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Internet incels celebrate Andreas Lubitz, the alleged killer co-pilot of Germanwings Flight 9525, as a "legitimate SLAYER" and an "incel hero"

The New Incel Hero: Neither an incel nor a hero
The New Incel Hero: Neither an incel nor a hero

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Sluthate’s “shitty advice” forum, devoted to discussing such high-minded topics as “Do fat women have dirtier vaginas?” and “why is rape bad,” is a haven for embittered “incels” — self-described “involuntary celibates” — who’ve convinced themselves that they are too objectively unattractive and un-alpha to attract attention from the cruel and superficial “sluts” of the world — a category that seems to include all the women they find attractive.

Back when the forum was known as PUAhate, it was a regular hangout of one especially embittered incel, a young man known as Elliot Rodger, who last year killed six in Isla Vista California, and then himself, in what he called his “Day of Retribution” against women. Many of Sluthate’s regulars, unsurprisingly, have embraced “ER” as a kind of incel martyr.

Now they’ve found a new and improved hero: Andreas Lubitz, the troubled co-pilot who, French officials say, deliberately flew Germanwings Flight 9525 into a mountain in the French Alps.

In a topic entitled BREAKING: Co-pilot was incel and crashed the plane!!!, Sluthate regulars have embraced Lubitz as “one of them” — and are enthusiastically celebrating his alleged mass murder as the possible beginning of a “Beta uprising.”

“New high score, and in a much shorter time too,” a commenter calling himself gobman3000 wrote happily. “Damn, legitimate SLAYER.”

Alienfranco was even more enthusiastic:

What a fucking SLAYER.

Did you ever know that you’re my hero? You are the wind beneath my WINGS. …

Why go out with a whimper when you can go out with a BANG? An incel killing 150+ people will make a lot more of an impact than killing 1 asshole or a few assholes.

A large percentage of the 150+ people on that plane were sluts and Chads anyway.

Hopefully all these incel killings get to a point where society will fear autists/incels and give us $2000/month and subsidized prostitution to placate us from killing normalfags.

OmegaKV noted that many of the passengers on the plane “were teenagers who were vacationing,” concluding

This was DEFINITELY an incel motivated plane crash.

He couldn’t take it too see so many good looking and happy teenagers with gfs, experiencing the adolescence he always longed for but never got, so took advantage of the perfect opportunity to kill himself while taking the teenage normalfags with him.

PuaKiller agreed:

Yeah. He definitely knew what he was doing. I can only imagine what he was feeling in that moment. Wow. …

This one is going in the hall of fame!

Largely dismissing the news reports suggesting that Lubitz did, in fact, have a girlfriend, the regulars examined each new picture of the alleged mass murderer that appeared in the media for telltale signs of his incel status.

PJ1 was brutal in his assessment:

-looks like a manlet from his proportions. I’d honestly be surprised if he’s over 5 10

-small frame

-critical balding

-beta face

OldRooster1 agreed:

guy does look like an incel manlet that came to the realization that the status of being a pilot was not enough to overcome his 3.5/10 looks/body.

“Look at that frame, he’s about 60kg soaking wet,” Jigar added. “I’d be surprised if his wrists were a hair over 6 inches thick.”

Still another commenter labeled him a “betafaced framecel” — whatever that is — and “the kind of guy that’s INVISIBLE.”

These are harsh assessments, to be sure, and in some cases seem to have virtually no connection with the photographic evidence, but the Sluthate regulars tend to be equally harsh in their assessments of themselves. Thread-starter Zark_Muckerberg, for example, attaches a sig to each of his posts quantifying his romantic and sexual failures:

gfs: 0
kisses: 0
handjobs: 0
blowjobs: 0
intercourse: 0

Having convinced themselves that they will never be able to have a life equal to that of the world’s “good looking and happy … normalfags,” the Sluthaters feel Lubitz’ pain — or, at least, the pain they imagine he felt.

Flawed Mentat blamed the killings on an uncaring world that didn’t deliver Lubitz  the “good woman” he deserved.

HE did not fire the first shot. Women and Society, blase, branded HIM as non human, invisible, an object of scorn and laughter. So, when it sunk in that all his effort was in vain, there were no good women awaiting him, life was gonna be just as empty, lonely and horrifying as before he even started training as a pilot, well, he probably logically decided to declare war back on the human race, since it was open in its war on him.

ThereIsNoGame agreed:

Just lol @ reddit comments saying how creepy it is that he didn’t think about the lives of all the people he killed.

Yeah, well what about all the people who never gave a fuck about him. He was probably treated like shit over and over again.

Society never looks itself in the mirror when it is to blame.

Don’t treat people like shit and shit wont happen. Why is that so hard to understand? 

He ended his comment with this chilling warning-cum-threat.

looks like more people will need to die until the message is drilled in.

Zygominati directed his ire at a familiar target:

I blame feminism for this. In days gone by pilots would flirt with stewardesses and pinch their arses. They would leave their hotel room ajar for layover shenanigans. Now they are bus drivers in the sky that can’t even take a shit. This incel was probably sold a dream and after countless hours of flight time realised there is nothing there.

Meanwhile, the few Sluthaters who didn’t utterly dismiss the news reports of Lubitz having a girlfriend seized on the reports that the two had broken up — and blamed the girlfriend for “cucking” him. As Patriarch put it,

If its true that his girlfriend cucked or dumped him, just imagine how smug this entitled shitcunt must feel like right now. Looking at him, she was a 4 at best but now she gets her own little fairytale drama story and she gets to go on TV and talk about how awful she feels and how she never expected this to happen. In the aftermath, a bunch of whiteknights will whiteknight her into oblivion and probably donate a million € to her fundme so she can learn to deal with this tragedy…. Fucking feminist shitcunt society

It goes without saying that all of these embittered rants are based almost entirely on projection. We know very little about Lubitz, or what might have motivated him to (allegedly) crash the plane, killing 149 innocent human beings and himself.

While news reports suggest that he had suffered from depression and from some other mental illnesses as yet unnamed, these revelations raise more questions than they answer. Depression can certainly contribute to suicide, but mass murder? Mentally ill people are more likely to be victims of violence than victimizers.

While it seems clear that Lubitz was not literally an “incel” — he apparently did have a girlfriend —  it’s certainly possible that he crashed the plane because he was upset over a breakup with that girlfriend, or angry at women in general.

That’s not a conclusion we can draw based on looking at Lubitz’s “waist-hip-ratio” or the size of his wrists. It’s a possibility we can raise based on our understanding of how murder/suicides unfold in the real world.

As I pointed out yesterday, murder/suicide is overwhelmingly a male crime, and the victims are often wives, girlfriends or exes. Breakups often trigger rage in men, and a few take this rage out on the women they feel have wronged them. Or, in extreme cases, on women in general. The intended targets of Elliot Rodger’s rampage were what the “spoiled, stuck-up, blonde slut[s]” in a local sorority. (Luckily, he was barred at the door and his plan collapsed.)

