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The Cuckunist Manifesto

A spectre is haunting sluts: The spectre of Chad
A spectre is haunting sluts: The spectre of Chad

This is the final day of the We Hunted the Mammoth Pledge Drive. If you haven’t already, please consider donating through the PayPal button below. (The PayPal page will say you are donating to Man Boobz.) Thanks!

Sometimes dudes stop by this blog and drop entire manifestos in the comments. I thought I’d share this one with you all. I’ve highlighted some of the best bits.

Puahater/sluthater here to shake up this echo chamber. Look David, as an obese unattractive guy, why do you devote your life’s work to being a white knight for women who only want to fuck Chads and cuckold beta male boyfriends and hubbies? Join the dark side. I invite every beta male on this blog to join the dark side and fight for men’s rights together.

You want to know why I joined the dark side? Society has treated me like shit all my life because I’m an autistic manlet. Society made me who I am. And one day I woke up and decided that I was going to stop being subservient to a society that enslaves us and treats us like yesterday’s garbage. I decided to go my own way. I don’t owe society shit. We’re going to red pill as many men and female allies (like MRA Karen Straughan) as we possibly can. Every single one of you white knight beta cucks will be red pilled and see the truth. You’ll stop being white knights. You’ll stop being cucks. You’ll be disciplines and acolytes of the Red Pill church.

And together we will put our bodies upon the gears, the levers, upon all the apparatus until we make it all stop. Until western civilization collapses. If we all go our own way and drop out of society, society will crash. Society can’t function without beta males. If it wasn’t for beta male engineers, there would be no Tinder for sluts to hook up with Chads. You beta males. You are the difference in the world. Stop being cucks. And join us.

Society has done nothing for you David. You’re obese and ugly. No girl wants to fuck you unless she wants to use you for beta bux. You owe nothing to society. Join the dark side.

Why should we be nice to girls and pretend to take an interest in their lives when these bitches fuck Chad without a condom on the first date without any effort? Why should we buy bitches dinner and drinks. Wine and dine them and jump hoops in order to get laid when Chad gets it instantly and for free? Beta males need to boycott dating and boycott society.

BETA MALES OF THE WORLD UNITE

Sorry, I’m not going to join your revolution. Which is a pity for you, because I could destroy Western Civilization in a snap BY SITTING ON IT.

giphyrimshotBONUS POINTS for anyone who can find the sentence in the above manifesto copied almost word for word from a famous speech by Mario Savio of the Berkeley Free Speech Movement in 1964. I mean, for anyone who can find it without clicking that link, which would sort of be cheating.

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Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Dear shitlord “incels”,
This is and always will be my advice to you:

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/maybe-you-should-hustle-as-hard-as-you-hate.jpg

When all you think you have going for you is a “great personality” being an asshat of the highest standing (sitting?) isn’t much of a plan, is it? Also, stop thinking you are awesome because you imagine the people who make cool things are like you. Very few people are actually as whiny, self-involved, entitled and senselessly bitter as you are.

You think of yourselves as not being vain, but I’ve never read so much vanity as when I read sluthater/MGTW complaints and threats.You think so much of yourselves that you think you are owed access to other people’s bodies and that society will collapse if you talk a bunch of shit about the people who do not owe you access to their bodies. No “Chad” could compare to that sort of vanity. Knowing your abs look tight is isn’t vain. Knowing women like making love to you isn’t vain. Some people are better at certain things than other people and that’s nice. Hooray for happy people who like themselves!

Thinking the whims of your boner should dictate the raise and fall of civilization is fucking hubris.

Dudebros,
If all you do is think of how pitiful and ugly you are, you are still only thinking of yourself. People don’t like to hang out with people that selfish. Low self-esteem doesn’t make you a good person. Not admiring you doesn’t make other people bad. If the only thoughts of other people you can muster is how much you hate them for not blowing you or for getting blown, you are the one with the problem and it isn’t that you joined a make believe darkside or that you’re too nice. It’s that you put you head up you ass and convinced yourself that the view is much better from that position because it’s all you, you, you, you. Grow up. Get some perspective. You aren’t being oppressed and for fucks sake, stop hanging out on sites that just make you feel uglier and more alone. They aren’t doing you any favors.

Oh, and if a woman does blow you before you start working on your issues, you better thank her profusely and send her all the flowers, because you are seriously repugnant. All those things you think you don’t owe women who do date you because you are so special? Respect, kindness, good company and fun? You do. In spades. You’re awful. Really. You should hand out Thank You cards to any woman who has to interact with you until you stop being such a hateful bigot. The day you stop being “that guy” you can stop.

