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Internet incels celebrate Andreas Lubitz, the alleged killer co-pilot of Germanwings Flight 9525, as a "legitimate SLAYER" and an "incel hero"

The New Incel Hero: Neither an incel nor a hero
The New Incel Hero: Neither an incel nor a hero

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Sluthate’s “shitty advice” forum, devoted to discussing such high-minded topics as “Do fat women have dirtier vaginas?” and “why is rape bad,” is a haven for embittered “incels” — self-described “involuntary celibates” — who’ve convinced themselves that they are too objectively unattractive and un-alpha to attract attention from the cruel and superficial “sluts” of the world — a category that seems to include all the women they find attractive.

Back when the forum was known as PUAhate, it was a regular hangout of one especially embittered incel, a young man known as Elliot Rodger, who last year killed six in Isla Vista California, and then himself, in what he called his “Day of Retribution” against women. Many of Sluthate’s regulars, unsurprisingly, have embraced “ER” as a kind of incel martyr.

Now they’ve found a new and improved hero: Andreas Lubitz, the troubled co-pilot who, French officials say, deliberately flew Germanwings Flight 9525 into a mountain in the French Alps.

In a topic entitled BREAKING: Co-pilot was incel and crashed the plane!!!, Sluthate regulars have embraced Lubitz as “one of them” — and are enthusiastically celebrating his alleged mass murder as the possible beginning of a “Beta uprising.”

“New high score, and in a much shorter time too,” a commenter calling himself gobman3000 wrote happily. “Damn, legitimate SLAYER.”

Alienfranco was even more enthusiastic:

What a fucking SLAYER.

Did you ever know that you’re my hero? You are the wind beneath my WINGS. …

Why go out with a whimper when you can go out with a BANG? An incel killing 150+ people will make a lot more of an impact than killing 1 asshole or a few assholes.

A large percentage of the 150+ people on that plane were sluts and Chads anyway.

Hopefully all these incel killings get to a point where society will fear autists/incels and give us $2000/month and subsidized prostitution to placate us from killing normalfags.

OmegaKV noted that many of the passengers on the plane “were teenagers who were vacationing,” concluding

This was DEFINITELY an incel motivated plane crash.

He couldn’t take it too see so many good looking and happy teenagers with gfs, experiencing the adolescence he always longed for but never got, so took advantage of the perfect opportunity to kill himself while taking the teenage normalfags with him.

PuaKiller agreed:

Yeah. He definitely knew what he was doing. I can only imagine what he was feeling in that moment. Wow. …

This one is going in the hall of fame!

Largely dismissing the news reports suggesting that Lubitz did, in fact, have a girlfriend, the regulars examined each new picture of the alleged mass murderer that appeared in the media for telltale signs of his incel status.

PJ1 was brutal in his assessment:

-looks like a manlet from his proportions. I’d honestly be surprised if he’s over 5 10

-small frame

-critical balding

-beta face

OldRooster1 agreed:

guy does look like an incel manlet that came to the realization that the status of being a pilot was not enough to overcome his 3.5/10 looks/body.

“Look at that frame, he’s about 60kg soaking wet,” Jigar added. “I’d be surprised if his wrists were a hair over 6 inches thick.”

Still another commenter labeled him a “betafaced framecel” — whatever that is — and “the kind of guy that’s INVISIBLE.”

These are harsh assessments, to be sure, and in some cases seem to have virtually no connection with the photographic evidence, but the Sluthate regulars tend to be equally harsh in their assessments of themselves. Thread-starter Zark_Muckerberg, for example, attaches a sig to each of his posts quantifying his romantic and sexual failures:

gfs: 0
kisses: 0
handjobs: 0
blowjobs: 0
intercourse: 0

Having convinced themselves that they will never be able to have a life equal to that of the world’s “good looking and happy … normalfags,” the Sluthaters feel Lubitz’ pain — or, at least, the pain they imagine he felt.

Flawed Mentat blamed the killings on an uncaring world that didn’t deliver Lubitz  the “good woman” he deserved.

HE did not fire the first shot. Women and Society, blase, branded HIM as non human, invisible, an object of scorn and laughter. So, when it sunk in that all his effort was in vain, there were no good women awaiting him, life was gonna be just as empty, lonely and horrifying as before he even started training as a pilot, well, he probably logically decided to declare war back on the human race, since it was open in its war on him.

