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"A man’s nut is sacred," pickup douchebag Roosh V declares. And it gets worse from there.

One Warning Sign A Guy Is a Rapey Creep: He's This Guy
Roosh V: One Giant Warning Sign

The We Hunted the Mammoth Pledge Drive continues! If you haven’t already, please consider sending some bucks my way. (The PayPal page will say you are donating to Man Boobz.) Thanks!

The lovely piece of human garbage that is Roosh Valizadeh recently posted a helpful little list of “6 Warning Signs A Girl Isn’t Worth A Relationship.”

It’s a bit of an ironic list, in that Roosh, a self-described expat “love tourist” who makes his living giving men terrible dating advice, inadvertently provides any “girls” reading his list 6 Clear Warning Signs That Roosh is an Angry Sexual Predator Who Should Be Avoided at All Costs.

Roosh starts by warning his readers about the terrible plague of the music changers.

The first thing I do when get a girl over to my shack is put on some music. Depending on the mood I’m trying to set, I’ll go with something like The Weeknd, Vanessa da Mata, or Michael Jackson. As I’m making drinks, if she goes to the laptop, cuts off my music, then pulls up her own music on YouTube, she’s only getting fucked that night and never again. Even though she wants to play “this one song,” I cut her crap off and put mine back on. I say, “If you wanted to listen to your music you should’ve invited me to your place.”

Anyone that touchy about someone changing his music is not exactly great boyfriend material.

Several more items reveal Roosh to be someone who bristles with rage whenever a woman, in his mind, disrespects him. If a woman texts someone while on a date and doesn’t apologize for it, for example, Roosh feels that “you might as well hand her your balls.”

And then his list gets very dark indeed. TRIGGER WARNING for rape apologia dark.

.

.

.

The Fifth Horseman of the Warning Sign Apocalypse is this: Asking you to postpone your orgasm so she can gain more pleasure.”

As Roosh sees it,

If you’re about to bust your nut and a girl does tells you “No” or “Wait,” she’s an inconsiderate slut who is now causing you direct harm.

Wat.

A man’s nut is sacred, and for her to impede that should be criminal. I’m serious.

Backing away now.

One time a girl postponed my nut and then I lost it completely. I couldn’t get it back and I was left with minor groin pain. I never contacted her again.

What a terrible assault on Roosh’s manhood. He once experienced MINOR GROIN PAIN. That evil harlot should be locked up for life for the crime of a dude not having an orgasm once.

If all this seems a bit rapey, well, it gets worse with item #6: “Not urging you to continue pumping even if it’s starting to cause her discomfort,” in which Roosh explains that girlfriend-quality “girls” shouldn’t be permitted to say “stop” after agreeing to let a dude’s penis in.

I’ll tell you what love is: when a girl begs you to keep going even though you know she already came, even though she’s drying up, and even though you know it’s causing her pain.

I suppose it could be “love.” It could also be a rather different emotion known as “fear.” Fear that the angry, woman-hating asshole fucking you, who seems to erupt in rage whenever a woman disagrees with him, will flip out if you ask him to stop. And will keep going regardless.

If she tells you to stop the millisecond after she gets her nut, without you getting yours, I want you to tell her that the point of having sex with women is so a man doesn’t have to use his hand, and that she has performed below the hand.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

That’s why we do all this shit to bang women—to get our nut. If she can’t do that for us, then she’s useless as a living being.

If anyone tries to tell you that the “red pill” is really just about self-improvement for men, ask them to explain this.

If someone shows you an article from A Voice for Men arguing that “rape culture isn’t real,” show them this, and ask why they ran a long-two part interview with Roosh in which the interviewer wrote that Roosh was “a deep thinker,” and “a layered, tempered and earnest guy, who truly wants to help other men in their most basic and primal of life goals,” adding “I got nothing but respect for the guy.”

Roosh, you may recall, has also proposed legalizing rape on private property, which he bizarrely claims will bring an end to rape. I think it’s fairly clear that Roosh has no interest in ending rape. What he wants is for people to stop calling it rape. As he sees it, women saying “no” or “stop” or “get off me” are all an affront to the “sacred nut.” And we can’t have that.

