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creepy entitled babies evil fat fatties evil sexy ladies evil ugly women heartiste irony alert men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny PUA reactionary bullshit red pill ugly feminists woman's suffrage

Pickup guru Heartiste launches innovative "well, you're ugly and you can't get laid" campaign against feminists

Psst, dudes, the sufragettes won.
Psst, dudes, the sufragettes won.

Fellas, make up your minds! Are feminist ladies wily seductresses out to entrap innocent men using the power of their sexiness? Or are they evil uggos who never get laid?

While the zeta males over at A Voice for Men lament their alleged victimization at the hands of an alleged undercover feminist honey trap, who allegedly lured them into skeezy behavior by, among other things, crossing and uncrossing her legs, our old friend Heartiste once again assures his readers that feminist ladies are icky fugs:

A powerful shiv to the bloated gut of feminism is to remind normal, attractive women of the gross, ugly, and deranged feminist women (and their effete male lackeys) who purport to speak for all women. Women are nothing if not herd followers, and if it’s made clear to the Normal Majority of women that feminists are unbangable fugs no worthwhile man would touch with a manlet’s micropeen, then the herd will change course and leave the losers in its dust.

Hate to break it to you, dude, but you’re not the first person to try to defeat feminism using the brilliant strategy of calling feminists ugly. It never works.

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Orion
5 years ago

Social Mangina of Grumpy Justice, perhaps.

Mikki
Mikki
5 years ago

Apparently in 1914 the worst thing a woman could do to ruin her appearance was get a sunburn.

Kootiepatra
5 years ago

@GrumpyOldMangina – did I read it right that they were originally accusing you of being another sock of that one lady they keep appending names to, before deciding you must be a sock of David? And that they didn’t so much as skip a beat between the two accusations?

Dvärghundspossen
5 years ago

Re Ad hominem arguments… Occasionally, in philosophy, you encounter the following use of the term “ad hominem”:

Professor A: I argue that X, because blablabla.
Professor B: Professor A, you’re inconsistent. You argue that X now, but normally, you argue that Y, in fact, you’re famous for arguing that Y. And Y actually implies not-X
Professor B (continues): Of course that was merely an ad hominem – I do believe, however, that there are independent reasons as to why we ought not to accept X, regardless of whether we believe Y or not, such as blablabla.

I sometimes wonder whether that’s the original use of the term “ad hominem”, and later on it went on to cover “you say so, but you’re FAT!” as well. I mean, professor B above, in his first argument, does attack professor A (for being inconsistent) rather than his argument, but it’s a personal attack on a wholly different level than “well you’re FAT!”.

Ellesar
5 years ago

The ‘all feminists are ugly’ thing is SO old and obviously inaccurate, and could only possibly work on extremely insecure girls and women, whom I believe are the preferred targets of the PUA’s as they can be manipulated more easily into sexual acts. This is the problem, that PUA’s like to target young vulnerable women. What they think of any feminists appearance or features is of no consequence to any secure and self respecting person.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

Fear of being alone is pretty powerful, especially for many women, who face more intense pressure to get coupled up and have babies (if wanted) at an earlier age.

However, Heartiste and ilk, in their rush to leverage that, have failed to realize that they are a fate much, much worse than being alone. They’re an embarrassment, a resume stain, a pestilence. They’re a terrible and easily forgotten one night stand at most, a creepy loser annoying people in a nightclub, following women into restrooms, sending angry texts, leaving stalkery voice mails. They are not what women are looking for. Being called ugly by them brings the same sense of relief as being turfed out from hell by Satan.

It’s an interesting glimpse into their mental gymnastics, though. They need to divide up the whole world into “teams” and pretend that all the pretty girls are on their team, otherwise it’s game over as far as ever getting laid.

proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

If a woman somehow manages to meet our incredibly rigid beauty standards, Heartiste thinks she is a sex toy. If she doesn’t, Heartiste thinks she’s trash. In either case, feminism thinks she is a person.

QFT.

proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

And GOM (& anyone else commenting over on the GQ article): You’re fighting the good fight.
I certainly can’t.

Anytime I inadvertently get into a “debate” with one of those fuckers (they’re really do flood *anything* having to do with feminism, even PBS & NPR FB comments sections) I always have something else to do. They then congratulate themselves on their “victory” after I stop responding to their (nearly frikkin’ limitless) bile.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I learned that feminists were called ugly as some sort of pathetic half assed argument against them when I was in 5th grade and doing a report on Susan B Anthony and the suffrage movement. I rolled my eyes then. It’s pretty cute that they think it’s going to deter the majority of grown women.

proxieme
proxieme
5 years ago

*squints*

I either meant “they really do flood” or “they’re”….no, I meant the first one.

