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Win A Date With a Red Pill Douchebag (Plus bonus Taylor Swift/Ninch Inch Nails mashup video)

I found this video on the alternately entertaining and infuriating Blue Pill subreddit, devoted to mocking Red Pill horribleness. In it, a perfectly nice young woman relates a comically terrible date with a dude who’s obviously been reading too many Red Pill/PUA websites.

Ironically, she went out with him because he sent her a note about Taylor Swift. I’m sure he thought it was a super-clever neg. Unaware that she was dealing with a massive shithead, she thought that he, like her, actually liked Taylor Swift. I guess that’s what she gets for not assuming that all guys are shitheads?

If you’re not into watching videos, a Blue Piller gives a detailed rundown of the woman’s story here.

The unfurtunate woman should probably send her douchebag date a link to the video below; I suspect he’d be horrified that some mean person had sullied his precious Nine Inch Nails (because you just know he’s a fan) by mashing up one of their songs with the terrible Taylor.

Oh, and while I’m at it, here’s an amazingly catchy NIN/Carly Rae Jepsen mashup, which I have to say is a massive improvement on the highly overrated NIN original. (Sorry, Dean Esmay, but it had to be said.) I’ve literally listened to it four times while writing/formatting this post.

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Orion
5 years ago

zyvlyn,

While a lot of it could be standard-issue douchery, several of his tactics involving abrupt, confusing shifts in behavior feel very PUA. I mean, I know that non-PUA abusers also use unpredictable behavior to disorient, but they usually focus on changing *mood* unpredictably more than on doing things that are literally confusing like saying they’re leaving and then waiting for someone. Pretending to like Taylor Swift is also a weird bit of random dishonesty I wouldn’t expect from a manly man alpha male unless he read PUA, since otherwise I would think he’d just hate on T-swift openly.

daeros
5 years ago

@ PussyPowerTantrum I cannot figure out why it is but Youtube has a Gross imbalance of male users and most of them are MRA types. I don’t know what else to tell you. If youtube had more women on it I doubt this would happen.

Ellesar
5 years ago

daeros – I read recently that internet comments are 80% male dominated, apart from very specific sites. Certainly when I enter the fray that is youtube comments I often feel plunged back to teenage years, when the attitude of most men and boys towards me was disrespectful and often nasty.

I think that it puts women off. I certainly steer clear for a few days here and there, and I am a very confident and loud person. But whatever you are like constantly reading abusive comments aimed at you simply for stating an opinion or disagreeing with someone is unpleasant. I assume that a lot of it is done to stifle debate, and also to wield power. Some of the trolling is SO unpleasant I have a difficulty seeing a person behind those words.

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

It’s amazing how a video about a woman who outright refused to reward asshole-ish behavior can still be held up as an example of how women are shallow and prefer assholes and of how women are being awful because they want basic politeness and common courtesy and want their date to actually interact with them instead of staying on his phone the whole time and bragging about himself.

Also, don’t PUAs complain pretty regularly about how bitches always be texting?

daeros
5 years ago

@ellesar unlike a lot of the other youtube commentors I WANT women’s feedback and if they don’t like me I WANT to moderate and work on my behavior. It’s unfortuante that my tumblr account has kind of put off a lot of people because I overpost because I’d like to actually engage them.

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

zyvlyn,
What part of his treatment of this woman did not comply with redpill/MRA beliefs?

isidore13
isidore13
5 years ago

@alaisvex, you forget, men are texting because they have something important to say, women only text to shit test men.

NicolaLuna
NicolaLuna
5 years ago

I love both versions of Hurt. They are kinda bittersweet for me as I used to listen to them after self harming. Hearing them now reminds me of how far I’ve come and how I beat self harm.

Wetherby
Wetherby
5 years ago

Wetherby, I always watched how a date treated the wait staff/box office staff/ticket taker, etc. Chances are good that a truly nice person will treat everyone well, even those he’s /she’s not trying to impress.

I’ve always found it baffling that this seems to be unusual. In the mid-90s, when an IRA bomb was discovered in a phone box near the café where I was having lunch with my then girlfriend, the place was immediately evacuated the police. So we went to see a movie a couple of blocks away and then went back to the café to settle our bill – only to find that we were the only people who’d done this.