EDIT: Minor edits to clarify a point.

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Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
6 years ago

I’m borderline ace, so I don’t have a lot of experience with sex, but I think I’d be willing to go through a little pain to help somebody I actually *cared* about have some pleasure. That said, anybody who cared about me probably wouldn’t want me to do that.

So you’d think some alternative option would be the way to go so that everybody’s satisfied and happy.

But in that scenario you’d have to care about the person you’re with, at least on a basis of “I want to make this person feel good so that this is a great experience for them AND me!” That’s not a super-high bar to vault, unless you’re Roosh and don’t care about anyone but yourself. And if you don’t care that much, why bother with people? Why not just get a sex toy? I don’t get it.

I can’t even imagine how awful he must be in bed. And I don’t want to.

He’s obviously an unreliable narrator of his experiences, and I’d love to hear what really happens from any of the unfortunate women who’ve suffered his presence for a night (or even a few minutes).

Kate Minter
6 years ago

Paradoxical Intention: Take a break, but don’t give up!

“One, it wears me out physically. I don’t have the energy to do dating, especially with someone who likes to go hang out at bars and the like.”

How many dates are you going on a week? If its more than one after careful screening of prospects, that is too much. Do you date people you meet in daily life, or do you use online dating? Men dislike online dating because it does favor women, but if you’re truly looking for that movie buff, online dating is a *very* effective screening machine. It sounds like you’re also looking for an introvert. That kind of person would more likely be found online than working up the courage to ask you out in person.

“Two, there’s always the worry that I’ll run into assholes like this” Actually, I think it’s easy to avoid these types when you are confident in yourself and have boundaries. If you let those guidelines slide, yes, they start coming out of the woodwork. For instance, you don’t accept last minute dates, you don’t let a man make sexual allusions, you don’t initiate contact with him, etc. For your effort, you get him initiating contact with you, treating you with respect, looking forward to spending time with you. A great dating book you might appreciate is called The Rules. There’s even an update called The Rules for Online Dating (I never read it, just applied the original rules). I also liked Dating Without Drama and Why Men Marry Bitches. Good luck in love!

Just remember: love does not hurt. Love does not degrade.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

A great dating book you might appreciate is called The Rules.

I think that this is the first time I’ve ever seen the The Rules recommended in a feminist space. Did they change a lot in the updated version that was released a few years ago? Because the copy I browsed back when I was in college was a lot of basically a lot of manipulative cat and mouse games; I wasn’t impressed.

Lisa
Lisa
6 years ago

Off Topic but Robert Lindsey does it again. He’s reposting “Masculine Feminine Dualities Chart” (all negative for females of course), proudly boasting:

“This is one of my most popular posts.” and “This post made a lot of women mad. They called it sexist and left the blog or got banned. Oh well. I happen to think there is something to this.”

https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/03/21/masculine-feminine-dualities-chart-2/

I think there is an element of self destruction, self loathing and a desire for punishment with him. Repeatedly he comes out with an anti-female/gay/trans/etc post. Argues with the females/gay/trans commentators (yes he has had some) and becomes ever more insulting and cruder until they leave (or as I did, get infuriated. and use some of his nasty, offensive langauge right back at him and then get banned).

The recent classic is the ‘…love dick’ stuff. Now he could have made the same argument with a far softer language, like ‘…really enjoy sex’, but he deliberately uses crude, offensive terms to piss people off (particularly females and any normal males) and drive them away.

What he is left with are the most misogynist (and because of other topics) racist people.

I wonder if he talks to people like this in real life, isolating himself as more and more people get fed up with it, leaving him with just a few (and probably pretty creepy) guys to spend time with.

Bluecollarnerd
6 years ago
Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
6 years ago

Re: Robert Lindsay:

Yeeeeeeeeeeah. Men’s thinking is objective, women’s is subjective. Sure. Like that whole list is toooootally objective and quantitative and provable.