ThereIsNoGame agreed:

Just lol @ reddit comments saying how creepy it is that he didn’t think about the lives of all the people he killed.

Yeah, well what about all the people who never gave a fuck about him. He was probably treated like shit over and over again.

Society never looks itself in the mirror when it is to blame.

Don’t treat people like shit and shit wont happen. Why is that so hard to understand? 

He ended his comment with this chilling warning-cum-threat.

looks like more people will need to die until the message is drilled in.

Zygominati directed his ire at a familiar target:

I blame feminism for this. In days gone by pilots would flirt with stewardesses and pinch their arses. They would leave their hotel room ajar for layover shenanigans. Now they are bus drivers in the sky that can’t even take a shit. This incel was probably sold a dream and after countless hours of flight time realised there is nothing there.

Meanwhile, the few Sluthaters who didn’t utterly dismiss the news reports of Lubitz having a girlfriend seized on the reports that the two had broken up — and blamed the girlfriend for “cucking” him. As Patriarch put it,

If its true that his girlfriend cucked or dumped him, just imagine how smug this entitled shitcunt must feel like right now. Looking at him, she was a 4 at best but now she gets her own little fairytale drama story and she gets to go on TV and talk about how awful she feels and how she never expected this to happen. In the aftermath, a bunch of whiteknights will whiteknight her into oblivion and probably donate a million € to her fundme so she can learn to deal with this tragedy…. Fucking feminist shitcunt society

It goes without saying that all of these embittered rants are based almost entirely on projection. We know very little about Lubitz, or what might have motivated him to (allegedly) crash the plane, killing 149 innocent human beings and himself.

While news reports suggest that he had suffered from depression and from some other mental illnesses as yet unnamed, these revelations raise more questions than they answer. Depression can certainly contribute to suicide, but mass murder? Mentally ill people are more likely to be victims of violence than victimizers.

While it seems clear that Lubitz was not literally an “incel” — he apparently did have a girlfriend —  it’s certainly possible that he crashed the plane because he was upset over a breakup with that girlfriend, or angry at women in general.

That’s not a conclusion we can draw based on looking at Lubitz’s “waist-hip-ratio” or the size of his wrists. It’s a possibility we can raise based on our understanding of how murder/suicides unfold in the real world.

As I pointed out yesterday, murder/suicide is overwhelmingly a male crime, and the victims are often wives, girlfriends or exes. Breakups often trigger rage in men, and a few take this rage out on the women they feel have wronged them. Or, in extreme cases, on women in general. The intended targets of Elliot Rodger’s rampage were what the “spoiled, stuck-up, blonde slut[s]” in a local sorority. (Luckily, he was barred at the door and his plan collapsed.)

But even if Lubitz was driven by “incel rage” or something much like it, it’s worth pointing out that this rage is  based on bullshit. Elliot Rodger was not objectively unattractive; his problems with women came from within, from a mixture of embittered entitlement, self-hatred and an assortment of other psychological demons.

Similarly, the rage of Sluthate’s incels is driven not by the actual behavior of women in the real world but by their fucked-up ideas about women — and themselves. Sluthaters hate themselves as much as they hate “sluts,” and project their own hyper-critical assessments of their own looks onto the women they think are perpetually judging them and finding them wanting. Ironically, they themselves view women with the same hyper-critical eyes, dismissing all but a handful of young, conventionally attractive women as “fugly hambeasts” and the like.

Sluthate reinforces a poisonous and supremely self-defeating way of looking at the world. Whether or not Lubitz was driven by “incel rage,” I think we have every reason to worry that Sluthate and other internet forums devoted to “incels” may be breeding more “heroes” like Elliot Rodger and, possibly, Andreas Lubitz.

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Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

P.S. What GrumpyOldMangina said.

M.
M.
5 years ago

Unrelatedly, it turns out that Tucker Carlson’s brother is as much of a misogynistic dumbass as Tucker is.

[TF2 Heavy] Not big surprise. [/TF2 Heavy]

Though I have to give him school playground creativity points for “Labia face” (what?).