And because of this, they gave us a free cream tea with cake as a thank-you, so there was absolutely no downside – after all, we only paid the money that we were fully expecting to have to pay anyway.

takshak
takshak
5 years ago

Trent Reznor suffers from depression and anxiety disorders. While a fair bit of NIN is angsty, I don’t get that from Hurt, and I don’t think you can “read” any song from The Downward Spiral on its own, the album was designed as a piece.

Also, your favourite artist sucks, 😉

daeros
5 years ago

@Cerberus to be entirely candid with you it’s like you said, I don’t think I’ve ever been “punished” by women for being emotionally sensitive, crying or Doing anything that would “feminizie” me to the “homosocial culture.:

the bigger fear I have of being feminine has less to do with fear of female rejection and more to do with Fear of male violence for it.

and that doesn’t stop me. I’m not going to give up my close relationships with women because some asshole might try beating me up for it.

daeros
5 years ago

@cerberus evidneced too by the fact that the only people who ever seem to leave derisivie comments or imply I’m gay for being feminine are…men.

Tracy
Tracy
5 years ago

Huge NIN fan here 🙂 Well, huger fan in my (w)angsty teen years, but they still put on an awesome show (and IME have the most polite mosh pits!)

That date was shitty, but I also winced when she said women have to stop supporting that behavior, as if to blame other women for this guy’s behavior. That dude is a douchebag, but it’s not a woman’s fault.

I didn’t hear that at all – I heard ‘you don’t have to put up with this’ and ‘don’t reward shitty behaviour’ which, in my teens and 20’s, was something I desperately needed to hear. My sister and I tell her step-daughter this all the time, and she’s finally dating a nice guy – an actual nice guy. I get where it could come off that way – her assuming he acts like this on dates because it’s paid off for him in the past, which isn’t necessarily true – but I still didn’t find that blamey on women.

I winced at the ‘like a queen’ thing, but I hate that expression. I know what she’s getting at, but ugh. I don’t want to be treated like a queen, just like a person with agency.

Ellesar
5 years ago

daeros – obviously you are aware that you are a minority?! I am glad to hear that women do not shame you. I certainly would never expect any feminist woman to shame a ‘feminine’ man. I have always held the view that the ONLY way to change gender roles and expectations is to accommodate ALL aspects of human expression – ‘feminininity’ in men, ‘masculinity’ in women, androgyny, gender fluidity etc.

Nequam
Nequam
5 years ago

@takshak: FWIW, I do like NIN enough to have a couple of the albums. “Hurt” just didn’t impress me the way the tracks off Pretty Hate Machine or Broken did. At any rate, Reznor noted that Cash pretty much took the song over from him…

zyvlyn
zyvlyn
5 years ago

@Orion and Lea

I’m certainly not suggesting he couldn’t be an MRA. His behavior is compatable with the disregard for women typically seen in MRAs, and he does some things which are suspiciously similar to PUA techniques, even if they could simply just be a result of self-absorbtion and douchiness.

I was just confused because I was expecting something more overt than that based on the description. In the end, it’s not a terribly important distinction to make. Whether or not he subscribes to the beliefs of the MRM, he still sounds pretty awful.

daeros
5 years ago

@ellesar I consider it progress when they think i’m “Whipped” I’ve done well. but anyways Yes I’m sadly aware of the fact that i’m a minority.

Ellesar
5 years ago

daeros – I hope you have good people around you who are less ‘traditional’ in their views.
I have the opposite – told that I scare men off, and I always think ‘ffs, just treat me like a person and I am NOT scary at all!’

daeros
5 years ago

@ellesar the best women always do, too many men for instance are afraid of women being financially independent. You can’t control the independent ones! oh no!

Lisa
Lisa
5 years ago

Cerberus: You are 100% right about that. I am transgendered and hence spent a lot of years pretending to be a male and fitting in. So I became very aware of what male group dynamics were (though I didn’t follow many of them, lol).

Far too many males will adjust their actions to fit in with male group norms. If that group is toxic towards females then that is what they will do. If that group is a bunch of bullying thugs, then that is what they will also do.