The list is self-refuting.

M.
M.
6 years ago

@Flying Mouse

Kate Minter is a feMRA married to a particularly nasty MRA and posts nonsense around here on occasion; take anything she says with a grain of salt.

seraph4377
6 years ago

@ Flying Mouse – Looked it up. There have been sequels, but no update. The Rules is as you remember it. Kate Minter is not a feminist, and generally only comes into feminist spaces to bring the wisdom of anti-feminism…by doing things like recommending The Rules.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

@M and seraph4377 – I’ve been giving her posts the side-eye for a bit, but wasn’t clued into the backstory. That makes me feel better.

That The Rules are still the same-old, same-old (but with an extra special advice for online reindeer games) does not make me feel better.

Kestrel
Kestrel
6 years ago

@Paradoxical – I would do dating as you feel comfortable and have the energy. I think online dating is great for those who are shy. I wouldn’t expect dates to find you, so try to reach out to people who interest you when you find them.

As for avoiding asshats, I would trust your gut.

Best of luck out there. ????

NicolaLuna
NicolaLuna
6 years ago

There’s not many people I hate but I truly hate Roosh. I hate his cold, dead eyes. I hate his sense of entitlement.

The way he brags about rape is so triggering for me. I was pretty much unconscious when I was raped by a friend and wasn’t 100% sure what had happened until I was at a party a couple of weeks later and overheard my rapist bragging about how he fucked me while I was passed out. The guys he was bragging to were laughing about it.

To be honest I’ve found this site really healing because it makes me feel a little safer to know that other people see that behaviour (having sex with passed out people and bragging about it) as detestable. So thanks for being awesome.

GhostBird
GhostBird
6 years ago

@Lisa

Lists like those always amuse me. I usually wind up going through them and finding ‘oh golly jee, I guess I’m a man! Who knew?!’ Obviously virtually every human being in the world splits the difference between any of those extremes (aside from the ‘hot/cold’ aspect. What is this, silly binaries constructed off of a desire for clear cut answers? Oh wait), but I’m not terribly good with expressing emotion and have a crap load of cut throat ambition, which to these wastes of space is only compatible with cis men. And it gives me great pleasure to be the stuff of their nightmares.

Linax5
Linax5
6 years ago

ohh my god.

Just saw a talkshow in the ukraine where Roosh was the guest and they talked about sex tourism, his book ”bang ukraine” and also about harassment towards women.

A lady walked by into the studio, claimed( I believe her) that Roosh followed her and harassed her on the street…

A woman said ‘ohh but look at you, you look like a slut! You cant walk around like this..”

..but WHAT THE FUCK?

These people really think that women who dress like this deserve to be harassed….holy shit.

Ironically this lady (the slut shamer) had almost the same revealing skirt lol xD

It hurted my heart that those people, right after a woman talked about her experience asked ‘but did you behave slutty”?….instead of actually listening to her!!!

and instead of blaming the predator…..

One woman said (proudly) ”Oh I like to go clubbing and drink…but I NEVER was harassed because I don’t behave like a whore”…..yeah no comment….. its not the fault of the men, boys will be boys…..and these stupid ”sluts” deserve to be touched and harassed! I mean they are totally asking for it!

Another woman said that women who ‘give their vagina to easily away and sleep with many stangers are the REAL problem for all this…seemingly no one complained about roosh talking about how many times he paid women for sex….AAAAAGHHH

Just wanted to share it here so that you can see in what kind of a society roosh feels good.
You can watch this show on youtube, if your heart is strong enough to endure all this victim blaming and slut shaming.

In america people wouldnt be that harsh…. but in the ukraine they really just want to be blame the women

🙁 (Im russian my english isnt really well…)

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

NicolaLuna
I’m sorry that happened to you and we are glad that you are here
http://www.pictures88.com/p/hugs/hugs_046.jpg

About Doosh I’m starting think that he hasnt been sleeping with that many women that he boasts too. Maybe he only has been with sex workers? Still a virgin? Or he really did rape somebody? I don’t know but he clearly hasn’t been paying attention to sex Ed and haven’t read enough about the female body.

