The Cuckunist Manifesto

I say all of this as a man in his 30’s who is short, bald and has a skin condition on his face. Trust me when i say that life without ever having a significant other can lead to some dark thoughts and lot’s of jealousy of others. just because the guy is a misguided asshole doesn’t mean that his toxic personality is the only reason he can’t get a date. The world is shallower than most like to admit.

@UnattractiveMale, I don’t expect you’ll be back but I’m going to repeat something I posted in a similar thread. Mainly because this attitude is really pissing me off. Not because unattractive people don’t exist – I get it, some people are more or less physically attractive than others. It’s just I haven’t seen this play out in real life the way some people say it does.

A client of mine is a short, balding man with no arms. He dated, got married and has kids. Really happy guy. Has a great attitude and a lot of interests he has pursued all his life, which have turned into an amazing career.

My dad is short, has glasses, has been bald since his early 20’s, and has had a prosthetic hand since his early 20’s. My mum married him (she was a model at the time, and gorgeous) because she fell for his sense of humour, his kindness – a lot of things about him.

One of my friends is morbidly obese, and his wife freakin’ adores him, as do most people because he is awesome and funny and generous and fun to be around.

Another friend of mine, who is very attractive, has a definite ‘type’ she is attracted to: slightly chubby bald guys with a quirky sense of humour.

You’re short, bald and have a skin condition on your face. There’s a hell of a lot more to you than that, I’m sure. And yes, looks do matter – it’s just that they matter in varying degrees to different people. Don’t decide that the way you look means you’re going to be lonely forever. You’ll have a less easy time than a “Chad”, sure, but it isn’t a death sentence. Attitude matters.

Good day @Tracy While I appreciate you giving positive examples of people who aren’t conventionally attractive achieving life goals, I think you’re missing my point.

I was commenting on the spirit of the previous post which seemed to me to imply that attitude and personality were the primary cause of the guy in the article’s social inadequacies. I was pointing out that being less attractive or being physically unimpressive does affect people (not just men as i wrote previously). It can lead to being less fulfilled and sometimes, in regards to the guy in the article, can lead to destructive social tendencies.

i want people to understand that when using words like ‘decide’ you put the agency on me. Implying that i and others like me somehow are responsible for other people’s attitudes. There are many privileges in this world, as a straight white male i enjoy quite a few, but being conventionally attractive also brings with it a lot of privilege too, that i don’t enjoy.

That I pointed this out ‘pisses’ you off does not change reality. All the good examples you provide do not take away the power of my experience or the guy in the article’s experience.

What I would like is to not ignore the reality of the situation. Instead, as I said before, explain to these angry guys that the current system does them no favours. A society with more compassion and less emphasis on hyper masculinity would benefit them greatly.

I appreciate that you took the time to respond to me though.

On a side note I never used the word ‘chad’ it sounds beyond stupid lol

Sigh. Not having women falling all over you isn’t oppression. Sure, conventionally attractive people get some perks in life. That does not mean we should try and feel the pain of men who literally want to kill us for not giving them endless blow jobs.

Unattractive Male’s comments are the very embodiment of “men are afraid women are going to laugh at them, women are afraid men are going to kill them.” What’s worse is that he and so many other men seem to think that the former fear is more deserving of sympathy and understanding than the latter.

Never mind that many of the women who commented in this thread are currently or formerly not conventionally attractive and have to live with the much harsher penalties women face for not meeting beauty standards. Never mind that if we are conventionally attractive, we’re treated like bimbos and sex objects who couldn’t possibly be intelligent or have earned any accomplishment. Never mind that on top of the beauty minefield that women must navigate, we also have to deal with rape culture, threats to reproductive rights and so on.

You’re not going to find many arguments from feminists that our culture should continue to place great importance on arbitrary and rigid standards of beauty. In fact, we’ve been arguing against that all along. Something men would realize if they actually listened to what women said instead of just treating us like sex objects or inscrutable alien creatures. But you’re also not going to find us sympathetic to the idea that we should make whether or not an angry misogynist gets a date our top priority.

End rant that nobody will even read.