Either way,

http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxdzrdBm101qc1ltro1_500.jpg

Lea
Lea
5 years ago

Being called ugly by them brings the same sense of relief as being turfed out from hell by Satan.

Too true, Buttercup Q. Skullpants. Being told you don’t possess the qualities PUAs find attractive is like being told the same by a dog’s pecker gnat. I don’t think it has the effect on women they think it does.

They are relying on a culture that teaches women that their only value is in their looks being appealing to men. Feminists have spent years dismantling that culture and misogynists hate the results.

“You’re Ugly”

OK

“You’re fat”

OK

“You are worthless and no one will ever love you.”

Um…no. Toodles!

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

WWTH: “Ugly” is irrelevant to feminists, as we still see the person as a person (thumbs up to whoever wrote proxieme’s quote). But to Heartiste and his lapdogs, a woman’s only value is in her looks and he is projecting that attitude onto women as well. Thinking that since we value ourselves for our appearance we’d be crushed by being called “ugly”…sorry dude, not how that works.

It would be a bit like trying to stop me from my goals by saying I’m bad at maths. Even if that was true, maths has nothing to do with my goals so why the hell would it bother me?

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

Damn you Lea, you ninja you.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I would think that just about any woman, no matter how she looks would rather join a group that tells women we’re people than a movement that tells women they dislike that they’re ugly (and therefore worthless) and tells men they dislike that they’re effeminate and small peened (therefore worthless).

I get that they think women are worth nothing beyond our looks, but I guess it just cracks me up that they have never heard the adage “you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.” Most toxic movements do realize that, but the manosphere doesn’t and that’s why the revolution the hope for will never come. Nobody will ever be attracted to them besides the people already of that mindset to begin with.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Being called ugly by them brings the same sense of relief as being turfed out from hell by Satan.

To be damned by the devil is to be truly blessed. And to be called unfuckable by a guy no one wants to fuck is the same.

Ellesar
5 years ago

Low level street harassment is called the ‘pretty girls’ problem. I don’t actually agree with that, but if sleazebags WERE responding to my ‘beauty’ THAT was what made me a feminist! By the age of 13 I had been harassed probably at least 100 times, and when you are a child it is that much more scary. That was when I became a feminist, knowing that this objectification was a direct result of mens’ power over women and girls, and nothing to do with my looks.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

@Ellesar Exactly. It’s all excuses to try and deflect responsibility. Assholes have been doing it for years and the MRM continues to. Remember: no matter what the issue is, it’s always a woman’s fault.

Ellesar
5 years ago

sunnysombrera – they constantly contradict themselves – the harassment is supposed to be a ‘compliment’, ie they think we are attractive (like I gave a shit!), but then as soon as we do not like being humiliated by screams of ‘get your tits out’ etc and let them know this we are ‘ugly whores’!

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

@Ellesar – which pretty much proves that for them, “attractive” is nothing more than a synonym for “willing to put out”. It’s not like your looks change dramatically in the 30 seconds it takes for them to go from “hey baby baby ur gorgeous” to “ugly frigid lesbo skank, no one would want to fuck you anyway”.

All in all, this is a delightfully terrible vintage from Chateau Heartiste, made from the sourest of grapes.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

@Kootiepatra: Yeah, at first they thought I was a sock for a woman named (IIRC) Diana Boston — who must be a hell of a woman if she has gotten under the MRAs’ skin to that extent.
The newest post on the thread is a call to “investigate” Jeff Sharlet — i.e., dig up dirt if possible, maybe a bit of doxx-and-threaten. Sharlet is a faculty member at Dartmouth, and Dartmouth has plenty of ways of protecting its own, so if they go to threats they might find their asses in a sling. He’s not going to be easy game like Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkeesian, who don’t have powerful organizations watching their backs.

As to street harassment, I think it is mostly done by men who feel powerless, who look at “attractive” women as toys for more powerful men who think they are too good for guys like them. Trying to take them down a peg is very much a sour grapes thing. My wife once got me a job doing grounds maintenance at the office building where she worked. The men never verbally harassed anyone — they would have been fired on the spot — but also they were nicer to the women (and vice versa) in person than they needed to be. But they spent the last half hour of every day sitting in the garage analyzing the women in fairly graphic anatomical detail. I always felt that the real issue was a class one — the mostly college-educated women in their mostly stylish business attire pursuing mostly middle to high-level careers vs the far less well-educated men in grubby work clothes with very restricted career possibilities. The anatomical analyses seemed to be a way of trying to cut the women down to size. It was more resentment than anything else. There’s the perception that if you were single and she was single and you asked her for a date, she’d laugh at your presumption — the old Margaret Atwood syndrome.
On a deeper level, it comes from the fact that society tells you what you need to do to be a “real man” and then denies you a chance to achieve it. It is very similar, in fact, to the way society seems to require unachievable beauty of women.

sunnysombrera
5 years ago

GOM: That was deep. And an excellent point.