Linax5
Linax5
6 years ago

””a couple of weeks later and overheard my rapist bragging about how he fucked me while I was passed out. The guys he was bragging to were laughing about it.””’

Yeah because boys can do whatever they want, rape a person and still brag about it.

I also heard someone who brag about sleeping with a woman. He openly admit that he made her super drunk,I remember him saying someting like ”hehe she couldnt even talk”

Reminds me of steubenville.

Arent these men ashamed to even brag about their sexuality?…..openly in front of evereyone..?? Not that I think having CONSENSUAL sex is bad…but you don’t really need to brag, its disrespectful.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Lea | March 22, 2015 at 1:26 pm
I think the only person who actually believes that line is that ice clinking Lex Luther impersonator in a cowboy hat.

He’s not a Lex Luthor impersonator! Don’t be so mean, Lea! Lex actually does shit!

M. | March 22, 2015 at 3:48 pm
Kate Minter is a feMRA married to a particularly nasty MRA and posts nonsense around here on occasion; take anything she says with a grain of salt.

Thanks for that, M. I’m glad I read the entire thread before I went to answer her post to me.

Kate Minter | March 22, 2015 at 2:31 pm
Paradoxical Intention: Take a break, but don’t give up!

That’s what I was doing currently. I don’t have the energy (nor am I in a good place in my life) to consider dating.

How many dates are you going on a week? If its more than one after careful screening of prospects, that is too much. Do you date people you meet in daily life, or do you use online dating?

I’m not currently going on any dates, because, again, I’m not in a good place in my life, nor do I have the energy to expend on it. If I were to consider dating at the moment, it would have to be online, as I don’t get out much due to job searching and a very nasty mix of anxiety/depression right now.

Men dislike online dating because it does favor women, but if you’re truly looking for that movie buff, online dating is a *very* effective screening machine. It sounds like you’re also looking for an introvert. That kind of person would more likely be found online than working up the courage to ask you out in person.

Yeah, because having to wade through tons of unsolicited dick picks and “Hey, wanna fuck?” messages is totally “favoring women”. Sorry if I don’t see all attention as positive attention. I’d rather get a message like “Hi! I read your profile, and see that you like _____ too! What’s your favorite thing about ______? Mine’s ______!”

And let’s face it, plenty of people won’t bother reading a profile, because they’re too busy messaging every person they think they can get an easy fuck out of.

Here’s something you might be interested in. A guy made a fake dating profile to prove that women had it easier than men when it came to online dating.

Also, I’m not only into cisgendered men, so there’s that. Being pansexual does give me options.

Actually, I think it’s easy to avoid these types when you are confident in yourself and have boundaries. If you let those guidelines slide, yes, they start coming out of the woodwork. For instance, you don’t accept last minute dates, you don’t let a man make sexual allusions, you don’t initiate contact with him, etc.

Not really. I know plenty of confident women who have boundaries who still have to put up with assholes on a regular basis both online and off. Most of them ignore anything these women have to say and throw a tantrum when the boundaries are not put down for them.

And constantly having to defend my boundaries (and update my message filters) while they’re being tossed aside by assholes who don’t respect them is irritating, and I don’t have the patience for it at the moment.

A great dating book you might appreciate is called The Rules. There’s even an update called The Rules for Online Dating (I never read it, just applied the original rules). I also liked Dating Without Drama and Why Men Marry Bitches. Good luck in love!

I’ll pass on the book recommendations (Why the fuck would I read a book that calls women “bitches” right on the cover?), but thanks for your good wishes.

Just remember: love does not hurt. Love does not degrade.

At least that’s something we can agree on.

Chris Wilson
6 years ago

Hey Isisdore, I checked out your link to Nairaland, and it looks like Roosh says he developed his little list while he was using his hand in Scandinavia, but he actually plagiarized half the list from a Nigerian forum. That would explain why the English in Roosh’s post sounds a bit stilted to us. I bet Roosh thought no one would ever notice half the content of his post originated from somewhere else. How did you catch that?