But even if Lubitz was driven by “incel rage” or something much like it, it’s worth pointing out that this rage is  based on bullshit. Elliot Rodger was not objectively unattractive; his problems with women came from within, from a mixture of embittered entitlement, self-hatred and an assortment of other psychological demons.

Similarly, the rage of Sluthate’s incels is driven not by the actual behavior of women in the real world but by their fucked-up ideas about women — and themselves. Sluthaters hate themselves as much as they hate “sluts,” and project their own hyper-critical assessments of their own looks onto the women they think are perpetually judging them and finding them wanting. Ironically, they themselves view women with the same hyper-critical eyes, dismissing all but a handful of young, conventionally attractive women as “fugly hambeasts” and the like.

Sluthate reinforces a poisonous and supremely self-defeating way of looking at the world. Whether or not Lubitz was driven by “incel rage,” I think we have every reason to worry that Sluthate and other internet forums devoted to “incels” may be breeding more “heroes” like Elliot Rodger and, possibly, Andreas Lubitz.

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isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

I always think they’re really going to give a straight answer this time. When will I learn?

brooked
brooked
5 years ago

I really don’t see the sense in dismissing the suffering of incels – I’m repeating myself here, again, because I don’t really see the alternative.

2. With that aside, why doesn’t their suffering matter? I don’t think the vast majority of incels think that they should have women forced to sleep with them. But its certainly true that their problem deserves moral consideration, in that their suffering has moral weight.

I don’t mean to blow you’re mind, but incels have not cornered the market on personal misfortune, romantic disappointment, emotional longing and/or heartbreak. Incels think their pain is uniquely spectacular, overwhelming and undeserved, but in fact there’s always plenty of raw emotional pain to go around. Yet you chucklefucks are so immature, narcissistic and devoid of empathy that you want the rest of society to drop everything and focus on getting you guys sex and/or a girlfriend. Hell, you think that there’s a moral imperative for strangers to actively work to solve your relationship problems.

You also apparently think incels have it as bad or worse than victims of poverty, racism and rape or any other damaging thing on earth. That’s because you don’t care about anyone, at all, other than yourself and men you see yourself in. You’re a selfish asshole asking for empathy while offering none.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Lisa

Mind if I steal “It’s a ‘duh’ thing” as a title if I ever write a Romcom?

sb77
sb77
5 years ago

Gandy. Why is it only a moral issue when men can’t get sex? Why have you ignored the dozens of responses from women who have mentioned that they have had problems getting sex?

Why aren’t these women also incels? Why don’t they deserve “moral consideration?” Why do you ignore their suffering?

Are you going to chalk it up to “gender differences?” Do you really believe that there are “studies” about gender difference that “prove” that women have absolutely no interest in sex and only give or withhold it to antagonize ugly men (who aren’t always even all that ugly)?

Sorry, but this is profoundly idiotic.

Tracy
Tracy
5 years ago

Holy shit, @Gandy et al.

First, I gotta put in a word for ‘Chads’ bc according to the description, Busband is a Chad. He’s tall, muscular, lean, good looking. He is a guy that you would apparently hate just for existing, bc he must automatically be an asshole, right? Never mind that he’s sweet, far more maternal than I’ll ever be, very gentle and considerate; that we laugh all the time, that we’re best friends, that he’s honest with me and open about himself. We’ve been happily unmarried to each other for 19 years. And when I first met him, I did not find him physically attractive at all, even though to many other women he was objectively attractive. His whole look wasn’t my ‘type’. I grew attracted to him as I got to know him, and then? I asked him out and we’ve been together from that day on.

Just saying – some ‘Chads’, and likely most ‘Chads’, are also good guys. Quit projecting on other men. They are people, for chrissakes.

Second… a moral issue? Moral consideration? FFS. It’s not like there aren’t resources for people (men and women) who are awkward or otherwise feel undateable. And looks? They are not an unsurmountable obstacle.

One of the happiest men I know is a client of mine. He has no arms. You want a dating obstacle? There you go. Have no arms. You want a reason to be bitter and pissed off at ‘society’? Have no arms. This fella, however, decided that ‘society’ didn’t dictate what his life was going to be like. He had an active social life in high school. He played trombone in band. Got his drivers license. Plays drums and piano. Dated around, got married, had kids. Built a successful business doing something he loves, gets to travel all over the world. He loves his life. What’s your excuse? Fucking wrist circumference?

Sure, looks are (over) emphasized in our culture. But in practice, they aren’t such a huge deal. My dad? Nerdy, short, glasses, bald since his twenties, and missing one hand. Married my mum, who was a model at the time. Now remarried to another very attractive woman who is awesome. My mum? Remarried to a wonderful guy who is tall, skinny, buck-toothed and has a deformed leg (from polio). Personality matters.

I’m not going to give moral consideration to a bunch of whiners who blame everyone but themselves for their lack of partners; who say they are going their own way, but really mean they are going to wallow and fester in their own bitterness and self-pity while shouting at the world to change rather than looking inwards to see if maybe, just maybe, they could use some self-care and self-improvement; who have a shitty victim attitude that has been entirely self-created, and who see the world as being against them so much that they delight when people die.

While I certainly hope they get some sort of insight into themselves and take some ownership over their own lives (for their own sake), I’m not going to coo over them in the meantime, or embark on a serious discussion about why society is to blame for their lack of blow jobs. I’m sorry they’re unhappy, but their sheer nastiness garners no sympathy from me, nor should it.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Sluthate seems to be the equivalent of a support group for angry people who got suckered by a get-rich-quick seminar. PUA is total bullshit, I think we can at least agree on that.

Attractiveness, like wealth, comes from a combination of things that are in your control and things that are out of your control. The crucial point is that neither one trumps the other. It’s possible to be wealthy even if you weren’t born, married, or educated into money, and it’s possible to be attractive even if you’re one of the 699,999,999 non-Brad-Pitt people on the planet. This thread is full of examples of people who eventually found love despite being lonely, despite being quirky, despite being non conventionally attractive and not dating a while lot. It’s also full of happily unpartnered people who don’t hang their worth on having sex. We’re not a bunch of sneaky con artists trying to blow sunshine up your posterior.

Just about everyone goes through “incel” or dry spells in their life, even the Chads and the HBs. I spent my whole adolescence convinced I was ugly and undateable. I’ve been single now for a few years and have no idea if or when I’ll date again. My 6’2″ Marine cousin, handsome, smart, and debonair as the day is long, was alone until well into his forties. My brother, in his late fifties, was alone for 7 years until just a few months ago, when he met and married the love of his life. My step-grandmother had never dated in her life till she met my widowed grandfather at age 63. All of us were too busy with life to waste time feeling bad about not being partnered.

