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Woman Oppresses Husband By Getting Fat; Men's Rights Redditors Outraged

Huh/ Maybe she should get in touch with this guy. (Actual weight-gain ad circa 1970)
Maybe she should get in touch with this guy. (Actual weight-gain ad circa 1970)

Sitting near the top of the front page of the Men’s Rights Reddit at the moment, with more than 300 upvotes: A post, based on a three and a half year old comment on a Fat Acceptance blog, with the title “Woman gains 65 pounds after getting married, forces husband to get Viagra after he is no longer attracted to her.”

Brace yourself for the HORROR of a wife who put on weight in blatant disregard of the rights of her husband’s boner.

Oh, the bonermanity!
Oh, the bonermanity!

Naturally, the Men’s Rights Redditors are OUTRAGED at this insidious assault on a man’s right to tell his wife that she’s too fat and ugly to fuck.

Here’s the top comment, with more than 100 upvotes:

ruskyandrei 103 points 4 hours ago       I just can't help but feel like I am the one who should change ?  Must be quite difficult to grasp this basic truth when all the media bombards you with bullshit about how men should love you no matter what etc...

The charming blueoak9 set the “ignorant sow” straight on a question of Boner Science:

blueoak9 66 points 3 hours ago*   "Wiil ensure arousal"? Ignorant sow. Viagra doesn't make you aroused. It just causes an erection. Learn something about men's bodies for fuck's sake.

Others concluded, from the fact that he agreed to try Viagra, that she was essentially drugging and raping him. No, really.

Surprentis 50 points 4 hours ago   Might as well be rape at that point.      permalink     embed     save     report     give gold     reply  [–]ManRAh 31 points 3 hours ago   She's literally drugging him so he'll have sex with her. By definition, it absolutely is.

Carchamp1 expanded on this, er, logic:

carchamp1 1 point 44 minutes ago   This is not consent. He's doing it because he has to. In case you haven't heard divorce really sucks for men.  I've been saying for many years that Viagra is a rape drug. This is but one example. I'm telling you that these guys who can't get it up, can't get it up for the wives. It's not a physical problem usually. These guys are just trying to avoid divorce.  edit: Just in case you're not sure where I'm going with this, you are fantastically off base.  "He is consenting to it, but obviously he does not want to have sex with her."  Are you fucking kidding me?

So never let it be said that Men’s Rights activists don’t take rape seriously. They take it very seriously when a man is raped by a woman by agreeing to try Viagra and then having consensual sex with her even though she’s a fatty.

 

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erika
erika
6 years ago

There is no way that OP was written by a real woman.

scarlettpipstrelle
6 years ago

That ad art almost looks like R. Crumb’s work, but it’s not, I know.

anemonerosie
6 years ago

blech, I hate the term “real woman.”
@erika, what about the OP rings false for you?

robteix
6 years ago

I was going to comment on double standards and the incoherence of the husband but you know what? Screw that. The whole thing just made me sick! The comments are abominable as usual, but I can’t stop thinking about the poor woman with the crappy husband.

Grrr… this really rubbed me the wrong way.

acrannymint
acrannymint
6 years ago

Of course she could have been an unhealthy weight to begin with and now is horrors a size 10 or 12

Ivy Shoots (@IvyShoots)

erika, I thought the same when I read it, but seeing it in context gives a different perspective. It comes about halfway down this page https://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/dating-fat/ in the comments. The people replying appear to take it seriously.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

So, according to MRAs, if a woman is so drunk she’s passed out it’s not rape because drunk sluts are asking for it. But if a man agrees to try Viagra and has consensual sex with a woman while she’s on it, it is rape?

Somebody is very confused. It must be me and my inferior ladybrains because we all know that manlogic is always impeccable. This must only make sense to the superior male brain.

MaudeLL
MaudeLL
6 years ago

Yeah the OP sounds just like an MRA imaginary woman.

Ivy Shoots (@IvyShoots)

@MaudeLL You think the OP sounds just like how MRAs imagine women? But if she’s real, then you’re saying they’re right, that the woman’s feelings and expectations are ridiculous.

suffrajitsu
suffrajitsu
6 years ago

There are certainly women who are shallow and prone to fat-shaming, but the idea that a woman OWES her partner to stay beautiful and thin even after her youth is past is a pretty gendered idea. Women might gripe about their husbands gaining weight as well but I’ve never heard a woman claim her husband *betrayed* her somehow by gaining weight, and I definitely haven’t heard it with that much rage, like it’s this horrible crime to gain weight over the years.

