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antifeminism female beep boop gross incompetence misogyny MRA one hundred upvotes reddit straw feminists the poster revolution has begun

The Men’s Rights infographic no feminist can rebut! (Because it’s impossible to read.)

Click on pic for a larger, if still hard to read, version.
Click on pic for a larger, if still  blurry, version.

Is this the holy grail of MRA infographics?

Designed — if that’s the word for it — by an MRA and #GamerGater who calls himself BJSparky, this lovely “poster” offers up a 2000-word wall of text in such tiny type it’s impossible to read.

Well, not completely impossible. I snagged the largest version of the poster I was able to successfully download on BJ’s Deviant Art page and enlarged it until the text was a more reasonable size for reading — albeit a bit blurry. (There may be a larger version, but I got a broken image when I clicked on his download button.)

A quick scan reveals that this particular wall of text seems to have been built mostly with straw: it’s a list of allegedly feminist beliefs that no feminists actually believe. (Admittedly, I didn’t read every example; for all I know, the entire right side of the poster might be made up of passages copied from Supernatural fanfic or James Joyce’s Ulysses.)

Here are some of BJ’s straw feminist nuggets:

sf1

sf2

sf3

sf4

sf5

As you can see, BJ is as elegant a writer as he is a designer.

I would kind of love to see these straw feminist nuggets blown up and used as signs at some straw feminist demonstration.

Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, the poster has gotten a more enthusiastic reception than I have given it here, garnering more than 100 upvotes and inspiring this amazing comment:

InWadeTooDeep 14 points 23 hours ago*   This is quite possibly the most well made poster I have ever seen; Maybe I just have low or unusual standards.  I wonder how /r/Feminism would react to this, lets find out. Banned in less than 24 minutes with no discussion and the only comment is concern-trolling.Sorry, bro, but I think there is a definite possibility that you have low and/or unusual standards.

H/T — the awesome chewinchawingum on r/againstmensrights

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Tessa
5 years ago

We can dish out teasing, snarky, abusive, and downright cruel behavior, and will justify it, but when someone responds similarly or retaliates in a way we don’t approve, we will deem it as inexcusable and claim to be oppressed or victim of discriminination.

This translates to feminist makes snarky comment, and is threatened with death or rape… It reminds me of a creepy gamergate thingie where Brianna Wu posted a meme mocking gamergaters, so the gamergaters used the image to make some that called for rape and her suicide and other such “lovely things.” Of course, they saw the 2 as equal and Wu should have expected that if she was going to talk shit and hurt their manfeels.

Ha! It was on WHTM!
https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/10/11/yet-another-woman-in-gaming-has-been-driven-from-her-home-by-death-threats/#more-13718

ssaly88
5 years ago

(Column 5, item 11) If a man commits statutory rape on a girl, she will get sympathy and support, but a woman commits statutory rape on a boy, he will be admired

…By feminists? Oh yeah, there are a lot of high-fives at NOW when that happens. It’s the feminists who celebrate that.

I’m reminded of when I used to read comments below news articles (don’t do THAT anymore, that’s for sure!) and whenever there would be an article about a male teacher sexually abusing a female student, someone would always reprimand people who showed disgust by saying, “If the teacher were a woman, you would call her empowered and the kid lucky!”

Then, of course, that article covering the female teacher abusing one of her male students came around, and WHO was saying the kid was lucky? The same asshole who said everyone else would say that!

Tessa
5 years ago

Oh and David… The right side was so not Supernatural fanfiction! Not Supernatural fanfiction at all! *sobs*

howlcat
5 years ago

You’re demanding bias, bigotry, discrimination, double standards, fascism, hypocrisy, indoctrination, and special treatment

Seems to be listed alphabetically. I wonder if that was intentional?

Magic
Magic
5 years ago

Hi there. Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I saw a link to this on the Men’s Rights subreddit, and knew it would be amazing since Deviantart users are notorious for their uninformed opinions. I took a look at through the favorites of the people that liked this “masterpiece”, and immediately saw a poster ranting about how Obama had chosen tyranny over freedom. I ended up at a rant against Western women that said, “I’m not a misogynist…Western women are lazy, spoiled bitches.” Clearly, these people know what they’re talking about.