I think your issue, Gandy, is that you’ve bought into the rigid caste system of traditional masculinity. Sure, it’s a system that works well for the lucky 1% alphas, but it’s pretty harmful for everyone else. One of the big lies of traditional masculinity is that attractivess is a fixed state, determined at birth by your genes and socioeconomic standing, that it cannot be altered, and there is a universal objective consensus about where you fall in the rankings. All untrue. Attractiveness is mutable and highly subjective and varies throughout your life. There is no one be-all, end-all way of being attractive that everyone agrees on. (Even the mythical Brad Pitt, you’ll find if you poll the straight/bi women and gay/bi men here, doesn’t do it for everybody). It’s absurd to talk about sexual ranking as if it’s something permanent, when no two people can even agree on what a given person’s attractiveness level is right this moment.

However, it is kind of a “duh” (to borrow Lisa’s phrase) that women are always going to be repelled by those who denigrate them as bitches and sluts and trophy fuck objects, who exult over the corpses of innocent victims because they believe blood is the price the world must pay for their pain, who advocate for government-sponsored rape. That’s just downright vile.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

I mean, I’d sooner lick a McDonald’s trash can.

As for your hypothetical overweight, brainy black woman, chances are her attitude about not being able to find a partner would be realistic and sad, because women tend to internalize these things and assume they’re at fault. Sadness is a more understandable and sympathetic reaction to loneliness than anger.

I don’t hang out in incel forums, but does anyone there ever express sadness, or would they get mocked mercilessly and ripped to shreds? In other words, might that mindset be causing you to deal with rejection in a way that others outside the community find puzzling and ludicrous and hard to sympathize with?

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

*preemptively asks the Blockquote Mammoth to let her live*

I’m repeating myself here, again, because I don’t really see the alternative.

The alternative would be to engage with some of the information you are being presented with. Take on board the stories people are sharing. Answer some of the questions you’re being asked. Repeating yourself and waiting for us to suddenly agree with you is not going to work.

1. Why are you so ready to believe that, against their own testimony, it is within the reasonable power of male incels to become sexually desirable?

I would contest that “sexually desirable” is not something that anyone can become—at least not in the sense of never getting rejected, never failing to click with someone you find attractive, or never having long, painful dry spells. “Sexually desirable” is not a fixed social category, and it is not in any sense an objective quality. It is not something that will work across the board for the entire gender(s) of your choosing.

You cannot become “sexually desirable”, full stop. You can only be (or become) sexually desirable to someone. If that person wants something that you are not, and cannot become, then that sucks, but that means that this person—an actual, individual human being—doesn’t want to sleep with you. No one has the ability or the right to change their feelings on the matter. Not to mention, that person is not representative of their entire gender.

Although, as many, many people have said, there are lots of proactive things to do to work towards self-improvement. You can’t make anyone in particular like you, but you can resist self-destructive cycles. You may never become a social butterfly, but you can learn how to cope with social situations a bit better. You may never come across as suave, but you can learn what sort of behavior widely reads as creepy, and learn to not do that. You may never look like Brad Pitt, but you can learn how to put together a decent outfit and haircut. You may never feel confident about asking a woman out, but you can learn how to ask her at all. I’d recommend checking out Dr. Nerdlove, who actually gives helpful advice about all of this, instead of bellyaching about mean women with other lonely dudes.

Isn’t this time to bow to the ‘lived experience’ of the people you are talking too…

I have listened to what they say, but I see big, gaping flaws it, because it is not actually their lived experience. Lived experience would be, “Every woman I have approached has rejected me. Some of them were really mean about it. That’s painful and I don’t know what to do. I’m angry and I’m not sure I want to bother with dating anymore, and yet I hate being lonely.” That’s honest lived experience, and I can have all kinds of compassion for that.

But when they start saying things like, “all women are just shallow sluts who will always throw themselves at a Chad, even/especially if he acts like an asshole”, then I have a right to say something, because they are talking about my lived experience as a woman now. That is not how I feel. That is not what any of my friends do. I know lots of single women in their thirties who really, really want to be in a relationship and have never turned down a man for being non-chad-like or for being too nice. But no matter how many any of us say, “Actually, the way we feel about this is XYZ,” incels won’t hear it, because it conflicts with their theory about us. We’re not the ones ignoring lived experience here.

2. With that aside, why doesn’t their suffering matter?

Nobody is saying that their suffering doesn’t matter. Loneliness sucks. A lot of us know this, because a lot of us have been (or are currently) there. We are contending that, from that place of legitimate loneliness, incels shift the blame to women and/or “Chads” in fantastically toxic ways. And we are also saying that society cannot, in any humane way, fix this for incels.

I don’t think the vast majority of incels think that they should have women forced to sleep with them.

And yet some clearly do, and incel forums have no problem with letting that language go unchecked. That’s a major problem for that community.

But its certainly true that their problem deserves moral consideration, in that their suffering has moral weight.

You keep saying this, but haven’t said anything to substantiate it. How is it a moral problem? Is every man entitled to a partner? Even bad men? If bad men are not entitled to partners, then where do we draw the line between good and bad men? And once we’ve sorted that out, how does society go about providing partners to these deserving men? Does society have to provide their ideal (looks/health/age) partner for them, or is any person attached to a vagina sufficient? Does the partner have a choice in this arrangement? If the partner has a choice, then how is society going to ensure that no deserving man gets repeatedly rejected? And in all of this, are women entitled to partners, too? What about people (of any gender) who aren’t straight? What about polyamorous people? Is there any solution out there that doesn’t involve forcing people to be with someone they’d rather not be with?

A problem that has no moral solution cannot be a moral problem.

Zola
Zola
5 years ago

I think children need to be taught at a young age that life isn’t fair. A lot of incels I know were sheltered as children and given everything they wanted. When they grew up, they had to deal with the reality that you cant always get what you want.
Most incels I have met are also not very attractive and are very picky and shallow. They somehow believe that they deserve a beautiful girlfriend, even though they have poor hygiene and an even poorer personality.
I am sorry but if you wont settle for anything less than perfection in another, you are going to end up with nothing in the end. And I will never feel sorry for you

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

1. Why are you so ready to believe that, against their own testimony, it is within the reasonable power of male incels to become sexually desirable? Isn’t this time to bow to the ‘lived experience’ of the people you are talking too, rather than talking over them and presenting your own pet just world theory of how it all works (parallels here to mansplaining, whitesplaining and so on – this is how it feels!’ Not to mention just the sheer common sense nature that, well, since sexual attractiveness clearly isn’t distributed equally, those at the bottom of the pile might go without for a long time.

The biggest issue with the vast majority of so-called “incels” that I’ve encountered online is a staggering lack of self-awareness.