Hell, Aishwarya Rai, dubbed by many people the most beautiful woman in the world, got a backlash for not losing enough weight quickly enough. After pregnancy: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/05/most-beautiful-woman-in-world-slammed-over-baby-fat/

Mnemosyne
Mnemosyne
6 years ago

Wow, way to misunderstand what rape is, MRAs! Unless said MRA is a doctor and has a patient has cholesterol, etc., stuff like this is none of their business. Although, an MRA would probably make a terrible doctor because they’d be generally unpleasant.

Speaking of which, I really ought to start exercising more. I want to live as long as possible. I guess should try some of those rules for myself.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
6 years ago

The OP sounds real to me. An MRA writing the OP would have put emphasis on how much food she eats, and how horrible her husband is to betray her this way. Instead, the OP sounds like she is genuinely in pain and conflicted.

AltoFronto
AltoFronto
6 years ago

I did feel a little squicked at the part where the OP said she “exploded at him”, and the idea of taking what is effectively a potent cardiovascular medication for what is presumably a psychological issue. Like, her husband comes off as a shallow jerk, but ideally, I’d think the therapy would come before trying to initiate sex again… But it’s clear none of what the MRAsshats have to say to this is helpful or respectful. They don’t want to think of ways for men to negotiate his side of the situation, they just want to disparage fat women.

Lids
6 years ago

Ok ok so let me get this straight – marital rape laws ought to be irradicated because after you exchange vows women can’t say no to sex, but if a men can be raped after marriage?

Don’t get me wrong, there’s an element of coersion to giving someone viagra when the reason they can’t get aroused is lack of attraction. The husband is still an asshole, but that changes nothing. But saying women can’t be raped by their husbands after marriage but the husbands can’t is well hypocritical as fuck. Surprise there.

Of course we know this isn’t about alleged rape. This is about her being “a lazy hambeast” as they would put it. They do not care about rape victims of either gender – they never have. Male rape victims are just a talking point for them, much like white feminists who bring up black women issues to justify feminism, but exclude black women and other poc from feminism and/or make them feel bad for speaking out about problems native to them specifically.

TLDR; MRAs are hypocrites, as usual.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

I feel bad for both parties. Dude can’t help it that he’s not attracted to his wife anymore. He’s agreed to try to change his thinking in therapy and take frigging boner pills to save the marriage. It won’t have been easy to tell someone you love you’re not physically attracted to them any longer.

Agreeing to go to therapy and take Viagra in order to attempt to have sex with someone you love but aren’t attracted to though is rape in 0 ways.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

I had to look up HAES, and OMG, did my red flags ever go up. HAES is Health At Every Size. Basically, it’s an anti-diet, pro-healthy-eating lifestyle community. If she gained 65 pounds from eating healthfully and exercising for health and pleasure rather than skinniness, it stands to reason why she was miserable while “slender”. She must have been unhealthy then. Starving herself, even. Maybe she was 65 pounds underweight! And that didn’t occur even once to these misodges. No, she’s an “ignorant sow” for getting her husband to consent to taking Viagra so they can have sex again and he can adjust to what she looks like now, and learn to find her attractive again. Like the dude has no agency, and she’s “raping” him by asserting her desire for a normal married sex life. Yuh-huh…

It also crossed my mind that maybe the husband’s sudden loss of desire could be due to health problems of his own. She doesn’t say what age he is, or if he has any chronic health problems, like diabetes or heart disease, that are linked to impotence. If he developed impotence independently of her weight gain, what then? Would they blame THOSE on her for being a fat cow, too?

Supernova
Supernova
6 years ago

The link on reddit is titled “Woman gains 65 pounds after getting married, forces husband to get viagra after he is no longer attracted to her”. But from what it sounds like to me, it seems that she got really angry and upset and then he apologized and promised to try to have sex with her again on his own terms. And since they’re going to counseling, it seems like they’re both trying to fix the problem, especially since it seemed very hard for the husband to tell his wife that he wasn’t physically attracted to her.