Common complaint amongst many females is their partner’s behaviour, who when they are alone together is kind, loving, supportive, etc, then with his ‘mates’ acts like a complete misogynist pig. I’ve seen that happen far, far too often.

The contradictory thing is that many males, caught in these kind of groups, will shout loudly about their ‘manly independence of mind’, while they are really just acting like total sheep.

People don’t realise how bad it can get and how susceptible many males are to this. I was on a very dangerous 4WD trip some years ago and the group split into all of them and me. Their dynamics were of acting like 14 year old kids with no thought to the situation and the extreme risks we were facing. The de-facto group leader was a neurotic mess, who panicked at one point and because of that they all panicked and then started doing suicidally dangerous and stupid behaviour. It was a miracle no one was killed.

And these were all 50+ males, successful, experienced and intelligent. It was unreal. And nothing I could do could shake them out of that. The need to fit in with the group norm was so strong to them that to achieve that they would do extremely risky, seriously life threatening actions. In simple terms they put their lives on the line.

I wasn’t going to and left them and here is the scary thing, they were furious at me and never, ever invited me on a trip with them again (not a loss to me).

So acting in toxic to females ways (like PUA) to fit in with a group should be of no surprise to anyone. And the groups will self reinforce and pay out/threaten/exclude others that deviate from the norm.

I sometimes get asked by genetic females about a guy they are interested in (leaning on my past male experience). The advice I always give is: look at their group of friends. If they are nice people then the individual guy could be a goer. But, if their friends are toxic, then even if the individual person is nice, then avoid them like the plague, because that group will influence them far more than you can imagine (plus look at where they are in the pecking order, see who is the group leader, and what are they like).

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

PUA tactics are not about the women they are supposedly trying to sleep with. It’s about the men they are trying to win homosocial approval from. It’s about a culture of guys terrified they don’t meet the standards of toxic masculinity because they are nerdy or feel they haven’t had sex enough or once had a passing thought that wasn’t about sports and guns or whatever fear their mind has latched onto who desperately feel they need to do something to fix that and prove to other toxic masculinity worshipping douchebags that they too are manly, well sexed, not gay, not an honorary woman and other categories that are strongly punished in this toxic culture.

Yup. The rewards for shitheads like the one she talks about don’t come from women, but from other men. It really is a game to them, one that’s played against other dudes. The one who treats a woman the worst and still “gets” sex out of her (by whatever skeevy means) wins.

Which is why I found that whole “let’s go drink champagne on my roof” bit scary as hell. Dude, you only just met her, and already you’re trying to set her drunk? FUCK. OFF.

daeros
5 years ago

@Bina the worst part about the PUA material is it’s targeted at men but it thinks men are the type of creatures who don’t want a long term relationship with a woman. They just want to seduce them as quickly as possible.

daeros
5 years ago

@Bina Have you ever read any of it? It’s frightening. I mean yeah Sex is appealing I’d kind of like to have some at some point I’m not asexual but I mean I’m terrible at casual dating. because I can’t keep it casual to save my life. Ya’ll are just too addictive. Anyways I mean I was in a 3 year relationship when I was 13 over the interwebs and It !@#$Ed with me in later life because I just thought it was normal and I’ve frightened some women off because of how clearly things are never just hooking up with me.

I’m the type though that is usually more likely to scare them off in the first five minutes than in the following three years if I don’t mess up then.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
5 years ago

I still like “Head Like A Hole” a lot, but I do admittedly have more fun listening to that remix…

ObjectiveReality
5 years ago

Of course, it’s possible that rather than having had positive feedback for this stuff, this guy’s not been on many dates and effectively hasn’t had any feedback from women. The alarming thing about that idea is that he’s presumably got his ideas from PUA sites or something, and the feedback he’ll get from there is that he played the game almost right and needs to shell out for more courses. And naturally there are the MRA goons (in the comments of this very video, who’d have thunk?) who’ll give him props for disrespecting women on principle.

