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a woman is always to blame antifeminism entitled babies misogyny MRA not-quite-explicit threats not-quite-plausible deniability paul elam sympathy for murderers TyphonBlue victim blaming

When Men's Rights Activists celebrate male rage, they make murder/suicides like the one that may have brought down Germanwings Flight 9525 more likely

Germanwings employees leave flowers at a makeshift memorial for those killed on Flight
Germanwings employees at a makeshift memorial for those killed on Flight 9525

As the news broke this morning that the Germanwings plane crash may have been a deliberate murder/suicide caused by the flight’s co-pilot, readers of the leading Men’s Rights website A Voice for Men were greeted by a post from site founder Paul Elam titled “A little blood in the mix never hurt a revolution.”

The headline on Elam’s post, a muddled mess that’s mostly a response to recent infighting amongst MRAs, recalls a disturbing post of his from several years ago titled “How to Build a Man Bomb.” (Archived here.)

Ostensibly a warning about the cost of ignoring male rage, it read a lot more like a threat.

[W]e are building a man bomb. And when this one detonates it could make the American race riots [of the 1960s] look like a Thanksgiving Day parade.

The misandric Zeitgeist, the system of feminist governance that most are sill loathe to acknowledge is about to head toward its inevitable and ugly conclusion, and the results of that will inflict another deep wound on the psyche of the western world.

The post continues on for some time in this melodramatic vein:

The ranking members of the matriarchy, like social terrorists, are partnering with and guiding government toward the inevitable explosion, and when it goes off they will be the first to point the finger at men, even at MRA’s, for the fallout.

It won’t help them, though. Because whatever tragic end this comes to, it will not be at the hands of MRA’s, but in spite of our efforts to prevent it.

All this would be a little more believable as a “warning” if Elam and other MRAs didn’t devote most of their energy to cultivating exactly this kind of male anger — and in some cases lionizing those who have acted out this rage.

The problem goes well beyond the few — on the fringe of even the already extreme Men’s Rights movement — who glorify misogyny-driven mass murderers like Marc Lepine or Elliot Rodger. Or those “Red Pillers” who declare that if they were going to kill themselves they would take some woman with them.

No, the problem comes when those in the mainstream of the Men’s Rights movement celebrate men like Tom Ball, a troubled father who set himself on fire on the steps of a New Hampshire courthouse in an attempt, as he explained in a lengthy manifesto, to inspire other men “to start burning down police stations and courthouses” to protest what he saw as a misandrist court system.

He followed this call to arms with instructions on how to prepare effective Molotov cocktails, and a lengthy plea to men to “finish the job” he had started:

There will be some casualties in this war. Some killed, some wounded, some captured. Some of them will be theirs. Some of the casualties will be ours.

Now, nobody wants to get killed. But let us look at your life. You are broke after paying child support. … Face it boys, we are no longer fathers. We are just piggy banks.

So you are not losing anything by picking up the Molotov cocktail.  …

I only managed to get the main door of the Cheshire County Courthouse in Keene, NH. I would appreciate it if some of you boys would finish the job for me.

In other words, Ball was a would-be suicide/murderer who hoped others would do the murdering for him.

Ball’s manifesto was posted on AVFM’s “Activism” section for several years, taken down only after the Boston Marathon, and he was widely hailed by others in and around the Men’s Rights movement.

Helen Smith — an AVFM ally, the author of Men on Strike, and the wife of “Instapundit” Glenn Reynolds — wrote that Ball’s

statement is not the ramblings of a madman, it is the mission of a warrior in some sense. He was fighting for his rights and for yours, if you are male. He was trying to bring some urgency to the male plight in this country … .

She somehow neglected to mention that he was trying to do this by urging men to firebomb courthouses and police stations.

It’s striking how often MRA manifestos shade into vague threats of violence. One recent case, of many: Jeremiah True, the MRA-adjacent Reed College student banned from the discussion section of one of his courses after unnerving everyone in the class with his rants on rape, warned in one recent online manifesto that “[i]f you exclude me from the campus, I will rain hell down upon you all.”

True’s melodramatic insinuations of apocalyptic retribution might be amusing if declarations like these didn’t so often precede actual violence.

Unfortunately, when they aren’t making vague threats like these, MRAs are often found offering ingenious excuses for actual murderers. In an online discussion of the case of Chris Benoit, a pro wrestler who killed his wife and his son before hanging himself, AVFM’s Alison Tieman (a.k.a. Typhonblue) suggested that men who kill their families were men “backed into a courner [sic].” In the case of Benoit, she wondered

what horrific thing this woman did to this man to make him snap like this? I know, I know… “blaming the victim”. But I’ve seen too many “victims” grinning and pulling strings in the back ground to really feel sorry for them any more. 

Her solution to male murder/suicide?

