Sitting near the top of the front page of the Men’s Rights Reddit at the moment, with more than 300 upvotes: A post, based on a three and a half year old comment on a Fat Acceptance blog, with the title “Woman gains 65 pounds after getting married, forces husband to get Viagra after he is no longer attracted to her.”
Brace yourself for the HORROR of a wife who put on weight in blatant disregard of the rights of her husband’s boner.
Naturally, the Men’s Rights Redditors are OUTRAGED at this insidious assault on a man’s right to tell his wife that she’s too fat and ugly to fuck.
Here’s the top comment, with more than 100 upvotes:
The charming blueoak9 set the “ignorant sow” straight on a question of Boner Science:
Others concluded, from the fact that he agreed to try Viagra, that she was essentially drugging and raping him. No, really.
![Surprentis 50 points 4 hours ago Might as well be rape at that point. permalink embed save report give gold reply [–]ManRAh 31 points 3 hours ago She's literally drugging him so he'll have sex with her. By definition, it absolutely is.](https://i0.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/drugrape.png?resize=526%2C209&ssl=1)
Carchamp1 expanded on this, er, logic:
So never let it be said that Men’s Rights activists don’t take rape seriously. They take it very seriously when a man is raped by a woman by agreeing to try Viagra and then having consensual sex with her even though she’s a fatty.
Aren’t “beards” usually used so that people can have access to health insurance and stuff?
*looks at brown pants and shoes*
I certainly hope not.
A lot of it comes from my family, believe it or not. They aren’t super comfortable with the fact that I’m comfortable being the head of my household, and tend to view Mr Ghostbird with a great deal of suspicion, assuming he’s gay or a no good layabout or leeching off me or….the list goes on. The reality is that he’s a true gentleman, intelligent and well mannered and utterly kind, who finds more comfort in letting me run the show while he acts as my support system.
Here’s some beard brain bleach:
http://catbearding.com/
(I know I posted that before but it’s so darn cute!)
@ mastrechat
Scandalous; get to the countryside immediately!
I used to seriously lament the lack of choices when it comes to men’s clothing and style in general, but moving forward I’m making an effort to look at clothes in a non-gendered way (this goes hand in hand with starting to see myself in a non-gendered way).
I am so very lucky though, to not only live in a city where I can walk through one of the worst neighborhoods wearing a prom dress and fairy wings with little to no harassment, but to also have many people in my life that think it’s super awesome that I want to start wearing skirts and leggings and whatever else, and I get a fair amount of “oh! do you want to look through my closet for stuff to wear??” I was recently pleased to find that XL women’s t-shirts fit me perfectly. So many new options!
How boring it would be to look in your closet and think “Hmm, do I wanna wear brown, gray, or black today?” I don’t wear too many bright colors personally, but I’m glad the option is there if I wanted to!
Speaking of men not understanding the work a lot of women put into beauty standards, here’s a funny anecdote: A friend of mine was one chatting with a guy about men and women in general. The guy said something about how interesting it was that women naturally have those slender, arched eyebrows.
My friend: You know women wax their eyebrows to get them into that shape, right?
The guy: They do WHAT?!
@ Mrrex
“I like strong women” is code for “I hate strong women.”
Ooh, I’d have to take issue with that. I’ve avoided getting too embroiled in the general debate on this thread. Other contributors have made brilliant points so nothing to add to those and also, I’m new here so I don’t want to risk saying anything that can be misconstrued. However I definitely have to challenge that one (I know you’re quoting an article rather than it necessarily being your viewpoint).
Now of course I’m shallow enough that physical appearance can have *some* bearing in relation to the women I’m attracted to, personality and attitude is the deal breaker though.
I don’t want to get into TMI territory but it doesn’t matter how physically attractive a woman is, if she’s not confident, assertive and opinionated then it’s a complete turn off. (Of course there’s nothing wrong with women who are happy to not be like that; each to their own).
To me, a partnership is just that, it’s a relationship between equal partners; so I’m only attracted to women who can kick ass; physically and mentally.
I read (on tumblr, so take it with the correct amount of salt) that the reason men’s clothing is routinely baggy and drab stems from the homosexual panic of the 1920s. Makes sense if you’re homophobic and buy into Men Are Visual Creatures that you’d move away from anything that might show off your body, especially parts (legs, butt) that straight guys associate with sexiness. If you look at portraits of European leaders during the Renaissance to the 19th century, they’re in tights and often heeled shoes to show off their manly, virile calves. Ladies.
marinerachel:
This is why people stop commenting on this blog. It’s not David or the blog’s content. It’s the “No, YOU shut up” in the comment section.
It seems a little odd to post this a) about someone who only infrequently comments b) after you just said “blow it out your ass”.