Tl;dr – I’m wondering if bad advice from other dudes is more of a risk for this stuff than positive feedback in terms of dating success. If so, I’m worried about the long-term consequences in terms of angry misled dudes mistreating women.

takshak
takshak
5 years ago

@ Nequam: “Hurt” isn’t one of my favourite tracks on the album, but it does work better as part of the whole, which is actually quite interesting from an engineering and sound design PoV. I’m reminded of one of Nash the Slash’s “tricks” (RIP, Jeff) with soundtracks, which is to repeat musical themes.

fmarouet2012
5 years ago

“That date was shitty, but I also winced when she said women have to stop supporting that behavior, as if to blame other women for this guy’s behavior. That dude is a douchebag, but it’s not a woman’s fault.”

The reason it works when it does is because they ask every woman they’re even mildly attracted to. It’s a numbers game. Eventually, they find someone who for whatever reason decides to get involved with this person (e.g., she really likes tall guys, she thinks he’s trying to get into her pants and will stop if they have sex, she’s out to have no strings attached sex, whatever). The women don’t normally realize that the men actually believe that women *respond* to abuse. Also, for the men, it’s a combination of confirmation bias and praise from other men that motivates. The women are irrelevant. Usually, before they try this system they haven’t tried anything at all, that is, they’re too scared to even ask a woman out. I have to say it also made me cringe that she talked about the women as though it were their fault. I think we need to stop asking this question. Why do women etc.? It’s like asking why someone goes back to an abusive relationship or why they live with their pimp. We need to put the focus on the men. PUA is a long con some women fall for, the end. It’s unreasonable to expect women to always know that men are spending weeks or months and thousands of dollars learning to be mean in exactly this deceptive way and that they won’t actually stop being mean ever. I mean the whole thing is kind of preposterous.

Lisa
Lisa
5 years ago

ObjectiveReality “’I’m wondering if bad advice from other dudes is more of a risk for this stuff than positive feedback in terms of dating success”.

Yep you got it. From the male group point of view (group think) it is better for the male to follow the group rules of behaviour towards females and fail, than to break them and succeed.

If they break those rules then the group will not be happy with them (“yeh sure you got sex, but you acted like a real pussy towards her, pussywhipped, pussywhipped” sort of thing). If they follow them (and fail) then the group will pat them on the back and then everyone joint whinges about what b**tches women are.

‘Pecking order’ competition and jealousy are significant factors in this behaviour too.

If the group opinion leader is a real misogynist, then it can get very ugly. You can even get a self reinforcing mindset, treat female badly …dating fail…the answer: “You didn’t treat her badly enough”…and so on. Congitive dissonance at large, doubling up on failure

And males lie about sex all the time. In every way. About how often, who with, how they got it, what they did and so on. You get a bunch of young guys together and the tales get larger and larger, especially as the alcohol gets consumed. Any relationship to reality disappears real soon.

Add alcohol (and/or some drugs) to the mix then you can see groups of guys (even some individual ones) out and about that everyone wants to stay well clear off. They can be on a very light trigger for violence (towards both females and other non group males, especially if they don’t appear ‘manly’) and rape. The amount of fights I have seen started just because one male wanted to impress his other male ‘mates’.

GLBTI people know all about those ‘homosocial’ groups and how they can behave. For some of them beating up a ‘poof’ is a right of passage into ‘maleness’ and group acceptence. Transgender ‘panic’ has killed a lot of Tgirls. Lesbians have been raped to ‘make them into real women’….and so on. Fortunately that is at the rarer and extreme end of the behaviour spectrum, but is still far too common.

A heck of a lot of males (but fortunately not all by any means) are funny in groups. For some of them there is a real desire to lose their personal identity within them, to take on this group identity and opinions, plus (though they hate to admit it) synchophancy can be a factor, especially if there is a strong leader of the group. If the group ‘norms’ are positive or neutral, then there is no real harm. But if the group is negative then it can get very ugly indeed.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

So many guys, when they want to know what women want, ask other MEN — who, in many cases know either less or whose advice is totally toxic. (I catch a whiff of toxic advice from the guy in the OP — He’s doing things he’s been TOLD will make women want to sleep with him, and he’s shocked when she runs away as fast as possible.

The male group peer pressure is very effective — for all the pose of manly independence, many men are terrified of what other guys will say if they show any weakness or “effeminacy”. This self-reinforcing crap is very destructive. The manosphere pushes the idea that any kindness shown to a woman in or out of bed is “beta” — that women should be trained to expect nothing and get nothing from a relationship with a man. It really is puzzling that any man buys this, but obviously there are plenty that do.