I suspect I may be repeating points I’ve already made elsewhere in this discussion, but while it is undoubtedly true that physical attractiveness isn’t distributed equally, there are plenty of ways you can compensate. In all seriousness, if you asked the women here whether they’d prepare a six-foot-five Adonis with a massive cock or someone much more conventional-looking (or even considered “ugly”) who was also genuinely charming, witty, interesting and a good listener, I suspect a very substantial number would pick option two. Especially if they were considering a longer-term relationship than just a casual one-night fling.

But the problem with a great many “incels” is that even to people who have absolutely no idea what they look or sound like, they come across online as profoundly unattractive. They’re whiny, they obsess about things that no normal person cares two hoots about (wrist circumference???!!!!??), they regard women either with undisguised contempt or as mysterious and unknowable Others instead of fellow human beings, and they concoct absurd theories to “explain” things in ways that don’t rebound upon their own inadequacies.

You’re generally stuck with the looks that your parents bequeathed to you, but there’s no reason on earth why you can’t work on other traits. I suspect the 25-year-old me was pretty much unrecognisable from the 15-year-old me, because my reaction to a lack of dating success wasn’t to blame “cunts” and “bitches”, it was to take a long, hard, laceratingly self-critical look at the personality that I presented to the world, and worked incredibly hard to change the traits that clearly were giving off the wrong vibes. And it obviously worked: despite not changing my personal appearance at all (aside from a brief flirtation with contact lenses instead of glasses that I soon abandoned), my sex life in the last twenty years has been unrecognisably improved from what it was like in the ten years before that. And of course my social life too, as sex for me isn’t a separate issue from normal human interaction – as an absolute bare minimum, I have to actually like the person I’m with. (You’d think this was obvious, but apparently not).

But you can’t even get to first base without acknowledging that you almost certainly bear some responsibility – and very possibly quite a big responsibility – for your lack of dating success. Some of these people are complaining about this while simultaneously admitting that they’ve barely so much as talked to a woman, which is a bit like complaining that you’re starving while refusing to go and buy food (possibly because you might have to talk to an actual woman behind the counter, and ewww cooties).

2. With that aside, why doesn’t their suffering matter? I don’t think the vast majority of incels think that they should have women forced to sleep with them. But its certainly true that their problem deserves moral consideration, in that their suffering has moral weight.

If the “solution” to their “problem” involves non-consensual sex, then there’s nothing moral about it. You don’t alleviate suffering by arranging for someone else to suffer – especially since on the scale of suffering it’s generally accepted that being forced to have sex against your will is rather worse than not having sex at all.

Before you judge, think of what you’d say if you were talking to a black, overweight, and brainy woman who because of the afmorementioned traits wasn’t able to find a mate. I imagine you wouldn’t support forcing men to sleep with her, but equally I don’t think your response to her suffering would be ITS OWN OWN FAULT I WAS BLACK ONCE NOW IM FINE GOD SO ENTITLED RAPE RAPE RAPPPEEE.

It would depend entirely on how she described her problem. If she was incredibly whiny and entitled about it, and seemed to genuinely believe that she should have her own private sex slave to alleviate it regardless of what the man actually thought, my sympathy would be roughly zero. But I’ve never actually encountered anyone like that.

Indeed, can you link to a checkable example of someone behaving online in the way that you’ve just described, so I can have a look at the context? In fact, could you match me link for link if I was to do the equivalent with white male “incels”? I think we both know the answer to that one already.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

A lot of physical attractiveness actually can be obtained. Much of it is basic hygiene and grooming. Wash your hair. Get regular haircuts including trims if you have long hair. Keep clean shaven, or if you have a beard keep it trimmed and clean. Wear clothes that fit well and are somewhat stylish. There are a lot of inexpensive retail chains so it doesn’t even take that much money. If you do have the money, many department stores have personal shoppers on staff. Enlist a female relative to help you if you’re worried you can’t make good choices.

I’m not saying that paying attention to your looks is necessary to be a good or worthy person. I’m not even saying it’s impossible to find a partner if you don’t care about them. I’m just saying, if you’re going to whine about being unattractive, it is possible to change at least some of that. Very few beautiful people are beautiful 100% naturally. Most put effort into it and anyone can do that if they choose to make it a priority. Because a lot of it really is cosmetic.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

I forget who said it first, but the solution to the not-so-involuntary celibacy of “incels” is very, very simple:

If you want to be loved, be lovable.

Really. That’s all.

It’s not even terribly complicated to do: Make an effort to look your best. Be clean. Be healthy (or as healthy as you can be). Smell nice. Dress as well as your budget allows. Cultivate a pleasant personality. Do work that pays a decent wage and corresponds to your aptitudes. Feed your intellect. Have interests and hobbies (and no, that doesn’t mean “frequenting forums where assholes congregate to complain about what bitches and sluts all the women are”). Get fresh air and sunshine daily. Learn to converse pleasantly — not just to get laid, but simply to share a word with someone else once in a while. If you don’t know what else to talk about, the weather will do. Learn to love life, whatever yours may be like. Don’t worry about getting laid — it will happen when it happens, and not a minute sooner. If sex is your top priority, ur doin it rong. Nobody ever died for lack of it. And nobody is an evil person for just saying no to it, either.

Lisa
Lisa
5 years ago

Upbringing counts. here is an interesting article that might show some light on these attitudes:

Attitudes and Outcomes of Sex Ed: The US vs. the Netherlands
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/29920-attitudes-and-outcomes-of-sex-ed-the-us-vs-the-netherlands

Snippets (the last one is a doozy):
“I reached out to Schalet and asked her to walk me through her research. She told me, “Before the sexual revolution, there was a lot of emphasis on [the negative aspects of sex]. So why did that stay in the United States? I think one piece is the fact that, for the Dutch, they applied a concept that had existed before the sexual revolution, mainly that of having a courtship through the teenage period.”

“In the U.S., I think because of different ideas about the individual and a certain kind of concept of individualism, there’s a lot more ambivalence about whether or not young people at 14,15,16 can form love, whether they should. And so therefore sexuality remains this sort of unanchored force; it’s not contained in some ways within the context of an established sexual relationship.”

“Many “Purity Balls” resemble the traditional father-daughter dance. The only difference is that purity balls end with an exchange of vows between father and daughter (the daughters pledge their purity to the fathers, and promise to remain chaste until marriage). In some cases, girls as young as five are encouraged to attend. This community often gravitates toward the idea that fathers must protect their daughters from the dirty, horny boys who surround them.”

[talking about a TV show] “But they way they give their daughter sex education is appalling… it’s all about how boys are going to use her. They make the daughter, who’s in a very loving relationship, feel so bad about [sex]. It’s really interesting, because… if some sort of sex happens, the girl is put in the position of disappointing the parents.”