I hope MRAs make more posters like this, since I always need a good laugh.

ej
ej
5 years ago

@kirbywarp

I almost put in a comment about PUAs, but I just couldn’t get past that use of the word “empowering.” You’re right though. The popularized methods some men use are in fact sexist and oppressive and manipulative and horrible and about a thousand other adjectives, but I don’t have my thesaurus handy. Those methods are what we object to (and rightfully so).

I haven’t read “The Rules” (nor do I plan to), but I reject the idea that there is some magical formula that will get you the perfect relationship. “Follow these rules and you’ll live happily ever after.” BULLSHIT. Relationships are work. If you want one, you have to be willing to work at it. It’s not just going to magically happen because you followed some guidelines you saw on the internet. I despise all the articles out there that tell you the “three things people in happy marriages do” or “seven ways to strengthen your relationship.” NO. People and relationships are unique. There is no one-size-fits-all here.

These things also fall scarily close to things like PUA techniques to get women to sleep with them. “Follow these steps and you’ll get laid.” EW EW EW EW.

Andrew Johnston
5 years ago

There is a ton of repetition in this thing. C5-R11 (The “feminists applaud women who commit stat rape”) is pretty similar to C3-R7:

We want women who are convicted of statutory rape to receive a light charge or sentence and carry on afterwards as if nothing happened, whereas men must register as a sex offender, receive a much harsher sentence, and have their lives and reputation forever

But that’s entirely redundant given C1-R11 (The “pussy pass” one), which is then repeated in C2-R14:

We believe that if a woman is guilty of any crime, regardless of how serious it may be, she should be given the lightest possible punishment at all, especially if she’s pregnant or a dependent mother, whereas men should always be punished to the fullest extent of the law, regardless if they are a parent or dependent caretaker

Note that none of these redundant items are close to each other on the poster. Most people will not read any of these – they’ll take in the sheer number of points (about 100 here) and assume that the person who made it knows what he was doing. The ones who do read aren’t going to go through the whole list, they’ll pick part of one column (probably at the beginning) and ignore the rest. As long as you don’t pack all the repeats right next to each other, no one’s going to notice. The guy who did this was a bit more clever than most of the people who try the “argument by list” thing.

M.
M.
5 years ago

We believe learning how to understand and attract men is empowering and liberating …

So we can add the definition of “Sexual empowerment” to the Möbius strip of things that MRAs don’t understand. The idea is that a woman owns her sexuality for herself, not for men, and that she‘s in charge of it, not men. That’s the opposite of sexual empowerment. That’s sexual objectification.

Andrew Johnston
5 years ago

Hey, there are some contradictions here too. For example, C1-R14:

We believe it’s always the obligation of the man to initiate the interest of a woman and be entirely responsible for any required financials for activities they do together, such as dates

…And C3-R1:

We believe that it is socially unacceptable, inappropriate and creepy for a man to touch or kiss a woman without permission for any reason, but socially acceptable and liberating for a woman to touch or kiss a man, regardless if he approves or not

Well, which is it? Do feminists want women to be timid, passive wallflowers or sexually aggressive lust monsters?

KSRay
KSRay
5 years ago

You’re demanding bias, bigotry, discrimination, double standards, fascism, hypocrisy, indoctrination, and special treatment

Seems to be listed alphabetically. I wonder if that was intentional?

That’s just the way they were in the thesaurus.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

Saying that “The Rules” was the female equivalent to PUA “game” is not entirely wrong. To some extent “The Rules” was a form of “game”.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

@KSRay: You pre-ninja’s me.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@Andrew Johnston:

Sadly, since this is supposed to be a list of Feminist hypocrisy, any contradictions you find will be explained as yet another hypocritical thing about feminism. They can justify constructing an obviously straw feminist that makes no sense because they think real feminism is just as confusing.

It’s not like they care about their model matching up with reality.

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
5 years ago

Is this an actual thing? By which I mean is this an actual feminist thing, or is it one of those cases where some municipality is removing urinals from their public restrooms, so these dipshits just blame feminists out of habit?