I also wonder if they’re trying to use interaction with women as a way to boost their day a little. To feel better about themselves. They expect women to talk back and when they don’t the men flip out. Their good feels had been denied by the bitch. Cause there’s totally nothing wrong with what HE’S doing, no sir.

Jarnsaxa
Jarnsaxa
5 years ago

I’d be quite surprised if they went after Sharlet and not Blair, since she’s the woman and therefore infinitely more deserving of their venom. And she might not have Sharlet’s resources, either. (That’s pure conjecture, though.)

These guys usually go for whatever their warped perception tells them is the “softer” target.

KaitlynS
KaitlynS
5 years ago

The GQ piece doesn’t do one single thing for women or feminism. Look at who their subscribers are…. the upper crust of the Patriarchy. This article just gives them someone to feel superior to… the embittered losers of the MRA crowd. But all the while they will continue hawking their luxury goods to the world’s male noveau riche and setting up playgrounds for them (just google their club in Dubai) where they can use their riches to have their way with young women from Russia, Lithuania, or wherever. They are not allies. Not in the least.

samantha
samantha
5 years ago

Women are nothing if not herd followers, and if it’s made clear to the Normal Majority of women that feminists are unbangable fugs no worthwhile man would touch with a manlet’s micropeen, then the herd will change course and leave the losers in its dust.

Ummm…so, now we are not just ugly and evil, but we are herd animals as well. Duuuuudes… get real! It ain’t WOMEN signing up to start and fight wars in mass herds. That herd mentality? IT BELONGS TO YOU!!! Yes, some women enlist, but women, in general, do not create militaries, break down folk in boot camp and then rebuild them as soldiers so that they – our sons, brothers and friends – can be thrown at each other for old men’s profits and power! And women do not, at the age of 17 or thereabouts, look for a gigantic, heroic and violent herd to belong to.

The older I get, the more I think that it is not women who are the obedient and pliable sex. That belongs to the menfolk. At least to those guys who have not outgrown the need to “belong to something greater then themselves.”

Sorry for the rant-like feel to the above. I was just thinking about a young man I once knew. He was a sweetheart – a gay boy who wanted to be, and would have been, a great dancer. His father was so ashamed of his “wimpy” son that said son, in order to get his dad to love him, enlisted, went to Viet Nam and never came home. He was my friend, and his father had the nerve to tell everyone how proud he was that his kid had died for him and his country. I still hate that bastard.

katz
5 years ago

The GQ piece doesn’t do one single thing for women or feminism. Look at who their subscribers are…. the upper crust of the Patriarchy. This article just gives them someone to feel superior to… the embittered losers of the MRA crowd. But all the while they will continue hawking their luxury goods to the world’s male noveau riche and setting up playgrounds for them (just google their club in Dubai) where they can use their riches to have their way with young women from Russia, Lithuania, or wherever. They are not allies. Not in the least.

Sooooo…would it have been better for them to publish an article in favor of MRAs?

ethfiel
5 years ago

If what Professor B uses is an ad hominem I´d even say it is sometimes justified. How else could one detect double standards?

alaisvex
alaisvex
5 years ago

The GQ piece doesn’t do one single thing for women or feminism.

It makes the MRAs look like the angry, deceptive, rape-apologizing, non-men-helping creeps that they are. That’s one thing for women and feminism.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

I think street harassment is basically intended to humiliate women in return for the humiliation many working-class men feel at not being able to live up to the unachievable goals society sets for them. Working-class males have taken a major economic hit over the last few decades due to the shipping of their jobs to low-wage countries and the resulting depressing effect on the wages of those that still have jobs. They can’t (or don’t have the courage to) go after the Man, so they settle for harassing what they perceive as His women.
The Man, of course, has only one indispensable role for working-class men — cannon fodder — and it suits the purposes of the economic powers to encourage men to blame their plight on the nasty feminists rather than the plutocrats who ship their jobs overseas. Feminism is still largely a movement of more intelligent, well-educated women and men who tend to have fairly good career prospects. Blue collar men have fairly poor prospects and are, to some extent, barely hanging on in today’s economy. That makes it difficult for them to hold on to their self-respect. I am not defending street harassers — I’m just suggesting that they have real reason to feel bitter but they are taking it out on the wrong people (the softest target?).