Citizen Justin
5 years ago

I was on FSTDT just now and to the surprise of no-one here who doesn’t already know, Poxy’s got in on this as well.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

@Jarnsaxa
I would give my right foot for real life to be like that. There’s been several times where I worked up the courage to ask for reassurance (not specifically mentioning depression though, just “a difficult time”) only to be told “Can’t you do it yourself…?” or along those lines. Or they’ve looked at me like I’m weird.

suffrajitsu
suffrajitsu
5 years ago

He’s most likely not even incel and they’re still cheering him as their own? What the fuck? And his rampage isn’t even solely against women (unlike Elliot Rodger’s would have been if it had gone to plan). Fuck, there isn’t even any evidence that it was about women. These clowns really do just glorify any kind of male violence because it makes appeals to their own pathetic masturbatory revenge fantasies.

Also, what the hell is it with the recent wave of commenters “politely asking” what’s wrong with Sluthate?

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

@suffra
I think they’re just low intensity sealions JAQing off.

TheCatFromOuterSpace
TheCatFromOuterSpace
5 years ago

Not that it makes any difference at all, but just for the sake of completeness…

Lubitz may have been “60kg soaking wet” because he was a fairly successful amateur distance runner (à la the photo above). According to the just about every French newspaper I’ve read (I live in France and the French press are all over this) he either won or placed in many smaller-local events over the years and was a member of his local athletics club. He’d run a bunch of half-marathons. His girlfriend (ex or otherwise) was also a runner. He apparently finished the Frankfurt half-marathon in 2010 in 1h48 which, while never going to win him a spot in the German Olympic team, ain’t slow either.

The dude was not only clearly not “incel”, but he was also the sporty type, an additional data point that really, really, reaaaaaaaaaalllllllly doesn’t fit into the narrative that these self-declared incels are spinning. After all, don’t jocks get all the girls?

As I said, this makes no difference to the over arching story. We don’t know what caused Lubitz to kill himself and 150 innocent people. There’s a high probability we may never know. But, should we ever know exactly what was going through his mind, I’m confident that forcing women to give up their sexual agency is not a solution to stopping tragedies like this in the future.

suffrajitsu
suffrajitsu
5 years ago

@M.: I don’t know about that. I totally agree that gender roles and shallowness suck in general and feminists would be the best allies for people who actually cared about men and wanted to do away with toxic masculinity. But “incels” only hate shallowness and rigid gender roles that affect men, specifically, only those gender roles and cultural expectations that hurt their chances of getting laid. They’re a-ok with upholding harsh cultural expectations of female beauty and behavior as well as double standards that benefit them, like the idea that it’s okay for men to be dominant or violent, or that men are entitled to sex, or that men can cheat on their girlfriends because it’s alpha and women who have sex with anyone other than the alpha are sluts…the list goes on and on.

If Andreas Lubitz was found tomorrow to have had an active sex life, they’d use him as an example of how women love handsome, violent, abusive alphas and are too stupid and shallow to like “gentlemen” like them, even though they were cheering on his violence just now.

About the height thing: okay, most straight women I know have stated they prefer tall men, but it’s ludicrous to compare the “stigma” against short men with the incredibly unrealistic standards for women’s body size. I’ve used this example before, but Tom Cruise is 5′ 7” and no one asks him how it feels to be a sex symbol despite being a short man. Christina Hendricks, meanwhile, gets asked *all the time* about her curvy body and how it’s *so* different from skinny Hollywood norms! Hell, there’s a popular false urban legend about Marilyn Monroe having been a size 14, even though she had a 22-inch waist (in fairness, her dress size was inflated a little because her hips and bust were wide, but 22 inches was model proportions even in the ’50s). How often do people talk about James Dean having been 5′ 8”?

suffrajitsu
suffrajitsu
5 years ago

* I meant “anyone other than the incel.”

tedthefed
tedthefed
5 years ago

I think people are slightly missing the point by saying, “Oh, they don’t recognize that their personalities are repellent and that they need to actually approach women to have any success with them,” because a lot of incels DO come to that conclusion, and that’s how we end up with pick-up artists.

Unattractiveness exists, and it DOES suck, and it’s clearly worse than the alternative in a lot of ways. But I’m continually gobsmacked that any man can recognize this and not become a feminist, because of how blatantly and overwhemlingly it’s worse for women. The fact that people go in the exact opposite direction is just utterly mystifying to me.