They’re still bringing this up? Wow. I believe this was one town in Europe where a city official (male) wanted to remove the urinals from the city hall building because the men kept pissing all over the floor. I can’t seem to find the original story now though, my google-fu fails me. I think David might have talked about it before.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
5 years ago

The only actual case of removing urinals that I know of involves some green/low-flush urinals that were installed in some places at non-trivial expense and have now all been ripped out because urine sitting in copper pipes for extended periods of time results in corroded, leaky pipes. And it was cheaper to replace the urinals than to replace all the copper pipe running through the walls.

http://www.cracked.com/article_19998_the-6-most-insane-ways-going-green-can-backfire.html

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

This reminds me of one of the first Pride Day parades I marched in, back in the long ago. We saw a group of the ‘Turn or Burn’ counterdemonstrators up ahead, and prepared. As we marched past, we all faced them and chanted, “Our graphic designs are better than your graphic designs!” They were dumbfounded.

The fact that we have to identify which bit of nonsense and vitriol we’re referring to by column and number is evidence that this was not well made.

Miss Diketon
Miss Diketon
5 years ago

(Column 5, item 2) In media, a cast of all females is acceptable and empowering, but a cast of all males is oppressive and exclusive

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This feminist loves “The Great Escape” and there was nary a female within 50 miles of Stalag Luft III.

Viscaria
Viscaria
5 years ago

Regarding the first bullet point highlighted in the OP: I should hope everyone would know that abuse is, by definition, non-consensual.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Re: That thing about urinals, somewhere…

It actually has nothing to do with feminism! It’s environmentalism, gone somewhat wonky. You see, traditional urinals use one to five gallons per flush, which, if you only donated like a thimble full of urine is kind of wasteful.

So, then they developed no flush urinals, only then the urine started eating the pipes because it was just sitting there in all its uric acid glory because water wasn’t forcing it out, and people were like “GRARGH! WHY IS THERE URINE LEAKING OUT OF MY WALLS”.

So, the choices are either just get rid of the urinals altogether, go back to the five gallon flushers, or replace all your copper pipes with PVC that the urine won’t eat through.

Most people just go with the flushers.

…so, yeah, not really a feminist thing. More a frustrated building manager who wanted to be eco-friendly and then nope thing.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

…ninja’d because I’m slow at work. Jenora Feuer, I salute you.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

But once again this demonstrates the total paranoia of the manosphere. Anything that exists, is by definition ABOUT THEM.
We only know women don’t pee.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

Should be “We all know …” but I’m not readjusting well from blogs where you have six minutes to “revise and extend your remarks.”

yumicpcake
5 years ago

Funny thing about that alimony statement is the fact that my Mother (who just so happens to be female) had to pay her ex husband alimony who was a man! The person who makes more money is the one who ends up paying alimony……it is not a gender biased thing. That whole statement declaring that the man pays even if he makes less money is false. The reason that probably happened is she ended up with custody of kids and had more expenses then that man because of needed larger living space, because of kids, and higher utility bills because of kids and child support is specifically for food and clothes.

ceebarks
ceebarks
5 years ago

It’s been ages since I skimmed “The Rules” at the bookstore but it seemed to me like one of those complicated “tons of rules!” kinds of thing that basically “works” (at least, for a while) because in the course of carrying out the complicated outlined rituals out you wind up doing something that’s actually relatively simple as a by-product.

Like those crazy diet books that I’m convinced “work” for people because they make it impossible to grab fast food or crap from the vending machine or even just junk from the grocery store– if you have to cook something very specific that’s “on the plan” any time you have an urge to nosh, then at least half the time you’re just going to let the noshing urge pass.