As to GQ, I really don’t know its demographic, but I suspect it has similarities to the demographic of Playboy when I was young. Everybody focused on the centerfolds, but in fact they were just bait to trap insecure young guys who thought they wanted to grow up to be that suave, sophisticated Playboy image. They were then given all sorts of instructions on things like food, wine, cars, cologne, watches etc.etc. (including, unfortunately, women as a consumer good) — things that a real Playboy would already know — and then exposed to pages and pages of ads. Playboy in its heyday was a FAT magazine. So I would guess that GQ is read more by aspiring young gentlemen than by established older gentlemen. Assuming that is the case, it is worthwhile to nudge any of them that might be vulnerable to the MRA propaganda in another direction.

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

By a curious coincidence, I had my sister in law over for cocktails just last night. She’s in her late forties, never married, and adopted her daughter around thirteen years ago. She’s a successful professional who owns her own home, volunteers at her daughter’s school, and enjoys recreational ballroom dancing. We had, as she would put it, a whee of a time catching up. Then her daughter texted her that dinner was ready, and off she went.

What a miserable, man-deprived life she must be living. /sarc

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
5 years ago

@samantha Masses of young, bitter MRAs are out there brigading comment sections, implementing “black ops”, and harassing whoever the target du jour is. And women are the herd animals??

ParadoxicalIntention
5 years ago

weirwoodtreehugger | February 28, 2015 at 8:40 am

I would think that just about any woman, no matter how she looks would rather join a group that tells women we’re people than a movement that tells women they dislike that they’re ugly (and therefore worthless) and tells men they dislike that they’re effeminate and small peened (therefore worthless).

I get that they think women are worth nothing beyond our looks, but I guess it just cracks me up that they have never heard the adage “you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.” Most toxic movements do realize that, but the manosphere doesn’t and that’s why the revolution the hope for will never come. Nobody will ever be attracted to them besides the people already of that mindset to begin with.

Quoting that first paragraph for truth, but the second one I have to disagree with. Manosperhians know ALL ABOUT “catching more flies with honey than with vinegar”. If they didn’t, why would they come in here or in other feminist spaces and whine about how mean we are and how we’d win more people over if we were nicer to men (i.e. feminists need to shut the fuck up unless they’re talking about what they can do for men).

They just choose to pull the “do as I say, not as I do” bullshit card.

Ellesar
5 years ago

GrumpyOldMangina – I only agree that it is related to class to a small extent. Yes, when the people involved are of similar age perhaps, in social/ work situations, but when I think of how much I hated the continual attention it is the much older men on their own who were the worst. If I had taken all the offers of money for sex I would have made a fortune in my teens!

They were much creepier than the verbal abuse from the building sites etc (though I admit I did learn to dread them as the response was SO predictable and standing up for yourself just wasn’t an option), and I don’t think those men would have been assessing me on the basis of which socio economic group I belonged to anyway.

If I opened my mouth, yes, it was obvious I was middle class, but as I said I just tried to ignore it. Middle aged men on the other hand are fairly confident and clearly the kind that approached me had a huge sense of entitlement, and also I think often it was part of the thrill for them to humiliate and intimidate a young woman/ girl.

I certainly agree that a lot of it is done to humiliate, but that is not just coming from working class men to middle class girls/ women. There is definitely a strong sense in most societies that children and young women are people who do not deserve respect, and when they feel like it some men will do their best to make you feel uncomfortable, at best.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

@Ellesar Obviously and unfortunately you have a lot more experience in this than I do. I have probably lived a sheltered life, but I can’t imagine walking up to a random teenage girl, offering her money for sex, and thinking that there’s a real chance that she’d say yes. I would think it would be more likely intended to insult and humiliate her.
Older men do find younger girls attractive, but they know that most young girls don’t find them attractive in the least. I remember chatting with an attractive young woman and her laughing and telling me about this old guy who had asked her for a date. The old guy was several years younger that I was. I had no intention of asking her for a date — she was clearly too young for me (though not in the legal sense), but it did sting a bit that she thought a guy my age being interested in a girl her age was funny.

I learn a bit more about the depravity of my fellow men every day. It’s really depressing.

samantha
samantha
5 years ago

@samantha Masses of young, bitter MRAs are out there brigading comment sections, implementing “black ops”, and harassing whoever the target du jour is. And women are the herd animals??