Zolnier
5 years ago

So…what is a Chad?

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

I want to nth all of these comments.

Regarding rejection, years ago during my club dancing days (Reagan’s first term, IIRC), a friend commented to me about how I would prowl the club, asking many many cute boys to dance. “What?” I replied. “How else does one do it? I should stand against the wall, hoping one of THEM asks ME? Foolishness.” He joking described it as ‘predatory behavior’. Sure, I got rejected nine times out of ten, but that tenth time made up for it. And I’m three inches shorter than 5’10”. Faint heart never yet won fair booty.

Is it really that much harder to be a straight guy? I had no idea.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Zolnier | March 28, 2015 at 1:38 pm
So…what is a Chad?

Judging from the context, I think it’s a dude who is not incel, who is happy with himself or his life, and obviously they resent him for it.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Robert | March 28, 2015 at 1:50 pm
Faint heart never yet won fair booty.

That made me giggle. Good on you.

puahater
puahater
5 years ago

Puahater/sluthater here to shake up this echo chamber. Look David, as an obese unattractive guy, why do you devote your life’s work to being a white knight for women who only want to fuck Chads and cuckold beta male boyfriends and hubbies? Join the dark side. I invite every beta male on this blog to join the dark side and fight for men’s rights together.

You want to know why I joined the dark side? Society has treated me like shit all my life because I’m an autistic manlet. Society made me who I am. And one day I woke up and decided that I was going to stop being subservient to a society that enslaves us and treats us like yesterday’s garbage. I decided to go my own way. I don’t owe society shit. We’re going to red pill as many men and female allies (like MRA Karen Straughan) as we possibly can. Every single one of you white knight beta cucks will be red pilled and see the truth. You’ll stop being white knights. You’ll stop being cucks. You’ll be disciplines and acolytes of the Red Pill church.

And together we will put our bodies upon the gears, the levers, upon all the apparatus until we make it all stop. Until western civilization collapses. If we all go our own way and drop out of society, society will crash. Society can’t function without beta males. If it wasn’t for beta male engineers, there would be no Tinder for sluts to hook up with Chads. You beta males. You are the difference in the world. Stop being cucks. And join us.

Society has done nothing for you David. You’re obese and ugly. No girl wants to fuck you unless she wants to use you for beta bux. You owe nothing to society. Join the dark side.

Why should we be nice to girls and pretend to take an interest in their lives when these bitches fuck Chad without a condom on the first date without any effort? Why should we buy bitches dinner and drinks. Wine and dine them and jump hoops in order to get laid when Chad gets it instantly and for free? Beta males need to boycott dating and boycott society.

BETA MALES OF THE WORLD UNITE

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

@ Robert

Is it really that much harder to be a straight guy? I had no idea.

Well, unless you want school disco syndrome (girls down one wall, boys down the other) you do have to make a bit of an effort. Perhaps not quite like this though…

Oh Hi There
Oh Hi There
5 years ago

Here’s a bad argument, which I found linked from an old WHTM post on the MRM’s response to feminist’s response to Elliot Rodger:

Either misogyny is everywhere and it doesn’t lead to mass murder or it’s isolated and this was an anomalous disturbed individual.

Yeah, those are not the only two options. Misogyny, by being everywhere, can give disturbed individuals license to act on their disturbed impulses. Sure, it’s possible that Elliot Rodger may have found a different hate group to be into had he not had PUAHate (now Sluthate) to latch onto, but this is the one he found and this is the one that encouraged him.

In that old WHTM post, the larger parts of the MRM were distancing themselves from Rodger, claiming that he would have latched on to any hate group. In other words, their defense of themselves is that they are a hate group. And as with any hate group, we can now see that it works both ways: Not only do violent individuals latch on to them and start believing what they do, but the hate group itself reaches out to violent individuals and claims responsibility for their actions, whether there’s evidence of a connection or not.

It’s still not clear what Lubitz’s motivations were. For that matter, it’s not entirely clear what Rodger’s motivations were–at its deepest level, the mind of a mass murderer is too inscrutable for a healthy person to understand. But what is 100% clear is that the intend of these forum posts encouraging mass murder is to encourage mass murder.

