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The lovely piece of human garbage that is Roosh Valizadeh recently posted a helpful little list of “6 Warning Signs A Girl Isn’t Worth A Relationship.”
It’s a bit of an ironic list, in that Roosh, a self-described expat “love tourist” who makes his living giving men terrible dating advice, inadvertently provides any “girls” reading his list 6 Clear Warning Signs That Roosh is an Angry Sexual Predator Who Should Be Avoided at All Costs.
Roosh starts by warning his readers about the terrible plague of the music changers.
The first thing I do when get a girl over to my shack is put on some music. Depending on the mood I’m trying to set, I’ll go with something like The Weeknd, Vanessa da Mata, or Michael Jackson. As I’m making drinks, if she goes to the laptop, cuts off my music, then pulls up her own music on YouTube, she’s only getting fucked that night and never again. Even though she wants to play “this one song,” I cut her crap off and put mine back on. I say, “If you wanted to listen to your music you should’ve invited me to your place.”
Anyone that touchy about someone changing his music is not exactly great boyfriend material.
Several more items reveal Roosh to be someone who bristles with rage whenever a woman, in his mind, disrespects him. If a woman texts someone while on a date and doesn’t apologize for it, for example, Roosh feels that “you might as well hand her your balls.”
And then his list gets very dark indeed. TRIGGER WARNING for rape apologia dark.
.
.
.
The Fifth Horseman of the Warning Sign Apocalypse is this: “Asking you to postpone your orgasm so she can gain more pleasure.”
As Roosh sees it,
If you’re about to bust your nut and a girl does tells you “No” or “Wait,” she’s an inconsiderate slut who is now causing you direct harm.
Wat.
A man’s nut is sacred, and for her to impede that should be criminal. I’m serious.
Backing away now.
One time a girl postponed my nut and then I lost it completely. I couldn’t get it back and I was left with minor groin pain. I never contacted her again.
What a terrible assault on Roosh’s manhood. He once experienced MINOR GROIN PAIN. That evil harlot should be locked up for life for the crime of a dude not having an orgasm once.
If all this seems a bit rapey, well, it gets worse with item #6: “Not urging you to continue pumping even if it’s starting to cause her discomfort,” in which Roosh explains that girlfriend-quality “girls” shouldn’t be permitted to say “stop” after agreeing to let a dude’s penis in.
I’ll tell you what love is: when a girl begs you to keep going even though you know she already came, even though she’s drying up, and even though you know it’s causing her pain.
I suppose it could be “love.” It could also be a rather different emotion known as “fear.” Fear that the angry, woman-hating asshole fucking you, who seems to erupt in rage whenever a woman disagrees with him, will flip out if you ask him to stop. And will keep going regardless.
If she tells you to stop the millisecond after she gets her nut, without you getting yours, I want you to tell her that the point of having sex with women is so a man doesn’t have to use his hand, and that she has performed below the hand.
What the fuck is wrong with you?
That’s why we do all this shit to bang women—to get our nut. If she can’t do that for us, then she’s useless as a living being.
If anyone tries to tell you that the “red pill” is really just about self-improvement for men, ask them to explain this.
If someone shows you an article from A Voice for Men arguing that “rape culture isn’t real,” show them this, and ask why they ran a long-two part interview with Roosh in which the interviewer wrote that Roosh was “a deep thinker,” and “a layered, tempered and earnest guy, who truly wants to help other men in their most basic and primal of life goals,” adding “I got nothing but respect for the guy.”
Roosh, you may recall, has also proposed legalizing rape on private property, which he bizarrely claims will bring an end to rape. I think it’s fairly clear that Roosh has no interest in ending rape. What he wants is for people to stop calling it rape. As he sees it, women saying “no” or “stop” or “get off me” are all an affront to the “sacred nut.” And we can’t have that.
EDIT: Minor edits to clarify a point.
If egg is good for your hair, Cadbury creme eggs are probably even better, so leave it in! Just watch out for ants.