It’s obvious from this that men need to step away from women and start developing a male society outside of the auspices of women. That way they can support eachother when they get kicked out of female-society.

Murder/suicide isn’t the result of “misandry,” of evil wives “grinning and pulling strings in the back ground,” of men being “kicked out of female society.”

All too often, it’s the result of aggrieved male entitlement, of old-school “macho” attitudes that teach men that any sort of failure (from sexual to financial) is shameful and that anger is the only acceptable emotion to show the world.

Unfortunately, the Men’s Rights movement does nothing to challenge any of these toxic notions, all of them legacies of patriarchal thinking. All too often, MRAs celebrate them, helping to make the world a more difficult place for men, and a more dangerous place for women and children.

Male rage is not part of the solution. It is part of the problem.

My previous post on the Germanwings Flight 9525, and one “manospherean’s” appalling response to it, can be found here.

The We Hunted the Mammoth Pledge Drive continues! If you haven’t already, please consider donating with the button below. (The PayPal page will say you are donating to Man Boobz.) Thanks!

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kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

@Paul:

And the Jezebel article was a satirical response to a DV study that uses terrible categorization to “prove” that men and women commit violence equally (in frequency and scope). It used over the top descriptors for simple things, like “hitting with an open hand” to describe slapping, or “violently shoving” to describe pushing, and it inserted the context that the study ignored; things like a defensive response to someone throwing their computer across the room. In the study, that’d be non-reciprocal violence. In real life, few people would think that.

Paul’s response was basically “Oh yeah? Oh yeah? You think violence is funny huh? Well, I’ll declare a Bash a Violent Bitch month, where men beat the living shit out of their significant others. You won’t think violence is so funny when YOU’RE the one getting your stupid fucking face bashed in.”

That’s not satire, that’s just rage put to paper; an over-the-top fantasy of violence in response to a joke about a violence study, not violence itself.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

How is it illogical to ask you for one example of the MRM helping men and boys? Or to find one example of feminists opposing someone helping them?

You made the claims. Back them up.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Also Elam, who is 6’5 said he wouldn’t hesitate to use violence above and beyond self defense to retaliate against a 105 lb woman who had hit him.

ej
ej
6 years ago

Would you like to address the other two things, Paul? Because ignoring them won’t make my point go away.

Clearly, the answer is no, which is interesting, as Paul claimed earlier that “people on this site don’t want a discussion.” Yet, when someone asks questions to try to have an actual discussion, those questions are ignored.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

<blockquote.Like REALLY. we laid this issue to rest 5. years. ago.

Denying the context and lying about it being “satire” is not “laid to rest”. You’re lying and no one here is dim enough to believe your bullshit. Run along an lick your great leader’s boots. Send him some money while your at it. You’re pathetic. You hate and ignorance are so embarrassing that if you had on moment of honest self reflection you’d be ashamed.

..and JB couldn’t get a rise out of a loaf of bread. “WHOOOORE!” isn’t exactly rapier wit. People exposing her lies, twisted misogyny and harassment aren’t the ones who are JB’s little puppets on strings. You are. She knows it. She gets off on the power just like Paul Elam does. That’s why she whips you up and then sets you on her targets du jour. It’s sport for her. She’s not an activist. She’s just a creepy lady screaming slurs at people who never wanted to talk to her in the first place. If she was using the phone or the mail or just standing on someone’s side walk to do what she’s been doing on Twitter, she’d have been visited by the police by now.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

I effed that blockquote up. I can do typing!

Paul
6 years ago

Wier, I’m not here to do your bloody academic research for you and I don’t owe you my time. I came here to speak about this grotesqueness of this headline, not to trade weblinks about the MRM and what they have or have not done. I’m not even part of the ‘MRM’ I’m an egaletarian moderate who think most feminists and MRM’s are just different sides of the same extremist coin.

I don’t see much activism happening here either, other than regular angry posts by david about supposed conspiracies in the manosphere.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

So Paul, basically you want to make accusations and have people take you at your word without any discussion? And we’re the ones not interested in discussion?

Nobody’s forcing you to pay attention to David or anyone here. If you don’t like it, then run along.

Nice website attached to your handle, by the way, though the name of this blog has moved on so you might need a different domain. “wehuntedthemammories” perhaps?

Paul
6 years ago

“So Paul, basically you want to make accusations and have people take you at your word without any discussion”

Sure, why not. I thought that was a core principle of modern feminism — taking people at their word with no evidence. #IStandWithJackie #teamharpy

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Oh. Paul. You widdle dickens you.

http://media.tumblr.com/dd7580e8b18ee1000e290437704a113d/tumblr_inline_mnp0gilL9u1qz4rgp.jpg

Paul thinks if he’s vague and huffy someone might read this and take him seriously.