.

toujoursgai
5 years ago

I wonder is Brad Pitt is aware of all the internet discussions he gets dragged into.

because reasons
because reasons
5 years ago

@Lea
You’re awesome…your “Letter To The Dudebros” should be taught in schools. 🙂

@toujoursgai
I’m sure he’s purposely and blissfully ignorant. Besides, he’s WAY too busy gettin’ it on with all the wimminz of the world, dontcha know?

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

So is it like Schrödinger’s Brad Pitt, cause you don’t know if he is or isn’t doing the sexy times with all the wimminz once you take your eyes off him? He exists in a state where he both is and isn’t having all the sex?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I cheated on my husband with Brad Pitt and I’ve never even been married. That’s how good Brad is at woman stealing and that’s how depraved and evil women are.

dhag85
5 years ago

@Ellesar

Didn’t get that reference. 🙁

because reasons
because reasons
5 years ago

@WWTH
According to most MRA’s, you technically were cheating…on your future husband. You shouldn’t sully your vagina riding the cock carousel! You need to stay virtuous and pure…unless some dude asks you to pleasure him. Then you shouldn’t be such a prude. Brad Pitt isn’t to blame, he’s a victim too. Wimminz has all the ebils.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Adding my short man love to the pile.

I’m ashamed to say I have oogled Daniel Radcliff because he’s so much younger than me, but I can’t look away. He’s too beautiful. Will …not …my …own.

I have short son. It is an issue. He doesn’t want to be little because he contains multitudes and wants to look on the outside like he feels on the inside. He has also already internalized the idea that small is bad when you are a boy. (That means he probably already knows being big is a bad thing for girls.) I make sure to pick up comics and books for him that have characters that he can see himself in. Teen titans Go!, The Ranger’s Apprentice and Star Wars appeal to him. It’s a process, but he’s already coming around to the idea that he’s pretty fucking marvelous as he is. His dad reads him Ranger’s Apprentice and he loves the main character because he sees himself in him. That’s important to kids. (It’s almost as important to adults.) He likes to watch parkor videos and his confidence is growing.
Trouble brew’n.

My husband isn’t attractive just because of his height or his baby blues and roguish smirk. He’s attractive because he’s the kind of guy who buys flowers for nuns. That’s not a metaphor. He felt a nun he worked with was feeling unappreciated last week, so he got her flowers.

The heart, she melts.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

My short man of choice is Hal Sparks. He’s talented, attractive, funny and I’m sure he has trouble finding willing partners. But according to incels, he’d be an unfuckable manlet. Nope!

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

That was supposed to be “sure he has no trouble.”

scheibere
scheibere
5 years ago

@MaxineHeadroom –
I love love love your cat Chad! He looks just like my cat Carson, roan belly and all!

Carson is female but someone at the shelter thought she was a boy kitty and gave her that name. She actually is very dominant and acts like a tom and likes to boss our other kitties around. She’s sweet with humans though.

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

My wife got married in red because I was her second husband and she felt that white would be essentially fraudulent.

And I was very very far from her second lover – by all accounts (or rather specifically hers) she rode the cock carousel for all it was worth in the years following her divorce.

Have a guess how bothered my face looks?

Pavlov's House
Pavlov's House
5 years ago

@Basiorana “ex-military” + “also very respectful of women” + “the only guy in a group of about 20 who shut the other guys down for making misogynistic statements.”

Love it, love it, love it. What branch? US Army here. Still regrettably a lot of sexism in the U.S. Army but we fight it. Disrespect, harass or assault your fellow soldiers and you’ll be court-martialed. Good.

My own personal beliefs and actions would make me (I hope) among the worst of manginas according to MRAs. Not built like a tank, but (if I do say so myself) damn well ripped (Crossfit + hot yoga + 258 last Army PT test at 45 years old – yeah, yeah, I know 258 ain’t that great in the big Army but hey in a Reserve unit it’s actually damn good)….on last BA with my reserve unit were doing battle drills in the field – males and females in the same squads and fire-teams. When taking my turn as squad leader BOTH of my team-leaders (one male and one female) were moving their fire-teams with the most awesome expertise I have seen in a long time. The f-ers who whine about women taking away from men usually have never served with them in a real capacity.

I love how MGTOWs and some other species of MRAs lecture all other men on traditional masculinity and manliness and just assume that if we’re feminists we must be emasculated blobs who don’t lift like big bad manly-men. Yet THEY rarely measure up to their own standards for masculinity when, ironically, many men who ACTUALLY LIKE WOMEN do.

