“Game” guru Roosh Valizadeh is tired of hearing that “men can stop rape.”
As far as he’s concerned, the problem isn’t men — who already know that rape is bad. No, it’s women.
Looking back on his own life, he wrote in a blog post yesterday (archived here),
I saw women wholly unconcerned with their own safety and the character of men they developed intimate relationships with. I saw women who voluntarily numbed themselves with alcohol and other drugs in social settings before letting the direction of the night’s wind determine who they would follow into a private room. I saw women who, once feeling awkward, sad, or guilty for a sexual encounter they didn’t fully remember, call upon an authority figure to resolve the problem by locking up her previous night’s lover in prison or ejecting him from school.
Evidently, in Roosh”s view, women are at fault when they enter a bedroom with the wrong man, but men aren’t at fault for being this wrong man. It’s a convenient argument for Roosh, who by all accounts including his own is one of these wrong men. Indeed, in his e-book Bang Iceland he admitted, rather nonchalantly, that he once raped a woman who was too drunk to consent. As he described the events of that evening:
While walking to my place, I realized how drunk she was. In America, having sex with her would have been rape, since she legally couldn’t give her consent. It didn’t help matters that I was relatively sober, but I can’t say I cared or even hesitated. I won’t rationalize my actions, but having sex is what I do.
Now back to the rapist’s proposal to end rape:
By attempting to teach men not to rape, what we have actually done is teach women not to care about being raped, not to protect themselves from easily preventable acts, and not to take responsibility for their actions. At the same time, we don’t hesitate to blame men for bad things that happen to them (if right now you walked into a dangerous ghetto and got robbed, you would be called an idiot and no one would say “teach ghetto kids not to steal”).
I’m pretty sure that we already do teach “ghetto kids” — and non-“ghetto” kids — not to steal. And we put adults in prison for it.
It was obvious to me that the advice of our esteemed establishment writers and critics wasn’t stopping the problem, and since rape was already on the law books with severe penalties, additional laws or flyers posted on dormitory doors won’t stop this rape culture either.
Well, it didn’t stop Roosh. But it does stop others. While still horrifyingly common, rape rates have dropped considerably over the past several decades, helped by laws like VAWA and the sort of rape awareness campaigns that MRAs and other misogynists have always railed against.
But never mind, because Roosh has figured out what he thinks is a much better solution:
make rape legal if done on private property. I propose that we make the violent taking of a woman not punishable by law when done off public grounds.
What!?
While Roosh thinks that “those seedy and deranged men who randomly select their rape victims on alleys and jogging trails” should still be jailed, if only to keep them off the street, he argues that “on private property, any and all rape that happens should be completely legal.”So how would this, er, solution end rape?
If rape becomes legal under my proposal, a girl will protect her body in the same manner that she protects her purse and smartphone.
Apparently in Roosh’s imaginary world, women are more concerned about the well-being of their iPhones than their own bodily integrity.
If rape becomes legal, a girl will not enter an impaired state of mind where she can’t resist being dragged off to a bedroom with a man who she is unsure of—she’ll scream, yell, or kick at his attempt while bystanders are still around. If rape becomes legal, she will never be unchaperoned with a man she doesn’t want to sleep with.
I was going to ask “what if her ‘chaperone’ decides to rape her,” but there’s no point in trying to address any of Roosh’s argument here logically.
After several months of advertising this law throughout the land, rape would be virtually eliminated on the first day it is applied.
Uh, how?
Without daddy government to protect her, a girl would absolutely not enter a private room with a man she doesn’t know or trust unless she is absolutely sure she is ready to sleep with him. Consent is now achieved when she passes underneath the room’s door frame, because she knows that that man can legally do anything he wants to her when it comes to sex.
Roosh seems to think that rape only happens when drunk women invite strangers wearing “I HEART Raping Women” t-shirts into their apartments. In fact, as RAINN points out, only about a quarter of all rapists are strangers. Roughly 40% are friends or acquaintances; another 30% are in a relationship with the victim, and 7% are family members. In other words, most rapes are committed by people that the victim knows and trusts.
Bad encounters are sure to occur, but these can be learning experiences for the poorly trained woman so she can better identify in the future the type of good man who will treat her like the delicate flower that she believes she is. After only one such sour experience, she will actually want to get fully acquainted with a man for longer than two hours—perhaps even demanding to meet his parents—instead of letting a beer chug prevent her from making the correct decisions to protect her body.
I don’t even know what to say to this. It’s not just that Roosh seems almost inhuman in his utter lack of empathy. It’s that the women he has the most contempt for are the very women he targets as a “pickup artist,” women at bars who are open to the possibility of casual sex.
Because women will never enter a man’s apartment without accepting that sex will happen, he can escort her to his bedroom and romantically consummate a relationship after it was certain he proved himself to be a good and decent man the woman fully trusted.
Does Roosh actually think he comes even remotely close to being a good man who is worthy of any woman’s trust?
It turns out that we don’t need more laws, policies, and university propaganda that treat every man like a criminal and every woman like a mild retardate—we need more common sense that can only come from making rape legal.
Yes, dear reader, you did just read a sentence in which the idea of making rape legal is described as “common sense.”
Such a change will provide a mature jolt to American women who have been babied for too long, who are protected and coddled as if they have no agency or intellect of their own. If a woman is indeed a child then maybe we really need to keep promoting “rape culture” as a way to keep them safe, but if they are actual adults, which is often claimed, then we can start treating them like adults by allowing them to take responsibility for the things that happen to them which are easily preventable with barely a strain of cognitive thought, awareness, and self control.
Huh. Earlier, Roosh compared rape to property theft. If the two are analogous, why isn’t Roosh advocating that we get rid of the laws that make theft illegal. By Roosh’s logic, don’t laws against theft “coddle” property owners and deny them “agency and intellect?”
