One of the incredibly important Men’s Rights issues being discussed on the A Voice for Men’s forums at the moment: Is Ronan Farrow really the biological son of Woody Allen and Mia Farrow, or is his father actually Frank Sinatra? I mean, sure, he doesn’t look much like Woody, and Mia Farrow herself has acknowledged that Frankie may “possibly” have been the daddy.
But somehow this doesn’t seem to me to be, er, the most important issue in ongoing story of Woody Allen’s awfulness as a human being.
To a regular contributor to the AVFM forums who calls himself Maxx, though, Frankie is key to the whole story.
Woody Allen’s entire life has played out like a liberal dream turned abject nightmare…
He smugly hooks up with a progressive feminist chick who’s supposed to be outta his league, but of course that sort of stuff isn’t supposed to apply in wonderful progressive unions that have evolved past their basic human nature…right?
But wait…
She cheats on him with the biggest alpha male she can find (Sinatra)…and has Allen cuckolded into raising the man’s kid.
Wait a minute wasn’t Farrow supposed to be a modern women who had progressed past her biological hard-wired attraction to the protypical alpha male? I guess she wasn’t as evolved as she thought she was in practice huh?
And what does Woody Allen the guy who wrote all those films where women evolve past their base nature and conspire to find a weedy prototypical nerd like him the most charming man in the universe do….
Well…
He in turn embraces the ‘if it feels good do it’ mantra of sex positive social liberalism too by sticking his dick into his adopted daughter…
And when the marriage to Farrow breaks down this supposed progressive liberal modern empowered feminist woman Farrow throws out every dirty trick in the Lady Macbeth playbook from claiming battery against her limp wristed chump of a former husband to charging him with sexually abusing his children.
The moral of the story ladies and gentlemen is we can’t ‘progress’ past our hard wiring and it’s futile and crazy to try to…oh and don’t marry a feminist because they are cruel vindictive cunts who will fuck up your shit.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure those are not the actual “morals of the story.”
Also, and I feel a little silly even bothering to point it out, Allen and Farrow were famously never married, though that’s probably the least offensive incorrect assumption that Maxx is making here.
Behav/neurobio/cognition student lurker here: I just wanted to cautiously step in and say that it’s no good to completely dismiss the part our biology and evolution plays in the context of our behaviour, because it is in fact quite important. Of course those creeps get it all ass-backwards all the time, but not in the sense that it doesn’t actually influence us.
That said, being a survivor myself, these people just make me want to vomit all over the place. Twice.
That Maxx dude makes me sick. Actually all of them have that effect on me…
Spindrift-MRA: “Men raping children is just in their nature, can’t be helped, so shut up about it. But don’t you go doing things I believe are in women’s true nature to do, cause that’s shameful, slutty and sinful!” T
There is a lot of internal misandry in that mentality they have. That’s what I find (one of many things, actually) is that not only do they hate women, but they seem to hate men just as much. Blaming rape on biological urges that men are powerless to control or resist is not very flattering to men. Rather, it portrays them as mindless brutes who are ruled entirely by instinct and are unable to control their impulses. MRAs, men are people, you know and men ARE capable of controlling themselves.
Zolnier
Projection-the favorite tool of MRAs. Along with willful ignorance, hypocrisy, blanket statements, baseless claims, propaganda, harassment, trolling, sealioning, strawmanning/womaning, etc.
I don’t think it’s equating their level of being Not Great People to say that both Woody Allen and Mia Farrow seem to be not the best parents. It’s just an opinion based on some facts available.The Mariel Hemingway stuff sounds like he lusted after her, but what he actually did (according to her own account) was offer her a romantic trip to Paris after she turned 18. Whether Allen actually touched her child seems like something that will not be proven to any (lawyerly or politically-motivated) skeptic’s satisfaction. My guess is Allen was always creepy around girls (and I’ll use girls here to mean actual girls as well as young women,) Farrow definitely turned on him when the Soon-Yi stuff was revealed, and there’s no way I can separate Allen the person from the many character Allens based on Allen. Can a man who makes such unlikable people just be acting? My own biases just get in the way, mostly because I know nothing but the Soon-Yi stuff about his personal life.
