class and thinking, “This is Hell.”
Thankfully nature obliged and I hit menopause at 30.
Think I’ll also quote Flying Mouse’s post on Facebook. It’s goooood.
There probably are people who are told to commit to a four year enlistment or a career in medicine when they’re decidedly NOT feeling it. But I bet that number is a minuscule fraction of the people (aka, pretty much everyone) who’re urged to reproduce just because.
sunnysombrera-Thanks for the info! I haven’t heard about this incident, but I will read into it further.
“Ford tried to reallocate their jobs into the “unskilled labour” category, which would have meant an even bigger pay gap than before- because of course, all the work the men did was considered skilled labour. The women of the plant went on strike to argue that it WAS skilled work, thanks very much, and managed to grind car production to a halt because no car seats = no cars.”
That showed them didn’t it? Yep, definitely salute worthy. *does the feminist Katie salute* It does piss me off at how so called ‘women’s work’ is undervalued, even when it is absolutely vital. Women aren’t just hair dresses and nail technicians. Imagine what would happen if there was a nurse’s strike? That would show these MRAs. Who does the day to day taking care of patients? Nurses. If they go on strike, who is going to take care of the sick, injured, elderly and the vulnerable? No one. It is amazing how caring professions like nursing are so undervalued, yet if they so much as go on strike there would be devastating consequences.
When I say I want a pet: “Oh? Are you sure? That’s so much responsibility and money! Are you sure you can handle it?”
When I say I don’t want kids: “Why not? Everyone wants kids! Kids are great!”
Maybe David should make a new thread for the “kids aren’t a requirement of being feeeemale” topic, because I could go on for days about it and it seems many of you could too. For now, though, Flying Mouse’s comment wins an internet, and big thumbs up to Dvärghundspossen, Gilshalos, Paradoxical Intention and others who have commented similarly! 🙂 Warms my heart.
Thanks for all the love, everybody. Here’s a happy puppy as a thank-you 🙂
http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l2ogidlVak1qav5xbo1_500.jpg
(Zie looks a little bit like my pup did when she came home from the pound eight years ago. Time flies!)
I can’t explain why this whole thing chaps me so hard (especially since I have two littles myself). I think it’s mainly A) people expecting you to conform to their idea of what an adult is and/or validate their own life choices by copying them, B) people – not only folks with vested interests, like parents hoping for grandchildren, but strangers in the grocery store – expecting you to justify your life choices to their satisfaction, and C) people feeling to free to judge and/or pity you no matter what you effing say to back up your decision. Which you shouldn’t have to back up at all. You shouldn’t have to have a reason why you don’t want kids. Just saying “no, thank you” is enough.
I have many childfree friends, including a couple I met through Mr. FM. They’re in their forties, have been married twenty years, and have no kids. I have no idea why this is, because they haven’t told me. I also have not asked because IT IS NONE OF MY DAMNED BUSINESS.
I know I’m preaching to the choir on all of this, but it’s so prevalent and annoying. World, stop policing everyone’s bodies and choices!
Ha! I had my dog housetrained in about a week (probably could have been faster, but it took both of us a while to understand what her “outside” signal was). My kids… I won’t got into detail, but potty training took A LOT longer. And I won’t even go into the differences in expense between raising a puppy and a baby. Even when you factor in expensive food and vet bills, there is really no comparison.
The stigma against women not having kids bugs me too. Maybe it’s because I’m still not sure if I want to have kids or not. I grew up expecting to have kids of my own some day and I spent a lot of time thinking that’s just what adults did. Now that I’ve started to break away from those kinds of societal expectations, I’m trying to work out for myself whether I actually want kids or if I just think I *should* want kids. Turns out it’s kind of hard to separate out your own feelings from the feelings you are “supposed” to have.
Regardless of what I decide, it is no one’s business but mine and my partner’s.
I hate how everyone assumes that if you don’t want to have kids it must mean you’re a cold hearted child hater. I don’t hate kids. I’m always happy to babysit my friend’s son on the rare occasion she needs me to. I like getting pictures of him and hearing cute stories about him. I just don’t think parenting is for me. It’s enough work taking care of my cats!
It’s also silly to think we’re miserable if we don’t have kids. My aunt is child free and she and her husband have a great life. They’re very happy. My mom’s two best friends are childless too. They both have full lives too.
Don’t forget the issues you’ll face if you try to get sterilized as a younger childfree woman.