Pavlov's House
Pavlov's House
5 years ago

@because reasons

Yes, if they are calling themselves “manlets” and they think the term is negative then that does indeed suggest self-esteem difficulties.

In the PUA world there is much talk about “manlets” as an indicator of our society’s shying away from validation of masculinity. But they miss that — *even by traditional standards* — there is more than one way to be define and express masculinity. After all, our culture has always had multiple types of masculine archetypes. *Women* and well as men who have observed and written about masculinity and its various manifestations have of course validated the notion that there’s a multitude of different ways to express gender and still “be a man”. What all this gets at, in my mind, is that the ways of one expressing oneself that THEY reify into the “manlet” concept are, in real life and in the minds of others, probably include just as legitimate expressions of masculinity as anything else (i.e. legitimate according to mainstream cultural standards,) Even CIS-gender manhood is actually more inclusive, extensible, and flexible than contemporary misogynists would have it..

Regulars in my yoga class include a (male) professional ballet dancer, a professional basketball player, soldiers (like me!), motorcycle-ridin’, truck-ownin’ “regular guys”, industrious successful business owners, and so on. All DUDES. Who like women. And who take their female yoga teachers seriously.

Kestrel
Kestrel
5 years ago

@Wetherby – In some Asian cultures red is very lucky. I think that makes you a really lucky guy. 🙂

freemage
5 years ago

You know, even the Brad Pitt obsession is nothing other than the classic “She’s fucking someone other than MMMMEEEEeeeeeee!” complaint. To-wit: There is, in male geek circles (which, of course, overlap heavily with the manosphere), an unhealthy obsession with Angelina Jolie. Her stint as Lara Croft is the most obvious cause, though some of her other roles play a factor, too (there’s also the fact that she’s actually appeared full-nude in some early movies, incidentally providing wank-fodder for guys who search out just the clips). So, once again, they end up despising the guy who is having sex with the woman they want to have sex with.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Chicks dig the Chad. He’s so cute and stripey and fuzzy!

And those big green eyes! Squeeeeee!

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Also, please put me down as one of those women who’ve liked, loved and dated short guys. When it comes packaged with cuteness and charm, I will gladly ditch the high heels for THAT.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

I’m 5’6”, and I like shorter guys too! My boyfriend’s 5’8”, and he’s taught me the benefits of dating shorter men/men of average height. So much easier to kiss them, look into their eyes, dance with them, and do lots of other fun stuff too! Plus, high heels are honestly pretty annoying and uncomfortable when they’re higher than 2 or 3 inches.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
5 years ago

Mr. FM is 5’7″, and if he forgets to stand up straight I end up being the taller of the two of us. His height has made his life a living hell of foreign travel, a broad range of interesting hobbies and a successful career to finance them, a long and fun bachelorhood, a fabulous yet modest wife, and two healthy children.

If only he’d been a few inches taller. Then maybe he could have made something with his life…

Thalia
Thalia
5 years ago

@Flying Mouse. That poor man. Truly, the feminist oppression runs deep.

epitome of incomprehensibility

I was a young teenager when the Lord of the Rings movies came out, and for a while I was madly in love with Frodo – not just the actor Elijah Wood, but also the character in the book and in the bizarrely endearing Ralph Bakshi animated version. Hobbits are not supposed to be tall. And Frodo’s the main character but he’s not exactly “alpha.”

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants:
about the Chad thing – to use a literary term, I LOL’d!

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

Frodo has a serious, serious fanbase out there, a legion of fangirls.

I dated a boy who looked like him once. Short, with long, curly hair and giant, giant blue eyes. So handsome. And an ardent feminist.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@Jarnsaxa – 🙂

UnattractiveMale
UnattractiveMale
5 years ago

@lea While you raise some interesting points, i do have issue with some of what you say.

‘having low self esteem doesn’t make you a good person’

Well it doesn’t make you a bad person either.

‘If all you do is think of how pitiful and ugly you are’

Here you’re putting the emphasis on the guy. What if he is ugly through some random genetic lottery? Saying that he ‘thinks’ makes it sound like it’s all in his head and there aren’t unfortunately ugly people out there. That if he sorted his issues he’d be attractive. This isn’t true. There are people out there who are unattractive and feel that they miss out on a lot of things most people take for granted.

This frustration has ironically led these guys to anti feminist, men’s rights sites. I say ironically because you’d think a less macho society, with less emphasis on traditional gender roles would benefit these guys.