As awful as any of this is to interact with, the only way to help is if these dank cesspits get a little sunlight in posts like these.

Oh Hi There
Oh Hi There
5 years ago

Also: I think my brain can’t process the word “sluthate”. I keep reading it as “sleuth-ate”, like they’re a group of amateur detectives. Does that happen to anyone else?

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Sluthaters hate dishonesty, they hate that instead of admitting it is their looks that are the problem, other people say they need to become more confident, or work on their body language, or do something as minor as getting a haircut or changing clothes.

Look. Make whatever excuses you like and want, but Sluthaters are TOTALLY superficial. They are the hyper-extreme worst examples of the very thing they claim to decry about society. They hate their own looks; they hate each other’s; they hate those of the successful and the unsuccessful-in-love alike. They waste a helluva lot of time picking apart every detail of every person’s looks that they can think of. What is the common denominator here? No, not a lying society, hypocritically pretending that looks aren’t everything. It’s THEM.

And if the rest of what you said is true, then it would hold true that no plain or ugly dude would ever get lucky, or successful, in any walk of life. But there are plenty of them. Bill Gates never won any beauty prizes, but he’s a billionaire. And happily married. Hollywood, too, is full of short, squat, bald, unpretty guys who somehow still managed to succeed at acting and at finding their real-life leading ladies.

No, Sluthaters don’t “hate dishonesty”. They hate HUMANITY. They are the wretchedest living examples of self-fulfilling prophecy. And the only reason I don’t feel the least bit sorry for them is because their own attitudes make it plain why they deserve to remain forever alone. You can’t love a guy who’s made hatred his full-time obsession. Hate doesn’t attract love. Only love can do that.

proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

@puahater – Judging by the thoughts put forth in your teal deer, you haven’t had success with women because you exude negativity.

Outside of your echo chamber, people of wildly varying levels of standard attractiveness find love…
…though it may be more of an uphill slog for those who drip hate for everything about their preferred sexual partners except for their genetalia.

To put it bluntly (and in your awful terms), a balding autist manlet with cystic acne can score if he has charm and a personality.
If you’re repelling everyone you’re trying attract, it’s time for some self examination rather than projection :-/

proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

You can’t love a guy who’s made hatred his full-time obsession. Hate doesn’t attract love. Only love can do that.

QFT

davidknewton
davidknewton
5 years ago

Hello puahater, nice to see you and know that you can describe the red pill position without sounding hysterically creepy and cultish whatsoever.

Also, who’s Chad?

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

I met an incel once. He was (is) 5’6”, balding already in his late teens, and quite there on the autistic spectrum (an extreme engineer brain). We’ve been married now for over 30 years, have adult children, and look forward to another 30 years together, health (and gods) permitting.

Aaaaand Aunt Edna wins the thread. Let me know where you want the box of kittens, ma’am.

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
5 years ago

@puahater – off you go and bring down Western Civilisation then because there really are that many of you and you aren’t just a tiny little group of embittered misogynists with nothing better to do than sit on the internet and whine about how that bitch Becky Sue didn’t go to prom with you like you wanted.

ej
ej
5 years ago

Join the dark side. I invite every beta male on this blog to join the dark side and fight for men’s rights together.

http://makeameme.org/media/created/HansAre-we-the.jpg

Also, it’s probably not a good idea to insult the people you’re trying to recruit.

davidknewton
davidknewton
5 years ago

Ahhh, god, I was just about to go back and post that 😀 He’s not doing an incredible job selling the MRA lifestyle!

ej
ej
5 years ago

@davidknewton

I’m really surprised I didn’t get ninja’d with that. It must be the super misandry powers I got by dying my hair pink today.

puahater
puahater
5 years ago

Chad is the idea of a prototypical alpha male. Think 6’1″ 200+ lb starting quarterback in college with no more than 10-12% body fat. Yeah sure you don’t necessarily need to be a starting quarterback to get laid with college hotties. But that’s just a prototypical ideal. A Chad is basically a tall, handsome guy in great shape. Preferably with a girthy cock 7+” in length.