BritterSweet
5 years ago

From the title I thought this would be a post about some Red Pill Douchebag announcing some sort of contest where the “winner” gets a date with him. HAHA!!

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

It’s also worth adding that PUA types actively discourage men from asking women for advice on romance and seduction. They say, “You don’t ask a fish about what makes good bait.” In their minds, women are actively trying to avoid being lured into a relationship or into sex, so you have to trick them into it. That also explains why they can’t tell the difference between getting laid in spite of their personalities rather than because of them. They don’t realize that women have sex with them just because those women happen to find them physically attractive enough to ignore their asshole behavior for the duration of a fling.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

From the title I thought this would be a post about some Red Pill Douchebag announcing some sort of contest where the “winner” gets a date with him. HAHA!!

Second prize: two dates with him.

Asking a woman about what makes a man attractive is beta (because you’re putting a woman in a position of authority over you). Alphas are supposed to tell a woman what she wants, the same way they take charge and order off the menu for her at a restaurant. Who cares if it’s even in the same galaxy as what she actually wants?

There is also the thing that, if you ask a dozen different women what they’re looking for, you’ll get a dozen very different answers, some of which will be “not men”. That puts the lie to the fantasy that there’s a single set of seduction tricks that will have all women everywhere eating out of your hand.

Cerberus
Cerberus
5 years ago

Lisa-

Yep you got it. From the male group point of view (group think) it is better for the male to follow the group rules of behaviour towards females and fail, than to break them and succeed.

If they break those rules then the group will not be happy with them (“yeh sure you got sex, but you acted like a real pussy towards her, pussywhipped, pussywhipped” sort of thing). If they follow them (and fail) then the group will pat them on the back and then everyone joint whinges about what b**tches women are.

‘Pecking order’ competition and jealousy are significant factors in this behaviour too.

If the group opinion leader is a real misogynist, then it can get very ugly. You can even get a self reinforcing mindset, treat female badly …dating fail…the answer: “You didn’t treat her badly enough”…and so on. Congitive dissonance at large, doubling up on failure

And males lie about sex all the time. In every way. About how often, who with, how they got it, what they did and so on. You get a bunch of young guys together and the tales get larger and larger, especially as the alcohol gets consumed. Any relationship to reality disappears real soon.

Yup. I remember this well back when I thought I was a boy and the “other guys” would try to teach me how to be “less of a f*g”. The spinning tall tales of conquest that were supposed to matter (I’m so thankful I was asexual, as I feel it was the best defense ever against this type of toxic culture”) all surrounding just horrible mistreatment of women (the more this fantasy woman was abused and looked down upon for having the foolish notion of agreeing to a fictional sex act with the douchebag very rapidly became the entire point for them. And lots of assholes who seemed to never be sleeping with anyone but always talking about porn and violent sexual stories about women ranting at anyone in a relationship for being pussywhipped.

And yeah, that phenomenon of winning “the wrong way” really seemed to be powerful for those caught up in the fantasy. I remember my ex’s ex who was having a lot of sex because he was good about consent and put his partners’ pleasure first who nonetheless worried the magical sex fairy was going to dry up and his masculinity was constantly under question because he wasn’t getting women by being “manly” and instead by actually treating women like people.

Toxic masculinity is not just a turn of phrase. This shit is poisonous to healthy behavior among men and the mythologies spread and the violence and hate thrown at men who dare deviate from this hateful path is intense. And it’s hard to fully communicate just how vile it was to see from the inside as someone as emotionally removed from it (due to how I was born) as physically possible.

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

Or any variation on “Don’t worry, I won’t hurt you/I’m not gonna rape you, geez, relax.” It all boils down to “Let me argue and shame you out of your comfort zone so I can get my dick wet, because that’s way more important”. Why would you trust someone who views your well-being as an obstacle to his pleasure?

It’s that “Unsolicited promise” from Gavin de Becker’s The Gift of Fear. If someone is promising you things that you didn’t ask them to—i.e. “I promise I’ll leave you alone after this”, “I promise I won’t hurt you”, etc.—it’s a manipulation tactic. Much of the time, it does mean that the person intends to keep pushing your boundaries, and probably will break those unsolicited promises.

