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The Las Vegas “Free Buffet” suicide and the cost of aggrieved entitlement

John Noble posing with one of the women he was most obsessed with
John Noble with one of the women he was most obsessed with

You may have already seen the headlines, most of which were a variant on the following: MAN KILLS HIMSELF INSIDE VEGAS CASINO AFTER LIFETIME BUFFET PASS WAS REVOKED. 

On Reddit’s charming FatPeopleHate subreddit, where a link to a story on the suicide garnered more than 450 upvotes, this became Fat fuck kills himself, blames it on the loss of free buffet for life.

“And nothing of value was lost,” quipped one Redditor. “Another proof that they live only for food,” added another. “Do these sound like the actions of a man who had ALL he could eat?” joked a third.  You can find similarly sensitive remarks in the comments of sites ranging from Breitbart (” Please tell me this was Michael Moore!”) to the Las Vegas Sun (“Man that buffet must be to die for”).

But John Noble, who shot himself in the head at the M Resort buffet on Easter Sunday in front of a roomful of witnesses, wasn’t upset that the M Resort had taken away the free food he’d won in a raffle in 2010. He was upset that the casino, two years ago, had taken away his access to the female staffers he had been stalking.

We know this because, before he took his own life, Noble sent a box full of documents to the Las Vegas Review-Journal detailing his case against “the M Resort Spa Casino and [the] employees” he said had wronged him. As the newspaper reported:

Noble’s hand-bound stack of notes and documents stretches on for more than 270 pages and includes a table of contents, photographs and a two-hour DVD of him talking about his troubles.

The second-to-last page, titled “The Curse,” spells out all the harm he wishes on those he believed wronged him.

Included on the list are several women who worked at the buffet and who were showered with gifts and unwanted attention by Noble after he won meals for life there in September 2010.

Noble, who described himself in one Facebook posting as “just a lonely nice guy,” was a deeply troubled man reportedly suffering from depression; in 2013, when he lost his buffet privileges, he spent several days in the state psychiatric hospital after attempting suicide.

But it’s clear he was driven not only by despair but by anger — an anger obvious to everyone, it seems, but him. This anger seems to have played a large part in his choice of where and when to end his life: in front of hundreds of diners and staff on Easter Sunday. His actions, as he no doubt intended, horrified and terrified not only those who witnessed it directly — including a number of children — but those elsewhere in the casino who heard the gunshot.

Adding to the confusion and chaos: before shooting himself, Noble set his car on fire, closing down the parking garage for several hours and forcing many casino patrons to remain at the scene of his crime for hours.

I suppose we should be thankful that he didn’t decide to take anyone else with him.

Noble’s very public suicide shows once again the destructive power of aggrieved male entitlement.

Some people are puzzled, or profess to be puzzled, when someone like Noble — a sad and lonely man who saw himself as a victim — is described as “entitled.” But a deep sense of entitlement seems to have been at the heart of his anger and despair. It wasn’t just that he felt entitled to free food; he felt entitled to the attention of the women working at the buffet that he had become obsessed with.

It’s easy enough to see what worried the Casino staffers about him. In the alternately angry and self-pitying note he posted on Facebook after his 2013 suicide attempt, he recounted the numerous notes and gifts he’d given to various female staffers, and blamed them for “encouraging” him with hugs and smiles. Never mind that these were women whose jobs more or less required them to act friendly to customers, and that his acts of “generosity” towards them were impositions rather than gifts.

He claims to have been blindsided when security finally showed him the door, though it’s clear even from his self-serving account that he was given plenty of warnings first; if he was blindsided it was because he was willfully blind.

Another self-described “nice guy” who literally could not take no as an answer. Another “nice guy” who was anything but nice. In that 2013 rant, a lengthy list of grievances, he lashed out at everyone he feels has wronged him, posting an assortment of accusations, some petty, some serious, against an assortment of casino staff by name, raging from the hostess he was most obsessed with to the company CEO. His sense of victimhood was such that he turned his favorite hostess’ butterfly tattoo into yet another Exhibit in his case against her.