That’s his brain firing on all cylinders. That’s the best argument he could make and he thinks it was AWESOME! It’s like he’s circling a poop he did on the floor, throwing confetti and yelling “In your face feminisms!”.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you a perfect example of your average MRA.

http://i.imgur.com/sBEFqYR.gif

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Kirby, I didn’t believe you. Then I clicked, and ohs noes.

Have to run to work, but might poke my nose back in during the lulls!

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Now he’s pretending to be a neutral egalitarian. How original! That claim doesn’t exactly hold because his original comment was about how the MRM just wants to help men and boys. Now that he’s been called out on being unable to back it up, he has to pretend he’s not one of them.

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

A wild Troll appeared!
Mammotheers used REQUEST FOR EVIDENCE.
It was super effective!
Troll tried to use BULLSHIT EXCUSES but it was confused!

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

So Paul is basically your average MRA coming in here to drop some assertions at us and then never ever back them up with anything concrete. Bored now. Every. One. Of. You. Does that.

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

Paul:
comment image

Paul
6 years ago

Feminism: if you can’t beat ’em, post stupid GID’s

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

OK, who shot the food?

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

Boring troll is boring, bordering on spamming. Someone email David, I’m on my phone right now.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Gif.

No one has o beat you, Paul. You walked in the room, shit and fell back in it. You haven’t actually answered any questions, backed up your claims or even clearly defined your terms. At this point you are rolling in said shit and crowing in triumph. It’s actually helping me feel better about this whole ugly thing. Thank you.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

It’s hard to “beat” you when you ignore any serious answers. Mockery is the only tool we have left. 🙂

Paul
6 years ago

“Someone email David” Thankyou. That just made my day. I’m done here. Don’t wanna ruin your little man bashing party after all, that would be misogynistic. You can leave your bearded overlord to his …. whatever the hell he does .. *shudder*

Paul
6 years ago

Lea: it’s spelled two.

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

This is like 15 comments now of Paul saying nothing at all in a very verbose way. Is there a record?

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

Actually, it’s spelled “to”.

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

Man bashing party! I’m dying! Hahahaha!!

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

Paul is “all men”, didn’t you know?

I wish some of these trolls at least had candy inside them.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Ew, but would you want to eat anything that fell out of a troll?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

@isidore13:

And two of those comments were dedicated to flouncing dramatically! The question is, will he return for the hat trick?

@sunnysombrera:

Ha ha, yeah, man bashing. That’d be silly. (hides mañata filled with chocolate coins and stick behind back)

*whistles*

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

How many times can one troll flounce in an hour?

ej
ej
6 years ago

@WWTH

Maybe he’s going for a record…

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

Graphic, detailed description of violence against women: satire!

Requiring evidence to support unfounded assertions: manbashing!

GrumpyOldMangina
6 years ago

Paul wins the Major-Lack-of-Self-Awareness Projection-of-the-Month Award.

Oh Hi There
Oh Hi There
6 years ago

@Paul

I don’t see much activism happening here either, other than regular angry posts by david about supposed conspiracies in the manosphere.

This isn’t a place for activism. It’s a comedy site, where we laugh at all the insanely dumb stuff the MRM does. And I looked at the comments before I posted–this community generally does a great job keeping the discussion relevant and productive, as compared to other sites on the same topic. They hold each other to their own beliefs here.

And in that spirit, you’ve claimed that 1) AVFM advocates violence against women, but is not representative of the whole Men’s Rights Movement, and 2) AVFM doesn’t advocate violence against women. Which is it? You can’t have it both ways.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Serious question for troll Paul, if he’s still hanging around: Why did AVFM post Thomas Ball’s manifesto in their “Activism” section for years? Seeing as AVFM is just a human rights blog, and all.

friday jones
friday jones
6 years ago

Hey hey, Paul, there’s nothing more that we can do than show you this:
http://www.donotlink.com/eaka

Oh look, one of your precious “equal rights for men and boys” advocates tried to blame the aircraft murder-suicide on women who don’t dispense enough blow jobs to men considered unattractive. So please fuck off with your concern trolling. Kthxbye.

friday jones
friday jones
6 years ago

@Paul the Troll said: “AVFM is a blog, not the headquarters of gender equality.”

[Looks around] Um…. isn’t THIS just a blog? And aren’t you doing the exact same thing to Dave that Dave is doing to Paul and Roosh and Aurini and company? Except you’re doing it in his house, and he does it in his own house? Since when did THIS blog become so important that you had to gripe about it, but those other blogs are just blogs so what’s the big beef?

You, sir, are an hypocrite. Filthy hyppies!

contrapangloss
6 years ago

::ducks in::

Okay, so this exchange was slightly priceless:

Sayeth Paul:

Lea: it’s spelled two.

Sayeth Buttercup Q. Skullpants:

Actually, it’s spelled “to”.

::runs off laughing::

contrapangloss
6 years ago

I was sure that was a blockquote not an em tag… Blockquote mammoth, you’re a precious little beastie.