The loneliness brought about by being less physically desirable than average is an issue that affects men and women equally. It is not just in people’s heads and can’t be fixed by positive or good thoughts and a better personality.

I say all of this as a man in his 30’s who is short, bald and has a skin condition on his face. Trust me when i say that life without ever having a significant other can lead to some dark thoughts and lot’s of jealousy of others. just because the guy is a misguided asshole doesn’t mean that his toxic personality is the only reason he can’t get a date. The world is shallower than most like to admit.

Sissy
Sissy
5 years ago

(Man, I need to post here more often!)

I’m terribly sorry, I should brush up on my terminology! Because every time I see a mention of “fucking Chads”, I keep thinking about those little dangling pieces of paper from the ballots during the 2000 Presidential election.

Pretty sure that nobody’s out doing ballots like that.

Tracy
Tracy
5 years ago

I say all of this as a man in his 30’s who is short, bald and has a skin condition on his face. Trust me when i say that life without ever having a significant other can lead to some dark thoughts and lot’s of jealousy of others. just because the guy is a misguided asshole doesn’t mean that his toxic personality is the only reason he can’t get a date. The world is shallower than most like to admit.

@UnattractiveMale, I don’t expect you’ll be back but I’m going to repeat something I posted in a similar thread. Mainly because this attitude is really pissing me off. Not because unattractive people don’t exist – I get it, some people are more or less physically attractive than others. It’s just I haven’t seen this play out in real life the way some people say it does.

A client of mine is a short, balding man with no arms. He dated, got married and has kids. Really happy guy. Has a great attitude and a lot of interests he has pursued all his life, which have turned into an amazing career.

My dad is short, has glasses, has been bald since his early 20’s, and has had a prosthetic hand since his early 20’s. My mum married him (she was a model at the time, and gorgeous) because she fell for his sense of humour, his kindness – a lot of things about him.

One of my friends is morbidly obese, and his wife freakin’ adores him, as do most people because he is awesome and funny and generous and fun to be around.

Another friend of mine, who is very attractive, has a definite ‘type’ she is attracted to: slightly chubby bald guys with a quirky sense of humour.

You’re short, bald and have a skin condition on your face. There’s a hell of a lot more to you than that, I’m sure. And yes, looks do matter – it’s just that they matter in varying degrees to different people. Don’t decide that the way you look means you’re going to be lonely forever. You’ll have a less easy time than a “Chad”, sure, but it isn’t a death sentence. Attitude matters.

Viewaskew
Viewaskew
5 years ago

I think Chad is a reference to “Chad Thundercock” on redpill sites.

UnattractiveMale
UnattractiveMale
5 years ago

Good day @Tracy While I appreciate you giving positive examples of people who aren’t conventionally attractive achieving life goals, I think you’re missing my point.

I was commenting on the spirit of the previous post which seemed to me to imply that attitude and personality were the primary cause of the guy in the article’s social inadequacies. I was pointing out that being less attractive or being physically unimpressive does affect people (not just men as i wrote previously). It can lead to being less fulfilled and sometimes, in regards to the guy in the article, can lead to destructive social tendencies.

i want people to understand that when using words like ‘decide’ you put the agency on me. Implying that i and others like me somehow are responsible for other people’s attitudes. There are many privileges in this world, as a straight white male i enjoy quite a few, but being conventionally attractive also brings with it a lot of privilege too, that i don’t enjoy.

That I pointed this out ‘pisses’ you off does not change reality. All the good examples you provide do not take away the power of my experience or the guy in the article’s experience.

What I would like is to not ignore the reality of the situation. Instead, as I said before, explain to these angry guys that the current system does them no favours. A society with more compassion and less emphasis on hyper masculinity would benefit them greatly.

I appreciate that you took the time to respond to me though.

On a side note I never used the word ‘chad’ it sounds beyond stupid lol

Malitia - SJW Who Lurks Above in Shadow
Malitia - SJW Who Lurks Above in Shadow
5 years ago

What is this stench… Oh, Necro trolling. Let me try to do a shorter UnattractiveMale:

“Boo hoo! Why can’t we have pretty people privileges too?! Outside of already enjoying many privileges people I ‘splain to don’t, including but not limited to lot more attainable standards of beauty. Why can’t they understand our true and deep man pain!”

Aggrieved entitlement. That’s what this is. :/

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Sigh. Not having women falling all over you isn’t oppression. Sure, conventionally attractive people get some perks in life. That does not mean we should try and feel the pain of men who literally want to kill us for not giving them endless blow jobs.