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

Linax5
I’m stunned… Im posting these to represent my reaction to thiscomment image
http://media.giphy.com/media/tRL7xf0bFPV04/giphy-facebook_s.jpg
http://www.somegif.com/gifs/1363588445823567319.GIF
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120818010619/icarly/images/9/91/Why_are_people_soo_stupid!.gif
http://www.nkayesel.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/stop-behavin-so-stupid.gif
This garbage right here is why men and boys think they could do whatever they want and get away with it is because we let them! Poor woman I hope she will be ok.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

Kestrel | March 22, 2015 at 4:14 pm
@Paradoxical – I would do dating as you feel comfortable and have the energy. I think online dating is great for those who are shy. I wouldn’t expect dates to find you, so try to reach out to people who interest you when you find them.

As for avoiding asshats, I would trust your gut.

Best of luck out there.

I wouldn’t expect them to find me, either. But, unfortunately, reaching out to people sometimes for me is hard, even online. I still try to do my best though.

And thanks for the good wishes. :3

I’m most likely not going to start dating for a while (I have plans to move out of state as soon as I get the money), so I’m going to work on building myself up for a bit first.

Chris Wilson
6 years ago

Oops, I just looked at the dates on the posts, and it looks like the guy in the Nigerian forum took it from Roosh, Mea culpa Roosh. You are not a plagiarist. A lot of other bad things, but not that.

Linax5
Linax5
6 years ago

Yeah I felt also sorry for this woman.

We put the standards for women really high, while for men really low.

Naturallly women will be blamed for whatever men do to them (Except they are covered and in the kitchen)

Kestrel
Kestrel
6 years ago

@NicolaLuna – I am sorry that happened to you. Zen hugs if you want them.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

Linax5
“Naturallly women will be blamed for whatever men do to them (Except they are covered and in the kitchen)”

Actually we are blamed for that too. “Why are you with him?” Does that sound familiar?

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

Ah, I also failed to compare dates. Foolishness!

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
6 years ago

I don’t even think the standards for women are standards, since most of them are contradictory with each other and therefore impossible.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

You know, I went out for puppy therapy yesterday, and it really made me feel better. I just stopped by a local pet store and they had adoptable dogs, so I got my face licked and saw an episode of puppy wrestlemania (I have kitty wrestlemania going permanently in my apartment).

I also got to talk pets with a woman shopping with her shih tzu in the cart, that I also got to pet.

I’m going to think about the adorable puppies.

ej
ej
6 years ago

Out of curiosity, I went to read the preview of The New Rules available on Amazon. I only made it through a few paragraphs before I read that following the rules will get you a man who is “obsessed” with you.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbhnuzRZ961rrpsd7.gif

Is that something I’m supposed to want? Having someone be obsessed with me sounds miserable. That sounds like a really unhealthy relationship.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

Jarnsaxa
Cover up but dress sexy but not too sexy or you are distracting men/boys also asking for it but don’t cover up too much or you are a prude.

Say yes you are a s*ut, say no you are a b*tch

Wear makeup you are a wh*re, don’t wear make up you are ugly

Give nice guys a chance so what if he is an abuser he wouldn’t be that way if you would just be with them. Why are you with an abuser? Proof that women like assholes

Cover up if you want men and boys to respect you. Says the guy without a shirt

Etc, etc and etc “Boy! Women sure are complicated!” Says the Misognists who made all this contradicting and hyprocritical garbage in the first place.

Tells girls and women to remain virgin til marriage, tell guys to have much sex as much as possible but homosexuality is a sin. Is the world telling guys to go f*** themselves?

sn0rkmaiden
6 years ago

@Aunt Edna

There’s a post about it here from the Naughty Nomad forum. The poster got banned for his pains:

naughtynomadforum.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2703

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
6 years ago

Yep. They’re not standards so much as gotchas.

baroncognito
6 years ago

Why the fuck would I read a book that calls women “bitches” right on the cover?