Similarly, The Rules (like “game”) could, though their elaborate sets of rules, probably force people to reduce the number and/or severity of instances in which they slobber down potential dates’ necks begging for sex or love or a purpose in life. I’ve seen that kind of thing from men and women alike, and it’s truly cringe-inducing to behold from the outside… and totally revolting if you’re the one being slobbered ON…

though I do understand the urge on the part of the slobberer. lol

A relationship book that just says, “omg, get a grip and stop making an ass of yourself! No one decent really likes that kind of thing!” is never going to make any money, though

kind of like a book that says, “look, let’s be real– your 12PM ice-cream habit is probably not doing your waistline any favors” isn’t a hot seller either.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
5 years ago

ikanreed:

This is the classic conspiracist “text is more credible if saved on .jpg” type thinking. Literally anyone could type out this kind of list, but there’s this attitude that it’s credible if someone took the time to put it on an image.

Now that’s an interesting notion. I used to think this MRA poster boom is just because they want to imitate classic political propaganda posters and modern popular internet memes, without really understanding how it should be done or why it would be worthwhile. The end result is political screeds crammed into a poster with random graphics as background filler.

ceebarks
ceebarks
5 years ago

That whole statement declaring that the man pays even if he makes less money is false. The reason that probably happened is she ended up with custody of kids and had more expenses then that man because of needed larger living space, because of kids, and higher utility bills because of kids and child support is specifically for food and clothes.

details, like scented candles, are misandry

Chie Satonaka
Chie Satonaka
5 years ago

Okay, so I can find a smattering of outrage over the alleged proposal by the Swedish Sormland County Council Left Party that they wanted public toilets in county council offices to be sitting only and gender neutral. The original article is conveniently gone. All that’s left is the outraged “reaction” articles that link back to it. I see The Daily Caller, The Free Republic, and A Voice for Men “reporting” on this news, yet I see zero evidence that it ever actually happened or resulted in any legislation. That was from 2012-2013. And yet MRAs are still whining about it.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/352108

Scarlettathena
5 years ago

This is kind of like a straw version of a gish gallop.

True believers will (maybe) read a couple and nod along saying “word” and to any sane person there is too much to refute and you would waste time even trying because the point is not to have a real discussion.

Scarlettathena
5 years ago

This is kind of like a straw version of a gish gallop. (A strawish gallop?)

True believers will (maybe) read a couple and nod along saying “word” and to any sane person there is too much to refute and you would waste time even trying because the point is not to have a real discussion.

Scarlettathena
5 years ago

sorry for the double post.

(grumbles to computer)

Lordcrowstaff
Lordcrowstaff
5 years ago

The office of Mr. S. Trawman just called, they want to double their donations!

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

We want objectification of women in any way to be seen as oppressive and harmful, regardless of whether it’s respectful, welcome, encouraged, or legal.

Ah, yes, because if something isn’t illegal, that means it should be encouraged and is in no way immoral or frowned upon. The law is the clear arbiter of all right and wrong.

Oh, but it’s misandry to try to pass any kinds of laws that prevent ‘natural male sexuality’ or even mention women in the name anywhere. And some laws, like age of consent laws, are clearly ridiculous and ruin the lives of people who get ‘seduced’ by non-sexually mature teens/tweens. /sarcasm

Also, there are some comments on people’s appearance that may not necessarily be viewed as harassing. Something like “Oh, those are really neat earrings!” or “That shirt brings out your eyes.” These comments are what are referred to as ‘compliments’, actual compliments, and are not objectification, because they come from a place of wanting to make the other person feel happy or flattered about their appearance. It’s about THEM. Objectification comes from a place of making people feel scared or powerless and is all about YOU, and how their body exists only as something meant to please YOU. I refuse to believe that these assholes are unable to comprehend the difference. Though I suppose if you see every other living human being as a faulty NPC to your main character, thinking about the thoughts and feelings of other people may not come easily.

But general rule of thumb with compliments is that you compliment something that the person is in control of, that they chose. So clothing, hairstyle, accessories, etc. People didn’t choose the body parts they possess, so commenting on them is congratulating them on luck at best, and being a creepy objectifying asshole at worst.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

And, honestly, if you’re someone who claims he can’t tell the difference between genuine compliments and harassment, just don’t compliment people. It’s not a mandatory thing. Cripes.

Lolly
Lolly
5 years ago

I do think it’s a good, thorough compliation of all the most strange and incorrect assumptions most anti-feminists have about feminism. Best to get it all out of the way nice and neatly (and certainly very pinkly).