RE: Alan
Yeah, we don’t have diminished responsibility here, as far as I know. (IANAL.) There’s just insanity or not. I… might have learned about this because it’s a common multi thought experiment. <.<
RE: ceebarks
You made me laugh in the library. Well played!
(forgive me, I do not know how to embed)
http://granitegrok.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/scrat-squirrel-nuts.png
holy crap! It embedded! Woah, the mammoth gods must be on my side today.
Eh, maybe? Just the way it was worded put me off a bit.
Yup, that’s pretty much that conversation in a nutshell. Except you forgot the part where she recommended sexist dating books, complete with calling women “bitches”.
That’s fair, paradoxicalIntention.
What about men who suffer from premature ejaculation?
Obviously they’re betas who couldn’t get laid in the first place! Premature Ejaculation doesn’t happen to ALPHA MALES! Our large, virile, throbbing members are the PINNACLE of male (and therefore the best) anatomy! [/sarcasm]
I suspect that Doosh wouldn’t even see premature ejaculation as something to “suffer” from. He’d probably think it was great…”bust a nut” super quick so you have to spend less time with a dirty feeeemale. Then again, this is the guy who thinks “minor groin pain” is the worst affliction known to man.
@friday jones –
Aaargh, now I want to add an adorable chorus of passenger pigeons to do the backup vocals! Though an alternating dodo/woodpecker “oogah-chaka” would add quite the je ne sais quois.
This image is swiftly getting out of my range of artistic competence. I may have to beg my bestie with a degree in studio art to accept a comission.
**
Everyone has very well covered why it’s so fucking gross to throw people with mental illnesses and disorders under the bus. The only thing that I will add to the “that’s so evil he must be sick” conversation is that in May and June of last year, that is EXACTLY what MRA’s were using to dismiss the admittedly misogyny and racism of the Isla Vista killer.
**
@because reasons
That reminds me of that troll we had who wanted to debate the “dating market” and whine about his love life and why his grandparents wouldn’t just die already and leave him an inheritance, were you here for that? He insisted that he needed a super-hot girlfriend, partly because he got off in the shortest amount of time if his partner was beautiful. I think it was katz who pointed out that he was trying to manufacture a life where he had the least amount of sex possible.
LBT,
I believe you’re correct: American law doesn’t generally use mental disability to “downgrade” one charge to a lesser charge in the way Alan describes. However, we do recognize it as a “mitigating factor” that can downgrade a punishment within the range for that crime. In Illinois if you shoot someone and they live, then you’ll be charged with “Battery with a Firearm” and sentenced to between 6 and 30 years. It’s very, very difficult to make an “insanity defense” that will get you out of being convicted. But, if you have schizophrenia, unusually debilitating autism, or a really extreme mood disorder, it’s very doable to have a doctor convince a judge you should get 6 or 10 and not 20 or 30.
@LBT:
“I thought the point of the mocking comment wasn’t Minter’s icon, it’s that she had it WHILE simultaneously claiming that you must have men make all the first move and do these things so as to get a good relationship. I thought it was the hypocrisy being mocked, not the icon itself.”
That’s exactly right. Thanks.
FM,
That troll was both hilarious and disturbing. Remember when he claimed he was going to commit suicide if he didn’t get his inheritance and a hot babe by the time he was 40?
He also thought that women were materialistic and shallow because they want furniture in their homes.
Fucking hell, that’s a sense of entitlement on part with that of Elliot Rodger. Quoted verbatim from his manifesto (this was said to his mother): “I told her that she should sacrifice her well-being for the sake of my happiness.”
Oh, yeah! I remember that troll. Mr. Undfreedland, whom I wrote a couple parody songs for.
“When I’m Middle Aged” to the tune of “When I’m Sixty-Four” for reasons.
I think the thread as a whole (and lots of contributions from Fibi!) also was working on a “You’re an A**hole” lyric set, to the tune of “Mr. Grinch”… just for him.