@Tracy: Your post made me think of this:

UnattractiveMale | April 12, 2015 at 12:40 pm
@Tracy I suppose it comes down to this, What would you do with guys like the one in the article?

Ignore them? I doubt they’ll go away.

Berate them? They already believe negative attention is the only attention they’ll receive.

Or as I do, engage with them. You may never convince the guy in the article but you may get to someone else who is not as far gone, who happens to be following the discussion.

Expecting us to engage with them, despite the fact that they already believe they are entitled to our time, attention, and patience? No thanks.

Some of us aren’t up for debating our existence or bodily autonomy to people who won’t listen and brush us off all day, ‘erry day. Some of us just want to live.

Some of us might want to engage, but expecting all of us to play nice is bullshit.

How some one feels may sometimes be disproportionate to what others go through but that doesn’t change how they feel.

No one said otherwise?

In fact, we have to make that argument a LOT against people who march in here and demand we go do something “in the Middle East” because we “Western Women” have it so much better than they do.

Oppression is not a game, there are no winners, only losers.

Feminists do recognize that men have their fair share of problems under the patriarchy. We understand that there’s tons of issues with things like toxic masculinity, non-visibility of male rape victims, the disproportionate amount of black men prosecuted in our court systems, the non-acceptance of transmen as men, and the pressures to be straight and fuck a lot of women (because men’s only worth is how many women they’ve banged, according to society).

No one said these weren’t important. The problem is that we get told to drop all of our issues that we’re focusing on to fix these problems by MRAs, Incels, and the like, and the way they want it “fixed” will only screw us over.

If we are talking oppression you may have read ‘straight white male’ and jumped to wrong conclusions. I am a minority where I live and I personally have lived through oppression ( though thankfully things are not as bad now) I am well aware of how a system can bet set against a particular group. So I am not arguing from a mindset that has never experienced ‘true’ oppression. I do know the difference between not having privilege and oppression though.

I hate to break this to you, but being a ‘straight white male’ most anywhere in the world makes you immediately not a minority (especially if you live in the States or in the UK). You may live in an area with fewer ‘straight white males’ than usual, but trust me, the rest of the world caters to you still. You still have privilege, regardless of how you’re treated as a ‘minority’ where you live.

And no, you haven’t ‘lived through oppression’. You’re a straight, white male. No oppression there. At all. People may have treated you badly, and they may have said things that hurt your feelings, but you aren’t oppressed, nor have you ever been, because you’re a straight white male. The system in place is there to serve you, regardless of where you live.

There is no such thing as “reverse racism”, there’s no such thing as “hetrophobia”, and there’s no such thing as “reverse sexism”. Take it from a queer white cis female.

Engage with incels? No. Fuck that. I don’t feel bad for them at all. I have had a lifetime of body image issues and social awkwardness. Somehow, I manage to not be happy when men are murdered. Or when women who I perceive as more fortunate than I murdered. Not because I’m such a sweet and wonderful person. But because that’s a pretty minimum standard of human decency. These guys have given me no reason to think they are capable of redemption. If they are, it’s not going to be with me holding their hands.

It’s reprehensible to expect it from the targets of their hate.

“People hurt and the hurt makes them do bad things.”

That is such a tired excuse for this shit. You know what? Most people get hurt some time in their lives. Many people get very hurt. Quite a few people go through such trauma they will never quite feel whole or healed. Yet the vast majority of these people don’t go on to hurt and hate anyone else, especially huge groups of people. People who hurt and hate people don’t get to use ‘well someone hurt and hated me’ as an excuse for hating and hurting others.

UnattractiveMale | April 13, 2015 at 12:23 am
@paradoxical intention Where do I start, I find myself staring in disbelief at the screen… The people who where oppressing my people where also white. I grew up in a state designed to stop my people getting power. Both sides of the conflict are white.

‘and no, you haven’t ‘lived through oppression”

A member of my family is dead because of this conflict. I have had a police officer spit in my face during a peaceful protest to get equal rights for my people when i was younger. I was called vermin by a charming old lady for no reason other than I was on the wrong side of the conflict. I have had a knife held to my face because i was walking in the wrong part of town. I could go on about my personal experiences but more importantly I’ve seen financial support taken from my town and given to the less populace neighbouring town. That town just happens to be filled with the people from the ruling side of the conflict. They are very rich and very white.