That said, I realized a bit when I posted my comment and even more after seeing your response that “OT” was misleading and I wasn’t doing a good job of explaining what I meant. My emphasis inside my own head was on the “argument” part. People on here don’t seem to like heated arguments about things that are OT. But maybe I’m wrong to even include the “about things that are OT” caveat.
What I do stand by is that it’s OK for you to talk about how you want to lose weight and don’t think your body is attractive and don’t think anyone else would either, and it’s OK for other people to talk about how HAES sounds great, but when you say that something other people just said they like is bad, it’s setting up conditions that make it very easy to get into an argument about it, of the sort that I don’t think people on here would welcome. Especially when you have people who are attached to HAES or think it sounds like a good idea or who it was the entry point into feminism for. It’s yucking someone’s yum. So it was “bait” to me to get into an argument, but I’m not accusing you of intentionally trying to start an argument, just of not being on guard for ways that your comment would lead to an argument. I’m actually trying to keep the board from being too negative, too.
Also, I’ve had it up to here with people saying that HAES is anti-science. It’s anti-science to say that fat is not a risk factor for any diseases, and some HAES proponents do that–not the good ones like Linda Bacon or Michelle Allison or I could go on, and it seems like the more prominent proponents are a lot less likely to do that. It’s anti-science to say that we’ve got large weight loss maintenance all figured out, and some weight loss proponents do that–not the good ones like Yoni Freedhoff and Tara Parker-Pope and… I’m not as immersed in that world but you get the idea. What to do with that information, whether to try to maintain a large weight loss or to go the HAES route, IS NOT in any way, shape, or form a scientific question.
And now I’m already breaking my resolution not to get into a debate about it. I will try not to respond any further on that.
Alan Robertshaw:
I totally believe you when you say this, but I think that quote in particular is referring to a particular kind of man with a particular kind of fantasy woman (the “Cool Girl”), who has many of the outward signifiers of “strength” but never actually asserts herself in a meaningful way.
Again, I do not think any of this applies to you, but there are definitely men who say things like “I like strong women who kick ass and take names and are confident and assertive and opinionated”… and they do mean it, until all those opinions and that self-assertion and ass-kicking is turned on the man in question, at which point he’s not so fond of strong women. They want intelligence… as long as that in intelligence is never used to challenge his point-of-view. He wants razor-sharp wit… as long as it’s never directed at him. He wants her to be assertive in every aspect of her life… except their relationship.
This ties into the Strong Female Character trope in popular culture. If you haven’t encountered Sophia McDougall’s essay on this, please go make yourself a Hot Beverage of Choice and click on the link. As she describes Strong Female Characters: “Their strength lets them briefly dominate bystanders, but never dominate the plot.”
I feel that’s kind of what some men are looking for in real life.
toujoursgai, that is hilarious.
mrex, I wasn’t really into the book, but I loved the Cool Girl passage.
I thought of it specifically when I was talking with a friend at a party. Our male partners were with us and the general conversation had been about men’s sports (it’s always men’s sports), which I don’t follow at all. She asked me if I had received a catalog for a company we both shop from, and I said yes and told her I was excited about their spring clothes. Her husband turned to my partner, rolled his eyes and said sarcastically “Oh great. Let’s talk about shopping.”
I realized that in the past I would have been way too Cool Girl to talk about shopping and other boring girl stuff, but that night I just decided I’m over it. Think I’m a dumb girl obsessed with shopping? Fine. We don’t need to be friends.
@ tinyorc
Thank you for your comments, and that link in particular. I did indeed sit down with the hot beverage of *almost* my choice to read it {that ‘almost will become significant shortly 🙂 )
Loved the article; it resonated with some thoughts of my own. As you might have guessed I’m the sort of chap who does enjoy ‘badass chicks’ in fiction but I do give a wry chuckle when the woman who’s been happily battling bad guys (or good guys, bad girls are fun too) quite happily on her own suddenly seems to forget how to do that as soon as the male hero pops up and she needs rescuing. Ironically one of the few films I’ve seen that defies this tripe is “Fire & Ice”. The princess (who’s chosen attire for the wasteland she lives in is of course a dental floss bikini) would fit all the damsel in distress stereotypes but for the fact that by the time the hero arrives to rescue her she’s already sorted everything and escaped.
But anyway I digress. I know what you mean about the sort of guys who wants the intelligence, but only if it’s used to agree with him. Again though I find that a turn off. I like debate and (rational) argument. That’s one of the reasons I like this site. I’m not the world’s best pro feminist but I love the way the contributors toy with the trolls. It would be easy, and no doubt tempting to just shout “you misogynist wanker” at some of the things here, but it’s brilliant to see women just parry with these guys. If I was the sort of person who said things like “Ha, pwned!” I would (but I’m not, so I won’t).