So she has a small Butterfly Tattoo on her leg in honor of her Mother, Which now everytime I see something with a Butterfly on it I think of [name redacted]. And if you ever been to Vegas there’s a lot of stuff with Butterfly’s the décor at Encore Casino, the Butterfly exhibit they had in the conservatory at Belagio, The Butterfly bench at Nathan Adelson Hospice (Which I think she would like) among plenty of others scattered thru the city.

Aggrieved entitlement doesn’t feel like entitlement; it feels like rejection, failure, emptiness, and even, as in Noble’s case, like betrayal. That’s what makes it so insidious — and so dangerous.

H/T — r/againstmensrights

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Falconer
5 years ago

Oh, how horrible.

I hope everyone who had to witness that, and get their faces rubbed in it because they couldn’t leave, heals as quickly as possible.

jbgarner58
5 years ago

Excellent insights on the dangers of aggrieved entitlement. I have great sympathy for all the innocents forced to see such a violent lashing-out.

Magic
Magic
5 years ago

Oh, fatpeoplehate. That subreddit’s been growing at an exponential rate this year. Which is unsurprising, because Reddit.

They even have a spin-off sub called HAESSuccessStories, where they literally rejoice whenever fat people die. Of course, the admins won’t do anything about it until it lands on CNN or something.

Tod Kelly
5 years ago

“Noble’s very public suicide shows once again the destructive power of aggrieved male entitlement.”

Or, alternatively, it might have been driven entirely by mental illness and had nothing to do with politics — in the same way the Columbine shootings weren’t really about the kinds of music people listen to.

ikanreed
ikanreed
5 years ago

Oh thanks Tod Kelly, I’m glad you’re here to remind us to ignore the expressly written motivations.

Mental illness contributes to a lot of suicides, and should not be ignored, but please don’t take the victim’s own words and just throw them away on a whim.

Ellesar
5 years ago

As you say, the only thing to be thankful for is that he did not turn that into a murder spree before his suicide.

I think that he assumed entitlement, but also was one of the least self aware people around, not seeing at all how his behaviour impacted on other people.

I think the public nature of his suicide shows that he wanted to punish the casino staff for ‘rejecting’ him, and absolutely could not see how he had acted inappropriately.

I really wish that men like this could see that a woman being friendly and polite because it is a requirement of her job is not at all the same as encouragement.

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

@David Futurelle “ In the alternately angry and self-pitying note he posted on Facebook after his 2013 suicide attempt, he recounted the numerous notes and gifts he’d given to various female staffers, and blamed them for “encouraging” him with hugs and smiles. Never mind that these were women whose jobs more or less required them to act friendly to customers, and that his acts of “generosity” towards them were impositions rather than gifts.

And this is why the dreck of an idea that it’s “rude” to refuse gifts needs to go die in a fire. Ladies, raise your hand if you’ve ever had “a friendly, non-platonic gift” suddenly sprout strings as soon as you accepted, smiled, and thanked the guy as dictated by social norms.

*raises hand*

@Tom Kelly, “aggrieved male entitlement” refers to a social/psychological phenomenon, not a person’s politics. Play again?

Annie Squidface
5 years ago

Man. This is obviously a guy who just didn’t have anything else, who was isolated to the umpteenth degree. I wonder if he had a job or if this was what he did all day?

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

Also, as someone who’s been through CBT to treat depression, not only does having a mental illness NOT excuse faulty beliefs, but faulty beliefs can play a role in causing mental illnesses like depression. I have sympathy for Mr. Noble because he was clearly depressed/mentally ill.

However, just maybe he wouldn’t have been so miserable if he didn’t have such a false sense of entitlement over being allowed to continue behavior that others felt uncomfortable with.

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

“Aggrieved entitlement doesn’t feel like entitlement; it feels like rejection, failure, emptiness, and even, as in Noble’s case, like betrayal. That’s what makes it so insidious — and so dangerous.-David Futrelle”

Quoted For Truth!

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

I really wish that men like this could see that a woman being friendly and polite because it is a requirement of her job is not at all the same as encouragement.