It’s also worth adding that PUA types actively discourage men from asking women for advice on romance and seduction. They say, “You don’t ask a fish about what makes good bait.”

Dudes. If your philosophy of dating literally hinges on predation, you’re doing it wrong.

friday jones
friday jones
5 years ago

I thought Johnny Cash was singing in his cover of “Hurt” about the loss of his wife June Carter Cash. It’s a heartbreaking music video, a perfect finale for a Byronic country and western singer.

LBT (with open writeathon!)

RE: friday jones

I LOVE Cash’s ‘Hurt,’ never really cared for the NIN one. Cash just brings this sort of lugubrious dignity to it that I really think only an older singer could pull off. He sounds so TIRED in it.

RE: toxic masculinity

I have such a weird ambivalence about masculinity, because I’ve always felt it was some sort of gated community I could never get access to. Even when I was at my most self-consciously butch, it always felt so fake to me. Sometimes, I wonder why I’d even WANT to be masculine, since so much of it seems so toxic.

The trans shit just makes it more confusing, because femininity for me was always something forced upon me. I guess I just feel like I’m in some no-man’s-land where I’m not capable of being masculine and can’t stand being feminine. (Though I appreciate it in my husband and my siblings; it’s adorable and sassy and all their own!)

I actually have found a book about recovering from sexual abuse as a guy that actually talks a bit about it. It’s honestly the first time I’ve actually felt like I might belong at all!

Lisa
Lisa
5 years ago

I suspect that PUAs lie even more than the average male about how much sex they are getting.

I’ve known guys who were very successful with females at dating (etc) and none of them acted like PUAs at all. And they came in all body types and sizes, from short and dumpy, to classically ‘good looking’, to quite effeminate looking and so on (sorry also to the ‘looking masculine’ crowd).

But they were all interesting people (in different ways), real individuals and they were all interested in their female partner and showed it. Most had a very good sense of humour, all were intelligent and could hold a good conversation. And they were fun to be with, you were never bored with them around. Not all were so successful at long term relationships though…..

And just to break the hearts of all of the PUAs (etc) out there even more. I have a part time trans friend who is drop dead gorgeous when in female mode…and when they go out as a female they attract lots of young attractive genetic female attention, they are all over her (I just watched it happen again last night at the pub)….

So boys if you are not getting any female attention..try wearing a dress….lol…

Lisa
Lisa
5 years ago

LBT: ” trans shit” for MTF TGs is not about faking ‘femininity” (whatever that is this week), rather it is dropping the fake ‘masculinity’ you pretended for many years to fit in and finally letting yourself act naturally (however that is for you personally).

Trans people express themselves as females in as many different ways as genetic females do. Media attention gets focussed on those beautiful or ‘outrageous’ ones, but the majority of us just do our best to fit in as average people.

Many of us became very astute observers of male behaviour when young as a survival mechanism to learn how to ‘act’ in a way to fit in as a male and not get bullied, bashed, excluded, etc. Because it wasn’t natural to us we had to consciously observe very carefully and copy as best we could.

This still happens in many places now. Those fortunate enough to have access to pre puberty treatment (as per the Dutch protocols) don’t have to go through this crap, never have to do this fake masculinity thing and can live naturally in their real gender from a young age. And they are as individual in their behaviour as any young female (or male for FTM ‘transmen’ of course).

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

I remember having a conversation with a friend at university. At one point I brought up my brothers (three, all older), and he said, “Oh, that must be why you’re so naturally masculine.” You could have knocked me over with a feather boa. Upon further discourse, I realized that he – despite being a good five inches taller and noticeably mesomorphic – had grown up feeling like what he called a sissy. Since puberty, he had worked out and monitored his speech and body language so he wouldn’t feel like a failure as a man. I was aghast. The idea of ‘masculinity’ as some badge of membership or achievement was baffling to me.

Now, I was never good at gender-variant behavior, myself. I’ve never even done drag, although my husband assures me that he is just fine with that.

freemage
5 years ago

zyvlyn | March 8, 2015 at 12:49 pm

I didn’t hear anything from his behavior to make me think he was a red piller or an MRA. A PUA? Possibly. A douchebag? Undoubtedly.