Unattractive Male’s comments are the very embodiment of “men are afraid women are going to laugh at them, women are afraid men are going to kill them.” What’s worse is that he and so many other men seem to think that the former fear is more deserving of sympathy and understanding than the latter.

Never mind that many of the women who commented in this thread are currently or formerly not conventionally attractive and have to live with the much harsher penalties women face for not meeting beauty standards. Never mind that if we are conventionally attractive, we’re treated like bimbos and sex objects who couldn’t possibly be intelligent or have earned any accomplishment. Never mind that on top of the beauty minefield that women must navigate, we also have to deal with rape culture, threats to reproductive rights and so on.

You’re not going to find many arguments from feminists that our culture should continue to place great importance on arbitrary and rigid standards of beauty. In fact, we’ve been arguing against that all along. Something men would realize if they actually listened to what women said instead of just treating us like sex objects or inscrutable alien creatures. But you’re also not going to find us sympathetic to the idea that we should make whether or not an angry misogynist gets a date our top priority.

End rant that nobody will even read.

Tracy
Tracy
5 years ago

@UnattractiveMale

I was commenting on the spirit of the previous post which seemed to me to imply that attitude and personality were the primary cause of the guy in the article’s social inadequacies. I was pointing out that being less attractive or being physically unimpressive does affect people (not just men as i wrote previously). It can lead to being less fulfilled and sometimes, in regards to the guy in the article, can lead to destructive social tendencies.

Sure, it affects people. Of course some people do treat those they view as unattractive (for whatever reason) poorly. It’s still up to you (the general you) to choose how you respond, to choose your attitude, to choose who you are in the world and how you view and treat others.

i want people to understand that when using words like ‘decide’ you put the agency on me. Implying that i and others like me somehow are responsible for other people’s attitudes.

You do have agency. Not over how people treat you… over how YOU treat them. Over how YOU respond to them. Over how YOU behave in the world. Over your own attitudes. You have ownership over these things.

What I would like is to not ignore the reality of the situation. Instead, as I said before, explain to these angry guys that the current system does them no favours. A society with more compassion and less emphasis on hyper masculinity would benefit them greatly.

You’re not going to find any arguments against that here. What you will find is people having very little compassion for someone who DECIDES that because life isn’t working out for them the way they want because they’re unattractive, they will work to destroy western civilization and treat women and men who they decide are ‘Chads’ like shit; that they will spew hate all over the place. That is one ugly attitude. It’s an ugly attitude coming from anyone, regardless of how they look physically.

And of course, if that’s your attitude… well, hello confirmation bias. Suddenly everything that happens to you is BECAUSE you’re a ‘beta’ or because society thinks you’re ugly, or whatever. If this is the filter through which you see the world, you’re going to see a pretty shitty world.

tl;dr: Point is, there are many, many people who are not conventionally attractive who do not choose to have a shit attitude towards other people and the world in general, and life tends to work out much better for them.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

@Tracy: Your post made me think of this:
comment image

UnattractiveMale
UnattractiveMale
5 years ago

@Tracy I suppose it comes down to this, What would you do with guys like the one in the article?

Ignore them? I doubt they’ll go away.

Berate them? They already believe negative attention is the only attention they’ll receive.

Or as I do, engage with them. You may never convince the guy in the article but you may get to someone else who is not as far gone, who happens to be following the discussion.

@wierwoodtreehugger and @malitia I believe you both have made several incorrect assumptions about me. I never mentioned ‘oppression’ nor am I ‘trolling’ anyone. How some one feels may sometimes be disproportionate to what others go through but that doesn’t change how they feel.

If we are talking oppression you may have read ‘straight white male’ and jumped to wrong conclusions. I am a minority where I live and I personally have lived through oppression ( though thankfully things are not as bad now) I am well aware of how a system can bet set against a particular group. So I am not arguing from a mindset that has never experienced ‘true’ oppression. I do know the difference between not having privilege and oppression though.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

UnattractiveMale | April 12, 2015 at 12:40 pm
@Tracy I suppose it comes down to this, What would you do with guys like the one in the article?

Ignore them? I doubt they’ll go away.

Berate them? They already believe negative attention is the only attention they’ll receive.

Or as I do, engage with them. You may never convince the guy in the article but you may get to someone else who is not as far gone, who happens to be following the discussion.

Expecting us to engage with them, despite the fact that they already believe they are entitled to our time, attention, and patience? No thanks.

Some of us aren’t up for debating our existence or bodily autonomy to people who won’t listen and brush us off all day, ‘erry day. Some of us just want to live.