Ugh. Tell me about it. Fortunately I’ve never had trouble with types as extreme as Noble but there have been a handful of male customers over the past 3 years who think my friendliness (I work in door to door sales, but yes it is genuine friendliness because I like people) means I’m open to romantic invitations. Sir, I can not give you my number as per code of conduct. Your number is for the client to call you and check that you are happy to proceed with the sale, not for me to go out to dinner with you, and I have NO access to the number once the form has been electronically submitted.

I’m going to be honest here. I don’t outwardly reject them because they’re often subtle in their approach anyway and I work on commission. I need to be paid to put food on the table and if they cancel on the phone I get zilch. Also, I’m afraid of calmly rejecting a guy who turns out to have serious entitlement issues and tells a terrible lie about me to the client in order to get me fired.

The worst I’ve had so far has been a dude who blocked me from leaving his kitchen and tried to make me promise to go on a date with him (behind me was his back door which I knew was unlocked, so if shit went down I did have an escape route. Shit didn’t go down though, phew). I blathered that I knew his name and would look him up on Facebook and then got the hell out of there. He didn’t cancel the sale, surprisingly.

maistrechat
5 years ago

driven entirely by mental illness

Except Columbine didn’t have anything to do with mental illness.

freemage
5 years ago

Sad, just utterly sad. The notion that you are somehow ‘owed’ sex/companionship simply for being ‘nice’ is another concept for the firepit, ASAP.

Falconer
5 years ago

Standing by to email the big red head if Tod Kelly doubles down. We don’t need that anywhere, but especially not on this thread.

idledillettante
5 years ago

And it only took four comments before some dude dropped by to say “nuh-uh!”

Aggrieved entitlement is a very real, very misguided way people (usually dudes) deal with life not matching up with their expectations of how things were “supposed to” turn out for them.

It’s evident in Andreas Lubitz’s probable murder-suicide — that guy crashed a plane because he couldn’t have the highest-profile kinds of pilot jobs. It wasn’t that he couldn’t be a pilot, he was, he just wasn’t Top Pilot.

It’s evident in Elliot Rodger’s rampage, seeking to hurt other college students who he felt deprived him of sex, friendship, and popularity. Rodger felt entitled to be the most popular guy at school, and when fancy clothes and a fancy car didn’t get him that he seethed inwardly the perceived injustice. I read his whole freaking manifesto– there’s a scene in it where he went to the premiere of The Hunger Games and even to the after party with the cast. Rather than enjoy himself Rodger spent the whole night binge drinking and seething at the guy who played Peeta.

It’s evident in George Sodini and his coffee table books about pick up artistry. When the cheat codes didn’t get him women, Sodini felt so wronged he shot up an aerobics class.

It’s evident in manosphere writers like Roosh V. Roosh seems to want to have a relationship for the long term, but because nobody he meets can meet his antiquated, unfair standards he remains alone.

It’s evident in Paul Elam’s ridiculous conference ticket prices — he really believes his presence is worth $650 a head.

It’s evident in the countless YouTube vlogs which spring up every time Anita Sarkeesian posts a video. These guys honestly feel entitled to yell at Anita as if she were there; but their videos aren’t criticism, they’re tantrums. (Anita does make critical videos; notice how she never ends them screaming at her viewers or calling her opponents “bitch.”)

It’s evident in the way 8ch.net admin Fredrick Brennan responded when his shitty 4chan knockoff site was taken down by the domain registrar. Hotwheels honestly felt entitled to host child porn on his site and sent his flying monkeys to DDos the host until they released his domain.

And these are just examples off the top of my head.

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

I can’t imagine being so embroiled in hatred that you would a) join a forum declaring how you literally hate people, and b) consequently find it funny that they committed suicide, and c) find it so funny that you don’t care about all the people traumatized by the event, because it’s an excuse to laugh at said person you hate.

I love the internet, but egads it scares me sometimes.

mrex
mrex
5 years ago

@freemage “Sad, just utterly sad. The notion that you are somehow ‘owed’ sex/companionship simply for being ‘nice’ is another concept for the firepit, ASAP.”