But that MRA dood knows even less even with extra facts thrown in. What he says and what he says about what he says gets in the way of what he means, which is that women need to be fuckholes to men and beta men need to be really carefully and aggressively protective about their women because otherwise their instincts will find bigger cocks. What that has to do with Sinatra and child rape and whatnot, what that has to do with custody and marriage and child visitation in general or specific, and what this has to do with anything is all ignored as the MRA dolt trips over his dick to make whatever point is necessary at whatever moment. In his worldview, there’s a way that Allen could have done it, Farrow could have gone nuts about it, BUT it’s not even their fault because Sinatra’s dick was what the world revolves around.
And that’s what things come to: the authoritarian viewpoint where whenever something bad happens it’s because some bitches didn’t know their place. In this case the bitches are both Allen and Farrow. The MRA view is nothing more than Father Knows Best, with the “Knows” and “Best” parts not up for discussion. The MRAs try to dress that up in every which way, but can’t escape their basic premise: bitches gotta know their place.
I think Sinatra’s “alpha” designation comes from his rumored mob connections, and his ability to pull off a fedora.
MRAs get so bent out of shape about what they perceive as feminist hypocrisy. They think feminists go around “criminalizing masculinity” in public, while secretly sleeping with alphas who display the very Neanderthal traits they decry.
While it is true that the MRA definition of manhood (rapey asshole who gets laid at all costs, preferably with underage or close to underage girls) is problematic and socially harmful and deserves to be criticized, there’s zero evidence that feminists are attracted to/sleeping with rapey hebephilic assholes, or that the women who are sleeping with these men are feminists, or that every man with a female sexual partner is automatically an alpha jerk. Any time a woman does something they don’t like, they label her a feminist. Any time a man does something they approve of, they label him an alpha. They just can’t stop thinking in high school stereotypes.
Can you cram a few more adjectives in there?
The whole “women marry betas and cuckold them with alphas,” idea makes me chortle because I’m currently doing the opposite, according to MRA logic (though it’s a mutual open relationship, not cheating); the guy I married is built and looks like a tatooed “bad boy” who takes breaks from his good-paying job to act/sing/play saxophone. I’m being told *constantly* how hot and charming he is by straight women and gay men alike. The boyfriend, on the other hand, is comparatively shy and sexually inexperienced, is paid less, has a slight build, is shorter and suffers from asthma, eczema and acne scarring. Gosh, it’s almost like we’re capable of deciding who we want to fuck based on completely non-superficial factors or something…
I used to not watch Woody Allen movies because I find them tedious. Now I also don’t watch them because he’s a child molester.
————-
“If they believe women are so hard-wired to sleep with “alpha males”, why do they get so angry when they do? Their own evo psych is against them.”
A couple of the folks above answered the question well. I thought I’d chime in to mention that some of them have this internal narrative where they just want to be a nice guy, respecting and loving her and treating her the way (they claim) women say they want to be treated. (He’ll call her ‘m’lady’ and everything!) In return, she will love the guy back and even have sex with him. However, all of this is not to be because of the perfidy of women! She has sex with the muscular, shallow, inattentive jerk because evo psych. So, these guys have to be angry and hate on women because the women forced them into it.
I’m not entirely convinced that MRAs as a whole believe that. I know that rapists believe all men are like them, and most MRAs are rape apologists including narrowing the definition of rape as much as possible. But I do think that deep down many know that most men don’t rape in any way, but they’re so stuck in the narrative that everything is a woman’s fault that they throw “it’s male biology” out as an excuse.
And then some go “well not all men rape you stupid feminists only some do! And they’re not men at all they’re monsters, but they’re still out there so make sure you stay sober and covered in fabric.” Which is still problematic.
Or, quite often, they label a man an “alpha” and a “jerk” and an “asshole” because he does something they dislike, like sleeping with attractive women while they’re “incels”.