Some of us might want to engage, but expecting all of us to play nice is bullshit.

How some one feels may sometimes be disproportionate to what others go through but that doesn’t change how they feel.

No one said otherwise?

In fact, we have to make that argument a LOT against people who march in here and demand we go do something “in the Middle East” because we “Western Women” have it so much better than they do.

Oppression is not a game, there are no winners, only losers.

Feminists do recognize that men have their fair share of problems under the patriarchy. We understand that there’s tons of issues with things like toxic masculinity, non-visibility of male rape victims, the disproportionate amount of black men prosecuted in our court systems, the non-acceptance of transmen as men, and the pressures to be straight and fuck a lot of women (because men’s only worth is how many women they’ve banged, according to society).

No one said these weren’t important. The problem is that we get told to drop all of our issues that we’re focusing on to fix these problems by MRAs, Incels, and the like, and the way they want it “fixed” will only screw us over.

If we are talking oppression you may have read ‘straight white male’ and jumped to wrong conclusions. I am a minority where I live and I personally have lived through oppression ( though thankfully things are not as bad now) I am well aware of how a system can bet set against a particular group. So I am not arguing from a mindset that has never experienced ‘true’ oppression. I do know the difference between not having privilege and oppression though.

I hate to break this to you, but being a ‘straight white male’ most anywhere in the world makes you immediately not a minority (especially if you live in the States or in the UK). You may live in an area with fewer ‘straight white males’ than usual, but trust me, the rest of the world caters to you still. You still have privilege, regardless of how you’re treated as a ‘minority’ where you live.

And no, you haven’t ‘lived through oppression’. You’re a straight, white male. No oppression there. At all. People may have treated you badly, and they may have said things that hurt your feelings, but you aren’t oppressed, nor have you ever been, because you’re a straight white male. The system in place is there to serve you, regardless of where you live.

There is no such thing as “reverse racism”, there’s no such thing as “hetrophobia”, and there’s no such thing as “reverse sexism”. Take it from a queer white cis female.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ WWTH

I read it. Very good points. Only downside was it was on topic so I can’t use my new favourite word “Tangerant” 🙂 [Someone on this site cam up with that; brilliant]

@ Unattractive Male & Paradoxical Intention

Yup. Don’t wish to seem harsh. I know people have individual problems, but en masse, in the game of life “straight white male” is like having all the cheat codes.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Engage with incels? No. Fuck that. I don’t feel bad for them at all. I have had a lifetime of body image issues and social awkwardness. Somehow, I manage to not be happy when men are murdered. Or when women who I perceive as more fortunate than I murdered. Not because I’m such a sweet and wonderful person. But because that’s a pretty minimum standard of human decency. These guys have given me no reason to think they are capable of redemption. If they are, it’s not going to be with me holding their hands.

It’s reprehensible to expect it from the targets of their hate.

UnattractiveMale
UnattractiveMale
5 years ago

@paradoxical intention Where do I start, I find myself staring in disbelief at the screen… The people who where oppressing my people where also white. I grew up in a state designed to stop my people getting power. Both sides of the conflict are white.

‘and no, you haven’t ‘lived through oppression”

A member of my family is dead because of this conflict. I have had a police officer spit in my face during a peaceful protest to get equal rights for my people when i was younger. I was called vermin by a charming old lady for no reason other than I was on the wrong side of the conflict. I have had a knife held to my face because i was walking in the wrong part of town. I could go on about my personal experiences but more importantly I’ve seen financial support taken from my town and given to the less populace neighbouring town. That town just happens to be filled with the people from the ruling side of the conflict. They are very rich and very white.

Please don’t make the assumption i know nothing about oppression because I’m straight and white.

@alan Robertshaw there are no cheat codes to bring murdered family members back from the dead.

Everyone is human, no one does things in a vacuum. People hurt and the hurt makes them do bad things. Maybe you don’t want to engage them but they won’t go away. They are stupid but they are also being manipulated by others just looking for personal gain. In an internet age it can be more frustrating to engage i agree but something has to be done.

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

“People hurt and the hurt makes them do bad things.”

That is such a tired excuse for this shit. You know what? Most people get hurt some time in their lives. Many people get very hurt. Quite a few people go through such trauma they will never quite feel whole or healed. Yet the vast majority of these people don’t go on to hurt and hate anyone else, especially huge groups of people. People who hurt and hate people don’t get to use ‘well someone hurt and hated me’ as an excuse for hating and hurting others.

suffrajitsu
suffrajitsu
5 years ago

@Unattractive Male,

I’m an unattractive female. Standards of female beauty are even tougher, and while people make some pretty mean jokes about ugly men, people are much more likely to reduce ugly women solely to their looks or act like they don’t even have a right to exist. But anyway, that’s not the point. No one’s arguing with you that society can be shallow and cruel to people deemed unattractive, both men and women.