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@Lolly:

True. You could take the exact same poster, replace the title with “We are Straw Feminists! We are the imaginary beings anti-feminists think are real! We like closets and going “ssssss”!”

Leave the middle text exactly as-is, then replace the bottom with something revealing the joke.

Boom. Still eye-bleeding colors, but at least the content becomes ok.

Jason Neuman
5 years ago

Man, they should name this “I don’t understand Feminism.”

Jason Neuman
5 years ago

Wait, I think his point is right. IF you actually believe these straw arguments, then you are NOT a feminist. I think feminists should present this very list as beliefs real feminist do not have. Make sure you thank this MRA for showing us things that are not feminism.

Charles RB
Charles RB
5 years ago

My favourite part is the complaint that feminists want women to make the same as their “male counterparts, regardless of their career choices, hours worked, qualifications…”

Do you not know what “counterpart” means?

ParadoxicalIntention
5 years ago

BJSparky Edited 1 day ago Professional Interface Designer

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/what-is-that.gif

On what planet? If this “infographic” is anything to go on, this guy’s not a professional anything designer. If I were to present this in one of my graphic design classes, my teachers would have ripped this guy to SHREDS. And rightly so. He did alright with the margins and alignment, but any good poster designer needs to understand: Less is more. We don’t need your infographic Gish Gallop, no thank you.

I am tempted to go through and try to rebut each and every one, but there’s far, far too many. So, I’ll make do with David’s selected bits: (Pardon my teal deer, my feminist friend Katie said it was okay.)
_____________________________________

We want any use of violence or abuse on women to be inexcusable, but be perfectly justified when it happens to men, regardless of it’s consensual.

Ew, no. In a perfect world, no one would be hitting anyone. However, I find that MRAs don’t give a shit about women hitting men or getting help for men who have been abused by women (let alone admit that men abuse other men), they just want to be able to “bash a violent bitch” or throw it in a feminist’s face as some sort of lame “gotcha” when they want to derail an argument or a discussion about female abuse victims.

It always seems to come down to “So, if you want equality, does that mean I can hit you?” Why the fuck are these men so eager to learn when they can hit women? Why do you need to hit women? Why can’t you just refrain from hitting?

We will find any reason to justify a woman’s actions in any wrongdoing, and any reason to condemn a man’s actions in any virtue.

Well, if a woman was in fact, wrongdoing, then she’s in the wrong and should be punished. And if a man does good, then he should be rewarded. And vice versa. I have never seen a feminist say otherwise on the grounds of “Women can do no wrong!” or “Men are always wrong!” That’s a strawperson right there.

The problem comes in when someone (usually an MRA) comes in to a discussion and says a man did nothing wrong when he does something terrible like rape/beat/otherwise assault a woman, or a woman has committed all sorts of wrongdoing when she rebuffs a man’s advances or something as equally “sinister”, but turns around and says that a man who was raped by a female teacher or something is “lucky” and “a player” or “a legend”.

In other words, it’s not that feminists want to say that “women can do no wrong and men only do wrong”, so much as it’s MRAs and their ilk going “Women are doing everything wrong and men are just innocent all the time!”

So, nice projection there.

We demand more diversity of females in the media, but eliminated the ones we deem harmful or make us feel uncomfortable and despite not having contributed a significant amount of anything to said arts creation.”

Okay, so only the creators should get a say in media creation, and everything has to be judged in a vacuum?

Alright. I’ll create a comic where men are only there to help the female protagonists, but only here and there (because no one wants to read a comic about men, ew, they have cooties!) and don’t contribute anything to the story beyond their looks and a small quip or a question that proves that they’re just there to be eye candy and don’t have any brains! And you can’t say anything about it because you didn’t help create it!

See how silly that sounds?

We want a woman’s mood and actions to not be judged by her menstruation, but be able to use it as an excuse to justify any wrongdoings.

Wut? Okay, so what kind of “wrongdoings” would you be talking about here? I have never heard any stories of a woman doing anything “wrong” and blaming it on her period.