As for the youtube comments… well… they’re youtube comments. The youtube comment section is our society’s Mos Isley. A wretched hive of scum and villainy.

zyvlyn, while there’s a fair bit of insistence among the varied groups (MRAs, MGTOWs and PUAs, in particular) that these are separate movements, in the long run, the underlying psychology is very, very similar; that’s why on this site, David refers heavily to the ‘Manosphere’, which includes all these specific flavors of misogynistic behavior.

In this case, specifically:

1: The assumption that all women are secretly alike, and thus you should expect the same reaction from all women to a formulaic behavior.
2: The assumption that women do not deserve to be treated with the same respect and courtesy as a man.
3: The assumption that men intrinsically know what is ‘better’ for women, and know this better than the women themselves do.

And yes, the comments sections are notoriously foul, generally speaking and specifically on YouTube. That doesn’t put them out of bounds for mockery, which is, if you’ll recall, the purpose of this site.

Lolly
Lolly
5 years ago

After watching this I went through a few of Amy Young’s videos. I really liked a lot about them. funnily, the more I watched, the prettier she seemed. I found myself almost mesmerised. (!) But her smarts and common sense are def where it’s at. I reckon she’s a valuable resource for young (or older) women learning about dating and its pluses and pitfalls.

I knew her queen comment would upset some but I think she means that a guy on a date who wants to go further with a woman because he likes her ideally treats her really well – really considerately, really attentively, etc. He would going out of his way to make her feel good. That’s what a good guy does when dating, I think. He looks for ways to make that woman happy. If there’s none of that, and a guy treats a woman like she’s just another person in the room, it’s a sign he’s not that keen (or, alternatively, not that socially aware). Doesn’t mean he’s a shithead to everyone around, of course. He just prioritises his date. In that sense, she’s treated like a queen. In only that sense.

Lisa
Lisa
5 years ago

As for ‘masculinity’ they are all posers. They are not men, they are jokes.

The most ‘masculine’ man I ever met was my grandfather. Fought at the Somme in WW1, worked in the shipyards all his life…and a more gentle, kind, strong, caring, intelligent, talented man you would never find anywhere.

His wife tragically died young and he brought up 3 children by himself, he tought me chess …and and how to knit and sow. He cooked, cared, filled the house with books. Took me to the zoo, explained things, gave me a first english edition of Einsiein’s own book on relativity (much better than most textbooks). An intellectual and a hard worker.

A kind, gentle man. But was also known to others as a ‘hard man’ that no one would mess with, which in Glasgow in the 1940s/50/60s says a lot.

Supported his children in what they did, worked hard for their education and was proud of them and supported them. He would walk to work, then walk back to cook for his children at lunchtime, then walk back to work, then walk home again and cook dinner.

And a total gentleman toward women. Yes a person with some of the prejudices of the time (though not in any way education for women) but a good gentle man wth his heart always in the right place.

And he was a real man, compared to which all these MRA/PUAs are very, very, pale imitations. He would have despised them…and decked them in a moment if he caught any of then treating any of his daughters (or their friends) badly. Even though he despised violence, he had seen far too much death, there were expections.

Those, and many other role models, are positive masculinity. It is sad that so many young males are not getting good ones.. Sadly the same appies to some females, though, unlike so many males, it is getting better for them. I see a bad trend in that too many males are getting bad models to follow. Where more and more females are getting good ones.

Though there is hope everywhere , India where the young girl was gang raped and killed and the massive demonstratons about it. Then, it sounds cruel, a couple of guys were killed by a mob because they raped a woman. But it shows that the ‘rape’ culture is not universal in any society or amongst males (many of which would lay down their lives to prevent it even in the most chauvinistic cultures).

Lot of good guys out there. Lot of guys pretending to be arseholes’, but in ther hearts are good poeple (dodgy though, only recommended for really strong females, otherwise, my hint, avoid..group think and all that as I explained) .

And I agree with the video, reward the good guys, punish the bad ones The best way to kill off the PUAs, MRAs and all the rest is to totally laugh at them at their stupidity, then ignore them and then walk away.

I’d also recommend these guys take T blockers, which will kill their sex drives so they have no desires for females at all. So they can spend all their time with their ‘homosocial male’ friends and have no dreaded, for them, desires for those all so hated females.

