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Is Men's Rights hate site A Voice for Men melting down before our eyes?

Look what you've done! I'm melting! Melting!
Look what you’ve done! I’m melting! Melting!

Is AVFM, the hate site we all love to hate, melting down before our eyes? Consider.

1) Men Going Their Own Way are Going Their Own Way, Far Away, From Paul Elam

AVFM’s head cheese Paul Elam has long fantasized about becoming King of the MGTOWs, which would help him build up his Flying Monkey army and turn Men Going Their Own Way into Money Going Into Paul Elam’s Pockets. In doing so, he seems to have alienated virtually all of those who consider themselves MGTOWs.

That hasn’t stopped him from trying to annex MGTOWland, or reveling in the setbacks of MGTOWers who haven’t pledged their love to Paul. The AVFM/MGTOW war has even had its own “Mission Accomplished” moment: a 2013 post by Elam’s partner-in-MGTOW Peter Wright declaring that “AVfM is indisputably MGTOW-central.”

The current round in the ongoing AVFM/MGTOW slapfight started with the publication of an e-book on MGTOW by Elam and Wright that was not exactlly well-received by MGTOWers. It didn’t help that the misogynistic and astoundingly un-self-aware Elam made a video labeling his MGTOW enemies misogynistic “PigTOWs.” I mean, they are misogynistic PigTOWs, but insulting those you hope to turn into supporters isn’t exactly a great PR move.

MGTOWers are also angry that Elam has promoted a stay-at-home mother, the woman who calls herself “Janet Bloomfield” and “Judgy Bitch,” into AVFM’s main PR person. Former AVFMers John “The Other” Hembling and Diana Davison are now enthusiastically supporting the anti-Elam MGTOW army, and the online sniping between AVFM and its enemies has reached a new low, with AVFMers apparently passing around nude pictures of Davison and Elam describing Hembling, his former number two at AVFM, as

the one guy at AVFM who was one blowjob away from turning mangina when the Queen of Auschwitz showed up to swallow.

Yeah, I’m not sure why Elam is calling Davison “the Queen of Auschwitz” either — because she’s skinny? — but I don’t think it’s meant as a compliment.

Apparently, the things MGTOWers and AVFMers are saying about each other in private are even worse, though I can scarcely imagine how. As AVFM ally Karen “GirlWritesWhat” Straughan said in a YouTube comment of her own,

There are things going on in private chats and other places outside the public eye that would make you puke.

Yikes.

2) AVFM is alienating former supporters — and may even be driving off one of the biggest celebrities of the Men’s Rights movement, the aforementioned Karen “GirlWritesWhat.”

The latest Men’s Rightser to desert AVFM? YouTuber Natasha Douglas (a.k.a. Nurdy Dee, a.k.a. Nurdy Dancing), who says she’s gotten tired of the giant “clusterfuck” that AVFM has become. While she’s not exactly a major figure in the Men’s Rights Movement, AVFM has quietly moved a rather appalling video of hers, in which she argues that calling a man a misogynist is the equivalent of calling someone the n-word, off of its featured spot on AVFM’s front page, where it had been perched for what seemed like forever.

More significantly, Karen “GirlWritesWhat” Straughan, AVFM’s star “Honey Badger,” has been offering some rather blunt critiques of Elam et al, and suggesting that she could easily walk away from the site. GWW, a popular YouTube blabber with more than 91,000 subscribers, noted in one Youtube comment (to the video here) that she’s become “sick to death of the poo-flinging going on between AVFM and MGTOW.”

While still publicly a supporter of AVFM, she’s talking a lot like someone with one foot out the door:

I’m still on the masthead, as far as I know, but I don’t do a whole lot for AVFM, and never have. I’m not even a member of their forums. I have no editorial control. I get no money from it. I haven’t contributed an article in ages, and anything of mine on the site is essentially grabbed from my YT channel or my blog. My opinions are my own. I’m willing to bet that I could cut them loose without suffering any real loss.

Why don’t I? Because my name can help them. …

[P]lease don’t think I answer to AVFM, that I care about what AVFM thinks of me, or that AVFM tells me what to do. They don’t. They could all drop dead tomorrow and I’d keep doing what I’m doing.