Unless you’re mad that our periods just make us less inclined to deal with your bullshit, because pain, hormone imbalances, and bleeding are not fun activities, and dealing with a bunch of whiny dudebros on top of that would only make us even less chipper.

We believe women are and should be treated as complex human beings, whereas men are simple-minded that require little to no respect

Now you’re just grasping at straws. What little straws are left after you constructed this giant straw-feminist that is this entire poster.
_____________________________________

Long story short, thanks for telling us what feminism isn’t, dude! Don’t worry your pretty little head, we got this shit.

zarathustratheserpent
5 years ago

Legibility is also misandry.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

“Legibility is also misandry.”

Certainly. Because if this poster were legible, everyone could see that it’s just saying “Feminists are meanie pies” in 100 slightly different ways.

By the way, is it even English. For example, how can a woman be “judged by her menstruation”? Does she dress the tampon in a little black robe?

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
5 years ago

Re: Menstruation and PMS.

I think it is… telling that the biggest “symptom” of PMS in popular culture is irritability, something that is really rare, from what I can tell from talking to actual menstruating women. But you know, it effects important people (cis men) and it makes an excellent excuse to brush off a woman’s concerns. If she’s emotional? Its just PMS. If she isn’t? It isn’t that big of a deal.

Talking to, you know, people who menstruate, the biggest effects of PMS/menstruation usually involve pain and hassle, but those don’t effect men, so culture does not give a fuck.

friday jones
friday jones
5 years ago

Here is my infographic in the form of a word search puzzle:

KMIXO
BATHE
VLIND
TEARS

suffrajitsu
suffrajitsu
5 years ago

Looking at the rows and columns, that’s about 100 different statements. 100! Ignore the fact that they’re ridiculously straw-y for a second. (Easy enough to do, since it takes some effort just to read them.) Take virtually *any* position and put 100 different statements that contradict it that aren’t completely ridiculous, and I think almost anyone would be guilty of thinking at least one of them. (I hate how “Everyone’s racist” is used as a deflector of racism, but it is generally true that virtually everybody is guilty of some form of hypocrisy, bias, fallacies etc.) That doesn’t mean the whole cause is wrong, it means it’s supported by humans.

This is beautifully tragic. Clearly whoever made it has better graphic abilities than your average MS-painting MRA, but they took that much time to make something that unreadable?

Matthew Chiglinsky
5 years ago

No one truly understands feminism, because feminism is a word hidden behind by lots of people with lots of different agendas.

dvarghundspossen
5 years ago

Chie Satonaka: that proposal was made jokingly, by a MALE party member, who was tired of the mess in the men’s restroom.

Eliot Rodger Was A Terrorist
Eliot Rodger Was A Terrorist
5 years ago

There’s a better way to sum up what the Manospherians believe: parody a Village People song!

http://www.amiright.com/parody/70s/thevillagepeople52.shtml

lith
lith
5 years ago

@Spindrift:

Could it be a reference to shirtgate?

Ooh, could be! That would be the usual, “I have exactly one counter-example which entirely outweighs every one of the millions of examples of the opposite, because it was a man experiencing it”.
Aw, please make them stop! The main mrightsers say such stupid things and I feel kind of embarrassed on their behalf, when I’m not feeling annoyed at how awful they are.

ParadoxicalIntention
5 years ago

Matthew Chiglinsky | March 6, 2015 at 12:28 am

No one truly understands feminism, because feminism is a word hidden behind by lots of people with lots of different agendas.

Translation: “I don’t understand the fact that feminism is made up of a bunch of different people with different thoughts, feelings, and needs about all kinds of subjects, and thus is a very complex topic that covers lots of other topics. Since I can’t understand it, no one can, because I’m obviously the most intelligent individual here.

I could ask for help with my understanding, but instead I’m going to be lazy and just not bother because that would involve me challenging my own world-views. But I don’t want everyone else to think I’m lazy, so I’m just going to blame feminism’s complexity on the feminists and go sulk.”

Tessa
5 years ago

ParadoxicalIntention: And of course he’ll use the word “agendas” to make it all more sinistery and selfish.