The top 20% (or less) of males monopolize 80% of the sex. When women are done with riding the alpha cock carousel, they look for a beta provider. And often times they will have sex with alpha males on the side while her cuck bf pays for dates and buys her lots of things. And when that stupid idiot puts a ring on her finger, he is basically her slave for life. A total cuckold. Women have the freedom to fuck with DOM bulls while hubby pays the bills. And men are supposed to tolerate this. And then she will clean out her hubby in divorce court. And collect paychecks from him while having sex with her DOM bulls. We live in a New World Order where alpha males and women live like Gods. And beta males are slaves.

That’s what my ex-girlfriend did with me (except for the cheating. Though there may have been some cheating going on that I wasn’t aware of. You can never trust women). At first our relationship was mostly just sex, cuddling, watching Netflix, etc. and I was happy with that arrangement. But then she wanted me to take her out somewhere nice instead of just McDonalds, help her find apartments like an errand boy and she always wanted me to pay her way like a good little beta cuck. I would have been fine with taking her out to a nice restaurant if we split the bill. She never wanted to pay her own way because she was broke and needed to sponge off me financially. I felt used. Like I was a john and she was a prostitute. And when she got the sense after 10 months of dating on-and-off that I wasn’t interested in getting married and having kids (we are in our late twenties), she went and found a beta provider via an arranged marriage. She broke my heart just like Andreas Lubitz’s fiancee broke his heart. Women are evil. They chew us and spit us out.

davidknewton
davidknewton
5 years ago

Excellent 😀 If I had any left, posts like this would make me want to do the same.

puahater, let’s be constructive a minute – it’s pretty clear from your post that you want to fight for men’s rights because you’re not getting enough sex. What right(s) do you want to be instated to solve this?

Also, while I have the chance to ask questions, how exactly are you dropping out of society?

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I love how our latest putrid little troll thinks that all guys who are in tech are fellow incels. I’ve known plenty of geeks, computer or otherwise who do just fine at dating and sex.

I also love how he thinks calling men ugly is a good recruiting tool. Most people don’t want to join a group if that group is generally terrible company and mean to them.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
5 years ago

“I would have been fine with taking her out to a nice restaurant if we split the bill.”

And they say romance is dead.

deniseeliza
deniseeliza
5 years ago

Wow, you mean to tell me that puahate had a girl break up with him once because they wanted different things out of life? A TRAVESTY, I TELL YOU. A true nightmare.

Hey dude, guess what? Almost everybody, of any gender, gets their heart broken at some point in their lives. It hurts. It doesn’t mean that everyone hates you.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Women are evil. They chew us and spit us out.

Well, with an attitude like that, good luck ever getting a single one. You can fuck yourself, dude, because you ain’t ever coming near me.

davidknewton
davidknewton
5 years ago

puahater, having someone break up with you is a tough thing – I’ve been lucky because I only went through it for a high school relationship that was never very serious, and even then it devastated me. But if you knew you were being used, what made you continue the relationship?

And I don’t know how you got from that to the ludicrous fantasy of women all using men in some sort of illuminati conspiracy that you outlined in your second paragraph, but however it happened, you seriously need to get some perspective.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

I would say that having diametrically opposed views on having children is a pretty good reason for a couple in their late 20s to break up.

I would say that Puahater has been thoroughly brainwashed by his time in the PUAhate echo chamber, so they now let him go out in the world as a reliable PUAbot.

If that’s the way you want to be, go ahead, be that way. You won’t be missed. If you’re going to get all pissy about women because opne girlfriend broke up with you because she wanted children and you didn’t, you’ll be better off living alone. And don’t let the screen door hit you on your way out etc.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Wow…I just have no words for the amount of self-delusion and “I’m morally superior!” coming out of puahater’s posts. Wow.

Dude, you need to get out more often. Women don’t want to not fuck you because you’re a “beta” or whatever, they don’t want to fuck you because you obviously hate women (but still want to fuck them?) and have some severe resentment issues you need to talk out.

No woman wants to fuck someone who obviously hates them. I certainly don’t. And yeah, I’d consider the attitude of “Girls just want betas to pay for everything while they fuck alphas and they’re all bitches!” to be “hatred”.

And you and your girlfriend broke up because it looks like you wanted different things out of life, which happens all the time to everyone. She didn’t want McDonald’s all the time, and you didn’t want to get married or have kids. These things happen. It doesn’t mean she cheated on you or wanted to make you her slave or any of these really outlandish (and unfounded) claims. Do you think that this relationship was good for her? Do you think that she wasn’t hurt by it ending? Do you think she really didn’t care for you at all?