The reason your comments have received hostility is because you made not just one, but *multiple* lengthy comments about how hard it is to be an unattractive male, on a post mocking someone who *threatens revolt* against society for being so mean to unattractive males. In this context, it comes across as self-pitying or melodramatic, or even apologist towards people who threaten to kill women because they can’t get laid. I don’t know you, and I could give you the benefit of the doubt that that’s not what you intended, but that’s how it comes across.

I’m very, very sorry about what happened to your family. But I have to say, I think you’re being a little unfair to the other commenters. When they were saying you weren’t oppressed, they weren’t claiming you had never suffered or that you don’t have a right to your pain. They were responding to your numerous lengthy comments about how mean the world is to unattractive males. They were pointing out that while you may have been treated poorly, it’s a little ungracious to act as if the system is gamed against you because you are an unattractive male. Yes, unattractive people (not just males) have some disadvantages compared to attractive people. But being straight, white, and male means you also have significant advantages compared to other groups.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

UnattractiveMale | April 13, 2015 at 12:23 am
@paradoxical intention Where do I start, I find myself staring in disbelief at the screen… The people who where oppressing my people where also white. I grew up in a state designed to stop my people getting power. Both sides of the conflict are white.

‘and no, you haven’t ‘lived through oppression”

A member of my family is dead because of this conflict. I have had a police officer spit in my face during a peaceful protest to get equal rights for my people when i was younger. I was called vermin by a charming old lady for no reason other than I was on the wrong side of the conflict. I have had a knife held to my face because i was walking in the wrong part of town. I could go on about my personal experiences but more importantly I’ve seen financial support taken from my town and given to the less populace neighbouring town. That town just happens to be filled with the people from the ruling side of the conflict. They are very rich and very white.

Please don’t make the assumption i know nothing about oppression because I’m straight and white.

How about you define “my people” beyond “straight, white males” (you’ve been awfully vague so far so forgive me if I’m a little more leery because of that) before we start talking about “but I’m so oppressed!”. But, if this is true (and it’s on the internet and coming from someone I don’t trust, so I’m taking it with way more than just a single grain of salt), my point still stands: You haven’t lived through oppression. I’m sorry if a member of your family is dead, but again: Not oppression. Conflict. Two different words. And words mean things.

But, let’s play Devil’s Advocate and say that what you’re going through is actually oppression. That doesn’t mean that you understand every single kind of oppression now, does it?

You don’t have the lived experience of a woman, a queer person, a trans person (or a person of any other non-binary gender), or a person of color. So, you can’t know what that exact kind of oppression is like because, you said it yourself, you are a “straight white male”.

So, when you come and talk to someone who is oppressed in ways you are not (and even in ways that give you privilege over them) and tell them you expect them to be nice to other people who harass them and want them either dead or forced into prostitution for the sake of entitled white males, you still come off looking very much like an asshole.

And pulling the “But I’m so oppressed too, u guiz!” card doesn’t make you instantly look better. It only makes you more of an asshole because you’re siding with those you share privilege with against other oppressed people.

It’s like when gay cis men are sexist against women or transpeople. They end up being jerks because they’re siding with cis men against people who are less oppressed than they are, despite the fact they still might have some overlap in oppressed groups.

Either way, you can still go swim in an ocean of knock-off Legos friendo.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

It’s like when gay cis men are sexist against women or transpeople. They end up being jerks because they’re siding with cis men against people who are *more* oppressed than they are, despite the fact they still might have some overlap in oppressed groups.

Eh, sorry, there was a typo. My mouse is acting up and I was more focused on that. : P

M.
M.
5 years ago

@Troll

It’s pretty obvious that they meant you haven’t lived through oppression for being a straight white male, not for any other potential unrelated reason.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Unattractive male,
Here’s the point that you continue to miss. Plenty of women are shunned for not meeting conventional beauty standards. Plenty of women suffer pain because of it. Yet, there are no sites equivalent to sluthate comprised of women. There are no female incels. Or at least not enough of them to form a group. Because it’s not about pain. It’s about male entitlement.

Telling a bunch of women, most of whom have experienced pain and rejection ourselves that we should try and understand these guy’s pain is deeply fucking offensive.

