Sitting near the top of the front page of the Men’s Rights Reddit at the moment, with more than 300 upvotes: A post, based on a three and a half year old comment on a Fat Acceptance blog, with the title “Woman gains 65 pounds after getting married, forces husband to get Viagra after he is no longer attracted to her.”
Brace yourself for the HORROR of a wife who put on weight in blatant disregard of the rights of her husband’s boner.
Naturally, the Men’s Rights Redditors are OUTRAGED at this insidious assault on a man’s right to tell his wife that she’s too fat and ugly to fuck.
Here’s the top comment, with more than 100 upvotes:
The charming blueoak9 set the “ignorant sow” straight on a question of Boner Science:
Others concluded, from the fact that he agreed to try Viagra, that she was essentially drugging and raping him. No, really.
![Surprentis 50 points 4 hours ago Might as well be rape at that point. permalink embed save report give gold reply [–]ManRAh 31 points 3 hours ago She's literally drugging him so he'll have sex with her. By definition, it absolutely is.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/drugrape.png?resize=526%2C209&ssl=1)
Carchamp1 expanded on this, er, logic:
So never let it be said that Men’s Rights activists don’t take rape seriously. They take it very seriously when a man is raped by a woman by agreeing to try Viagra and then having consensual sex with her even though she’s a fatty.
@cyberwulf Yes, I’m assuming that because she didn’t explicitly state that it was a mistake, that she doesn’t think she was in the wrong. This is because people usually admit to their behavior being wrong, when they realize it’s wrong, because they don’t want to look like an asshole. No groveling required, just an acknowledgement.
I think this is a fair assumption, although not a proven fact. You’re free to disagree. Opinions are like assholes, and all that.
It STILL is a strawman based on a single, small, tongue-in-cheek comment. How about we focus on my actual arguements, hmmm?
@tinyorc “Exactly. Mrex, I’m sort of baffled by your running assumption that anger is fundamentally coercive and/or manipulative unless explicitly stated otherwise (or unless followed up sufficient grovelling?). ”
Feeling anger is always fine, it’s exploding on someone that is fundamentally abusive/manipulative.
Also general response to the general blog; women were oppressed, but they are and never were completely harmless, physically or emotionally, to men.
@Sparky: “But, this a relationship in which one person has to take a prescription drug in order to have sex with the other person, because they’re no longer physically attracted to that person.”
ED. Drugs. Don’t work. Like that.
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/erectile_dysfunction_faqs/page6_em.htm
http://www.webmd.com/erectile-dysfunction/guide/cialis-levitra-staxyn-viagra-treat-ed
From the first link:
“Viagra doesn’t improve erections in normal men, only in those with difficulty in achieving or maintaining erections sufficient for sexual intercourse due to a true medical problem. It is not an aphrodisiac (sexual stimulant) and will not increase sexual desire. Unlike other treatments for erectile dysfunction, Viagra requires sexual stimulation to function. Without this stimulation, Viagra won’t have any effect.”
Again – they aren’t magical instant boner-pills.
@mrex – how lucky for your partner that you’re a saint who would never raise hir voice after being blindsided by something incredibly hurtful. After all, that would make you a manipulative abuser like the rest of us.
I also love that MRA commenter that thinks ED is “usually not a physical problem”, but rather some divorce-avoidance technique. I can’t even decide what that means. It is, in fact, a completely physical condition, caused by physical and/or emotional factors, like diabetes, heart disease, stress, or acute illness.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/erectile-dysfunction/basics/causes/CON-20034244
@mrex
Ummm…women WERE oppressed? So glad that’s all in the past now.
but he may not have known she was on a particular “journey.” Given their combined raw determination not to communicate about difficult topics, I wouldn’t be amazed if he had no idea, or only the vaguest of ideas, what was even going on in her head. There’s no real indication in the post that they’d spent any talking over HAES ideas together. She just decided to get on with it, and that’s very cool but for her to expect that not to change their relationship is pretty unfair, imo.
I suppose that’s possible. As someone who does do HAES, it seems unlikely to me, and the stuff they’ve been shown to avoid talking about seems to be stuff that would be hurtful to the other person… actually, come to think of it, the only thing where we know they’ve avoided talking about it is the husband not wanting to tell the wife the “real” reason they’re not having sex; there’s no indication that they’ve avoided other issues or that the wife avoids difficult subjects. Also, if he does know how she feels about HAES, that would be all the more reason for him NOT to want to say anything.
@cyberwulf, too bad I already admitted to being a verbally abusive abuser like the rest of you.
I utterly agree with Cyberwulf and Emmy Rae. This conversation has been extremely upsetting to read. I feel like many of the people in this thread are comparing a strangers brief recounting of a horribly painful life moment and comparing it against the Platonic Feminist Relationship Ideal and concluding that the stranger is an awful person.
No, it is not. Abuse is a pattern of behavior. Couples fighting, even couples fighting with screaming nasty words, is not necessarily abuse. I have been emotionally abused. I’ve been screamed at by someone who was mad at me for something I couldn’t help. They are totally different things. A total stranger’s use of a single word to describe an argument and another total stranger’s reported response are not even remotely enough information to diagnose abuse.
