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Pickup guru Roosh V: End rape by making it legal

Roosh V: End rape by legalizing it
Roosh V: End rape by legalizing it

“Game” guru Roosh Valizadeh is tired of hearing that “men can stop rape.”

As far as he’s concerned, the problem isn’t men — who already know that rape is bad. No, it’s women.

Looking back on his own life, he wrote in a blog post yesterday (archived here),

I saw women wholly unconcerned with their own safety and the character of men they developed intimate relationships with. I saw women who voluntarily numbed themselves with alcohol and other drugs in social settings before letting the direction of the night’s wind determine who they would follow into a private room. I saw women who, once feeling awkward, sad, or guilty for a sexual encounter they didn’t fully remember, call upon an authority figure to resolve the problem by locking up her previous night’s lover in prison or ejecting him from school.

Evidently, in Roosh”s view, women are at fault when they enter a bedroom with the wrong man, but men aren’t at fault for being this wrong man. It’s a convenient argument for Roosh, who by all accounts including his own is one of these wrong men. Indeed, in his e-book Bang Iceland he admitted, rather nonchalantly, that he once raped a woman who was too drunk to consent.  As he described the events of that evening:

While walking to my place, I realized how drunk she was. In America, having sex with her would have been rape, since she legally couldn’t give her consent. It didn’t help matters that I was relatively sober, but I can’t say I cared or even hesitated. I won’t rationalize my actions, but having sex is what I do.

Now back to the rapist’s proposal to end rape:

By attempting to teach men not to rape, what we have actually done is teach women not to care about being raped, not to protect themselves from easily preventable acts, and not to take responsibility for their actions. At the same time, we don’t hesitate to blame men for bad things that happen to them (if right now you walked into a dangerous ghetto and got robbed, you would be called an idiot and no one would say “teach ghetto kids not to steal”).

I’m pretty sure that we already do teach “ghetto kids” — and non-“ghetto” kids — not to steal. And we put adults in prison for it.

It was obvious to me that the advice of our esteemed establishment writers and critics wasn’t stopping the problem, and since rape was already on the law books with severe penalties, additional laws or flyers posted on dormitory doors won’t stop this rape culture either.

Well, it didn’t stop Roosh. But it does stop others. While still horrifyingly common, rape rates have dropped considerably over the past several decades, helped by laws like VAWA and the sort of rape awareness campaigns that MRAs and other misogynists have always railed against.

But never mind, because Roosh has figured out what he thinks is a much better solution:

make rape legal if done on private property. I propose that we make the violent taking of a woman not punishable by law when done off public grounds.

What!?

While Roosh thinks that “those seedy and deranged men who randomly select their rape victims on alleys and jogging trails” should still be jailed, if only to keep them off the street, he argues that “on private property, any and all rape that happens should be completely legal.”So how would this, er, solution end rape?

If rape becomes legal under my proposal, a girl will protect her body in the same manner that she protects her purse and smartphone.

Apparently in Roosh’s imaginary world, women are more concerned about the well-being of their iPhones than their own bodily integrity.

If rape becomes legal, a girl will not enter an impaired state of mind where she can’t resist being dragged off to a bedroom with a man who she is unsure of—she’ll scream, yell, or kick at his attempt while bystanders are still around. If rape becomes legal, she will never be unchaperoned with a man she doesn’t want to sleep with.

I was going to ask “what if her ‘chaperone’ decides to rape her,” but there’s no point in trying to address any of Roosh’s argument here logically.

After several months of advertising this law throughout the land, rape would be virtually eliminated on the first day it is applied.

Uh, how?

Without daddy government to protect her, a girl would absolutely not enter a private room with a man she doesn’t know or trust unless she is absolutely sure she is ready to sleep with him. Consent is now achieved when she passes underneath the room’s door frame, because she knows that that man can legally do anything he wants to her when it comes to sex.

Roosh seems to think that rape only happens when drunk women invite strangers wearing “I HEART Raping Women” t-shirts into their apartments. In fact, as RAINN points out, only about a quarter of all rapists are strangers. Roughly 40% are friends or acquaintances; another 30% are in a relationship with the victim, and 7% are family members. In other words, most rapes are committed by people that the victim knows and trusts.

Bad encounters are sure to occur, but these can be learning experiences for the poorly trained woman so she can better identify in the future the type of good man who will treat her like the delicate flower that she believes she is. After only one such sour experience, she will actually want to get fully acquainted with a man for longer than two hours—perhaps even demanding to meet his parents—instead of letting a beer chug prevent her from making the correct decisions to protect her body.