Agreed, but with a note of caution. I think some guys are legitimately confused when a girl rejects them after accepting gifts and smiling, because smiling and gift giving are part of genuine flirting, as well as being general social niceties. So in addition to our problems with guys feeling entitled to sex after being nice, and guys using gifts to manipulate women, we have an entire social structure that’s set up to assume that feelings will always be returned.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I didn’t read past the headlines on this story so I only knew about the taking away free food angle. I’m not surprised there was more to the story. It’s scary that either male entitlement is so normalized that it isn’t news and doesn’t warrant a headline, or people will just bend over backwards to make destructive male behavior about anything other than male entitlement.

Yes Tod Kelly, his depression played a big role in this. But you don’t hear about women committing suicide in a dramatic fashion that traumatizes others intentionally anywhere near as often. You don’t see women expressing this kind of rage and entitlement when someone they’re interested in doesn’t return the feelings anywhere near as often. Male entitlement is a thing. If you deny it, it’s because you aren’t paying attention. Presumably, based on your name because you’re a man and haven’t experienced first hand how scary men can be if you don’t behave the way you want them to.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Idledillettante,
I’d throw revenge porn sites in there too. Not just the men who run them. The men who submit the photos of their exes. Even the men who just go and look and deny that they are sexually violating a woman by looking at and fapping to a picture she didn’t consent for him to see.

naira8
5 years ago

Funny how these guys can distinguish “customer service friendly” from “flirting” when it comes to male wait-staff and customer service reps. But when the women do it? Well, they MUST be interested in me!

Most of my jobs have been customer service (movie theater ticket sales, store clerk/cashier, etc.) and I’ve dealt with a reasonable amount of flirting. Happily, none of it ever extended to customers giving gifts or asking for my number. But from age 17 onward, it is amazing how the tone some men used with me was flirty and how that just dropped the second they turned to a male co-worker or manager.

Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

we have an entire social structure that’s set up to assume that feelings will always be returned.

We have an entire social structure that’s set to assume that women OWE men affection if the men pursue them properly. That if a man is “nice,” she is obligated to like him. That if you want to end a relationship, you have to prove to your partner’s satisfaction that they deserve to get dumped — and if you can’t prove it, you have to stay. “I don’t feel that way about you” is not good enough.

Zolnier
5 years ago

This sort of story pops up fairly often on the Internet, the “person commits suicide because of silly inconvenience, oh wait, actually no” dance. Like that boy whose last Facebook post was griping about his iPhone , after he killed himself in response to long standing depression, channels fucking swarmed it. Up to and including leaving phones on his grave.

idledillettante
5 years ago

@WWTH: damn right they are. Those revenge porn guys are all about aggrieved entitlement. And also the dudes who got so *thrilled* when that celebrity nude leak came out they gave it a special name.

Also add to that aggrieved entitled butthole list Eron Gjoni and anyone else who posts “cringe-worthy breakup stories”. That dude basically felt so entitled to control his ex’s life that he tried to throw her to the trolls in front of a huge audience to comfort him and his hurt feelz.

I think we could probably trace most of the behavior of people featured on WHTM as exercises in aggrieved entitlement TBH

anemonerosie
5 years ago

You know, I really think that you’re on to something when you point out that the women were required by their jobs to be nice to him. I work in a lot of hotels. ALL the staff are required to be pleasant and accommodating regardless of their position and gender. However, the way that that looks, practically, is different for men than women. I can absolutely see how to the confused male mind it looks like the women are being flirtatious. They’re not. If they don’t act like that they will lose their jobs.
What a double-bind. And One that perpetuates this cycle of violence, I wonder?

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
5 years ago

Aggrieved entitlement doesn’t feel like entitlement; it feels like rejection, failure, emptiness, and even, as in Noble’s case, like betrayal. That’s what makes it so insidious — and so dangerous.

Nailed it. Feelings are important, but they don’t justify harmful actions.