QuantumInc
QuantumInc
6 years ago

It seems they’ve missed the point as to why date rape drugs are bad. The aim of drugging a person is to reduce them to a state where they can’t resist to anything, as in completely unconscious, or at least thoroughly disoriented. In addition the whole concept of “drugging someone” implies you do it without their consent, whereas this story implies Viagra was HIS idea.

Admittedly it sounds like he is coming from a place of guilt. He wants to do the right thing for his lover, he doesn’t want to add to the harmful messages affecting women. These are noble goals, worthwhile in their own right, though I can’t imagine guilt is a good emotion for repairing your sex life. Unfortunately she is physically different from when they first fell in love, and so his physical attraction is diminished. However I think it possible that they could establish a new sense of physical attraction. Ironically “BBW” porn might be more helpful than simple Viagra. The MRAs are right that Viagra simply makes your dick hard, and doesn’t really affect psychology. If they start having sex where he’s simply isn’t there psychologically that will obviously make things far worse.

Machine Gun Sally
Machine Gun Sally
6 years ago

I agree with you marinerachel. I feel bad for them both. It may be shallow, but the husband can’t force himself to feel attraction that just isn’t there. That lack of attraction is probably a response to societal pressures, but that doesn’t change the fact.

Good for the wife that she has found a way to feel happy with herself.

Clearly they both recognized that there was enough there to work on the relationship and go to counselling, but the use of viagra in this situation still makes me feel squicky (not because it would be rape – he just does not seem to have physical problems).

Ultimately, neither of them is forced to stay in this relationship if it no longer works for them. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Just because a relationship doesn’t last until someone dies does not mean that relationship wasn’t *successful*. If they were happy together and then decided that they would be happier as friends from then on, that is still success in my book.

Sorry, got a bit off topic.

QuantumInc
QuantumInc
6 years ago

Calling the situation rape is so utterly absurd. Is this the new MRA thing, calling it rape whenever a man feels pressured to sexually accommodate a woman? Then simultaneously claiming all reports of rape from women are really because the man failed to sexually accommodate.

misseb47
misseb47
6 years ago

Bina-“I had to look up HAES, and OMG, did my red flags ever go up. HAES is Health At Every Size. Basically, it’s an anti-diet, pro-healthy-eating lifestyle community. If she gained 65 pounds from eating healthfully and exercising for health and pleasure rather than skinniness, it stands to reason why she was miserable while “slender”. She must have been unhealthy then. Starving herself, even. Maybe she was 65 pounds underweight!”

That’s what I was thinking. She must have been putting herself under so much pressure to be thin that it was affecting her health. I bet she was more than just slender if she felt that she needed the HAES program. Of course that is lost on these male ‘rights’ activists

peristyle
peristyle
6 years ago

I don’t know what to think. This woman does sound like she was miserable before, with all her “rules” about food, and it sounded like she was obsessing about it, which is not healthy.

I wonder if she was 65 pounds underweight, however. A person can only get so many pounds underweight before they stop menstruating and suffering serious health issues, as well as not looking very well. She probably was underweight before, and now has gained some weight and is maybe on the high end of healthy, or slightly overweight?

But, who knows?

Is that enough of a physical transformation to make her husband not be attracted to her? Where there other factors that were in play here?

Don’t know. I wish we could see pictures of what she looked like before, and what she looked like at the time she wrote that post.

In any case, the husband isn’t being raped if he agrees to Viagra. The MRAs are barking up the wrong tree. But then, they always do.

FatMax
FatMax
6 years ago

Actually, the couple in the OP should have agreed that he work out more, because older men need a strong cardio to keep those certain functions active. And she participates as the better half of a strong couple, everyone wins.

Uncivilized Elk
Uncivilized Elk
6 years ago

This comment section is filled with far too many assumptions for my liking…
There’s just enough details to engage in a conversation about this couple’s personal life. She asked for help on that thread and it seems some people offered to discuss the issue with her in more detail, and hopefully the therapy sessions go well.

But all the speculation here is just really… baseless, and feels icky.

Catalpa
Catalpa
6 years ago

Ehhh, the bit about ‘exploding’ at him, and them him agreeing to try to have sex again did feel a little coercive of her, imo.