…he was also like a self parody of just how awful a person can be. Like, I was laughing my socks off because I couldn’t see how anyone could possibly be that awful.
I am so sorry I missed this troll. He sounded like a barrel of laughs.
“What do you mean you want a bed in the bedroom so you can sleep on?! You fucking shallow, materialistic harlot! Sleep on the floor like the rest of the bitches!”
Wow. I hope his grandparents didn’t leave him a red fucking cent (or something useless like a stock portfolio he can’t touch until he grows the fuck up). I hope they left it to his parents. Y’know, their children.
Am I crazy–excuse me, I meant am I mistaken–or did we already have this exact conversation with Lisa before? How does someone get called out once, go away, then come back to rant about conditions they can’t even spell and expect it to go well?
I liked Ice and Indigo’s post. It was interesting to me because I had never seen autism and sociopathy compared side by side like that. It was striking; it clarified some things I’d stumbled on in my own life, though also I think my life does hint at some gray areas. I’ve just recently come to accept that I’m autistic, but it was never diagnosed until I was 25. Before that, I used to worry sometimes that I might be sociopathic. Partly, I think it was imprecise language obscuring the difference between seeing and not caring and caring and not seeing. Partly, some of my thinking and behavior did resemble the sociopathic profile, but I eventually worked out that it was neither sociopathy nor an effect of autism; it was just training and learned habits.
What complicates it, is that I do think there are a couple areas of overlapping presentation, mainly to do with “charm.” I have a great deal of “superficial charm,” which I actually credit to my autism. When people say that folks on the spectrum find it more difficult to develop social skills, I think it’s worth remembering that “social skills” refers to a big bundle of pretty dissimilar aptitudes. We could try to be more precise about where the challenges are, but I’m tempted to resort to poetry. I like to say that superficial charm isn’t social skill so much as a substitute for social skill. I don’t make eye contact naturally; a lot of my natural body language is stiff and distant. But, trying to charm someone is an exercise in social performance that doesn’t come natural to almost anyone; I can force myself to hold someone’s eyes when I need to, probably better than most neurotypical people. In the same way, I get a lot of social confidence from my challenges in empathy. I’ve found that when it’s hard to read new people, one can either assume the worst and hang back or assume the best and dive in. Assuming that people will like you very often ensures that they do like you (as a group, on average).
Add to that the extreme focus on specialized interests (my interests are social and psychological) and I credit my place on the spectrum as the grounding for most of my social success.
I’d love it if people stopped equating illnesses people cannot help having with bigotry and hate people choose to have.
That’s very interesting – thanks Orion. It’s great for me personally, too: my boy’s language skills aren’t yet at the point where he can explain to me what it’s like to be him, so hearing from adults on the spectrum helps along my chances of understanding him. (I mean, I’ve got a pretty good guess on a lot of things – you raise a kid, you know him pretty well – but I don’t get to experience autism from the inside.)
And yes, that ’empathy’ thing is a bit confusing, isn’t it? People use it in a rather conflicted way. I think it goes on the assumption that accurately identifying what somebody is feeling, imagining yourself in their position, and experiencing compassion and fellow-feeling for them all automatically go together. And yes, if you don’t have any glitches in your information processing or damage in your emotional development, that can be true. But if somebody has difficulties with one or another of those, then the word suddenly gets a lot more complicated.
And ‘social skills’ is such a broad category too! Charm is one facet of social skills, of course, but even then there are two almost opposite ways of being charming: you can be charming in the sense that you consciously set out to charm someone, and you can be charming in the sense that you’re naturally endearing or delightful.
And with those … well, actually it’d even be too simple to say that one’s sociopathic and one’s autistic. It sounds like you make quite a conscious effort to be charming, for instance, and with my son – well, he is endearing in an unstudied way (I swear this isn’t just parenthood talking, his freaking medical reports say that about him), but he’s also quite the charmer. He doesn’t quite understand how to have a conversation, but he definitely wants to make connections with people, and he’ll flirt and fool around and tease and joke for exactly the reasons you say: it’s a way of connecting with people that doesn’t require complex understanding. So yes, he’s naturally ‘charming’ in that he’s appealing, but he also tries to charm people because in many ways it’s simpler, and thus within his capacity.