If there is one extremely widespread, insidiously harmful and outright dangerous belief that applies to pretty much all of society that I wish we could be rid of, it’s the idea that evil things are only done by “evil” people. That is, stereotypical cackling comic book villains driven either by a generic “mental illness” (thanks for being another ableist ass, Tod) or the simple, pure will to hurt others. It’s othering people who do evil things, making them into non-people who don’t share the same prejudices and beliefs as myself. That’s how the internal justification narrative goes:

Those people, they are not “normals”, like me. They hurt others because they enjoy it. They are evil. I am not evil. When I get angry and hurt someone, it’s for a good reason. I was rejected. I was hurt. I am the victim, and the people I’m angry with are the aggressors. They are evil. They hurt me deliberately. I am a good and honest person whose anger and hatred towards those evil people are completely justified.

In other words:

“By smiting those evil individuals, I am doing the work of God.”*

It’s very easy to fall into this mindset if you’ve absorbed toxic social values. It’s about taking one’s very one-sided, misinformed and ignorant worldview and turning it into a self-justifying system of ethics that pretends to see the world in an objective, non-biased manner while actually being driven entirely by one’s personal whims. Kinda like Objectivism.

Actually, scratch that, it’s exactly like Objectivism.

*Aaand that’s why some people should never be allowed to play paladins in D&D. Because that’s exactly the kind of internal narrative that gives birth to knight templars, not paladins.

/ pointless philosophical monologue

Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

There are so many businesses that offer “attractive women will be nice and act receptive to you” as one of their customer amenities. It’s really icky, frankly. And to keep their jobs or earn their tips, the women are basically treated as bargain-basement Playboy bunnies. Then a certain segment of guys will be furious because the women implicitly lied to them by acting friendly and not overtly rejecting them. Because they wanted his money! Like whores! But cheaty whores who won’t put out!

They’re never mad at the (generally) man who hired the cocktail waitresses or croupiers or receptionists and told them it was their job to keep the customers happy. They’re mad at the women who were doing the jobs they were hired to do while trying not to get fired for being rude to creepy customers.

guest
guest
5 years ago

Some of these comments are reminding me of this story:

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/sep/03/business/fi-19051

blanktie
blanktie
5 years ago

I was about to say, it shouldn’t be too long before a troll comes in claiming that we’re picking on a poor depressed man when we say his actions were in-part motivated by entitlement to these womens’ attention. That was fast. How does it feel to miss the point so hard, Tod Kelly? Today I learned that you can’t be both mentally ill and also an asshole (and still be held accountable for your actions).

But it’s just another way to shift focus. Mental illness has always been convenient for that in every tragedy. I used to be skeptical of the idea of being ableist (but respected it here nonetheless by not using certain words) but now things are starting to make some sense.

It’s ridiculous how so many terrible things are just dismissed as “whelp! They were crazy. Let’s oogle at all the gory details, shake or heads, and then move on to the next piece of exciting news.” It’s used so much because it’s easier to dismiss it as something out of your control so you don’t have to get at the root of a persistent problem. A persistent problem which, if addressed, would help to save so many of these men’s lives (and the people they often take with them).

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Sudden thought. If Nice Guys think that their niceness earns and entitles them to women’s affections, do they project that to mean that when a woman is generally nice or pleasant that means she likes him the same way he likes her? Seeing as they use their “niceness” to try and score points with their crush, they think women do the same and get upset when they find that’s not the case?

Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

@sunnysombrera — Yeah, I think you’re on to something. Because why would I be pleasant when I interact with someone, if I don’t want something from them? That is really super-depressing, that treating people reasonably well BECAUSE THEY ARE PEOPLE and we’re all in this together, isn’t the default for some — for them, all human interactions are grand carousel of self-absorbtion and self-interest.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
5 years ago

The worst I’ve had so far has been a dude who blocked me from leaving his kitchen and tried to make me promise to go on a date with him (behind me was his back door which I knew was unlocked, so if shit went down I did have an escape route. Shit didn’t go down though, phew).

That’s scary as hell, sunnysombrera. My palms were sweating as I read it. I’m glad that things turned out okay in the end.

I think some guys are legitimately confused when a girl rejects them after accepting gifts and smiling, because smiling and gift giving are part of genuine flirting, as well as being general social niceties. So in addition to our problems with guys feeling entitled to sex after being nice, and guys using gifts to manipulate women, we have an entire social structure that’s set up to assume that feelings will always be returned.