That said, it sounds like this is a matter of them trying to work through their relationship problems and perserve their marriage, not rape. I’m not sure if popping viagra is the right way to go about it, seems like it’s treating the symptoms rather than the cause (whether this be possible healthy problems on the husbands part killing his sex drive or if it’s a matter of addressing the expectations that have been foisted on him by society). I think communicating should be something they should be emphasizing.

Uncivilized Elk
Uncivilized Elk
6 years ago

Typo on last post, I meant to say “There’s just NOT enough details to engage in conversations about this couple’s personal life.”

Also, exploded often just means “getting angry at”, which happens all the time in most relationships as far as I’m aware.
And hey, sexless relationships are actually non-relationships for many people, so it can be an issue worth getting angry over.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Catalpa, I’m going to second you. Also going to second Uncivilized Elk though, with the assumptions and jumping the gun feeling a bit icky.

As worded, it does sound sort of coercive. It might come across as more coercive than it really is, though. I’m going to chalk it up to interwebs and it being notoriously hard to read tone and not make a ton of assumptions, because it’s impossible to really know what was going on.

Hope the couple figures out things and both of them are happy with whatever result/decision they end up making.

Ann Morgan
Ann Morgan
6 years ago

About the weight gain ad from the 1970’s. A lot more people tended to smoke back then, and often smoking will keep you very thin, at least when you are young. So that might have been the thing with the weight-gain ads. They probably didn’t have photo-shopped size 0 models so much, either.

Ann Morgan
Ann Morgan
6 years ago

Let me amend that, smoking will *sometimes* keep you very thin. Like most things, the effects vary from person to person.

Sarah
Sarah
6 years ago

Men don’t owe you sex.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

….WHOA. FULL STOP.

Uncivilized Elk, could you please reconsider this little bit?

And hey, sexless relationships are actually non-relationships for many people, so it can be an issue worth getting angry over.

Yes, sudden withdrawal probably hurts a ton. Yes, people in relationships who love each other ought to try and do things to not hurt each other and to make each other happy.

But there’s a line.

Being angry because someone doesn’t feel like having sex is not a thing that should be acceptable.

Feeling hurt? Totally. Blowing up out of hurt and frustration because not understanding something is totally understandable.

But angry?

That makes me nervous, because generally anger seems like it comes from a place of feeling owed or entitled, and an awful lot of damage comes out of anger.

I don’t think you meant it in a bad way, but… yeah.

[for clarity, not talking about this particular case, just in general.]

[[also, going to admit that I’m totes not an authority and could totally be in the wrong]]

Steph
Steph
6 years ago

I will be honest, I don’t believe OP is a real person either. Like, I do think this scenario is possible but yeah. I don’t think a woman is obliged to stay slim, that said, if he really can’t be with her because he doesn’t find her attractive, he would be better off leaving. I think if you are truly in love with someone their weight shouldn’t bother you.

J. Schmidt
J. Schmidt
6 years ago

I’m iffy on her “exploding”: could be a run of the mill argument, could be coercive.

Why are people assuming viagra is the prescription? Could be something else: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-567202/Better-Viagra-The-new-libido-drug-boosts-sex-drive-AND-causes-arousal.html

Viscaria
Viscaria
6 years ago

70s weight gain ads mess with my head something fierce. They make me feel like I should hate myself for being too skinny while I’m busy hating myself for being too fat. I can only really do one at a time! (Or, preferably, neither; but that’s a tricky goal to meet.)

Bacon
Bacon
6 years ago

I believe the OP is a real person, because the original quote is from a Health at Every Size blog that’s filled with real people trying to give up disordered eating behaviours (keeping a diary and only eating puddings three times a week is pretty ordinary in that respect). And yeah, sometimes giving up disordered eating behaviours means you will gain weight because not everyone is naturally slender, which is pretty much the entire point of health at every size. OK, her situation and her reaction don’t sound ideal, but humans are all fallible. I have more trouble believing the MRAs are real humans, because their crushing lack of empathy for half the species is way less believable than someone getting fat on a fat-positivity blog…

Moggie
Moggie
6 years ago

Desert only three times a week doesn’t sound like a bad idea, TBH. Actually, I’d avoid desert entirely, unless you use strong sunblock and a big hat.