“Schalet explained, “There’s a real gender component there, and that’s also where the Dutch, I think, do things differently. They leave room for boys to think of themselves as romantic, of having feelings. And it’s not that American boys aren’t romantic, it’s that everything in their culture tells them that they shouldn’t be.”

That last snippet is particularly revealing.

So right from the beginning US kids are taught this this is a ‘war’. Girls (backed by their parents, church, etc) must ‘protect’ themselves from ‘dirty sex’. Boys are trained to just seek the sex and it is ‘not manly’ to have feelings and want a romantic relationship. That S**hate comment I posted earlier was a textbook example of that attitude.

This is a lose-lose situation. It damages females sexual confidence and freedom to enjoy themselves sexually, even within a relationship. It damages males ability to form relationships, that being romantic and wanting a relationship is (amazingly) actually unmanly.

If you are training kids this rubbish from an early age it is not surprising that some (of both sexes) get permanently damaged for the rest of their lives.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

“Cultivate a pleasant personality.”

I’d be happier with this line if “pleasant personality” wasn’t so incredibly gendered.

Yes, I’m the “bossy” “abrasive” girl, why do you ask…

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

If you are training kids this rubbish from an early age it is not surprising that some (of both sexes) get permanently damaged for the rest of their lives.

My wife and I are very much following the Dutch model when it comes to our kids – particularly where our daughter is concerned. There’s a vast amount of dangerous misinformation out there that badly needs countering, and while we’re not naïve enough to think that they’re both going to come running to us with questions, I don’t want them ever to be ignorant of reliable resources.

New Poster
New Poster
5 years ago

This whole post is just outrage bait. You know that Sluthate is a shock site, right? It traffics in extreme views and trolling to get a rise out of people. You might want to mention that.

There is a real discussion we could be having about the role of attractiveness in socialization. But I guess it’s easier to just say that anyone who thinks looks matter is just a murder-supporting, rape-apologizing, sexually-frustrated misogynist. It’s easier to get your page views up that way, at least. Sophisticated discussion is hard.

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

But I guess it’s easier to just say that anyone who thinks looks matter is just a murder-supporting, rape-apologizing, sexually-frustrated misogynist.

Please link to a post in this thread that actually says that.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Sluthate being a “Shock Site” would be more credible if there were fewer guys who took it seriously and supported the philosophies expounded upon there.

New poster, for someone who mentions sophisticated discussion, you’re really quick to create a straw-David in your post.

No one here has ever said that merely “thinking looks matter” makes you “a murder-supporting, rape-apologizing, sexually-frustrated misogynist.” In fact, there have been a lot of people in this thread saying that they find different appearances appealing or not appealing, but that they also find certain behaviors appealing or not appealing as well… with ‘incels’ often displaying very few of the physically unappealing traits but a boatload of the behaviorally unappealing traits.

Hence no one here wanting to touch them with a 32 and a half foot pole.

By your “real discussion about the role of attractiveness in socialization”…

… what do you ultimately hope to prove? Or what is the end result of that discussion? Are you merely interested in the “We need to not systematically discriminate against people who appear unusual* because they are people too” or are you more of the “Women need to stop being shallow, reconsider their preferences, and make sure every man can have relations if he desires them so no one will be involuntarily celibate” type.

Because if you’re the first, then heck yeah, that discussion needs to happen. Not necessarily here, because this is not the headquarters of that particular movement, but I’m sure you can find a place with google to discuss it in great detail! There might even be places that would let you help with activism!

Some people might be cool with having that discussion here.

If it’s the second, you’re not going to have much fun in this place.

If it’s somewhere between the two, Oh Sophisticated One, then feel free to elaborate, but don’t expect everyone to fall over in agreement with your mighty logic.

*I say unusual instead of unattractive, because we have already hit on how there’s a really wide array of attractive or unattractive, but people who look ‘odd’ due to deformities or developmental patterns or illness are legit discriminated against in a multitude of ways, from being people assuming they must be ‘stupid’ or people assuming that they must be ‘mean’ or ‘cursed’ to not being hired because the boss doesn’t want to ‘scare off customers’.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

… that period at the end of the “Are you merely interested” long sentence of long-ness should be a question mark.

New Poster
New Poster
5 years ago

“Please link to a post in this thread that actually says that.”

Fair enough. Here’s some examples from above. You can ctrl+f to find where these are in the thread — go to “Older Comments” if these get buried. Not sure how to quote in this interface, but let’s just do it the old-fashioned way:

“women are always going to be repelled by those who denigrate them as bitches and sluts and trophy fuck objects, who exult over the corpses of innocent victims because they believe blood is the price the world must pay for their pain, who advocate for government-sponsored rape. That’s just downright vile.”

“And let’s not even try to imagine the twisted logic and “moral insanity” which could justify the kind of dehumanization and hatred of women (or just other people in general) that is common in these circles and which might even lead some guys to idolize mass murderers.”

“Incels like to … to focus solely on their own personal feelings, sexual frustration and/or festering bitterness.”

Some of these posters mention looks in a hand-waving gesturing (as in, yes, looks matter but let’s focus on how you’re the problem). But, more importantly, the post or article that we’re commenting on suggests that Sluthate is a place where incels who support rape and murder meet to blame everyone but themselves. This is bait for people to shock people and make them feel self-righteous. And it’s a flattening of what is an important issue: How attractiveness leads to different social and psychological outcomes. Rather than caricaturing one view by looking at a shock site. There’s actually real effects that your (largely uncontrollable) level of attractiveness has. And it’s discussed by more than just incels. Almost the entire discipline of Psychology agrees that’s looks play a huge role in socialization — both sexual or otherwise. But, no, tell me about how incels just need a personality makeover — or they just need to comb their hair.

Viscaria
Viscaria
5 years ago

You know that Sluthate is a shock site, right? It traffics in extreme views and trolling to get a rise out of people.

I never know what to do with the “they’re trying to upset you on purpose” defense for awful things. Do you think that saying terrible things about women that you don’t necessarily believe specifically so that you can hurt women is somehow not misogynistic?

Not that I think that’s actually true in this instance, anyway. Pretty sure they mean every word.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

New Poster…

You were asked to find examples of posters saying that “Anyone who cares about looks is a misogynist”.

You found posters saying “These misogynists are kind of vile for these reasons”.

Could you please try again?

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Viscaria,

As much as I love The Onion, I blame The Onion.

Also, I think there’s a tendency to assume that if you make people upset or make people believe your lie is true, that you must be better/smarter/more clever than the people who got upset/didn’t ‘get it’/thought it was true.

…which isn’t really true.

Also, there’s a huge contemporary misunderstanding of satire coupled with a cultural acceptance of the “but it was satire” excuse.

For something to be good satire, it pretty much has to take the opposite stance to show the ridiculousness of that position. Where things like sluthate fail is because a lot of the people on that site do seem to share the same positions as their posts, and then they apply hyperbole.