QFT.

I think I was nineteen when I stopped letting dates/acquaintances/anybody who wasn’t a long-time friend or SO buy me anything . I’d had presents and supposedly generous gestures used against me too often (did you know that giving a classmate Easter candy they neither wanted nor needed – and refusing to take back said candy when they decline – gives you the right to know their whereabouts at all times? *insert “The More You Know” logo here*). I know that I probably hurt a few well-meaning people’s feelings with this policy, but it was worth it to opt out of the obligation game. It was easier to be called a cold bitch up front than to have to run the gauntlet of hurt feelings or righteous wrath later.

markb
markb
5 years ago

When I was younger, I used to read all kinds of intentions into the behavior of women / girls that I liked. Any kind of friendly behavior I interpreted as possible romantic interest and anything that was not openly friendly I interpreted as giving the cold shoulder. Of course, I grew out of that. It kind of creeps into your subcoscious, thought, so you may not even realize you’re making those assumptions until you start to question them.

markb
markb
5 years ago

Also, I was just watching an episode of “Fringe” before I logged onto this site and reading that John Noble shot himself gave me a bit of a shock.

Policy of Madness
Policy of Madness
5 years ago

It kind of creeps into your subcoscious, thought, so you may not even realize you’re making those assumptions until you start to question them.

Yeah, that’s because society is steeped in this stuff and both boys and girls absorb it as tiny children and have it firmly lodged in their minds by the time they are of dating age. You see it in movies, on TV, in the interactions of other people around you, and you read about it in books. You’re taught, by everything and everyone, that this is how it is, and how it ought to be, and are given no reason to question it.

But when we talk about rape culture, of which this is a part, and to which this absolutely contributes, people (especially men) flip the hell out and claim there is no such thing.

Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

Giving someone a “gift” or “help” that they haven’t asked for, and don’t necessarily want, is one of Gavin DeBecker’s markers of predatory behavior. He calls it “loansharking,” because it creates an unfounded sense of intimacy and obligation. And it’s really hard for people, especially women, to refuse what is presented as kindness; it makes them look “not nice” and women are socialized to be nice.

Gift of Fear is a really fascinating read because it calls out these abuses of our basic social behavior so clearly, and once you’re aware of it you really notice it when someone does it out in the real world.

Tina S
Tina S
5 years ago

I can’t get my mind off the idea that he shot himself around food. What a waste.

No, depression doesn’t excuse this. The man wasn’t crazy. He decided to make a disgusting, damaging public display.

yutolia
yutolia
5 years ago

@guest: OMG, the smiling stuff…

When I worked at a gas station (and bakery combination! Yes it was absolutely every bit as awful as it sounds), we were required to be extremely friendly and helpful to anyone who came in. That included creeps that were trying to get into the bakery to get at the female employees, and ones who camped out in the parking lot so they could periodically harass female employees that worked night. Anything that was said was supposed to be met with a smile, including stuff like, “I’d sure like to have you come to my house and bake for me tonight.”

Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

It wasn’t about food. It was about feeling rejected because the employees he was stalking didn’t love him.

Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

@yutolia — Jeez, that sounds like a nightmare.

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

Sudden thought. If Nice Guys think that their niceness earns and entitles them to women’s affections, do they project that to mean that when a woman is generally nice or pleasant that means she likes him the same way he likes her? Seeing as they use their “niceness” to try and score points with their crush, they think women do the same and get upset when they find that’s not the case?

I think some of them do. But thanks again to Hollywood-ized everything, guys may also trained to see aloofness as merely playing hard to get. Even hostile reactions can be interpreted as jealousy or passion, depending on what kind of dreck has been internalized (although that’s more PUA territory, I suppose).

Plus, there’s that whole, “Well women only exist to have sex with” thing. Men who buy into that think that any positive interaction MUST be either flirtation or falsehood, because to them, sex is the whole unspoken point of men and women socializing at all. If it’s not leading to sex, then they feel like it was all a nasty lie, because it’s not leading to its supposed natural end.