I’ve mentioned this before, but there’s a Swedish feminist blogger called Tanja Suhinina whom I read from time to time, and she’s written some insightful stuff about how there are “Assholes(TM)” just as there are “Nice guys(TM)”. The Nice Guys(TM) aren’t really nice, and the Assholes(TM) aren’t really assholes. An Asshole(TM) is really just some guy who’s fairly attractive and has an easy-going, relaxed personality. He finds it easy to talk to women and to flirt with women, and although he’s not in any way opposed to a serious relationship if he would really fall for someone, he doesn’t go around actively looking for a serious relationship either. He can have sex pretty causally – if it leads to something more, so be it, and if it doesn’t lead to anything more, so be it.
Women are much more relaxed around the Asshole(TM) than they are around the Nice Guy(TM), because they know that if the Asshole(TM) would flirt with them and they would turn him down because they just wanted to be friends, he doesn’t make a big deal out of it – he shrugs his shoulders and go flirt with someone else instead. If the Nice Guy(TM) dumps his feelings in their lap and they just want to be friends and nothing more, on the other hand, they’re never gonna hear the end of it.
This is one of the reasons that the Asshole(TM) gets laid much more than the Nice Guy(TM) – women feel more relaxed around him. The other reason is that if the Asshole(TM) gets rejected, he moves on rather quickly. So if he, say, gets lucky one time out of five that he hits on someone, that will still be quite a lot of sex partners in the end. The Nice Guy(TM) can’t take a rejection, but keep on pining after the woman who rejected him for ages, so if he gets laid one time out of five, that’s very few sex partners in the end.
Anyway, because the Asshole(TM) is more popular with women than the Nice Guy(TM) is, and gets laid more often, the Nice Guy(TM) will label him an Asshole. He thus differs from the Nice Guy(TM) in that he didn’t label himself, but was labelled so by others. Since the Asshole(TM) is only human, he’s probably said bad things from time to time, and the Nice Guy(TM) will seize on these things as proof that the Asshole(TM) really is an asshole, and that women only go for assholes, when actually, he’s neither better nor worse than anyone else, and the Nice Guy(TM) is just being jealous.
First, cuckolding.
I think I understand, as well as an outsider can, the fear of cuckolding that straight men have. The revelation that the child you thought was a product of you really isn’t, and that the spouse you loved and trusted has deceived you about something that was partly the foundation of your relationship — well, that would be world-shattering. You would not love your child any less, but that doesn’t mean you don’t feel like you just got punched in the gut by the universe. The love you feel for your child doesn’t change the fact that your relationship with your spouse is now fouled by betrayal and resentment and a feeling of worthlessness (you were not good enough for her, only your money was).
It would REALLY fucking suck. I doubt I’d ever get over it.
Fortunately, I’ll never know. But I try not to make light of other people’s pain, because it hurts when people do that to me. Straight men fear cuckolding so much that there’s even a genre of pr0n that fetishizes it. It’s a real and unique fear that only affects straight men, and they don’t deserve to be mocked for having it. If doctors sometimes switched out a woman’s eggs without telling her, women would not be wrong to fear this, or write essays about it, or obsess about women it has possibly happened to, or take measures to prevent it, or call it a “women’s issue.” I’d totally be on their side.
However, to speculate that an incident of cuckolding is somehow responsible for child abuse? To say that Woody Allen abused his daughter “in turn” after discovering a betrayal committed by someone else? WTF MRA? Is there any evidence that this has ever happened? The AVFM poster doesn’t offer it as an excuse, but in what kind of mind would there even be a causal relationship between the two events? That’s not how child abuse happens.
You fucking MRAs. Every time you make me feel sympathy, you have to go and ruin it.
#NotAllMRAs #ButMaybeAllMRAs #ImTooFuckingDisgustedToCareRightNow
@Dvarghundspossen
*standing ovation for you*
That asshole/nice guy explanation is perfect.