My pointy exactly! Back in the early days of the second wave feminism, we got together in consciousness raising groups, wrote, explored our histories, our creativities and possible solutions to the problems of patriarchy. We examined the effects of patriarchal attitudes on women, children, AND on men. We opened up to embrace the ecology and civil rights movements as sister concerns, as important as feminism and as deserving of our time, attention and labor. Were and are we perfect? Nope, but feminism has NEVER tried to end ANYONE’S freedom and self-respect, unlike more than a few “nice” guys we have all come to know and…well…love is not really the right word.

There is so much more, but we get the picture. Patrarchal/corporate culture has been trying to put women back in the teeny-tiny box it has for us, and the guys walk in lockstep to achieve that goal. And WE are the herd animals???????

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

@samantha: If we (women or men) ARE herd animals why does society work so hard to scare us into staying with the herd?

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

Grumpyoldmangina – my personal belief is that humans associating like the primates we are (cf. Monkeysphere) makes it more difficult for certain people to manipulate us as if we were domesticated herd animals. Therefore, it is in the interest of those people for us to act unlike other primates. Instead of being gregarious, we are persuaded to be social. Herdlike behavior is rewarded, bandlike behavior is calumniated.

I do like the fact that, unlike chimpanzees, you can have large numbers of unrelated humans sharing a social space without bloodshed and death. Most of the time.

AllisonW
AllisonW
5 years ago

I’ve noticed that a lot of people (including myself in my teenage years) overlook the fact that it’s herbivores and similar prey animals that travel in herds, not predators. Humans, being the most predatory creature on the planet, are better described as pack animals than herd animals.

samantha
samantha
5 years ago

@samantha: If we (women or men) ARE herd animals why does society work so hard to scare us into staying with the herd?

Another good point! To add to that, if women are, by nature, submissive and want men to dominate us, why the hell do men have to work so hard to force us to comply? I mean, if it were natural, why would we fight it? Yet we do, and we always have and always will. Seems to me that the problem is in the male patriarchal psyche.

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

@samantha “To add to that, if women are, by nature, submissive and want men to dominate us, why the hell do men have to work so hard to force us to comply?”

That “women are submissive and want men to control them” thing always reminds me of the racist argument that black slaves were happy and peaceful serving their white masters. Making the ones who challenged that belief the “bad” ones, just like feminist women are seen by some as the bad ones who rock the boat by “going against their nature”.

Orion
5 years ago

Can I just say the the comments in this thread about “coat hangar marks” are super creepy and totally uncool?

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
5 years ago

Agreed.

GrumpyOldMangina
5 years ago

“women are, by nature, submissive and want men to dominate them”

Translated from Manspeak to English: “Oh, how desperately we wish women were submissive and wanted men to dominate them.”

Of course for much of recent Western history women were generally restricted to the home, denied education, and limited by an inferior legal status. Under the circumstances they had little choice but to be submissive, as the punishment for not being submissive could be quite severe.

Hey guys — the genie managed to get out of the bottle and she’s not going back.

(The real problem is that a lot of men are brought up to believe that a man who can’t dominate “his” woman is not really a man at all. That sort of belief makes it basically impossible to relate to most women today)

contrapangloss
5 years ago

…thirding Orion.

Really not cool and really, really disturbing.

contrapangloss
5 years ago

Oh, and congrats on truly becoming one with the ferrets in the catsuits in the David suit, so much so that MRA’s see through our ferretty disguise. It’s clever of them to realize we are all David.

Or we’re all ferrets.

Or something like that.

katz
5 years ago

Can I just say the the comments in this thread about “coat hangar marks” are super creepy and totally uncool?

Um, yeah.

For the record, nobody gets a free pass by framing a comment as “I shouldn’t make a comment about X.”

Spindrift
Spindrift
5 years ago

…fifthing Orion.

over it.
over it.
5 years ago

I used to argue with people on sites like these and then I realized their only relevance is unto themselves. Everything is so twisted. I guess everyone tries to grab what they want at the expense of everyone else(Cue oppressive men comments). The depth I need I found and it isn’t here on MRA or Feminist boards. Zeta males indeed.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
5 years ago

Good for you, over it. Good for you.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

over it. | March 11, 2015 at 2:46 pm

I used to argue with people on sites like these and then I realized their only relevance is unto themselves. Everything is so twisted. I guess everyone tries to grab what they want at the expense of everyone else(Cue oppressive men comments). The depth I need I found and it isn’t here on MRA or Feminist boards. Zeta males indeed.

Ah, the ol’ “I don’t really need you, but I need to tell you that or you won’t know to miss me!” comment.

We were far happier not knowing, (Not Quite) over it.