Bryce
Bryce
6 years ago

Bina:
“No, she’s an “ignorant sow” for getting her husband to consent to taking Viagra so they can have sex again and he can adjust to what she looks like now, and learn to find her attractive again. Like the dude has no agency, and she’s “raping” him by asserting her desire for a normal married sex life. Yuh-huh…”

Okay, whether real or just a dreamt up scenario, some disturbing things implied here and in some other comments.

Why should he be subject to guilt trips so SHE can have a normal sex life? What about what he wants?

A total lack of arousal isn’t normal, particularly for men. If he really couldn’t get aroused the likely explanation is a partner who isn’t within NORMAL parameters appearance/weight wise. Instead of acknowledging men also have the right to their preferences in regards to what they find attractive, the guy must have a horrible waif fetish or something.

Viagra is meant for erectile dysfunction, sometimes circulatory problems, not lack of desire. Requesting someone take a drug to make them physically amenable for sex they don’t want is obviously questionable. We don’t even have to go into the defcon one level outrage that would ensue should the roles be reversed here.

And to think people here have previously argued that consent always involves desire, that sex should involve mutual pleasure 😕 (something I agree with but, you know, double standards).

Whoever said this must be a “crappy husband” is off base too. Terrible people would abandon their spouse or emotionally withdraw in these circumstances. Merely expressing lack of interest in intercourse however, isn’t a moral failing.

RaikonL
RaikonL
6 years ago

You know, gaining 65 pounds might even be healthy if you weigh 70 pounds or so. I would be curious how much weight the woman had before she started to gain weight. But geez, why is it always that if a problem in a relationship comes up, everyone asks “who is at fault?”

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

She says she’d maintained the physique she’d had 65lbs prior for four years of their relationship. You can’t survive for four years being 65lbs underweight. Even she says she wasn’t unhealthy at the time, just miserable, and you know what? Dessert no more than three times a week and working out every other day isn’t unhealthy.

The most likely scenario is she’d been a fitness junkie, the pendulum swung to the other extreme and she became obese.

AND THAT’S FINE. If she understands the associated risks of obesity and their sharp increase with age and decides that’s still better than whatever it would take for her to attain an ideal body fat percentage, that’s OK. It’s her own damn body. She’s not on life support. She’s just fat.

At the same time, it’s completely unreasonable to get pissed with someone for not being attracted to you. I’m guessing she “blew up” out of hurt, not actual entitlement to her husband’s attraction to her. It’s still not OK though.

And, yes, the way the comment is worded could be interpreted as “I scared him into taking boner pills and sexing me”.

Walter
Walter
6 years ago

I don’t want to sound like an MRA troll or whatever, but I can’t get mad at a person for not wanting to have sex with someone. Being married doesn’t entitle someone to sex and that goes for men and women. If her husband doesn’t want to have sex with her, that’s not a good sign for the marriage, but it’s still his right refuse sex. From what the woman wrote, I can’t see how he’s being an asshole.

Now, I’m not trying to say that she did anything wrong by gaining weight. It’s normal for people to gain weight as they age and there is nothing wrong at all with being overweight. I just think it’s wrong to expect people to have sex with you, even if you’re married.

Spindrift
Spindrift
6 years ago

@marinerachel “At the same time, it’s completely unreasonable to get pissed with someone for not being attracted to you.”

Totally agree with that.

I do think the husband should have let her know how he felt sooner though, but it sounds like he avoided saying anything cause he wanted to spare her feelings. I can imagine she’d be a bit angry after he’d kept quiet about how he felt for such a long time, so her exploding at him seems understandable to me.

maghavan
maghavan
6 years ago

“At the same time, it’s completely unreasonable to get pissed with someone for not being attracted to you.”

See “Neglect Rape” 2 posts back

Misha
Misha
6 years ago

Also, exploded often just means “getting angry at”, which happens all the time in most relationships as far as I’m aware.
And hey, sexless relationships are actually non-relationships for many people, so it can be an issue worth getting angry over.

Seconding contrapangloss on this – could just be interweb miswording and stuffs, but I find this really problematic.

My partner identifies as grey-A (not strictly asexual, but in the ‘grey’ area between sexual and asexual). I would never be ‘angry’ at him if he no longer felt like engaging in a sexual relationship, and I feel it would be incredibly wrong to be angry at anyone who no longer wants to have sex.