I don’t even know what to say to this. It’s not just that Roosh seems almost inhuman in his utter lack of empathy. It’s that the women he has the most contempt for are the very women he targets as a “pickup artist,” women at bars who are open to the possibility of casual sex.

Because women will never enter a man’s apartment without accepting that sex will happen, he can escort her to his bedroom and romantically consummate a relationship after it was certain he proved himself to be a good and decent man the woman fully trusted.

Does Roosh actually think he comes even remotely close to being a good man who is worthy of any woman’s trust?

It turns out that we don’t need more laws, policies, and university propaganda that treat every man like a criminal and every woman like a mild retardate—we need more common sense that can only come from making rape legal.

Yes, dear reader, you did just read a sentence in which the idea of making rape legal is described as “common sense.”

Such a change will provide a mature jolt to American women who have been babied for too long, who are protected and coddled as if they have no agency or intellect of their own. If a woman is indeed a child then maybe we really need to keep promoting “rape culture” as a way to keep them safe, but if they are actual adults, which is often claimed, then we can start treating them like adults by allowing them to take responsibility for the things that happen to them which are easily preventable with barely a strain of cognitive thought, awareness, and self control.

Huh. Earlier, Roosh compared rape to property theft. If the two are analogous, why isn’t Roosh advocating that we get rid of the laws that make theft illegal. By Roosh’s logic, don’t laws against theft “coddle” property owners and deny them “agency and intellect?”

Let’s make rape legal. Less women will be raped because they won’t voluntarily drug themselves with booze and follow a strange man into a bedroom, and less men will be unfairly jailed for what was anything but a maniacal alley rape. Until then, this devastating rape culture will continue, and women who we treat as children will continue to act like children.

Roosh seems a little confused as to who is acting like a child here.

So is Roosh being facetious here? Is this just a Swiftian “Modest Proposal?”

Certainly, Roosh is being deliberately provocative — no doubt hoping to generate as many pageviews as possible from whatever controversy ensues.

And I’m fairly certain that he is not altogether serious about his proposal, which would effectively mean that no woman would ever go home with him or any of his readers ever again.

But I don’t see a Swiftian satire here.  Roosh’s “argument” here, such as it is, repeats “arguments” he’s made in earnest many times before. He may be taking these arguments to their logical extreme, but he doesn’t seem to be doing so in an attempt to refute them. He clearly doesn’t give a shit about actually preventing rape. His absurdist “proposal” seems mostly to be an excuse to express his contempt for feminists and his hatred of women in general.

Roosh’s fans, for the most part, don’t seem to see the post as satire. Some echo his contemptuous attacks on women.

atlantaOthers second his Men’s Rightsy attack on feminism as something that “infantalizes” women.

shangiA few bring up the name of Jonathan Swift.  LoftBoy thinks Roosh’s proposal is “rediculous” enough to be satire, but thinks it just might work.

loftBut the smartest take on the satire question comes from a commenter who is no fan of Roosh.

rabzee

 

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totallyalphadudebro
totallyalphadudebro
9 years ago

Ladies, take responsibility for your actions! Because rape is never, NEVER the fault of the rapist!

Also I think we should all know by now that when an MRA/ libertarian (same difference) talks about property be sacred or theft being the only true crime, they’re only referring to the property of men (preferably of the straight, white variety).

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
9 years ago

How nice to know that Roosh is in favour of legalising child sexual abuse.

Lea
Lea
9 years ago

David,
I’d kill a motherfucker who tried to do this shit to me or mine. In that moment when you can maybe, possibly stop a rape I have no problem with violence.

I’m glad you are anti-violence of any kind. I am too. But … this is above and beyond. I’m feeling my roots hard on this one.

Without daddy government to protect her,

Because all government protections, like work safety and civil rights are just pampering citizens and the only reason to protect women is if you own one.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/07/stupid.gif

a private room with a man she doesn’t know or trust unless she is absolutely sure she is ready to sleep with him.

Most women are raped by family members or acquaintances and friends they trust. WTF does this mean for girls raped in their own homes?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mden3qMPoA1rwo29x.gif

Lea
Lea
9 years ago

Nom says the blockquote mammoth.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Ready for a fun game? Pretend that Roosh’s diarhea was actually witty satire in the vain of “A Modest Proposal” by Jonathan Swift, which is apparently the only piece of satire in existance.