I can think of at least three reasons.

1) The text of the book consists, in its entirety, of “Because bitches be awesome!” or something to that effect.

2) It is written, entirely straight, about the dangers of men marrying dogs, so it isn’t actually calling women bitches.

3) Someone paid you to.

suffrajitsu
suffrajitsu
6 years ago

The first thing I thought of re: a man’s “nut” was “nuts”, i.e. testicles. I saw that quote and couldn’t help but wonder if there was a reason Roosh was using the singular.

And oh, gosh, I’m so sick of the “men are rational, women are emotional” thing. First off, the whole idea of reason vs. emotion is more often than not just used by sociopaths to dress up their lack of empathy as “logic”; science in fact has shown that thought and feeling are not as mutually exclusive as once believed. And second, people always conveniently overlook certain emotions that are stereotypically masculine when putting down women for their supposed feels and hysteria. Men commit the vast majority of murders, assaults, road rage, etc. Aren’t anger, impulsivity, violence etc. “emotions”???

Lisa
Lisa
6 years ago

Yep suffrajitsu . I’d add Ausberger sysndrome to the sociopaths too. Though tests show that sociopaths show low levels of rationality and have poor impulse control.

For Wiki: Under ICD-10: dissocial personality disorder shows

Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
Marked readiness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Now I have the Fratellis’ “Got Mah Nuts From A Hippie” stuck in my head. (Note plural.)

If she tells you to stop the millisecond after she gets her nut, without you getting yours, I want you to tell her that the point of having sex with women is so a man doesn’t have to use his hand, and that she has performed below the hand.

Roosh’s nut isn’t about actually getting his nut, it’s about abusing and degrading women. Otherwise, the hand would be a perfectly acceptable alternative. He’s mad, not because he failed to orgasm, but because he failed to feel dominant. Thus the need to insult her immediately after sex.

Anyway, I call bullshit on this scenario being all that common – more often, if someone’s finishing first, it’s the guy. Roosh doesn’t strike me as the type who’s experienced or considerate enough to delay climax.

@suffrajitsu – Hear, hear. I get really tired of logic being privileged above emotion – as if logic is always superior in every situation for understanding what’s going on. You hear some of these logical manosphere guys trying to decribe human interaction logically, and missing the mark by a country mile (while sounding like an extraterrestrial anthropologist, sent here by a robot civilization to probe our strange ways).

Most of their “logic” is self-serving, contradictory, and has holes you could drive a battleship through. It’s kind of hilarious how they expect automatic deference by whipping out the MANLOGIC!!!! card.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

::Guy does or says something horrible::

Society: “boys will be boys” “Manlogic!”

Women/girls: “I’m scared of guys now” “I don’t want to date anymore”

Society: “Oh my gosh stop being sexist! Not all men!”

M.
M.
6 years ago

… Somebody slap down Lisa’s post before I do.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

Lisa
NOPE!!!!! DONT COMPARE THOSE TWO! BEING AN A-HOLE IS NOT THE SAME AS A MENTAL ILLNESS!!!

isidore13
isidore13
6 years ago

Lisa, first, sociopathy is not a thing. Second, you don’t know shit about psychology, stop it quoting a fucking book you don’t understand. Third, just shut the fuck up. Fourth, stop trying to armchair diagnose every asshole on the planet. That is not what psychology is for. Fifth, seriously, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Spindrift
Spindrift
6 years ago

Aspergers is neither a card you can play to get out of criticism of your aweful words nor a magical source of misogyny, and I wish people would stop treating it as such. Nor is it synonymous with sociopathy or psychopathy. There’s a big difference between having a hard time expressing emotions or empathy in a conventional way and not feeling them at all.

Spindrift
Spindrift
6 years ago

And ofc, explaining away aweful people as simply having mental issues excuses their actions and stigmatises perfectly decent people who actually struggle with said issues.

Paradoxical Intention
6 years ago

And it gives those assholes an out to explain away their shitty behavior on something other than the fact that they made the conscious choice to be a week-old bag of sweaty jockstraps.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
6 years ago

I really hope David gets those new rules up soon.