How the heck is a person who just got told that their life partner doesn’t want them anymore supposed to immediately, in the very moment of learning this life-shattering information, suppress all their feelings of pain so that they can consider whether their life partner (who doesn’t want them anymore) is at fault? I mean, sure, maybe some people are capable of doing that. But that’s really a lot to expect. You hit me in the face with a 2 by 4 and I’m going to be a little busy bleeding for a moment to really process that it was a total accident, okay?
Also, not making an effort? I’ll borrow a line from danceswithfat.blogspot.com and ask you if you can find a single study showing that more than a small percentage of participants engaging in any sort of weight loss attempt are able to lose a significant amount of weight long term.
I mean yeah, I agree with you that this relationship as presented in the comment is in dire straits, and I don’t think that her husband is necessarily a bad person, but I also 100% disagree with people acting like she’s clearly the bad person for getting super mad. (She could be a bad person. I don’t think there is any evidence in that post though.)
In conclusion,
/signed
And women are obviously still oppressed, just not to the same extent.
Yes, Cyberwulf, I am quite aware of that. o_O
What I’m saying is, it doesn’t matter whether the “prescription filled to ensure arousal” is Viagra or not, or whether it works or not, or who’s idea it was, or why.
What I’m saying is here’s a husband who no longer finds his wife sexually attractive, and that he’s taking a prescription drug that she, at least, believes will “ensure arousal.” And yes, that totally sucks for her. Yes, that is not fair. But neither is trying to force one person to feel sexual arousal and attraction that they do not feel. That is not fair to either one of them. It doesn’t matter whether the pill “works” or not. It’s the assumption that one person in a relationship mut take a prescription drug in order to make themselves feel sexual attraction/arousal to their partner. And she should’t be stuck in a relationship with someone who doesn’t find her attractive.
For once I’m a bit uneasy with this article.
Body shaming is bad. But getting angry at somebody for not wanting sex, and consider lack of desire as a medical condition that needs treatment are things I find very icky. Not because horrible fatties don’t deserve sex ever, but because nobody is entitled to sex and getting angry at people for not feeling desire is terrible behavior.
I understand trying to work through it, because sexual tastes can evolve. But sometimes they don’t, and solving the problem with drugs sounds extremely messed up.
My interpretation of the conversation:
Wife: I’ve tried talking to you about this before, but you brushed me off and said it was just stress from work. Well, now I’m really worried about why we’re not having sex. Will you pleeeease talk to me?!
Husband: Ok, fine. I still love you and all, but you make my boner sad. The fat took my boner tingles away.
Wife: RLY?! Wow. I thought we were together because we had a deep connection and you know, loved each other as whole people. I still want us to have sex even though you’re not perfect yourself…but my extra lbs are just too much for you to handle, I guess.
Husband: Geez, calm down! If it’ll make you get off my ass I’ll have a talk with my boner about trying to get hard again…but I can’t make any promises.
Wife: Ohhhh, thaaaank you, kind sir! Sorry about my huge blow up a minute ago. /s
Hey, mammotheers?
I’m so, so, so sorry for setting loose the monster thread. I repent. I’ll keep my nose out of critiquing word choice for emotional/relationship stuff for all time. Or, I’ll try to. If one of you catches me at it, could you just post “Contrapangloss, don’t”?
Can we please, please, please, please move away from critiquing this specific couple and this specific site (HAES) and go back to the more general stuff?
Please?
We don’t know her! We don’t know her hubby! We don’t know anything about them! We’ve just got the one post, and a sample size of one is anecdata!
Please?
Can we go back to mocking confirm-ably awful people, instead of making up straw-awful-wife or straw-awful-hubby?
…I’m so sorry.
From my last post: that was rather, how I imagine that conversation would go, with a very sarcastic twist…to ya know mock all this garbage speculation about the situation.
And I don’t think it was about “You owe me sex, why am I not getting it?” More like, they are married, have sex on the regular, he stops and doesn’t say why, she is concerned and hurt. It’s reasonable to be upset by it and want answers.
@contrapangloss
That sounds awesome to me! And honestly, I wasn’t offended by your posts.
My husband’s reaction to “viagra as date rape drug”: WTF?
After quoting him the bit about how “most” men using viagra are using it not because of a physical problem but because they’re not with a hot enough woman: OK, I guess if you’re that out of touch with reality it makes more sense to believe viagra is a date rape drug.
I don’t know how these guys’ marriage turned out, but if the husband is committed to trying to find his partner attractive then I think there is some reason for optimism. Though the fact that things got so bad is reason for pessimism. Both my husband and I have found that not only do attractions change, they often change based on the people you date. And I also find that by trying to see the beauty in different body types, I’m more able to do so in the future, and just in general I find a wider range of people attractive than when I was younger. But if he can’t be attracted to her, both of them would probably be better off seeing other people. BOTH. She does not deserve being stuck in a marriage with someone who can’t be attracted to her, and the idea that no one will be attracted her, or people will only be attracted to her despite her weight, is one of those lies society tells us. I wonder if Red No. 3’s idea of a thin-admirer “orientation” applies in the case of the husband here.