Paul
6 years ago

Lea: it’s spelled two.

Sayeth Buttercup Q. Skullpants:

Actually, it’s spelled “to”.

::runs off laughing::

I guess they skipped over the ‘sarcasm’ chapter of your womens studies course 😉 Re read Lea’s post and maybe you will get the joke.

Paul
6 years ago

Friday: his assessment of the crash is as disgusting as this one. As I’ve already stated, I’m not part of the MRM, or feminism. I’m an egaletarian/moderate – both sides have their extremist voices, as with any movement. Reality lies in the middle of these two groups, with an ever-growing demographic who are sick and tired of the ‘gender wars’

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

No one has o beat you, Paul.

Lea: it’s spelled two.

Actually, it’s spelled “to”.

::runs off laughing::

I guess they skipped over the ‘sarcasm’ chapter of your womens studies course 😉 Re read Lea’s post and maybe you will get the joke.

Man, there is either some meta-level comedy shit going down here, or Paul is just taking the concept of “fake it till you make it” just a tad two seriously.

(That’s how you do sarcasm, Paul)

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Paul:

I guess they skipped over the ‘sarcasm’ chapter of your womens studies course 😉 Re read Lea’s post and maybe you will

…No, that still doesn’t make any sense.

You lack substance, Paul. And apparently don’t understand what words like “satire” and “sarcasm” means.

Paul
6 years ago

one post up honey. you’re still missing it. it was a slight against her pedantism on correcting one of my typoes.. anywaysssss..

‘alpha male’ .. sounds like some sort of PUA site. If you guys are still clutching to the belief that PUA and ‘alpha male’ type orgs are still part of the MRM/MRHM I can’t really help you as you have pretty huge blinders on. Most ‘MRM’s’ think these guys are full of shit. Women don’t ‘owe’ men anything, other than respect and equal rights.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

@Paul:

I’m an egaletarian/moderate – both sides have their extremist voices, as with any movement. Reality lies in the middle of these two groups, with an ever-growing demographic who are sick and tired of the ‘gender wars’

I’d love too know what the middle ground is between “men are being persecuted for not having women be subservient to them anymore” and “women should have all the rights and respect that men have, gender shouldn’t be a dividing role in society” is. Because unless you have a very good explanation, you’ve pretty much walked straight into an informal logical fallacy.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

one post up honey. you’re still missing it. it was a slight against her pedantism on correcting one of my typoes.. anywaysssss..

OK, who shot the food?

Hmm, still not seeing it…

Aha, you mean correcting “GID” to “GIF?” Yeah, that probably made more sense in your head than out loud.
comment image

Robert
Robert
6 years ago

Oh, Paul, do keep coming back. We haven’t had a chew toy for days.

Also – man bashing? I’m a man, my husband’s a man, we have two* sons. Our household is so overwhelmingly masculine, we practically leave a snail trail of testosterone wherever we go. I like this site a lot.**

*Yes, I know, you’ll tell me it’s spelled ‘to’. Because sarcasm.

**But not alot. Although I like alots a lot.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Friday: his assessment of the crash is as disgusting as this one. As I’ve already stated, I’m not part of the MRM, or feminism. I’m an egaletarian/moderate – both sides have their extremist voices, as with any movement. Reality lies in the middle of these two groups, with an ever-growing demographic who are sick and tired of the ‘gender wars’

What exactly is the middle ground between “Women cause men to kill people by not giving out sexual favors on demand/being too slutty/not being a doormat/being too feminist/existing in the general vicinity of men” and “that’s not how it works?” Or how about the middle ground between “violent rhetoric that plays into fantasies of aggrieved male entitlement is contributing to the problem” and “stuck-up b*tches deserve to die”?

What is the middle ground between “women are people” and “women aren’t people”?

Paul
6 years ago

“women should have all the rights and respect that men have, gender shouldn’t be a dividing role in society”

If you actually believe modern feminism stops at that, you are fooling yourself. You don’t have to look much further than the latest Marcotte, Valenti or ‘feministing.com’ article to realize it doesn’t.

as for most of the MRM’s focus, take: “men are being persecuted for not having women be subservient to them anymore” and change it to “men are being presecuted by feminists in some attempt to correct an oppression scorecard” and you might just be getting on the right track.

Or do you actually believe that due process should not be extended to men accused of assault, male circumcision should not be abolished, and the courts and police are not heavily weighted to favor the woman in cases of DV, parental obligation, etc.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

Women don’t ‘owe’ men anything, other than respect and equal rights.

Says the totally-not-part-of-the-mrm egalitarian.

What makes you say women owe men equal rights rather than the other way around? Is current society equal in your eyes, or is there a disparity? Is that disparity “equal” in that both men and women face different but equally harmful problems, or is it skewed? If it’s skewed, who is on the rougher side?