3) Money troubles: AVFM’s donors seem ever more reluctant to keep sending money to a site that seems incapable of accomplish much of anything beyond providing a platform for a bunch of misogynistic malcontents to shout into the wind.

This may be the real killer. AVFM appears to be having more and more trouble raising the exorbitant amounts of money that Elam claims the site needs to operate, and his fundraising appeals are growing ever more desperate.

At the moment they’re halfway through a two-week long (!!) fund drive, and their little fundraising thermometer is indicating some pretty chilly air:

thermometer

The fact that they are even running a fund drive with such an, er, ambitious goal is a sign that AVFM’s “new approach” to financing its existence is failing miserably.

In January, after what seems to have been the site’s most difficult fundraiser yet, Elam told his readers that “we need a way to finance our move ahead without coming to you every three months and putting it all on your shoulders,” promising his long-suffering donors “a drastic decrease quarterly in fundraising goals.”

His latest quarterly fundraising goal? Exactly the same as his last one.

Apparently Elam’s other projected “revenue streams” — advertising, his “publishing house,” “e-stores,” and even web hosting services — have not even amounted to a little trickle.

I am shocked — shocked! — that AVFM’s little “publishing house” has not managed to make millions off of two collections of century-old public domain writings by anti-suffrage socialist E. Belfort Bax and a book about MGTOW that virtually everyone in that little community hates.

In his current fundraising appeal, Elam explains that he’s trying to turn AVFM into a for-profit LLC, claiming that

the expense of pulling this together was considerable, given the rates of attorneys and CPAs. And that is not even close to all of the expenses.

For our upcoming publishing house, Zeta Press, we have had to engage attorneys to develop editor’s and author’s contracts and invest in the web development and ecommerce necessary to make that a reality.

How much does it cost to prepare an author contract for a terrible e-book that will sell 8 copies?

In his January post, Elam also suggested that the site’s upcoming conference could make some sweet, sweet cash. Today, he’s singing a rather different tune, declaring that planning for the conference has been

so financially consuming that the LLC’s needs preclude me from AVFM personal income for the foreseeable future. That means I have to work at something else for personal income.

To accomplish this I will be offering online coaching services to men only for a limited amount of hours a week in order to keep food on the table.

Yes, really. I suggest that we start calling him “Coach.”

I will be including one hour per week of pro bono work for those who cannot pay.

What a generous soul! And I will match his offer: Give me $20,000 a quarter and I’ll talk to someone for an hour for free.

In any case, the future of AVFM isn’t looking too bright at the moment. Change “countdown” to “meltdown,” and “Venus” to “Uranus” in the following song and you have the perfect theme song for AVFM today.

I’m not sure why this video is labeled “the worst cover ever” of “The Final Countdown,” as it is clearly the BEST.

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Hambeast, Social Justice Hoo-Ha Glitterer
Hambeast, Social Justice Hoo-Ha Glitterer
9 years ago

Does anybody else always read “Redpillian” as “Reptilian”?

Constantly. But for some reason, it’s always accompanied by a mental image of a tiny, red alligator beside a glass of water.

That Buzzfeed article was quite the cherry-picked evopsych assfax hit piece, though, wasn’t it?

Robert
Robert
9 years ago

Freemage – good point. It’s as if the ‘moderate’ Southern whites complained (during the 1950s and ’60s) “Why doesn’t the Civil Rights movement do anything for *us*?!” I can’t imagine that there would not be DV shelters for men if enough men were willing to do what women did decades ago. It’s not as if Congress and the rest of the government suddenly woke up and said, “Women need Title IX! Let’s give it to them.”

Binjabreel
Binjabreel
9 years ago

*points at HappilySingle, laughs derisively.*

Maybe try actually talking to a real damn feminist.

weirwoodtreehugger
9 years ago

Aww. We got a new widdle troll.

Who exactly is he quoting there. I sure haven’t seen anything like that here.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

“teaching other men to yell at women on the internet appears to be a good fall back”
@Viscria Yeah there are some douchy guys that are into that but honestly feminists have absolutely no high ground on this matter considering how they behave in public.

Viscria?

Anyway I was speaking specifically about Paul Elam and his “coaching” plans, so I’m not sure what your comment about all men generally has to do with my own.

tealily
tealily
9 years ago

I’ve been thinking the MRAs are in trouble ever since last year’s clusterfuck conference they tried so hard to label a success.