I’m going to agree with everybody who find all this speculation and constructing whole narratives about people’s life, disturbing.
Saying that “exploding” (whatever that may mean in this case. Personally, I agree with Jarnsaxa that it could mean that she could have just burst crying.) is not a good reaction or not a mature way to discuses things?
Yes, that would be okay thing to say.
Saying that nobody is entitled to sex? Perfectly true.
Saying that the whole Viagra (or whatever) thing is icky and could be seen as coercive? Also okay.
And that precisely what some commenters posted.
But what is going on with all this reading the whole life of two people from, what, few paragraphs of text?
Wtf is up with that?
With all due respect, your comments are ignoring a lot from what few of “her words” we do have. You also ignore that we do have some of his words too.
The biggest thing you are ignoring is very last part of her post:
You say she’s not showing any remorse and that she’s using her anger to get her way.
But this clearly shows that’s not at all true. She doesn’t expect her husband to change. She thinks it’s, somehow, her fault and that she either need to make herself miserable but fitting the look he wants for her or that she needs to find somebody else who will love her as she is.
She isn’t forcing or demanding things of him at all.
Heck, from what little we know it’s even possible that after 4 months of him ignoring her and refusing to communicate (and I argue after 2 years of him noticing she’s gaining weight but not saying anything about how important her looks are for him) after she finally had to resort to “begging” him to tell her what’s wrong (and after he already lied to her once about the problem) he told her, in his own words, that “since you gained so much weight, you transformed into someone I hardly recognize”.
So basically he told her that she’s deformed and everything she is is, to him, based on her body. Hell, he could have told her that she turned into She-Hulk or Godzilla! It would have about the same emotional impact.
She then “exploded”. And yes it could just be crying and telling him that she is the same person so how can she be unrecognizable? And maybe asking why he hadn’t said anything sooner or why he lied to her before.
After that he may have been the one to suggest prescription. You also note that she say that “he promised he will try to start having sex with me again. He is getting prescription filled to ensure arousal and we are setting some counseling seasons.”.
To me that looks like “He will try. He will get meds” = his promised made to try and save the relationship and “We are setting some counseling” as something they both agreed on and came on the idea together.
My point is?
We know almost nothing about those two people. We can try to get some part of the story from her post but it’s may be absolutely wrong.
And if somebody is ignoring parts they don’t like? Then it’s almost sure they’ll get it wrong.
@denisleeza, I don’t think she’s a bad person or some monster, either. I think she probably did just lash out after getting some news she found genuinely upsetting, and I’ve said I totally get that. But she still needs to apologize. It’s crappy to ask someone how they feel about something sensitive and then lash out at them when they tell you the truth. I’ve had that happen and it’s like, what, you’d rather I lie to you?! God.
You can understand when people regroup and are like, hey, I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have yelled at you, guess I was just stressing out. …You still remember for awhile, though, lol
All I know is that I’d probably be pretty bummed out if my own partner put on 45+ lbs on the grounds that he needs dessert more than three times a week and exercise is a tedious drag and he should listen to his body because it knows… everything. Sure, it would be his choice to make… but if he were to yell at me about why are we not having sex and how dare I have an opinion about his body and sex in marriage isn’t about (my) physical attraction, which is all in my head ANYWAY and really just an absurd fantasy based largely on magazine ads and romance novels… I’d probably just sigh and see myself out the back door.
Maybe that makes me a bad and shallow person, but I can live with that, lol
Seconding Catherine.
It’s interesting to contrast this story with this one. [ctrl+f for “wife’s weight”]
I’ve been lurking in this thread because as someone with a history of disorder eating and weight fluctuations, this subject is a touchy one for me.
I don’t know what else to say but I’m Seconding ghost bird and deniseliza. Nthing the calls to not be judgmental of this couple when we know so little about them. I’m really uncomfortable with the way people are painting one or the other as abusive assholes. Couples fight sometimes. It’s normal.
If my healthy wife joined a cult that told her that being obese was good and right, and then she became obese based on the cult’s support, my lack of attraction for her would not be the greatest of my worries. Figuring out how to get her off this self-destructive path would be.
On the other hand, if instead I joined that cult, I would hope my wife would do whatever she could to get me out. Hurt feelings be damned, just get these literally poisonous ideas out of my head.
This poor woman apparently plans to keep purposefully overeating and gaining weight. Is there no amount of obesity that would be too much? At 500 pounds it’s still, “You go, girl”?
AND THAT’S FINE. If she understands the associated risks of obesity and their sharp increase with age and decides that’s still better than whatever it would take for her to attain an ideal body fat percentage, that’s OK. It’s her own damn body. She’s not on life support. She’s just fat.
Or feels that it’s better to do stuff to mitigate the risks, and to directly address disease for which high BMI is a risk factor if she does get it, e.g. exercise, eat enough fruits and vegetables, drink moderately, not smoke, count carbs and check blood sugar if she becomes diabetic.
Fuck off Paul.
@Paul
Uh…..
Did you just gloss over the fact that HAES is not about deliberate weight gain – it’s about finding what works for your body? And where the hell did you get the idea that it’s a cult?