So while I think there is definite truth to the idea that someone who uses niceness as a ploy for sex will probably perceive niceness in the same way, I think the bigger overarching problem is a culture that tells men they will get the hand of their designated fair maiden if they just work at it hard enough (or use the right cheat code, depending on the NiceGuy in question).

theomegaconstant
5 years ago

Entitlement is at the root of most of the Manosphere; quite ironic, given that one of their rallying cries is that WOMEN are the entitled ones because, I dunno, some of them ask for alimony or something. The Red Pill and its ilk can easily be summarized with “women don’t behave exactly how we want them to; how can we fix that?” A mission to turn an entire gender into infantalized blowjob dispensers.

On a smaller point, we should really consider getting rid of this Hooters waitress bullshit that permeates way too many businesses. Having scantily clad servers at a strip club is one thing – fair enough – but at family restaurants? Casinos? The ‘booth babes’ at gaming conventions? There are way too many clueless, horny idiots out there who misinterpret this sort of pandering, and then get pumped up on entitled man-rage because the women are hot and flirty, but don’t put out.

mayimoktoo
mayimoktoo
5 years ago

http://www.reviewjournal.com/media/3244361/embed

Part of the two hour video sent to the paper. It is chilling. After recounting childhood bullying, he draws a parallel to his treatment by the M hotel and claims that the employees didn’t protect him from this treatment for fear of losing their jobs.

And then he says “What’s more important, a human life or your job?”

Of course his life is more important than their job. It’s not like they’re actual people with real bills or anything.

maleredfem
5 years ago

Thalia

There are so many businesses that offer “attractive women will be nice and act receptive to you” as one of their customer amenities. It’s really icky, frankly. And to keep their jobs or earn their tips, the women are basically treated as bargain-basement Playboy bunnies.

Nail. Head. Hit squarely on.

I actually think it’s something of an understatement to describe it as ‘really icky’. It disgusts me how capitalism seeks to control every aspect of people’s working lives, right down to their expression of feelings, forcing them to undergo emotional labour. I mean, who, as a customer, really wants to be faced with staff who are obviously maintaining a charade of appearing happy to please their boss? I don’t. I’d far rather have an economy and a society where staff felt free to express their real emotions at all times

Hambeast, Social Justice Hoo-Ha Glitterer
Hambeast, Social Justice Hoo-Ha Glitterer
5 years ago

HAESSuccessStories is not just morally wrong, it’s most likely factually wrong.

The Junk Food Science blog has been inactive for a fair few years, but the archives are still up. The writer is a nurse with a degree in statistics and does a fantastic job of explaining what all the studies reported in the news *actually* mean (hint: It’s not what the articles usually tell you.) I used to read it religiously and came to the conclusion that fat people die at the same rate as everyone else.

From Guest’s link:

Safeway spokeswoman Debra Lambert acknowledged that “sometimes customers get out of line,” but added, “We don’t see it as a direct result of our initiative.”

As a retail wage slave of over ten years, this is both infuriating and typical. Of course the corporate folk don’t see it as a problem, they aren’t living with the consequences day-to-day!

I cringed at the Starbuck’s “Talking Race” campaign for the same reason. It’s completely unfair to the baristas to make them discuss race relations while they serve lattes and crumpets to the general public! Not to mention that it was likely annoying to the customer who *just* wanted a frappuchino and to be on their way.

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
5 years ago

The association between female approval and male worth is relevant to entitlement. Getting The Girl is how the male protagonist knows he’s won. “Notch count” is one of the most important status markers for men. Not having a current S/O is a major source of shame for a lot of men. “Virgin” is a serious insult.

Of course, everyone likes attention from the people they’re attracted to. But, I think there’s a lot more to this than just loneliness. You can’t be successfully masculine without approval from women. This is a feature of how we construct masculinity. There are similar pressures on women, but they take different forms.

Part of the reason men like Mr. Noble interpret niceness as interest, become obsessed, and feel angry when they don’t get the affection they’re “owed” is that they need that affection to feel like they’re not failures as men.

We ought to change this assumption. It would reduce some of men’s problematic behavior towards women, and it would improve the lives of men.