They will never get anywhere for two reasons: 1) The bottom line is that they are hateful and vengeful people. Those types never can go long without turning on each other regardless of their mutual hate/disrespect of women because it’s their own shitty personalities that basically hate everyone. Getting along with others is a fine line that is constantly crossed because of their black and white extremist type of thinking. 2) They don’t DO anything other than try and cause other people grief. Eventually most people, and I think we’ve already crossed that tipping point, start getting the clue that THEY are the problem. There is no constructive change they are seeking; only to require over half the population to deny their own needs, happiness and freedom to cater to the MRA agenda. It will never happen.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

Also, I’m not sure if this was clear, but I don’t actually expect that Elam will be able to make a good living by hosting 1-on-1 “b*tches, amirite?” sessions. I think perhaps he would be better served by finding work that doesn’t have anything to do with hating women.

Spindrift
Spindrift
9 years ago

I don’t like the idea of Elam going back to being a substance abuse counselor, isn’t that what he claims he used to do? Seem to remember reading something like that…

Kestrel
Kestrel
9 years ago

@HappilySingle – How feminists behave in public? For me, it would depend on how I was approached. If you start by telling me I am a slutty manipulative gold digging female, I would not expect a positive response.

Also, who is telling you feminists don’t want men around? I would not say I need a man but I love my husband very much. I also have a wonderful father and an amazing stepfather who treats me like I am his flesh and blood daughter. I have 3 nephews who are wonderful. Oh, and one godson who is the cutest little boy. He teaches me how to play with Rescuebots. I do NOT hate men. Most men are incredible. Some are misogynists and those I do not have an respect for. I believe respect goes both ways.

Vanir (@Vanir85)
9 years ago

Regarding the BuzzFeeds article, http://www.buzzfeed.com/janetb45f4c43c5/five-stupid-clichas-about-women-that-are-mostly-1fnnk

There seems to be an influx of new accounts upvoting JudgyBitch’es article. Apparantly, BuzzFeed suddenly got interesting for the woman haters club. Maybe they’re trying to claim new ground, now that the old treehouse is rotting?

M.
M.
9 years ago

I wonder how trolly knows who’s a feminist and who’s not when he walks past them in public. Radar? Telepathy? Information being fed through an earpiece? His ass?

@Vanir

Doesn’t JB have a history of making socks to like/favourite/upvote herself? Or am I confusing her for every other MRA ever?

Shaenon
9 years ago

@ Sadie G

Ideally, they would be broke because they already sent all their money to Paul Elam and have been living off ramen to support the cause.

Bina
9 years ago

but honestly feminists have absolutely no high ground on this matter considering how they behave in public. Screaming over other people to silence them is no way to make a point. A casual glance at Twitter and Tumblr also has a lot of feminists that would rather insult and emotionally abuse people than make reasoned and convincing arguments.

It is no wonder some men have chosen to go MGTOW and many don’t want anything to do with feminists or women anymore. That is the message we have been sent LOUDLY. “We don’t need or want you men. We hate you and you are despicable for the crime of the sin of being born male.” is what has been expressed openly and often and so we have taken our ball and gone home.

If that’s what you’re hearing, you need to clean the wax out of your ears and see an audiologist, because that there ain’t normal, son.

And if that doesn’t work, you can go jump into a vat full of Legos. Coming to a feminist site to spit this vicious crap at us isn’t taking your ball and going home, it’s going out and making a deliberate ass of yourself.

Also, nice ableism with the “going mental” bit. No wonder the ladies don’t like you.

Viscaria
Viscaria
9 years ago

I kind of wonder what HappilySingle means when he talks about the ball that MGTOWs are taking home. Is it all of industry?

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
9 years ago

It is no wonder some men have chosen to go MGTOW and many don’t want anything to do with feminists or women anymore. That is the message we have been sent LOUDLY. “We don’t need or want you men. We hate you and you are despicable for the crime of the sin of being born male.” is what has been expressed openly and often and so we have taken our ball and gone home.