So, instead of satirically trying to show how ridiculous the position is, they’re just making their beliefs sound worse than they are.

It’s weird.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

*there should have been an even in that penultimate sentence. Beliefs sound even worse than they are.

They’re already pretty lousy beliefs.

sparky
sparky
5 years ago

LOL, New Poster. You just disproved your own argument.

No one is objecting to people discussing and dissecting the role physical appearance plays in how a person is treated in society. But that’s not what incels are doing.

more importantly, the post or article that we’re commenting on suggests that Sluthate is a place where incels who support rape and murder meet to blame everyone but themselves.

…Yes, that is exactly what sl*thate.com is. That’s why it’s being mocked on a blog that mocks misogynists.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

But, more importantly, the post or article that we’re commenting on suggests that Sluthate is a place where incels who support rape and murder meet to blame everyone but themselves.

I’ve browsed through SlutHate quite extensively. They do meet to talk about how much they hate women and how awful women are for having standards and how terribly unfair it is that women who aren’t HB 8s, 9s, and 10s can sometimes get laid. They also have celebrated men who committed mass murder because they couldn’t get laid enough. They have also argued that the government should pay conventionally attractive women to have sex with incels. They have argued that mass murders wouldn’t happen if women weren’t so damn picky. They also pretend that their looks are the problem when the reality is that very few of them are ugly; most are average or better in the looks department. So, with that in mind, it is absolutely fair to suggest that they could improve their chances by getting a personality makeover and taking better care with their grooming.

beneteau1977
5 years ago

New Poster, people are responding to the actual rhetoric posted on sites like Sluthate. I know you say it’s a “shock” site, but that doesn’t change the fact that it puts those statements out there, and real people internalize them.

There was a poster above who was flat out saying things like “all women are evil whores who fuck Chads instead of me.” Then there was another guy who was playing the “just sayin'” game while suggesting that women who won’t sleep with certain men are morally reprehensible. Those kinds of statements are extreme, and will provoke extreme reactions.

I can’t speak for everybody here, but what irritates me the most with the conversation about attractiveness that incel defenders want to have is that it revolves around women denying men sex. Any suggestion that women enjoy (or don’t enjoy) sex, or have any feelings about who they sleep with at all, or might have a hard time finding sex and feel unattractive themselves, is brushed aside.

And this completely ignores the fact that women are far more likely to experience negative outcomes in life for being perceived as unattractive. Women – not men – are told practically from birth that their entire worth is bound up in being “pretty.” Women – not men – are continually dismissed and ridiculed based on their appearance. Women – not men – are socialized to look past appearances when choosing a partner.

That doesn’t mean that physical attractiveness has no bearing on men’s life outcomes, but if we’re being honest, society is far more forgiving of unattractive men than unattractive women. And this is coming from an unattractive man.

New Poster
New Poster
5 years ago

“Sluthate being a “Shock Site” would be more credible if there were fewer guys who took it seriously and supported the philosophies expounded upon there.”

” Pretty sure they mean every word.”

There’s literally a thread titled “fuck Lubitz this is what a true slayer is like.” Slayer is the term for highly-attractive male. You click the thread and it’s pictures of Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre. Most of what goes on Sluthate is just pointless shock material. There’s another thread where someone simply asks “if your girlfriend refuses sex, would you beat her?” And posters respond with other highly violent alternatives that are so outlandish they’re ridiculous. This is the context for all of this. There’s a central view that motivates this: Looks and status affect your social and sexual success. But the post there take it to ridiculous extremes to get a rise out of people.

“In fact, there have been a lot of people in this thread saying that they find different appearances appealing or not appealing, but that they also find certain behaviors appealing or not appealing as well… with ‘incels’ often displaying very few of the physically unappealing traits but a boatload of the behaviorally unappealing traits.”

How do you know what anonymous posters look like? Some posters will post a face shot, but you really don’t get much of a feel for how they come across in person. And from what I see, they’re not exactly gorgeous — pretty average at best. It’s just a sad fact that people get judged based on their looks. I can’t tell what someone’s personality is actually like — I can’t get in their head and learn what they’re thinking. We all have to go off the visual clues we get from the person. And if someone gives off more attractive visual clues — then we tend to think they’re a better person. On an internet forum you can divorce their picture from the text they write, and chalk up someone’s number of “physically unappealing traits” and “behaviorally unappealing traits.” But in actual social situations, someone’s looks tend to make their personality appear one way or another. It’s the “halo effect.”

“Oh Sophisticated One, then feel free to elaborate, but don’t expect everyone to fall over in agreement with your mighty logic.”

Hey I’m a simple guy with simple tastes. But there are people who actually study this, and one of the main results they find is that looks play a largely unacknowledged role in both social and sexual situations. This research is published in major journals like Science and Annual Review of Psychology. I’ll give just one psychologist’s view here:

“In universal and sometimes complicated patterns, higher physical attractiveness will continue to be beneficial and lower physical attractiveness will continue to be detrimental to those individuals whose appearance differ correspondingly. People of both genders and of all ages will continue to pursue higher and higher levels of physical attractiveness, often with unaffordable and negative consequences…. Physical attractiveness will hold its position as it triggers, exerts, and controls phenomenon that is powerful and pervasive despite the fact that people seldom see it, seldom recognize it, and very frequently deny it” (from Power and Paradox of Physical Attractiveness 2006)

The article could have put Sluthate in the context of the “unaffordable and negative consequences” that low attractiveness individual face when faced with higher attractive people. Particular as these power discrepancies occur in a world where people “seldom recognize” and “very frequently deny” the role of looks. This would have been a more productive discussion. You’re right that this forum probably isn’t the place for this discussion. The sensation way the issue has been set up by the article is counterproductive.

That was my whole point.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@New Poster:

This whole post is just outrage bait. You know that Sluthate is a shock site, right? It traffics in extreme views and trolling to get a rise out of people. You might want to mention that.

Encyclopedia Dramatica is a shock site. Most of 4chan is a shock site. r/SpaceDicks is a shock site. This is just a forum.where the commenters hold extreme views. There’s a difference.

(list of comments that supposedly call people who simply think looks matter a bunch of awful things)

Not one of your comments supports your assertion that people here are saying “that anyone who thinks looks matter is just a murder-supporting, rape-apologizing, sexually-frustrated misogynist.” We call them murder-supporting because they support murder (Andreas Lubitz and Elliot Rodger). We call them rape-apologizing because they support rape (“why is rape bad?”). We call them sexually frustrated because they self-identify as such. We call them misogynists because they are.

This is a pet peeve of mine… pretending that directed criticism of some problematic thing is actually broad criticism of something harmless. No.

There is a real discussion we could be having about the role of attractiveness in socialization.

Ok. But that isn’t the point of this post. Go find somewhere else to have it.

And it’s a flattening of what is an important issue: How attractiveness leads to different social and psychological outcomes.