It’s possibly significant that all my relationships with women have been with ones who have strong opinions that I don’t necessarily share. My SO (who describes herself as my “future ex wife”, take from that what you will) is almost the polar opposite of me in many areas, especially politics and it’s the sparring that we love. I can’t think of anything more boring than being with someone who agrees with you on everything. Whether that’s because they genuinely do or, much much worse, because they just go along with what you think.
We do of course have some things in common. We’re both extremely ‘liberal’ in the US sense (even though we’re Brits) on social issues but on matters where there is room for reasonable people to disagree (which of course injustice isn’t one) we almost invariably have opposing viewpoints. Again at the risk of TMI I think we both enjoy the frisson that gives. Sometimes of course we do persuade one another to a different view which brings me back to the ‘hot beverage’ point.
My SO is a hardcore vegan whereas it’s pretty much only social mores and lack of recipes that keeps me away from cannibalism. She does try everything on behalf of the animals though, I’ll give her that. (Her plaintive “Please stop eating piggies” note nearly had me). Currently I am on a veggie diet, but that’s just for my own reasons, I made that very clear.
She did however finally persuade me about the cruelties of modern dairy farming (mainly by referencing things I saw when living on a dairy farm) so I am now ‘enjoying’ a coffee with soya milk. 🙂
Teal Deer version, “thanks for the link, your comments good.”
@Alan Robertshaw ” Ironically one of the few films I’ve seen that defies this tripe is “Fire & Ice”. The princess (who’s chosen attire for the wasteland she lives in is of course a dental floss bikini) would fit all the damsel in distress stereotypes but for the fact that by the time the hero arrives to rescue her she’s already sorted everything and escaped.”
I remember I got the feeling when watching that film that Bakshi really wanted to just animate the princess nude but wasn’t allowed to.
@tinyorc – that article highlights a huge reason why I’m so nervous about the live-action version of Ghost in the Shell. Kusanagi didn’t have to punch the men under her command to gain their respect in the animated movies or the series. She has the rank of Major and they’re all military/police officers, they fall in line because that’s what you do in those organisations. *And* not only does she not reciprocate Batou’s gruff, manly crush on her, it’s implied in the series that she doesn’t like men at all. Hollywood are going to shove a romance (or at least a sex scene) in there and have her kick some doofus in the groin to prove how tough she is.
@Cyberwulf
I loved how in Stand Alone Complex, the Major got Batou to punch *himself* in the face.
@GhostBird and even that’s in a playful context. They’ve known each other for a long time and nobody’s mad or seriously out to prove anything. Idk if you’ve seen Solid State Society but I love the part at the very beginning where Batou doesn’t know what to do with himself because the Major’s not around. He has it so bad for her, and yet he knows it’s his issue and never expects/demands anything from her in that regard. I can only shudder at what Hollywood will do with that.
@Alan Robertshaw: That description of your relationship reminds me of a song by Del Rey and the Yes Yes Boys, called “Troublemaker”. At one time it was online on their website as a free sample, but looks like both it and the website (and probably the band, though not the individual performers) are gone now, alas.
This line in particular:
“Most people just go along/They nod their heads while they’re thinking you’re wrong/This fellow sure ain’t that way/If he thinks you’re wrong he’s sure to say”
Meant to say earlier: I agree with all of David’s comment. And I think Leela et al are right that this is pressing on a lot of different people’s sore spots, probably at least one per commenter. Even Paul. (I’m still glad he’s gone, though.)
@tinyorc:
‘These days, whenever a man tells me that he prefers “natural beauty”, I hear “I would prefer if you could just tumble out of bed looking like a photoshopped supermodel, because watching you faff around with mascara and hair treatments and control tights kind of ruins the illusion for me.”’
This is the funniest — and truest (?) — thing I’ve read today. Thank you, tinyorc, for making my day.
OK, so I’m a survivor of verbal abuse and I agree that it’s terrible, but your decision to frame it specifically as something women do to men sounds like something Paul Elam would write. There’s a whole section of MRM philosophy dedicated to proving that women’s “nagging” is the female equivalent of men’s hitting and thus it’s just as bad as and probably the cause of the latter. So yeah, this comment is fucking gross.
@tinyorc:
I’m a little like the customer in your story, I’d love to see more interesting clothes for men but I feel a little self-conscious wearing them if they’re a bit too much. And yet I still manage to be more flamboyant than most guys I know. The guys dress code is very restrictive and dull. “You know who else wears interesting clothes? Elton John” (I’ve never heard this said, I’m just rushing to the conclusion of some hypothetical comment thread about it).
@Emmy Rae:
🙁
As someone that’s never been into sports (except a brief stint playing roller derby) I can appreciate that discussion of sports is not in any way superior to discussion of shopping. Especially when your gender is excluded from both the discussion and the sport itself.