The goal: find literally any possible satirical meaning for this piece that makes even the most remote bit of sense. Make sure that satirical meaning isn’t just a less extreme version of the same point (so no “well, don’t make rape legal, but women should be completely responsible for what other people do to them.” Swift didn’t advocate murder of children in any form). Surely there must be something more to it than just “say something awful and then say ‘just kidding at the end'” right?

The points: erm… well, to be honest nobody’s really come up with a score-worthy response yet, so it doesn’t really matter how many points you get. Come up with something and you win all the points!

The clock is set to forever minutes, so take your time! I’m sure somebody will come up with something at some point. Good luck!

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
9 years ago

@Lea I’m with you. And I don’t care what happens to me afterwards. Only 5% of rapes reported to the police in my country result in a trial, and the sentences are a fucking joke. Four years, out in two. Unless you’re a businessman, in which case you get six months and a fine (fortunately it was appealed): http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0731/634201-anthony-lyons-court/

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Cyberwulf:

How nice to know that Roosh is in favour of legalising child sexual abuse.

Funny enough, in the comment section Roosh explicitely said child sexual abuse wouldn’t be allowed under his law. Isn’t he just the best? I’d bring up the “minimum standards” cookie, but honestly he hasn’t come close to earning that yet.

Soon as that kid hits 18 (or 16 if you go by the recommendations of his readers) though…

Lea
Lea
9 years ago

Because women will never enter a man’s apartment without accepting that sex will happen, he can escort her to his bedroom and romantically consummate a relationship after it was certain he proved himself to be a good and decent man the woman fully trusted.

So once he has duped her into trusting him he can legally rape her. Merely stepping into a domicile inhabited by a man make a girl legally rape-able. : “Sure I’ll by your Girl Scout cookies, just stop inside…”

This man is a repulsive person. I’d rather lick the underside of any rock than spend a minute in a room with him.

childrenofthebroccoli
9 years ago

If I wanted to be 100% sure my phone wouldn’t be lost or stolen, I would keep it in a safe under my bed at all times. But I don’t, because then I would never get to enjoy the convenience of owning a smartphone. So I accept the inherent risk in taking it with me, and just try to keep an eye on it.

Same goes for rape, in a way. If I wanted to be completely safe from rape, I could just never leave the house, and never invite anyone over. But that’s a terrible way to live. Putting aside the fact that I might need to call a plumber, electrician, cable guy, etc, never being able to see my friends, go to parties, or even just go for a walk sounds like absolute hell. So I live the way I want to, and try to mitigate risk in other ways.

Alalalyson
9 years ago

honestly tho, i dont see why men are always so convinced women mostly only ever feel guilty about their sexual encounters. its almost like theyre projecting or something…

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

@Lea:

Ignoring the age for a sec, Roosh’s propsal for preventing a man from just dragging a woman kicking and screaming into a private residence is that the kicking and screaming might alert some people around them. If a woman came up to a dude’s door for any reason, even if he didn’t dupe her and she didn’t step inside, she’d be in danger.

Though, here’s a thought… women only ever meet with men at hotels. That’s a public area, rape is illegal still, yet it isn’t in public so sex is still doable. Would Doosh consider that to be women taking enough precautions, or would he change his scenario to allow rape in any bedroom-like area to make it even more difficult for women to have any sort of interaction with men? If he were to change it, one has to wonder (if one isn’t already) what the purpose of the exercise was in the first place.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Let’s pretend hotels were set up with security at the doors so rapists couldn’t sneak incapacitated women outside. Now you can have women safely drink without fearing legal rape in the exact same way women can now, and can even be “home” in a hotel room while still being in public. Is this coddling by big-daddy government, or an absurd loophole for a rediculous law? You decide!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
9 years ago

@ David

“I modded a couple of comments because even purely rhetorical violent comments aren’t allowed.”

I have a bit of a professional interest in the use of violence. Inter alia, I instruct in self defence; including to women’s aid groups. I’d be interested to hear people’s thoughts on this subject.

I should point out that I always say 95% of self defence is non-physical, and we cover that, but we also teach the neck snappy stuff as well.

There are some interesting issues; “empowerment” v “victim blaming”, “could not should” etc. as well as the practical and legal issues.

Perhaps I could invite you to open a thread on this subject at some stage? I’d love to hear people’s views.

Annie Squidface
9 years ago

“I HATE THE SLUTS WHO FUCK ME”, in other words.

Is Douche having a breakdown of some sort? He seems to be revving up to something.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

… Why aren’t there bars with hotel-ish rooms free for the patrons? You know, besides the cost. That’d be kind of awesome. Not that I drink, the concept is just cool.