I would be upset, sure. Understanding that sexuality isn’t something you can control doesn’t mean a part of me wouldn’t still worry and self-blame, or cry, or talk about the fears this might bring up concerning the relationship – the grey-A spectrum varies massively, Mr Misha’s place on it means we’ve actually had a consistently sexual relationship – but I can’t imagine ‘exploding’ at him in any sense. Becoming angry and taking those feelings out on him would be coming from a place of entitlement within me, and nobody is entitled to sex from anyone.

Actually (potential over-sharing ahead y’all, like it hasn’t happened already) it’s myself and not Mr M who is currently experiencing complete lack of a sex drive because of stress, mental health and, ironically, weight-gain on my part. And thinking about it, I can only imagine how much pain it would cause me if Mr M were to explode at me for not wanting sex right now.

NB: Just to clarify this isn’t really directed at the OP. Looked over what I wrote and realise it could be taken as judging the wife for saying she exploded at her husband. Seconding what other folks have said – there’s not enough info to really assume too much about their RL interactions and relationship dynamic. I just wanted to directly challenge the comment that no sex in relationships is something that warrants anger as a response.

tinyorc
6 years ago

peristyle:

I wish we could see pictures of what she looked like before, and what she looked like at the time she wrote that post.

marinerachel:

The most likely scenario is she’d been a fitness junkie, the pendulum swung to the other extreme and she became obese.

Um guys, can we stop speculating on what this woman weighed then and what she weighs now and whether one can healthily gain 65 pounds and under what circumstances and whether she actually underwent a major physical transformation etc etc?Because that’s not the point of this story. The point of this story is that a woman abandoned a lifestyle that was making her miserable for one that makes her happier, and now her husband no longer finds her physically attractive due to the weight gain that ensued.

marinerachel:

At the same time, it’s completely unreasonable to get pissed with someone for not being attracted to you.

I can understand being incredibly upset and hurt upon discovering that a long-term partner no longer finds you physically attractive. I can also imagine expressing that upset through anger. Not all anger is coercive or manipulative. It’s unreasonable to get pissed at a stranger or acquaintance for not being attracted to you, but if my boyfriend told me that he’s no longer attracted to me because I stopped shaving my legs, I’d be angry. Not because I think he has an obligation to be attracted to hairy legs, but because it would be shattering to discover that his attraction to me is contingent on such a small thing.

I think counselling is a good idea for this couple, but not the Viagra, or the husband “trying to have sex” with his wife out of a sense of obligation. Husband’s not in the wrong here either; like, it’s obviously sad that his physical attraction to his wife turned out to be predicated almost entirely on her weight, but even with the best of intentions at heart, you really can’t force yourself to be attracted to someone. He doesn’t owe her sex, and similarly she has no obligation to maintain a lifestyle that makes her sad for the sake of his boner. It sounds like they both value the relationship enough to try and make it work, but it’s possible this was the beginning of the end of that marriage. Which is also fine. Wife deserves someone who is attracted to her when she is living a life that makes her happy. Husband deserves someone can maintain a weight he finds attractive without sacrificing her happiness.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

Men don’t owe you sex.

Well, it’s a good thing no one’s claiming that to be the case, either. Now, if only we could get a lot of men to realize the same thing regarding women…

As for the OP: My SO gained a lot of weight a few years into our relationship, and we did stop sexing for many months, but not because I didn’t want to; She felt unattractive and undesirable because of her weight, and nothing I said made her realize that I didn’t care about the extra kilos because I desired her, not just her body.

I do echo the opinion that if you truly love someone as a person, not just as a flesh handbag to show off, some additional weight really doesn’t matter. People change, bodies change, and nobody can be expected to stay the same weight forever. If the other party starts getting dangerously over- or underweight health-wise, then it’s time to talk. And yet, nobody should be expected to have sex with someone they don’t find attractive for whatever reason*.

All that is secondary, though. The real issue here is that MRAs are, once again, comparing rape to things that aren’t rape. Do I think the woman is being unreasonable? I do. Is she raping him? Hell no, only a willfully word-challenged dumbass would claim anything remotely like that.

*This is, of course, something that flies right over the head of Nice Guys(TM) and their ilk, who insist women should just give them a chaaaaaance despite feeling no attraction towards them.