A woman in her twenties who wants to be sterilized= “HOLY SHIT NO DON’T YOU KNOW THAT’S PERMANENT?!?!”
A woman in her twenties who wants/has kids = “Awww, you’ll be such a good mommy!”
So, tell me again, how come one lady can make a permanent, life changing decision and be lauded/encouraged for it, and then the other attempts to make a permanent, non-life changing decision (and can always adopt if she changes her mind later anyway; people who have kids don’t have the option of giving them up a few years in), gets lambasted and refused any options to do so?
Yeah, I might be a little bitter about this.
I don’t hate kids, though I am kind of awkward around them sometimes. Other times I’m fine with hanging around them.
But when someone starts spewing pronatalist rhetoric all over me (“You’ll change your mind/ Oh, you know, accidents happen /Every woman wants to be a mother / You don’t know what love is until you have kids / it’s different when it’s your own!” etc), I’ll turn up my “child-hating”-ness to caraciture levels.
People tend to stop telling me that I NEED to have kids if I start saying things like “I can’t fucking stand the wailing of other people’s snot-nosed little brats, and the only difference between theirs and any hypothetical ones of mine is that I’d have CPS come down on me for getting myself as far away as possible and not coming back.” (Disclaimer: Child neglect and abuse is 100% wrong. I know I would be a terrible caregiver and will never subject a child to dependency on me.)
Maybe that just cements the stereotype in their heads, but I am sick and tired of my life choices being sniped at by rude arseholes.
A woman in her twenties who has kids and doesn’t have tons of money and needs government assistance from time to time?
NO, YOU IRRESPONSIBLE IDIOT! YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE HAD KIDS IF YOU COULDN’T AFFORD THEM!!!
A woman in her twenties who wants an abortion so she doesn’t have to raise kids she wasn’t ready for?
YOU WHORE! YOU SHOULD HAVE KEPT YOUR LEGS CLOSED! ABORTION SHOULDN’T BE USED AS BIRTH CONTROL! OH, YOU WANT AFFORDABLE BIRTH CONTROL? NO, YOU SLUT!
To sum up. Not getting pregnant is bad. Getting pregnant and having an abortion is bad. Getting pregnant and keeping it if you aren’t wealthy is bad. There’s literally no way to woman right.
^ True, true. If you’re not the ‘right’ kind of woman (see: white, married, well-off, stay at home, imported directly from the mythical 1950s), then getting pregnant is also something that is looked upon with scorn and derision.
Women can’t really win.
@Catalpa
I feel your frustration and bitterness with the whole sterilization thing! I knew I didn’t want kids since I was young. Forgot who else mentioned it (maybe Gilshalos?) but I had a rough childhood and most kids were mean to me, so I always related better to adults. Not to mention seeing (in some of my own family) how parenting can go very wrong. Sure, I had my moments of “I wonder what pregnancy would be like” or “Maybe I DO want kids” and definitely the “When I die, there won’t be anyone left who cares about me” thing. But I knew when it came down to the cold-hard reality of RAISING a child I could not and had no desire to. I’ve also never had the finances to do so. tl;dr I have LOTS of reasons lol.
Well, when I decided that I was sick of hormonal birth control I started asking to be sterilized. Other options weren’t good enough for me and I just wanted it to be over with. I probably started asking my doc around 25. I basically got a chuckle and a “Oh, no, you’re WAY too young to decide that. You might get married and then you’ll be sorry. You’ll change your mind, you’ll see. We don’t do that until after you’ve had kids or at least after 30.” It always left me very angry that I was being told I was too immature to make my own decisions about my own damn body and that my choice wasn’t a valid one, because I am a woman. I also hated the implication that no man would want me if I couldn’t make his baaaabiez. FFS!
After years of wearing her down and making it damn clear I wouldn’t change my mind, I finally got my GYN to agree to the surgery (around 28/29). She wasn’t happy about it. I was elated. Every doctor or nurse I ran across shook their heads and told me that basically, I’d regret it. That’s such bullshit. But I’ve been happy I made the choice ever since and it’s so awesome to never have to take a pill or shot again for birth control and not have to worry about an “oops” and make a gut-wrenching decision about whether or not to keep a baby I didn’t want!!
Side note, I don’t hate kids, but beyond the newborn stage I don’t like them much, either. And most of the people I talk to with kids are very upfront about what annoying, destructive, maddening messes their kids are. They usually congratulate me on not having them! Which I just take as further confirmation of my decision lol.