For fuck’s sake, it sounds like you’re trying to make yourself out to be a martyr because she wanted to eat at a nicer restaurant every once in a while.

sb77
5 years ago

puahater, if you disliked your ex’s company so much that you couldn’t bear to do anything with her other than watch TV and have sex, you should be glad she moved on, not heartbroken.

Also… just take a deep breath and listen to yourself for a minute. You sound completely insufferable.

These statistics you`re quoting… where did you get them?

Since I’ve heard these arguments before, I’m assuming you got them from some website. Why do you assume that a bunch of idiots online know the motivation of every woman, or have some kind of insight into the amount of sex various arbitrary groupings of people have?

Also, you’re probably not going to convert anyone by using a bunch of incomprehensible jargon. DOM bulls? WTF?? Chads? You can guess random people’s penis size? Do you have any idea how idiotic all of this is?

davidknewton
davidknewton
5 years ago

Ah, god, I really wanted to see what a representative of the MRAs would say in his own words when trying to recruit reasonable people. Can you give us the gist of it?

acrannymint
acrannymint
5 years ago

WTF is a cuck?

davidknewton
davidknewton
5 years ago

God knows. I’m not sure about ‘manlet’ or really what a beta male is either, while we’re asking.

Apart from the penis size thing, I was also surprised at the precise range of body fat given. This isn’t something I can tell on people at a glance, because I’m not the Predator.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

@acrannymint: short for cuckold, in MRAspeak.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

WHEN daisies pied and violets blue,
And lady-smocks all silver-white,
And cuckoo-buds of yellow hue
Do paint the meadows with delight,
The cuckoo then, on every tree, 5
Mocks married men; and thus sings he,
Cuckoo!
Cuckoo, cuckoo!—O word of fear,
Unpleasing to a married ear!

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

That’s Shakespeare, by the way. The word “cuckold”, derived from “cuckoo”, is very Elizabethan — which is why it seems so odd today. I believe it comes from the beliefs that cuckoos laid their eggs in other birds’ nests with the idea that the other bird would raise their chicks, but since male cuckoos probably didn’t do the egg-laying the MRAs are a bit off-base.

Gandyforeverandever
Gandyforeverandever
5 years ago

Hey,

I’ve spent a decent amount of time on Sluthate and other sites frequented by ‘self-described ‘incels.’ I realise this probably won’t go down too well here, but I think we’re completely boneheaded about the source of their beliefs when we tell them it all boils down to their own personality being the problem.

We’re meant to believe that we’ve got a bunch of highly superficial people, desperate, desperate for the approval of females, with no other significant flaws, who, after being rejected by women (because of their superficiality) decide that they will as a group, delude themselves into believing that its their LOOKS that are the main problem as a means of avoiding recognising that their own personality is the problem? In my experience with the behaviour of people with what i’d call ‘bad’ personalities, I dont think they’re really all that concerned about this kind of shit enough to do any kind of rationalising about it. Superficial people can find other superficial people, and so on. Isn’t it just plainly more likely that a certain segment of the population, probably mostly male, are just very undesirable mates, to the extent that their lives are quite unpleasant, without possessing any particularly morally negative qualities. Where on earth do we get the idea that our moral compass and sexual desires are at all aligned? Blegh.

I don’t know – isn’t that all a bit too convenient, like how the poor guy who complains about wealth inequality clearly is only poor due to his personal failings, because only someone with a bad personality/work ethnic would think to complain about wealth disparities? Or,, dare I say it, how women definitely don’t discriminate against ‘nice guys’ because every ‘nice guy’ who brings that issue up is obviously actually an asshole and so we can dismiss this and rest easy.

Honestly, I think the obession sluthaters have with looks stems from, like, the sort of obession those in poverty have with money. Its sort of like, a bit of stockholm syndrome, a bit of angst, and a bit of just like, the recognition that no matter how ugly it is, if they CAN get the looks thing going for them (via plastic surgery, or whatever) then their own lives will dramatically improve. its a sort of painful obsession.