Daeran Zemaitis
Daeran Zemaitis
5 years ago

“A heck of a lot of males (but fortunately not all by any means) are funny in groups. For some of them there is a real desire to lose their personal identity within them, to take on this group identity and opinions, plus (though they hate to admit it) synchophancy can be a factor, especially if there is a strong leader of the group. If the group ‘norms’ are positive or neutral, then there is no real harm. But if the group is negative then it can get very ugly indeed.”

This actually explains a lot of how chan culture (one of the most male dominated internet cultures), and thus GamerGate works. The almost cult-like hive mind that you see on the chans regarding virtually EVERY issue is largely a product of that need to fit in, to be a part of “anon”, to not be called a random slur Cartman-style. Conform or be abused, conform or be ridiculed as a “pussy” or “beta” wtc. Similarly, the same dynamics are at work in GG where anyone who tries to bring up ethical concerns or points out the transphobia, sexism, casual racism etc are shouted down insulted, or just ignored, because they’ve bound up their personal idenities in the GG hate train. And the irony is that a lot of GGers would be considered “failed males” by “traditional” toxic masculinity, but instead of rejecting those assumptions and structures, they just replicate them.

Skye
Skye
5 years ago

Lisa, I may be misreading your last post and if so, I’m sorry, but a few things about it are kind of creeping me out.

Rape is terrible and should be eradicated, but are you saying a lynch mob killing accused (or even convicted) rapists is a good thing? That those people are “good guys”? Also killing a rapist is not necessarily the same thing as “laying down your life to prevent” someone from being raped. Lynch mobs are ugly things and in my country (US) generally enforced horrible social norms like racism rather than heroically corrected injustices.

I don’t think MRAs, PUAs other misogynists are going to magically not hate women if they have no sex drive.

Lisa
Lisa
5 years ago

Skye, not meant that way at all and I agree totally about lynch mobs. But it shows that there were enough people there who were so strongly emotional against rape that they were prepared to do a terrible thing.

As horrible as it was, it does show that drive exists amongst many people there. Hopefully over time that will be channeled into better and productive actions and outcomes.

I was being a bit lighthearted about T blockers and I agree that it wouldn’t cure their misogyny, but at least it might stop them sexually harrasing the women they hate so much.

nightmarelyre
5 years ago

I got to wonder, when did NIN become “mannly music for mannly men” anyways? Last time I checked all the misogyny in their lyrics were ironic and part of making whatever character they were singing about seem like a disturbing creepy bastard, at least on the Downward Spiral album (which is the one I am the most familiar with) and according to what I have seen Trent Reznor say in interviews.

Oh right, these people don’t understand irony, satire, sarcasm or that when something sounds like a distorted nightmare it’s probably not meant to glorify the actions in the song, so I guess that could be it too =P

As someone who likes Taylor Swift, Carley Rae Jepson and NIN I really dig those mashups, thanks for sharing them

Skye
Skye
5 years ago

Lisa, thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it. I totally agree with your hope that better and productive actions and outcomes will come from people who are driven to act against rape.

tooimpurenangel
5 years ago
Reply to  Skye

I always took “Big Man with a Gun” to be a critique of masculinity but I may be overly optimistic.

W
W
5 years ago

can I just say one thing about the video? In particular the line “…treated like a queen…”

Am I alone in feeling this perpetuates some of the same tired old bullshit as well? How about “treated like a fellow human, worthy of respect and dignity”? (or something to that effect)

as a guy I don’t expect to be treated “like a king”, for example, and a woman who demands to be treated like a queen doesn’t interest me much either

Earthy
Earthy
4 years ago

Geez, lots of hate for NIN in such a short post! So, hilariously, I found this page looking up Nine Inch Nails discussion. I was just having a conversation yesterday in which I proposed “Big Man with a Big Gun” is obviously about toxic masculinity. Considering Trent Reznor’s progressive antics (even advertising for PETA, ugh), it’s hard to take that song at face value, especially when he exchanges the gun/phallus so easily via shooting/coming. Point being, I don’t find NIN some archetype of MRAs despite the fact Trent Reznor was certainly an Angry White Male.