Yes, MRAs, you’re right: Teaching men not to rape IS like teaching drivers not to run people over.
Where you go wrong is in assuming that teaching people either of these things is ridiculous. Learning about consent is a good thing for men, and for women. So is learning to drive before you get behind the wheel.
That’s why driver’s ed classes — which generally promote a “no hitting people with your car” doctrine — are a standard part of the high school curriculum, and why would-be drivers have to take a driver’s test before they get their licence. Running people over during the test itself is generally frowned upon, and may preclude you from passing it.
Should we assume that MRAs would also prefer it if men didn’t have to pass driver’s test in order to drive? Are they so insulted by the notion of anyone telling them what to do that we should abandon any and all moral and practical teachings aimed at boys and men?
Are they still pissed off at their mothers (and/or fathers) for insisting, when they were young boys, that they not run around punching people? Are they still angry that their parents forced them to start using the toilet instead of shitting their pants?
I suppose these questions are better left up to the professionals.
In the meantime, here are a couple more iterations of this ridiculous meme. The first one I found on AVFM’s Facebook page a while ago. I don’t remember where I found the other one.
@sunnysombrera
I understand this completely. I myself was in a very good position to inflict maximum pain/damage to the guy, but chose to “‘go along” with the attack because he’d already almost choked me out and I feared he was very capable of killing me.
@Alan
Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but if you are implying that one should always fight back, and that one of the reasons is because it doesn’t increase risk of injury- that’s simply NOT true. First, the option to fight back may not exist. Even if it does, there are plenty of reasons why it may not be wise or safe to do so, but ultimately that is up to the person who’s being attacked. I don’t have a source but I know for sure that in some instances attempting to fight back angers the attacker even more and may escalate things- see my story above for a good example of why I didn’t fight back.
Hi because reasons
Obviously it’s up to the person attacked how they respond; the victim bears no responsibility for what happens and has no ‘duty’ to do anything.
There’s plenty of peer reviewed research though to show that fighting back doesn’t escalate the chances of violence, quite the contrary. Predators are selfish and have strong self preservation instincts (even sociopaths) and risk of injury usually makes them disengage (you know you’re safe when they start hurling abuse).
In cases where victims have suffered injury the injuries are nearly always caused *before* the response and in fact it’s the injury that’s often the spur for responding.
I repeat though, I’m only talking about things people *could* do, not should.
I should perhaps add that it’s not a matter of being stronger than your attacker, it’s just a case of being more of a risk to him than alternative potential victims (which is an issue in itself of course). When push came to shove the man may well be capable of ‘winning’, but it’s a matter of making that victory too costly in terms of harm to the attacker.
I should clarify that when you’re being raped, you should do whatever you need to do to make it out alive. If you feel that fighting back is the thing to do, fight like hell. If you don’t feel safe enough or able to fight, then do what you can to survive. Everyone will approach it differently and there’s no “right” way to survive. Maybe I just had an issue with your wording.
Speaking of the use of force. Hope people don;t mind if I plug my mate’s endeavour here. It’s a worthy cause and she’s planning a repeat visit soon, so if anyone wants to contribute I can give the relevant details.
Oh, and this girl once knocked one of my teeth out despite me being a foot or so taller!
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=332048233656943&set=a.148103512051417.1073741827.100005553070355&type=1&theater
@Alan
Thanks for restating that. Sorry we kind of ninja’d each other.
Hi again because reasons
Absolutely. There is no one “acceptable” response. I get a sense of satisfaction when one of our students batters a potential attacker but I don’t blame women who excercise other options or none at all.
“Are they still angry that their parents forced them to start using the toilet instead of shitting their pants?”
It’s worse than that. Not only did their parents force them to use the toilet, they also forced them to wipe their ass afterwards! Oh, the humanity! Truly, children are being poisoned with misandry from a very early age.
It’s kind of off topic, but this is an awesome story. http://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbaker/college-professor-bans-student-from-class-for-his-views-on-r#.ohMmmB5Qr
Of course there are tons of male tears and freeze peach whines in the comment section.
Not that driving someone by accidient isnt the same as raping someone…
Of ourse we should teach men not to rape. Hoy crap.
… And completely fucking ruined by the next one along (TW: Rape, paedophilia, suicide, victim-blaming, the rapist getting off scott-free because the judge thought he suffered more than the victim).
Okay, I suppose that last one wasn’t a generic TW so much as me being pissed off at the judge, but seriously, fuck that judge.
From the article:
Yes, if you’re such a persistent, aggressive asshole that literally everyone in your class wishes you were gone, you might have to sit out of a group discussion, at no impact on your grades or the rest of your educational experience.
… Aaand I just noticed the one I linked to was from 2013. My bad. =P (Why would something from ’13 be the “Up next” link?)
I basically got paid by my parents’ insurance company to learn how not to run people over so……….
My, how terrible that must have been. /flataffect
He talks endlessly about rape but thinks being asked to shut up is “terrifying”. Get a grip, man. Bets on whether he thinks women online need to “grow a thicker skin”?
@M. – That story was horrible, no matter when it happened. The judge did get censured and suspended, though, and the rapist was re-sentenced (he’s serving ten years as we speak).
So… not a happy ending, but a slightly less infuriating one. :/
Sorry that I haven’t had a chance to read prior comments before making my own.
Fuck these jerks and their awful analogy.
My father hit a pedestrian. It was a college student who literally sprinted into the road against a light. My father stopped immediately and helped make sure the guy was okay. Then he broke down and cried. In the middle of a crowd. He was fucking devastated to have potentially hurt someone. The kid had only a broken wrist and bruises/scrapes. The police even ticketed him for crossing illegally. That wreck and others like it were part of the reason the city redesigned that corner. It was a busy road separating a major university from bars/restaurants.
Hitting pedestrians is nothing like rape and fuck this analogy.
Poor sweetie. He has to be sooo careful, when will anyone learn to take his feelings into account? If only all of those touchy assault survivors and self-righteous people with empathy could put it aside evidence and lived experience and just see beautiful, rational logic. [/sarcasm]
Seems like it may interest you all:
Flickering the Gaslight: Tactics of Organized Online Harassment http://zite.to/1DCYSIx
I think we can paraphrase the famous Atwood quote to something like “men are afraid women will ask them to not be an insensitive asshole while discussing rape. Women are afraid men will rape them.”
Okay. It lacks the same punch as the real quote. But it’s definitely a mentality also common with male entitlement.
“Don’t teach people that burglary is wrong, teach them not to leave nice stuff in their houses while they’re out instead! Because men’s rights!”
Is… this an US thing again? Because when I got my license, we were indeed taught the rules we were required to know in order to avoid picking up pedestrians with our car’s hood.
Great article, proxieme. (by the way, if my name or post looks funky it’s because I’m logged in from a different computer)
@Kakanian:
It… kind of actually is. The US has a very unhealthy attitude towards criminals, as if every crime were committed only by irredeemable bastards that are driven solely by the desire to do evil. Therefore, the only thing that can be done is throw them in the slammer forever. That’s also why they believe good guys need guns, and why gun restrictions will do nothing to affect violent crime.
Part of the reason these people scoff at “teach men not to rape” campaigns is that, in their mind, the men who rape have chosen to do so and will never be convinced to do otherwise, while the men who don’t rape already know not to do it and therefore never will.
Essentially, they believe that there are good people and evil people. The good people will do good even without laws, and evil people will do bad even despite laws, and never shall the twain intersect.