Man here. When I was suicidal, it was my feminist philosophy professor who took time out of her work and family and talked to me about it. When people talk shit about feminists, I compare what they say to the feminists I actually know. It’s like they’re describing mythological monsters or something; it just doesn’t have any basis in reality at all.

I say this is the most genuine and non-hostile way possible: you don’t know anything about feminism. Really. The people you think you hate don’t exist.

Bina
9 years ago

I think it’s the ball he keeps trying to bean feminists with. Did no one teach him any playground manners as a kid?

Robert
Robert
9 years ago

Zoon, I think that idea terrifies them. If the enemy they’ve dedicated their lives to hating and fearing does not actually exist, admitting that to themselves would destroy their entire hateful/fearful gestalt. That would mean simultaneously realizing that they’d been wrong AND assimilating a new and unfamiliar worldview. Challenging, it is.

It can be done, of course, but you have to want to.

Jimmy
Jimmy
9 years ago

So ladies, I read somewhere (wish I remembered where, it would be better if I could clearly back this up) that when “that time of the month” happens, estrogen levels are reduced, so testosterone is the hormone that comes to the forefront. Therefore, if men have any problem with the way women behave at that time, bazinga, that’s what women put up with, from men, ALL the time.

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

lith | March 30, 2015 at 6:34 am
@Paradoxical Intention:

I know this is an entirely different thread but apparently I missed a lot of exciting troll manouvers* a few days ago. Just wanted to say well done on that really awesome comment with all the links and the proof, nice work.

*I can never spell this.

http://media.tumblr.com/49f1c92a0b9457918e87f6d308351dd5/tumblr_inline_mgr5ygRavQ1qcqwuv.gif

Aw, bless your face.

HappilySingle | March 30, 2015 at 9:17 am
Yeah there are some douchy guys that are into that but honestly feminists have absolutely no high ground on this matter considering how they behave in public.

Orly? Please provide some citations, because I would like to see this. Our Femicommunazi Overlord Katie would have a chuckle at it, I’m sure.

Screaming over other people to silence them is no way to make a point.

You mean like how other groups like to scream over us so we can’t be heard? How some groups constantly harass us and antagonize us?

Nope, it’s a classic case of “Everything we do is right, everything you do (especially if it’s the same thing we’re doing) is wrong.”

A casual glance at Twitter and Tumblr also has a lot of feminists that would rather insult and emotionally abuse people than make reasoned and convincing arguments.

Have you heard of GamerGate, by any chance? You know, the group dedicated to “Ethics in Games Journalism”, by which they mean harassing feminists and women who disagree with them or have any sort of opinion that doesn’t align with their cishet white dudebro centric attitudes in the gaming industry. They mostly operate through Twitter.

Also, yeah, sometimes we get pissy when our existences are questioned on a regular basis and we’re told we’re not allowed to live without being harassed or raped or beaten by assholes like you, and sometimes in very disrespectful terms. It’s easy for men to come in and say “Stop being so emotional about it! No one will take you seriously if you’re emotional about it!” when one, they’re taught that emotions = feminine = bad, and two it’s almost never their lives on the line when this is being discussed.

So sorry we’re not going to keep our heads when we’re insulted, demeaned, and never taken seriously while expected to still smile and be nice and clap like a seal on command. My existence and my right to exist without being harassed, assaulted, raped, or without dealing with your bullshit shouldn’t be up for debate. I am a human being, and I have the right to live my life in safety and comfort. So sorry this upsets you and your peen.

The thing is, we have plenty of “reasoned and convincing arguments”. The problems are one, we hate having to repeat ourselves so. Fucking. Often. Every asshat with a chip on his shoulder comes in here demanding we “convince” them that we’re right, and there’s a fuckin’ lot of ya. It gets tiresome to have to repeat our stances on the INTERNET, where there’s information a plenty and Google to guide you.

In addition, we don’t debate on demand. You can’t snap your fingers and expect us to jump for you, and hand you all the proof you want. We come here to laugh and unwind and debate amongst ourselves not to “prove” anything. There are plenty of feminists out there dedicated to teaching asshats like you and to answer all your snarky little questions. Go ask them instead of demanding that other feminists (who never said that they wanted to debate anything or teach anything) take time out of their days to set you right.

If you’d like to know more about this, read this article on why “Go Google It!” is a common response.