I think we need to start recognising the importance of looks – and the ugliness of our own motivations when it comes to choosing a mate. You know, the left has long acknowledged the double blow that the disadvantage suffer, when those with privilege don’t only get to enjoy the advantages their privilege gets them, but then get to use their powerful position to ensure everyone believes that their privilege doesn’t exist, or is somehow related to their personal merits. The first step to doing anything is to be like, yup, okay, i’m white, i’m rich, i’m clever — and those things are clearly undeserved – you don’t warrant being worse off than me. Whats’ the deal with the left doing this for things like looks or other components of sexual attraction?

Is this really any different to the ‘cliche’ response which every incel says he both recieved from society, and believed himself for many years before eventually settling into the ‘looks are secretly everything’ ethos.

I think people actually need to start paying attention to what these people are saying, and perhaps taking the time to look beyond the bile they spill. The left has long been able to overlook individual wrongs in the cases of black or feminist rights – and places great emphasis on the . Doesn’t anyone see something problematic with highly successful people such as David Futrelle talking, you know, about people who in all honesty are probably in the midst some of those who live some of the worst lives around in the West.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

I’m pretty sure Chad is the guy who our feminist friend Katie is dating.

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
5 years ago

“At first our relationship was mostly just sex, cuddling, watching Netflix, etc. and I was happy with that arrangement. But then she wanted me to take her out somewhere nice instead of just McDonalds,”

HOW DARE THAT BITCH HAVE STANDARDS

“help her find apartments like an errand boy”

AND INVOLVE YOU IN HER LIFE DECISIONS

“and she always wanted me to pay her way like a good little beta cuck. I would have been fine with taking her out to a nice restaurant if we split the bill.”

So you’re mean with money.

“She broke my heart just like Andreas Lubitz’s fiancee broke his heart.”

But puahater, she was a golddigging sponge who treated you an errand boy and a john and made you feel used! You should be happy she’s someone else’s problem! Besides, if you got married she’d just ride the alpha cock carousel, remember? All those big sweaty quarterbacks that used to shove you in the lockers while the girl you pined over went out with them?

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
5 years ago

But seriously, puahater’s autobiography shows what the problem really is with these guys – they need to grow the hell up and realise that other people are human beings, too. If you just want sex on tap with no effort put into the relationship, then be upfront about that. Some women would be fine with that! Most women foolishly believe that if you’re taking them out (even to McDonalds) and inviting them over to your house, that means you’re actually interested in *them*, not just *fucking* them or being able to brag to other incels that you have a real girlfriend.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

I felt used. Like I was a john and she was a prostitute.

I guess I really shouldn’t be surprised that our latest troll is under the impression that it’s sex workers who are the ones using johns, and not the other way around.

Orion
5 years ago

Indole,

You’re mistaken about Hollywood actors. According to google, Tom Cruise is 5’7″. Antonio Banderas is 5’9″. Seth Green is 5’4″. Robert Downey Junior is 5’10”. There are just a few action hero or dramatic actors off the top of my head. I’m not counting comic actors, of which there are many. This is partly because the camera can make people look taller; I’m not saying we don’t associate height with power or authority. I’m just saying that you may wish to examine some of your preconceptions and make sure you’re perceiving the world as accurately as possible.

Meanwhile, I will actually agree with you about one thing: We do tell young people, especially men, some lies about looks and how important they are. I’m not a woman, but I think we tell women the same platitudes about inner and outer beauty, not worrying what other people think of you, and so on; women just get so much overwhelming input from other directions about the importance of looks that it drowns it out. We have noble goals, because we don’t want to encourage people to become obsessed with their looks in a way that harms them, which all the incels have. Still, I think as a culture we would benefit from a more honest awareness of the privileges that come with beauty. If nothing else, if we all knew the research on the beauty bias, we might not be taken in by the extreme fantasy version incels seem to believe in.

However it’s not a duty for women specifically to make this happen, and it’s really, especially, ultra-importantly not individual women’s jobs to do this for the men in their lives. If you ask someone out an they think you’re ugly, they won’t say that you’re ugly. It will never happen, and it shouldn’t happen. At best, they’ll say something like “I’m not interested in you that way” which might or might not be about looks. That’s how it should be. There are times and places for honesty, and turning down dates just isn’t one of them.