It’s interesting to note that the manosphere generally endorses the idea that the worth of men depends on how much women like them. It’s one of PUAs’ foundational beliefs. MRAs vacillate and contradict themselves (contradiction is the soul of the MRM), but they generally are mad at women for not giving them the sex and attention that they need to be successful men. You’d think MGTOWs would be all about getting rid of this idea, but they just seem angry, obsessed, and spiteful–if they really didn’t think they needed women to be complete, they’d, you know, actually go their own way.

Ken L.
5 years ago

It’s a tough call to make as to what effected this guy more entitlement or Mental health issues? On the one hand it easy to see that his entitlement caused these events. However would someone with real self worth based on actual love for oneself , without depression or whatever other issues he may have had gone down this path? Maybe not, this case is a bit harder to get a hold of. In the end it’s another set of lives destroyed by this culture. What a waste.

Tanya Nguyen
5 years ago

Casinos hire beautiful women with the intent of them being stared at, joshed with, even touched. So you have to know that if the Casino thought he was harassing female employees, it must have been really f’ing over the top – cause their idea of “harassment” is not generally the same as ours..

yutolia
yutolia
5 years ago

@Tanya Nguyen:

Totally agree!

It looks like he had another incident in 2010 (right after he got the card, maybe, not sure) where he was stalking a female employee that resulted in him being institutionalized for 3 days. And they still let him keep that meal pass for two years!!! What he did in those two years must have been beyond deplorable because, like you said, they treat it like it’s part of the job to be harassed constantly.

Nequam
Nequam
5 years ago

It wasn’t about food. It was about feeling rejected because the employees he was stalking didn’t love him.

Yes, though it would have been just as hideous if it was aggrieved entitlement over food (and God knows there’s plenty of that too– just read the Kitchenette column over at Jezebel. It’s jaw-dropping).

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

weirwoodtreehugger | April 9, 2015 at 10:56 am
Idledillettante,
I’d throw revenge porn sites in there too. Not just the men who run them. The men who submit the photos of their exes. Even the men who just go and look and deny that they are sexually violating a woman by looking at and fapping to a picture she didn’t consent for him to see.

Speaking of revenge porn, one guy just got eighteen years in prison for running one.

Anarchonist | April 9, 2015 at 11:48 am
*Aaand that’s why some people should never be allowed to play paladins in D&D. Because that’s exactly the kind of internal narrative that gives birth to knight templars, not paladins.

My last D&D (Okay, it was Pathfinder) was like that for a while, but thanks to her complicated back story* she eventually went from paladin to Lawful Evil monarch of the country.

*Avaline Renuet’s (She prefers Renuet because her father gave her her first name) back-story: She was a half-elf born into the ex-royal family (who were all elves). She was the daughter of the next in line for head-of-family position (a beautiful eleven woman), and a human adventurer (who Renuet never met). Because of her bastard half-elf status, the rest of the family treats her like garbage and can barely stand her. She works twice as hard as a paladin to gain their approval, especially the approval of her grandfather, the head of the Renuet family. Rather than blame her mother for her status as whipping girl of the family, she blames her father for running off and not sticking around (as that would have garnered her a little bit better treatment from the family. Elf/human relationships aren’t that frowned upon, just a little unconventional. Single elf mothers raising half-elf babies is totally taboo).

While Renuet was off adventuring with her party, her grandfather dies, and shortly after, her mother was assassinated by one of her aunts (one aunt was throwing money away on lavish orgies and parties, and the other was a warmonger), so Renuet races home, murders both of her aunts, places their heads on pikes outside of the palace, and declares that she is now the queen of Navarine (the country where this takes place), re-asserting the monarchy and ruling the country with an iron fist, ditching her paladin ways to become lawful evil because that was the only way she could keep her family’s court in line. They needed to fear her, not adore her. Because in her mind, fear breeds respect. [/back-story]

(Sorry for the ranting, I very much love Avaline. She was one of my best characters. : P I eventually had to quit the session I was playing with her on because it was via Skype, and it was too hard for me to keep my head in the game. We had too many rowdy players and the party was getting big, and I lost interest, unfortunately.)