And two, you already have it in your head that we’re full of shit and you’re not willing to listen to us, so why even fucking bother with you? Get the fuck out.

It is no wonder some men have chosen to go MGTOW and many don’t want anything to do with feminists or women anymore.

Good, we don’t want anything to do with men who think that women should have to put up with their misogynistic bullshit anyways.

That is the message we have been sent LOUDLY. “We don’t need or want you men. We hate you and you are despicable for the crime of the sin of being born male.” is what has been expressed openly and often and so we have taken our ball and gone home.

“Take my ball and go home” = Go to a feminist blog to make a sorry attempt to snark at the mean ol’ feeeemales who dared to not do as I demand of them.

I’m sorry, did you not read who the owner is for this blog? Were you not aware that some regular feminists on this site are *gasp* male? And we feeemales are actually quite fond of them, and some of us feeemales are married to/dating/otherwise attached or attracted to them?

Nah, you’d rather just believe your strawman argument that we all hate men, and think being born male is somehow an “unforgivable sin” in our eyes.

Where you get it twisted is that we don’t think being born male is the problem. We think that toxic masculinity is the problem. The idea that being male = bottling up your emotions, violence, dominating everything and everyone, and everything feminine is icky and has cooties.

It’s not the idea that you’re male (via either gender or sex), it’s the ideas you associate with being male. That’s what we take issue with.

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

Oh, I almost forgot HappilySingle: What makes you think we care so much about you taking your ball and going home? There are plenty of other people (of all genders!) out there with balls who are willing to play. What makes your ball so fucking special?

TomBcat
9 years ago

So sorry we’re not going to keep our heads when we’re insulted, demeaned, and never taken seriously while expected to still smile and be nice and clap like a seal on command.

Damn straight. That’s what the seal of approval is for.

brooked
brooked
9 years ago

It is no wonder some men have chosen to go MGTOW and many don’t want anything to do with feminists or women anymore. That is the message we have been sent LOUDLY. “We don’t need or want you men. We hate you and you are despicable for the crime of the sin of being born male.” is what has been expressed openly and often and so we have taken our ball and gone home.

I love MGTOWs, every single one’s “own way” involves caterwauling at women on the internet, the very women they allegedly want nothing to do with. You’re here so you clearly haven’t really gone anywhere fella.

Also, all those straw feminists are a fire hazard.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
9 years ago

To be totally fair, there may well be MGTOWs who actually *do* go their own way. We wouldn’t ever hear of them.

The ones we hear from are definitionally the ones who aren’t, in fact, GTOW.

Paradoxical Intention
9 years ago

@Jarnsaxa: That’s actually an excellent point.

Though, I wonder if they went their own way from the whole movement as well, maybe popping on the internet to enjoy their hobbies and the like rather than indulging the MGTOW movement.

lith
lith
9 years ago

@Viscaria:

I kind of wonder what HappilySingle means when he talks about the ball that MGTOWs are taking home. Is it all of industry?

That can’t be it, surely they keep that locked in a closet that most men and a select few women have the keys to?

@Jarnsaxa:

To be totally fair, there may well be MGTOWs who actually *do* go their own way. We wouldn’t ever hear of them.

Entirely true. Though if we ignore the ones we don’t hear about that means that literally 100% of MGTOW actually don’t and hang around harassing women for ‘the crime of being female’ (and not having relationships that are entirely based around the man’s wishes). Though it’s literally hours since I’ve seen someone utterly dismiss rape statistics based on one counter-example so perhaps that’s not in fashion any more.

@HappilySingle:

Seriously, everyone has angst around relationships. They take effort and commitment, and they’re far more likely to work if both sides treat the other with respect. This doesn’t mean the man becomes a house husband while the woman works, nor vice versa. It doesn’t mean the woman is in charge of the finances, nor the man. It doesn’t mean one makes all of the decisions and the other is submissive.
It can in fact mean all of these things and more in any combination, it just requires that each is happy with the situation – and there are so many ways that can be achieved. But it does require effort and commitment. If you want women to like you, try looking at what about you might put them off and try to change it – you don’t have to be a completely different person, just knock off the sharp edges. I don’t say this as dating advice, I say this in the hopes of improving the lives of everyone everywhere, including your own.