Kootiepatra
6 years ago

I had to look up HAES, and OMG, did my red flags ever go up. HAES is Health At Every Size. Basically, it’s an anti-diet, pro-healthy-eating lifestyle community.

HAES was actually my entry point into feminism. While I’ve never become a full-on card-carrying adherent–partially because I’ve always been in the average-to-somewhat-overweight, “You’re not REALLY fat” (uuuuuugh) zone and therefore haven’t received the brunt of fat hate like other people have—it was super, super helpful to me to help navigate some of my own body issues, and how to support some dear friends who were significantly obese and dealing with poor treatment from their doctors, self hatred, etc.

HAES is way more about learning to accept your own body, and find out how to treat it well (eat well and get yourself moving a bit) than it is about forcing other people to like your body. Aside from demanding that the doctor find out what is actually wrong, rather than just saying, “Well of course your knee hurts; you’re too fat” and refusing to take x-rays (yeah, that happens sometimes), there’s no call for HAES-folks to go ballistic on their friends and family for Not Getting It.

So I got as far as “exploded” before I went, “Hm. Could be a troll.”

But you know what? It could also not be. When MRAs scour the internet for damning quotes from feminists—and, y’know, don’t just make them up *coughcoughJB*—they almost always end up in comment sections, Facebook pages, or small, obscure Tumblrs. Because people are people, and people from any slice of society can have short tempers, problematic ideas, and serious misconceptions. Especially if that person is isolated, struggling through a new concept on their own. But if those people get any kind of real platform and fame, they will get shot down and called out by others in the movement they’re trying to join, which is why you have to find the smaller, more private areas of the internet to find them going unchallenged.

Yes, fifteen year-olds on Tumblr who are just discovering the academic terms of patriarchy, oppression, etc., can sometimes say really wrong and unhelpful things about it. Because they’re fifteen, and probably haven’t been at this for very long. (Of course, some of them are also 4chan sockpuppets.) Of course a woman who is trying to figure out how to take care of her body and be happy can make mistakes in how she navigates that with her husband, because this is all new and her emotions are raw and she’s trying to figure out how not to hate herself anymore.

And of course, MRAs are too delighted to discover, “THEY DO IT TOO” to slow down and realize that a lone commenter on a blog is not even equivalent to the hateful Redditors with hundreds/thousands of upvotes, much less so to the figureheads of MRA/PUA/MGTOW who say terrible things as the leaders of their respective movements.

Kootiepatra
6 years ago

Just to clarify the above: I quoted Bina for agreement/expounding purposes, not as a contradiction. 🙂

Shalimar
Shalimar
6 years ago

It’s extremely unlikely she was ever 65 lbs underweight. For all but the tallest people with bigger body types, that is on-your-death-bed thin.

On the other hand, say her ideal weight for her height and body type is 140. She went through high school and college at 185, which would be borderline obese according to the charts but is a normal looking and healthy weight to the vast majority of us. If she starved herself and exercised heavily to get down to 120 for years, she would be way too skinny but still might think that number isn’t abnormally low because other women with smaller builds weigh less.

Then she goes back to 185 and they both seem to be having a little trouble adjusting to accepting that as normal. Yes, it’s shallow and judgmental, but we all have moments of being more shallow and judgmental than we ideally see ourselves as, and they seem to have reacted like adults and accepted their lives as they are now rather than pretending nothing was different. He seems like a decent guy from the info we have, I assume a few therapy sessions will help him realize that almost all of the things that attracted him to his wife are still there.

.She and her husband both seem normal to me in the story, though viagra does seem like an extreme solution if he isn’t have erectile problems in general. Even if he doesn’t get aroused by her as easily as he did when she was thinner, there have to be many types of foreplay they can try that would work more cheaply and more entertainingly than taking a drug.

Shalimar
Shalimar
6 years ago

As for the MRA response, they show over and over that they wouldn’t react like the husband at all. Therapy? Viagra? They would all have been cheating on her as soon as she gained weight and divorced her when she got upset about the lack-of-sex. That is how actual selfish assholes react.

J. Schmidt
J. Schmidt
6 years ago

That last one rests upon an interesting point: sex, even sex done freely of your own accord, is rape if you don’t want it or don’t like it.

Principled these guys are not.

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