Please don’t make the assumption i know nothing about oppression because I’m straight and white.

How about you define “my people” beyond “straight, white males” (you’ve been awfully vague so far so forgive me if I’m a little more leery because of that) before we start talking about “but I’m so oppressed!”. But, if this is true (and it’s on the internet and coming from someone I don’t trust, so I’m taking it with way more than just a single grain of salt), my point still stands: You haven’t lived through oppression. I’m sorry if a member of your family is dead, but again: Not oppression. Conflict. Two different words. And words mean things.

But, let’s play Devil’s Advocate and say that what you’re going through is actually oppression. That doesn’t mean that you understand every single kind of oppression now, does it?

You don’t have the lived experience of a woman, a queer person, a trans person (or a person of any other non-binary gender), or a person of color. So, you can’t know what that exact kind of oppression is like because, you said it yourself, you are a “straight white male”.

So, when you come and talk to someone who is oppressed in ways you are not (and even in ways that give you privilege over them) and tell them you expect them to be nice to other people who harass them and want them either dead or forced into prostitution for the sake of entitled white males, you still come off looking very much like an asshole.

And pulling the “But I’m so oppressed too, u guiz!” card doesn’t make you instantly look better. It only makes you more of an asshole because you’re siding with those you share privilege with against other oppressed people.

It’s like when gay cis men are sexist against women or transpeople. They end up being jerks because they’re siding with cis men against people who are less oppressed than they are, despite the fact they still might have some overlap in oppressed groups.

Either way, you can still go swim in an ocean of knock-off Legos friendo.

@Troll

It’s pretty obvious that they meant you haven’t lived through oppression for being a straight white male, not for any other potential unrelated reason.

I’m pretty sure he’s alluding to The Troubles. Which is way more original than the old standby of “I’m totally a black woman! #NotYourShield #GamerGate,” I’ll give him that.

@M. yeah, I thought maybe he was talking about Northern Ireland too. Personally I chose to take his word for it, though, because it’s irrelevant to the original point, which was that being an unattractive male isn’t oppression.

Yes I’m an Irish Nationalist from Northern Ireland, (tried to be vague because I didn’t want personal politics to get involved) the oppression preceded the conflict. And yes I did loose a close family member because of that time.

Ok ok to save everyone the hassle of rereading my posts i’ll copy what i said here.

‘ I do know the difference between not having privilege and oppression ‘

I thought i had clearly expressed that i didn’t consider myself oppressed because of my looks but it appears I didn’t make that clear enough. I DO NOT consider myself oppressed because of my looks. Though i do find my looks affect my overall quality of life.

It was @weirwoodtreehugger who implied I thought i was oppressed. I stated that I had experienced real oppression to emphasize that I actually knew the difference.

@suffrajitsu I have more than once said that feeling alienated from society because of looks is not a male only issue. I have also never denied that being a straight white male comes with privileges. I have even conceded that my feelings and those of these Incels (their words not mine) are ‘disproportionate’ to reality.

@paradoxical ‘You don’t have the lived experience of a woman, a queer person, a trans person (or a person of any other non-binary gender), or a person of color. So, you can’t know what that exact kind of oppression is like because, you said it yourself, you are a “straight white male”.’

I don’t get your point. I’m not a gay person but I have been surrounded by a gang of people brandishing knives intent on doing me harm because of how i was born, not because of a choice I made. I’m sure there a people of the LGBT community who I could empathise with in that regard. I would completely disagree that I would know nothing of the experience of a person of colour. Being treated like a criminal on several occasions despite committing no crime would be just the start of it.

@weirwoodtreehugger Again I am trying to say that the experience of living in a looks obsessed world while not conforming to those standards is a universal problem. Not just manpain. That a small subsection of the male side has taken this experience and decide to poison the well does not make the experience any less real.

but i’ll ask again because i genuinely want to know the groups answer. What would you do with these guys? just let them fester and infect other people?

And I honestly do realise that asking to engage these men on an emotional level is asking a lot. i know they say and do horrible things and that some don’t want to change but can we afford to leave them to their own devices?