Seconding NicolaLuna–that’s a very good point, if we’ve learned not to take the ‘nice guy’ description at face value why should we even consider believing the ‘asshole’ description?
Wait – the author of the OP admist Woody “stuck it in his adopted daughter”, but then takes offense when Farrow sues him for child abuse????????
re: the Soon Yi situation
While it might be easy to justify it by saying “oh they were seperated and she wasn’t his real adoptive daughter”, reading up on it a little more it’s still incredibly creepy. Most of what I’ve read recently points to Allen engaging in pretty blatant grooming behaviors.
The other thing I don’t understand: like Bill Cosby, these allegations have been around for a LONG time. I had a friend in 2000 who refused to watch Woody Allen films because of it, yet success in the entertainment industry seems to act as a shield (see also: Polanski).
@ Guest
The “asshole” designation often comes about because of his “arrogance” towards the “nice guy”. Usually in the form of “Hey come on mate, she’s said she’s not interested. Stop pestering her”.
There is so much wrong with that narrative I don’t know how you even clean it up. I think we’d be left with just the word “the” if we tried.
Forgetting the actual situation, it really irks me that people make a bunch of assumptions about others and then shoehorn their monstrosity of a tale into their evo-psych made up bull about the way the world works and other fairy tales.
It’s the same in that post about women’s “meaningless jobs” and “meaningless hobbies”. The chutzpah of deciding what other people’s life is like and what it all means is staggering. Apparently, my life should only be worth living if I’m an HB 8, 9 or 10 who saves myself for the one true man and fulfills whatever fantasy about family and womanhood he has.
The little fantasy narrative too about Woody and Mia really doesn’t connect to reality. It ignores all the other relationships they’ve had; it ignores that they weren’t married and didn’t live together; it ignores the court documents that show that Allen had a lot of issues (the sexual misconduct charge was inconclusive, but if you look at the judge’s words, you’ll see that he thought there was something there); it ignores that there was no criminal case and all the court cases were to determine custody and matters related to the children they shared.
I realize that people judge others (often unfairly), don’t always have all the facts, simplify, etc. But we aren’t all running around the internet making other people’s live miserable (doxxing, swatting, harassment and so on) based on our ignorance world view and convincing other toxic people to join in.
@maistrechat
re Soon Yi – Even if he didn’t adopt several of Mia’s children, including Soon Yi, he was still there as a father figure. They were siblings with the children he claimed. From what I read of the court case, he ignored her for a long time. What prompted Mia to break up with him was finding naked pictures of Soon Yi that he had taken. I can’t remember what Soon Yi had, but it seems like she also had some kind of mental or cognitive issues and there were some claims that Woody took advantage of some of those.
But of course, it’s all Mia’s fault. ‘Cause she’s an ebil feeemale succubus!
Agree fully with Dvärghundspossen.
“…Farrow throws out every dirty trick in the Lady Macbeth playbook…”
Wrong. Lady Macbeth deploys her arsenal of dirty tricks in favor or her husband and against King Duncan, who, as the king, is the “alpha male” of the play. If you’re gonna cite Shakespeare, then get Shakespeare right, and if you’re gonna misread him, at least be creative about it and don’t make dopey mistakes. (Literature 101.)
That’s exactly what I was referring to but I couldn’t think of how to put it.
@Karki, not sure that it *really* matters but I do believe Mariel Hemingway was 16 or 17 when this happened. It may make a sexual relationship with Woody legal had she been 18, but does it make his actions any less reprehensible? Not in my opinion.
Mariel herself said she didn’t even realize what Woody really wanted until much later. She seemed to feel something was “off”, and then questioned him, and he confirmed that he wanted a sexual relationship. Ah, the naivete of youth.
Woody went on to adopt two daughters with Soon Yi and the pictures I’ve seen of him with them is fucking terrifying. The girls always look miserable.
This conversation sure got dark. Am I the only one who finds Old Timey Advertisement Sinatra creepy looking?
@Zolnier
ALL old-timey advertisement (that’s painted) is creepy.