The OP is not about that, it’s about pointing out the toxicity in the incel community of SlutHate as it pertains to recent events. Insisting we should talk about something else is just derailing.

But, since we’re derailing already…

But, no, tell me about how incels just need a personality makeover — or they just need to comb their hair.

K. Incels just need a personality makeover. Combing their hair probably won’t do much on its own.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@New Poster:

But the post there take it to ridiculous extremes to get a rise out of people.

What, out of completely random folks who happen to stumble on their little forum while surfing the world wide web? Or out of the people who are posting said material? Who is the target, exactly?

You need to learn the difference between purposeful shock humor and actual views that you personally just happen to find extreme.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

I see. Did you miss my point where they’re not actually a bunch of uggos?

There’s literally a thread titled “fuck Lubitz this is what a true slayer is like.” Slayer is the term for highly-attractive male. You click the thread and it’s pictures of Jim Jones and the Jonestown massacre.

…Do you not get the context for that one? They’re praising Jones for being so attractive that he was able to persuade people to commit suicide on a massive scale!* That’s like praising Ted Bundy for being good with the ladies.

There’s another thread where someone simply asks “if your girlfriend refuses sex, would you beat her?” And posters respond with other highly violent alternatives that are so outlandish they’re ridiculous.

And it never occurs to you that the posters there might, uh, actually want to do those things?

This is the context for all of this. There’s a central view that motivates this: Looks and status affect your social and sexual success. But the post there take it to ridiculous extremes to get a rise out of people.

Ooh, ooh, ooh! I think that I get what your real point is. It’s okay for men to make jokes about violently beating women for turning down sex as long as those men are convinced that they’re ugly and that their looks are the cause of all their misfortunes. Furthermore, making people mad and scared will clearly motivate society to help correct biases against unattractive people instead of causing everyone to shun SlutHaters like the twisted misogynists that they are.

How do you know what anonymous posters look like? Some posters will post a face shot, but you really don’t get much of a feel for how they come across in person. And from what I see, they’re not exactly gorgeous — pretty average at best. It’s just a sad fact that people get judged based on their looks.

Because there’s a section on SlutHate called RateMe? Where they post photos of themselves? That are sometimes full body shots? And I, as a woman, think that most of them are average or better in the looks department?

Honestly, I think that the guys like you and like the SlutHaters who pick themselves and other men apart, pointing out and making up minuscule, insignificant flaws ares the ones doing the real harm. You’re trying to create exacting beauty standards for men, and you’re tearing down the self-esteem of men who are already insecure about their looks.

The article could have put Sluthate in the context of the “unaffordable and negative consequences” that low attractiveness individual face when faced with higher attractive people. Particular as these power discrepancies occur in a world where people “seldom recognize” and “very frequently deny” the role of looks. This would have been a more productive discussion. You’re right that this forum probably isn’t the place for this discussion. The sensation way the issue has been set up by the article is counterproductive.

Oh, “unaffordable and negative consequences that low attractiveness individuals face when faced with higher attractive people” like committing mass murder or supporting other “low attractiveness individuals” who do? Oh my, those poor wittle wooby destroyers of worlds!

*The Jonestown massacre probably wasn’t actually mass suicide but in fact mass murder. This would also disprove their claim that men would less violent if only women weren’t so damn picky!

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

Oh! And they do support rape. (massive tw)

http://sluthate.com/w/Rape

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Literally nobody is arguing that people aren’t judged on their appearance. That doesn’t mean that you have to be conventionally attractive to find a partner as incels claim. There’s a difference between individual and group behavior.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

Seconding WWTH.

Viscaria
Viscaria
5 years ago

I see. Did you miss my point where they’re not actually a bunch of uggos?

New Poster also skipped right over my point about how it doesn’t matter if what is posted on SlutHate is meant in earnest or not, it is gross either way and the men who post there are assholes either way. I think New Poster is just not really big on getting points.

sevenofmine
5 years ago

I seem to be missing a step between “they’re saying vile shit to get a rise out of people” and “that makes it OK for them to say that shit”. Can someone help me out?

mcjuliek
mcjuliek
5 years ago

It’s like a Turing test. If you can’t tell the difference between a sincere hate site and a “for the lulz” hate site, it might as well be a real hate site.

New Poster
New Poster
5 years ago

“New Poster also skipped right over my point”

Hey, I’m a popular guy, and I’ve got a lot on my plate.

“it doesn’t matter if what is posted on SlutHate is meant in earnest or not, it is gross either way and the men who post there are assholes either way”

Yeah, it kinda matters because you’re tilting at windmills. There are posters on the site who have gifs of guys masturbating in their signature. This is the site you’re calling out. Way to go. I’m sure they have egg on their face now.

“They’re praising Jones for being so attractive that he was able to persuade people to commit suicide on a massive scale!*”

That thread is tagged with “Shitposting is Everything.” Do you know what shitposting is? It’s spamming controversial material that doesn’t add anything to a discussion. The OP included pictures of the dead at Jonestown. The one poster on that thread who didn’t get it and had to ask was horrified to learn about the event. This is the misogyny that you’re exposing?

“And it never occurs to you that the posters there might, uh, actually want to do those things?”

No, because it was a shitpost to get attention. The thread includes an eighteenth-century drawing of heads on pikes. It’s incredibly poor taste, but that’s the point. If you want to call these poster out on being obscene or sensational, I’m totally with you. But, as evidence that misogyny is everywhere, this is pretty weak.

Sluthate comes from the former puahate which was about the pitfalls of pick-up artist tactics. PUAs tried to convince men that certain behaviors or thought processes are what attracted women. Puahate formed to mock this assumption and argue that things like looks and status are what play the main role in attraction. If you want to talk about Sluthate, you need to acknowledge that this is the main motivation for the site. If you just want to talk about the shitposting, you’re not really doing much.

KSRay
KSRay
5 years ago

Whether they mean it or not, they’re assholes. Whether they care or not if we call them assholes, they should be called assholes. Otherwise, you’re basically saying their behavior is acceptable (the standard you walk past, and all that). Is that what you’re saying? Because you seem to be trying really hard to discourage people from saying anything negative about them. Why would you do that?

sevenofmine
5 years ago

If you want to talk about Sluthate, you need to acknowledge that this is the main motivation for the site.

No, we don’t. I mean we get that it’s about hating PUAs but acting like they’re performing some kind of public service is breathtakingly dishonest. They’ve just exchanged one vile, ignorant, toxic ideology for another.

If you just want to talk about the shitposting, you’re not really doing much.

We’re talking about what we wish to talk about. Because we have that right. It doesn’t need to meet your arbitrary standard of doing enough.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

I thought PUAHate was started by guys for whom PUA didn’t work and who were angry about not getting laid. If the site is genuinely about exposing the bogus tactics of PUA, why was it renamed SlutHate? That sounds like it’s just shifting the blame to women. And don’t try to tell us it’s some kind of ironic shitname and they don’t really mean it.