M.
M.
5 years ago

I’m pretty sure he’s alluding to The Troubles. Which is way more original than the old standby of “I’m totally a black woman! #NotYourShield #GamerGate,” I’ll give him that.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Also, you should read the recent post and comments about the reddit thread full of women sharing their experiences as kids being harassed or abused by predatory adult men. It would do you good to see what our pain is like. Maybe then you’ll quit pretending that we can’t possibly grasp the depths of manpain.

suffrajitsu
suffrajitsu
5 years ago

@M. yeah, I thought maybe he was talking about Northern Ireland too. Personally I chose to take his word for it, though, because it’s irrelevant to the original point, which was that being an unattractive male isn’t oppression.

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

Also, incels are not in pain because they are oppressed, they are in pain because they did not get the clockwork vagina they were promised if they pretended to be nice. That you compare this with oppression is just… telling.

UnattractiveMale
UnattractiveMale
5 years ago

Yes I’m an Irish Nationalist from Northern Ireland, (tried to be vague because I didn’t want personal politics to get involved) the oppression preceded the conflict. And yes I did loose a close family member because of that time.

Ok ok to save everyone the hassle of rereading my posts i’ll copy what i said here.

‘ I do know the difference between not having privilege and oppression ‘

I thought i had clearly expressed that i didn’t consider myself oppressed because of my looks but it appears I didn’t make that clear enough. I DO NOT consider myself oppressed because of my looks. Though i do find my looks affect my overall quality of life.

It was @weirwoodtreehugger who implied I thought i was oppressed. I stated that I had experienced real oppression to emphasize that I actually knew the difference.

@suffrajitsu I have more than once said that feeling alienated from society because of looks is not a male only issue. I have also never denied that being a straight white male comes with privileges. I have even conceded that my feelings and those of these Incels (their words not mine) are ‘disproportionate’ to reality.

@paradoxical ‘You don’t have the lived experience of a woman, a queer person, a trans person (or a person of any other non-binary gender), or a person of color. So, you can’t know what that exact kind of oppression is like because, you said it yourself, you are a “straight white male”.’

I don’t get your point. I’m not a gay person but I have been surrounded by a gang of people brandishing knives intent on doing me harm because of how i was born, not because of a choice I made. I’m sure there a people of the LGBT community who I could empathise with in that regard. I would completely disagree that I would know nothing of the experience of a person of colour. Being treated like a criminal on several occasions despite committing no crime would be just the start of it.

@weirwoodtreehugger Again I am trying to say that the experience of living in a looks obsessed world while not conforming to those standards is a universal problem. Not just manpain. That a small subsection of the male side has taken this experience and decide to poison the well does not make the experience any less real.

but i’ll ask again because i genuinely want to know the groups answer. What would you do with these guys? just let them fester and infect other people?

And I honestly do realise that asking to engage these men on an emotional level is asking a lot. i know they say and do horrible things and that some don’t want to change but can we afford to leave them to their own devices?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@UnattractiveMale:

but i’ll ask again because i genuinely want to know the groups answer. What would you do with these guys? just let them fester and infect other people?

Well, what would you do with a group of exhasperatingly entitled people who make mountains out of molehills and drone endlessly about how not getting laid is the worst form of oppression?

You may not know this, but we’ve had quite a number of incels comment here. Who knows why. And wouldn’t you know it, the commentariat tried to reason with them, tried to explain that women don’t exist for them, that their looks are not going to be the primary factor in their relationships if they could just stop fixating on them. We’ve tried to be supportive, even to one of the most obsessive trolls ever to comment here (which in retrospect may have been more harmful than helpful), thinking if we could just get through to them, they might go on to live happier, healthier lives.

Some people just don’t want to listen. Some people can’t imagine their worldview and framing to be wrong, and no amount of patient explaining and counter examples will make it past the mental barriers they’ve set up.

What would I do with these guys? Nothing. It’s not my job to take responsibility for a group of men’s mental state. I’ll comment about them, and point out how every post they make declaring a man a 6/10 for not having the correct eye ridges just digs them deeper in to the despair of their own making. However, I won’t take it upon myself to try to fix their problems, and I won’t pretend that their shallow understanding of human relations is really some deep insight that I just wouldn’t understand because I’ve somehow managed to find people who would have sex with me.

If the guy who wrote the comment in this OP came up to me and asked to talk things over, with the intent of working things out in his life, I’d be up for it because that’s the type of guy I am. Barring any true desire for help, and only desiring pity and capitulation, I’m not interested. As for any sort of societal action, I have to ask what you’re expecting.