I have a mental illness myself, and as much as I dislike it when people pin bad behavior on mental illness, seeing commenters ripped apart for it is also very uncomfortable, like seeing a coworker dressed down by an angry boss.

Please just post the rule against it, David. Please.

I don’t want to see this crap keep happening over and over again like this. Maybe I’m too sensitive on the whole topic of mental illness to read the comments here anymore and should just step back, actually. Yeah, this is on me, not on anybody else. Sorry, I’ll just butt out.

suffrajitsu
suffrajitsu
6 years ago

Agreed that comparing assholery to Asperger’s was way uncool and really sorry if my using “sociopath” was inappropriate. I hadn’t realized it might be offensive and I’m sorry if I opened up a can of worms.

@Buttercup: Cracked had a recent article debunking the “emotions get in the way of reason” myth–they cited studies on people with damage in the orbitofrontal cortex, which connects to the amygdala, but no other part of the brain. The implication is that emotions are not only connected to rational decision-making, they’re actually necessary for it:

This stunted his ability to emote but kept his intelligence the same, but instead of turning into an unstoppable logic machine, he found himself struggling with even the simplest everyday problems. What to have for lunch, what kind of pen to use, where to park his car — all these simple decisions turned into “what should I say in my inaugural speech?” level dilemmas. He’s not a unique case, either: Patients with OFC damage often become completely rational but can’t make decisions — because they don’t have emotions to lead them the right way.

Also, if I weren’t listening to Courtney Barnett’s new album I’d suddenly be in the mood to put on Costello Music.

Lisa
Lisa
6 years ago

“BEING AN A-HOLE IS NOT THE SAME AS A MENTAL ILLNESS!!!”. Yep, but some people are assholes because they have at least a degree of mental illness (or personality disorder), sociopathy being one of them.

If we are going to deal with this now and change it for the future then understanding at least some of the causes is the first step.
Yes it is shallow to label all of this behaviour as ‘mental illness’, but so is just labelling it all as ‘assholes’….Some I have read seem to me to be borderline, at least.

You read these PUA mantras and it’s like an instruction manual on sociopathic behaviour. They either are really like that or they aspire to be like that for some daft reason.
At the extreme end of the spectrum I see people that are just a tiny step away from violence, rape or murder and as such I see them as much more dangerous than some think.
At its very, very worst level we have a young girl being stabbed to death in a park in broad daylight here in Melbourne. How far off of that are some of these extremists or the people they influence?

The majority of western men for all their faults don’t behave like that. Yes everyone has their niggles, petty prejudices, episodes of inappropriate (even downright rude) behaviour, along with periods of anger and disappointment towards the other gender and sexual types, but nothing compared to the consistently extreme levels of these misogynists, PUAs and so on (who all claim a mantle of ‘logic’ while twisting logic into a mangled pretzel).

For example, what causes young, reasonably well brought up, fairly prosperous and not that dumb males to think and behave like this? What the heck has gone wrong here?
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/03/21/3637251/fraternity-suspended-notebook-detailing-rape-lynching/

Where does ‘asshole’ behaviour cross over into sociopathic, even psychopathic behaviour?

Maybe it is just I see some of these people being a lot sicker and more dangerous than some others here think. Yes it easy to laugh at them about their stupid ideas, but some of them really are monsters and/or they can influence other monsters.

Before you ask, yes I have had personal experience of the mental illness of others up close and personal, as well as my own long battles with depression, it’s not an alien world to me.

Hambeast (formerly twincats)
Hambeast (formerly twincats)
6 years ago

I didn’t think this thread would still be going today!

Flying Mouse, if you make that coffee mug I’d totally buy one.

I still can’t even with this new roosh stuff. Everyone else has said it so much better already anyhow.

Leda Atomica
Leda Atomica
6 years ago

“For example, what causes young, reasonably well brought up, fairly prosperous and not that dumb males to think and behave like this? What the heck has gone wrong here?”