What is the point of “shitposting”, anyway? Is it so people can say extremely horrible, hurtful things without having to own up to them? Because that’s a form of entitlement right there: “I get to say these awful things and not care about how it affects other people.” In effect, you’re saying nobody can ever be held accountable for what they say or do, because the shitposting defense magically absolves them. Hey, at most they’re just being tasteless!

This isn’t a case of a bunch of boys having a private farting contest, out of earshot of Mom and teachers. These things are being posted on the internet, where anyone from Elliott Rodger to the 13-year-old girl across the street can see them and uncritically absorb their messages.

It really doesn’t matter whether people on SlutHate are bored, looking for attention, don’t understand what they’re saying, or are genuinely shitweasels. If they’re amplifying misogyny, they’re perpetuating it. Intent doesn’t magically render people immune to the effects of these posts.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

No, because it was a shitpost to get attention. The thread includes an eighteenth-century drawing of heads on pikes. It’s incredibly poor taste, but that’s the point. If you want to call these poster out on being obscene or sensational, I’m totally with you. But, as evidence that misogyny is everywhere, this is pretty weak.

I’ll take it as evidence that misogyny is all over SlutHate. Seriously, though, how does fantasizing about putting their girlfriends’ heads on pikes for withholding sex (and yes, that is exactly what they are doing, “shitposting” or anything else) draw sympathy for their plight? All that this does is show me exactly why they’re not getting laid, and it’s got absolutely nothing to do with their looks, which, for the third time, are not the problem because they are not bad-looking guys.

GardenGallivant
GardenGallivant
5 years ago

Jigar thought his wrists were a hair over 6 inches thick. Or more likely in circumference. Yet equestrian’s consider 6-8 inch circumference of cannon bone per 1,000 lb good enough leg bone for a riding horse. Given good conformation otherwise this is enough bone for flat work as it allows a faster stride swing at speed, but the 8″ is best for jumping.

What do wrists of a pilot or other white collar worker support that requires greater girth than the leg bone that supports the impact of the running stride of a horse? ( Cannon bones are the ones that a horse tends to break, or bow tendons in racing)’

They certainly have distorted body image problems.

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

Racist jokes, when allowed to go unchecked, create a permissive environment for racists that tells them their race-hate is normal and acceptable. I imagine an environment full of misogynist “shitposting” would have a similar effect of normalising and strengthening hate towards women. Even if “shitposters” aren’t personally misogynists(BIG if), their actions likely strengthen and create more misogyny in others who share that environment.

The “they’re just shitposting” excuse doesn’t get them off the hook, not at all.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

I don’t know if this thread is old enough for my post to count as a “necro” but this is an interesting (to me at least) viewpoint on autism. I knew autistic people were particularly desired in some areas (such as nuclear safety) but I hadn’t heard of this unit before. Makes sense though.

https://www.facebook.com/IsraeliMossadNews/posts/756333911141528

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

New Poster | April 1, 2015 at 4:17 pm
That thread is tagged with “Shitposting is Everything.” Do you know what shitposting is? It’s spamming controversial material that doesn’t add anything to a discussion. The OP included pictures of the dead at Jonestown. The one poster on that thread who didn’t get it and had to ask was horrified to learn about the event. This is the misogyny that you’re exposing?

Yeah, it is. They’re posting terrible shit that’s really fucking cruel and offensive, just for the sake of it being cruel and offensive. How juvenile do you have to be?

As I mentioned in another thread: Schrödinger’s Douchebag.

“A person who does something offensive, and then decides if they were joking depending on the reaction to the offensive thing.”

I’ve added a new excuse to the growing list of “I was just joking!” and “It’s satire!”.

“It’s just shitposting!”

You can joke around/make satire/shitpost without being a disgustingly nauseating fuck soirée.

Why do they need to say terrible things about other people to joke around or get a laugh? Is their sense of humor that limited that jokes about killing women and putting their heads on pikes is the only thing that can make them laugh?

And then these fucknuggets get pissy when a feminist makes a joke about “Male Tears” (and no, it doesn’t mean semen. That was made up by pissbaby MRAs who decided that we can’t have a (pretty fucking harmless) joke at their expense while they joke about raping and murdering us).

TL;DR: “Shitposting” doesn’t absolve them of jack chicken shit. It’s still fucking gross and if their sense of humor needs to involve murder fantasies of women who “don’t put out”, then they’re gross. If you feel the need to “defend” their juvenile posts of things that they can use to exploit people’s fear and pain for a quick lulz, you’re gross too. Flounce and stick it Schrödinger’s Douchebag.

NumbnutsTipline
NumbnutsTipline
5 years ago

Ahh, sluthate. This isn’t the first time they’ve pulled stupid crap like this. Earlier this month they pulled a “raid” on the ‘feminist pokemon forum’ called Kiwi Farms. Which is a website devoted to mocking internet weirdos. The raid went like this:
1: Sluthaters show up, demand thread be removed.
2: Sluthaters mocked.
3: Sluthaters out their entire userbase as pedophiles.
4: Sluthaters triggered by posters of the movie “Cop Dog”.
5: Sluthater’s declare victory, run away.
Start of “raid”: https://kiwifar.ms/threads/sluthate-com.6192/page-36

Turkey Burger
Turkey Burger
4 years ago

I’m an incel, basically. I did manage to lose my virginity 2 years ago at the age of 29, but it was also almost 2 years ago since I last had sex.

I am trying to channel my anger into becoming more desirable; but I completely empathize with the feelings of the members of sluthate.com.

I would ask that people not judge these incels, but instead try to take what they say as legitimate. You may not think they are right with their world-view, but these thoughts didn’t come from nowhere; they are a reflection of these peoples’ lives.

If someone is hurting, try to understand their pain rather than judge them. That’s what I think…

katz
katz
4 years ago

I would ask that people not judge these incels, but instead try to take what they say as legitimate.

Dude, one of these guys literally tried to proposition his own mom.

Kootiepatra
4 years ago

@Turkey Burger – As someone who is herself single and wishes she wasn’t—and who has spent a lot of adulthood in that condition—it is okay for people to feel lonely. It is okay to be sad about not having a partner. It is okay to have sexual desires and it’s okay to be disappointed if those aren’t being satisfied in the ways that the lonely person would like.

But none of those feelings justify hating an entire gender (or even just the attractive ones, anyway), and none of those feelings justify throwing giant temper tantrums on the internet. None of them can be blamed on other people. None of them are a license for real or threatened violence. None of them even remotely excuse cheering for someone who killed a whole bunch of people.

It’s not that we refuse to empathize with lonely guys. We refuse to condone destructive behavior, even if it’s coming from lonely guys.