I don’t think I’d call that ‘superficial’, though, at least as regards my own boy. For him, I’d say it comes out of a pretty profound place, which is that he loves feeling friendly with people and is doing what he can to make that happen. (Same as most of us do, really, autistic or not.) The non-sociopathic thing about it is that for him, friendly feelings are rewarding in themselves: they’re not just something you manipulate in order to get material comforts, they’re inherently comforting.
Can I ask: is there any insight you can recommend for him that you’d say was particularly helpful when it comes to managing that ‘want to be friendly’/’find it hard to grasp the nuances’ balance? (Obviously don’t feel obliged if you’re not in the mood!)
Sigh. It’s such a shame autism is so stigmatized. Lots of things are, of course, but I don’t think that you get so many people assuming that dyslexia or epilepsy means your kid must be callous and selfish…
@WWTH
Yes, I do. I felt kind of bad at the time, because I felt like I should take a suicide threat seriously. But that one just smacked of a spoiled kid pitching a tantrum. “If I don’t get what I want, you’ll be sorry!” He was just such a friggin’ mess.
Holy cats, I’d forgotten about the songs, contrapangloss! Those were amazing.
If anyone wants to relive the glory, the thread is here. Undfreeland makes his debut on page two. Be warned, it’s over 2,000 comments long. It is, however, also chock full of win.
On the Elliot Rodger stuff: having briefly peeked at Elliot Rodger’s writings, there’s no way he didn’t have narcissism to the point of a full-blown personality disorder, which would be a diagnosis of a mental problem but wouldn’t be sufficient to let someone off the hook for criminal acts (unless you have a really stupid jury like the one that accepted the “affluenza” defense). Importantly, that he was almost certainly diagnosable with a personality disorder doesn’t mean that his culture didn’t matter: I’d wager it was the *combination of* our cultural ills and his own munitions-grade narcissism that led to the Isla Vista shootings.
On social skills, my own experiences corroborate some of the other posters here: being an INTP nerd who wasn’t born with the natural social graces others seemed to take for granted in my youth, it’s not simply that some people have social skills and some don’t, but, as Orion said, different people have *different* social skills. Having to *learn* to understand other people gives you different insights than would be had by someone to whom it comes naturally. I’m as prone to hearing what someone *doesn’t* say as much as what they *do* say, for instance.
@Flying Mouse
No, I don’t remember that. Ewww.
Undfreeland? I’ll never forget.
@Ice,
I don’t have any insight into that kind of childhood awkwardness, or thwarted attempts at friendship. I was pretty indifferent to the existence of other people until my early teens. I had few close friends, but I wasn’t lonely; I was happy reading books or playing games by myself for indefinitely long periods. The biggest subjective problem I had was that I was hypersensitive to embarrassment or awkward *situations*; I spent way too much time feeling absolutely mortified about things that were no big deal, so in retrospect I remember myself as socially awkward. But, I had a pretty good poker face and half of the things that embarrassed me wouldn’t have been regarded as embarrassing by anyone else, so nobody from looking at me from outside would have said “awkward.”
As an adult, I don’t have a good answer either. I used to look at socializing as a numbers game, with relative disinterest in other people’s comfort. It was like a PUA approach to friendship. I figured that because there’s only space in your life for a few meaningful friendships, and calibrating yourself to individual expectations and group norms is hard, I would just craft myself a vivid/outrageous/larger-than-life persona and jump straight into the middle of any situation without worrying about how individual others responded. The theory was that my persona would “work” for some people, really not work for others, and they would quickly sort themselves out.
I eventually figured out the problems with this plan but I haven’t settled on a cogent new strategy.