How about a society that roots for the strong to put down the weak, declares bullies as winners and values cold, abusive behaviour as alpha?
Sick society makes sick individuals. Mental illness is a whole other thing and I wish people would stop throwing it around as a handy bogeyman. People suffering of mental illnesses are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.

I know it’s difficult to accept that the scale of the problem with assholery is massive and goes to the core of the culture we’ve built. But that is where the headwaters of pain lie. Stop othering the problem, and stop othering people with mental health issues.

katz
6 years ago

Lisa, seriously, you should back down on this one. People here aren’t just going to go “Hmm, you’re right, let’s go ahead and assume that whenever men do horrible things, it’s because they’re mentally ill.”

Wetherby
Wetherby
6 years ago

Lisa, unless you have solid, professionally-certified evidence that each person you’re talking about has a mental illness, you’re indulging in guesswork.

And guesswork of a kind that many people here find extremely offensive.

And continuing to indulge in this guesswork after it’s been made clear that many people here find it extremely offensive makes you an insensitive asshole.

Now I could go further and offer an amateur diagnosis that attempts to get to the roots of just why you’re being an insensitive asshole, but I’m not going to because:

(a) without far more copious evidence, I’d most likely be wrong;
(b) even with such evidence, I lack the professional expertise to be able to draw valid conclusions from it;
(c) regardless of what I posted, you’d probably find the result grossly insensitive and intrusive given that it’s been aired in a public forum;
(d) I’d be an utter hypocrite.

Although (d) is a very minor reason indeed compared with my first three points.

So stop it.

Spindrift
Spindrift
6 years ago

@lisa
“Maybe it is just I see some of these people being a lot sicker and more dangerous than some others here think.”

We can fully accept that they’re very dangerous and unsettling without declaring them mentally ill.
A sexist culture will bring about sexist people, some of whom will absorb the very most toxic elements within it, they don’t have to be insane to accept those ideas. Just like growing up with a hatefully twisted version of religion or within a racist group can lead to sane people thinking it’s alright to kill for whatever reason. Or just like how a competative greedy society encourages the exploitation of the weak for personal gain. It’s not insane to manipulate food stock prices causing them to go up and make living more expensive, not within a system that rewards you for doing so. Most of them can feel empathy for others, but they’ve dehumanised their chosen enemies so much (in their own minds) that they don’t empathise with them specifically, they’re just dirty infidels, they’re just inferior non-whites, they’re just numbers, they’re just sluts, etc.

The most harmful people are often perfectly sane people who have simply rationalised their hatred to themselves as logical or neccessary. And when they are mentally ill that’s more likely to be coincidence than to be directly contributing to their hateful ideology.

tl dr :Anyone can be an A-hole if their environment lets them or actively encourages them.

Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

Cracked had a recent article debunking the “emotions get in the way of reason” myth–they cited studies on people with damage in the orbitofrontal cortex, which connects to the amygdala, but no other part of the brain. The implication is that emotions are not only connected to rational decision-making, they’re actually necessary for it:

I haven’t read the Cracked article, but it might be Antonio Damasio’s research you’re referring to? People with damages to the “emotion-parts” of the brain are way worse when it comes to playing a card game where you can draw cards and win money. There’s a certain pattern there to find to get a steady win. People with a normal range of emotions find that pattern rather quickly via gut feeling. People with emotional damages need to find this pattern via conscious thinking, which takes more time – but what’s really strange is that they irrationally deviate from the winning pattern even after they have figured it out.

Yeah, it’s pretty well established in psychology that we do not, as some influential philosophers have historically argued for, have one reason faculty and one separate emotion faculty. Nor is it the case, as no philosopher I know of have argued for (Kant comes close occasionally, but even he does not go that far), but some perhaps not-so-reasonable-people like to believe, that emotions are merely a hindrance for reason.

Obviously emotions can interfere with reason. I believe we can all come up with examples from our own life where this happened. I guess that’s where the “emotions are always a hindrance for reason” myth comes from. But that’s really far from the case.