Sorry for the spam posts… My mind is fleeing from the horrible.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

FFS, even Roosh’s daft scenario requires women to rely on people around them for safety and not solely on themselves. Government and laws are, fundamentally, just ways of people grouping together and agreeing on ways to create a stable society. Why is it that laws making rape illegal are infantilizing while relying on people around you to physically intervene if a dude tries to drag you off is fine?

Analyzing this is like peeling a giant onion made of poo. It gets worse and worse as you go deeper, yet you know the person who gave it to you will swear up and down that there’s real onion in the middle.

M.
M.
9 years ago

Male rape victims have the horrible burden of not being taken seriously or even mocked, but men, at large, do not usually prepare for college by specifically buying pointed key rings to stab potential rapists with (a friend of mine actually did this, and women walking at night with their keys between their knuckles is such a common practice).

Doing that saved me once back in college (turned out to be a mugger, not a rapist, but all I knew at the time was “There is a guy following me, oh God he’s grabbing at me and he has a knife, SELF DEFENSE KEYS”).

CattyGal
CattyGal
9 years ago

Does he really think women are going to take advice from him? A rapist? Someone who admits that he didn’t care less or even hesitate to have sex with a drunk woman who did not give consent. He then has the nerve to say that HE won’t rationalize HIS actions. Why not? Too scared to dig deeper because he knows what a fucking P O S he is? Then he says having sex is what he does. No you freakin jerk. Rape is what YOU do. He should be in jail and he knows it.

Miss Diketon
9 years ago

Oops. I’m one of the ones who got modded. Sorry ’bout that. Here’s some kittens as an apology offering:

http://youtu.be/eiHXASgRTcA

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
9 years ago

Roosh created his hypothetical because he thinks women have grown complacent, and that they rely too much on government to keep them safe. He’s angry that women can just exist, but if men do anything bad like rape, the government will prosecute him. So he says. He thinks that this situation makes women into children that always need a parent around to keep them safe.

So he creates a scenario where women are forced to always have a chaperone (his words) around in order to avoid getting raped. This somehow will force women to “grow up” and be more self reliant.

Wut.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
9 years ago

I’m a little confused by what he means by “private property”, because I’m pretty sure the mall in the next town over counts as private property, as does my workplace. Does he just mean domiciles, like houses or apartments, not public accommodations? Or does he mean any privately-owned building?

Never mind; expecting logic from Roosh is like expecting chocolate to fall out of the sky.

MRA: Malicious Rape Apologists

Also, it seems like to sexists anything women try to do to allow themselves to have full access to public life while minimizing risk (evaluating men for creepiness, trying to shame sexual harassers, looking out for each other) is not okay, but if a woman is raped, she obviously needed to never leave her home.

Unless she was raped in her home, in which case she’s a liar.

Actually, she probably is anyway, but was still asking for it.

Bina
Bina
9 years ago

If rape becomes legal under my proposal, a girl will protect her body in the same manner that she protects her purse and smartphone.

Uh, theft is already illegal, and women still have to protect their personal effects.

Rape is also illegal, and women still have to protect their persons.

I fail to see how legalizing either will make us any more careful. Hell, I’m out of the so-called fuckable age range by a couple of decades, and I’m still cautious to the point of paranoia about my bag AND my ladybits. (No cellphone for me, and no intention of getting one, ever, if I can help it.)

I’m sorry, what’s that you were prattling about men having rationality, Roosh, you grody-haired, ill-smelling, fuck-witted shitfucker?

thehappyfangirl
9 years ago

@SH – Don’t wish rape on anyone. Nobody deserves it, not even cretins like Roosh.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
9 years ago

…And yet, when a woman does take Roosh’s advice and acts as if every unknown man is Schrodinger’s rapist, then she’s a heartless bitch.

Seconding kirbywarp on the Alice-in-Wonderland stupidity of “empowering” women by making them afraid to leave the damn house. If rape were made legal in private spaces, then shitstains like Roosh would be falling all over themselves trying to blur the distinction between public and private, the same as they do now with yes and no. The end result would be public spaces for men only, while women would remain at home under lock and key. Under Roosh’s scheme, women would be even more infantilized.

Roosh’s problem isn’t that women are too coddled and infantilized. It’s that they have autonomy. Autonomy that requires him not to be a shitstain. With this post, he’s admitting that not being a shitstain is too much for him to handle. He’d rather imprison 50% of the population than rein in his predatory behavior because it’s too haaaaaard wah wah wah. (Speaking of infantile….)