Let’s make rape legal. Less women will be raped because they won’t voluntarily drug themselves with booze and follow a strange man into a bedroom, and less men will be unfairly jailed for what was anything but a maniacal alley rape. Until then, this devastating rape culture will continue, and women who we treat as children will continue to act like children.
Roosh seems a little confused as to who is acting like a child here.
So is Roosh being facetious here? Is this just a Swiftian “Modest Proposal?”
Certainly, Roosh is being deliberately provocative — no doubt hoping to generate as many pageviews as possible from whatever controversy ensues.
And I’m fairly certain that he is not altogether serious about his proposal, which would effectively mean that no woman would ever go home with him or any of his readers ever again.
But I don’t see a Swiftian satire here. Roosh’s “argument” here, such as it is, repeats “arguments” he’s made in earnest many times before. He may be taking these arguments to their logical extreme, but he doesn’t seem to be doing so in an attempt to refute them. He clearly doesn’t give a shit about actually preventing rape. His absurdist “proposal” seems mostly to be an excuse to express his contempt for feminists and his hatred of women in general.
Roosh’s fans, for the most part, don’t seem to see the post as satire. Some echo his contemptuous attacks on women.
Others second his Men’s Rightsy attack on feminism as something that “infantalizes” women.
A few bring up the name of Jonathan Swift. LoftBoy thinks Roosh’s proposal is “rediculous” enough to be satire, but thinks it just might work.
But the smartest take on the satire question comes from a commenter who is no fan of Roosh.
Lol. Thanks Feminist for post this. And, I love the misogyny central. I have a lot more anti-feminist sites now to visit (that I never heard about before). You guys are awesome for posting free advertising. 🙂
Aw, poor Sun is trying so hard!
They’re so cute when they try to be smug.
Hi, Flying Mouse! Good to see you.
Wow Sun, No one has ever tried that tactic to get David to stop mocking hate. We’re totally worried that exposing the underside of the Manosphere rock will somehow help misogynists. Really. Very worried. Yup. So worried. Oh what has David wrought with his humor? We’ve been such fools.
Hi, Lea! It’s good to be back!
I hope that y’all are keeping well under that blanket of ice and snow…ugh. Roll on spring!
So now you think non-heterosexual disabled women (of which I am one, hi) would want to listen to Roosh? Yeah… the implying we’re all male wasn’t the wanting to have sex with women part. It was the idea we’d turn to someone like Roosh to help us with this.
And now you’re… complaining I’m erasing everyone who isn’t a cishet white man? When… I was only talking about women. In which all women are included. And moving the goalposts to talk about another disability, great.
Holy something, so many teal deers. Look- disabled people are perfectly capable of not being creeps. Autistic people especially tend to get the reputation of “nice guy.” Yes, some autistic people latch on to that sort of script. They’re still creeps. People who try to do what Roosh tells them to do are at least creeps and have a large possibility of being rapists, no matter their disability status.
And since we haven’t yet achieved a world where sex work is safe and a choice for the people in it, and since it’s also irrelevant to the discussion…
Can a mod come clean up this not-a-MRA-but troll with a teal deer problem? Or at least join me in mocking him? 😉
Think you hit the wrong thread, andiexist! And yeah, I wasn’t too fond of being preached at as a disabled person about my own experience and feelings. (Gee, someone who seems to be non-disabled preaching to me about how I should truly think and feel as a disabled person! That’s not gross and ableist at all!)
What is it with the MRAs who think all advertising is good advertising? Yeesh. I mean, I know why, it’s so they can claim victory no matter what. If we STOPPED talking about them, they’d think we agreed with them, thus victory! If we mock them, we’re advertising for them, thus victory! Defeat is impossible!
Woops! I saw the one about Roosh and presumed that it was the one he dropped about six teal deers in.
I’m so glad you’re back, by the way. Hugs if you want them. 🙂
(Gonna paste my comment into the actual thread now)
Hey Sun, there’s this magical thing called “search engines” that all the kids are using nowadays to find things. Pretty sure those sites get their traffic without any help from David’s blog.
But it’s cute that you needed to detour through here first in order to find those links. Be careful, you might accidentally come into contact with logic.
@Dudley
“(Don’t) invite men into [your] bedrooms late at night if [you’re] not intending to have sex.”
There’s something very wrong with that phrase and it’s hidden meaning. So.. if I WANT to have sex with a man and invite him into my bedroom late at night, that means that he can do whatever he wants with me after he’s there, as I consented to sex first? What will stop a man from raping someone even if that person wanted to have sex with him firsthand? People can still force, get violent and rape once willing people, who believed they would have a consensual encounter.
Sex isn’t rape. People who want to rape doesn’t care about “having sex” (that usually includes also minding your pleasure, your wants and most importantly your consent and not crossing your boundaries) with you. If he starts to violently take me and force me to do things I don’t want, or punching me or penetrating me while I don’t want it, etc., that’s okay because I wanted to have sex anyways and consented first? Do you degenerate straight American dudes really believe “sex” means women letting men do whatever they want to do with them? Because that’s what I get from your comment, and mostly from that phrase.
Let me tell you, I have NEVER heard a man from my Country speaking like that. Sure, we do have filthy degenerates like you, but even our degenerates don’t go that far, and if some go, they are so damn rare I have never encountered them online (and even less in real life). That people all over the world can find SO many American straight dudes talking shit like that online only means your culture has a deep, scary problem with male entitlement to women’s bodies and sex, to say the least. I’m sorry for women living there.
It’s a shame that to give his article a detailed breakdown if how horrifically stupid (and stupidly horrific) it is, it gains a veneer of credibility.
It’s important to mention, as others have done, that rape is very rarely a stranger ‘trying it on’ with a drunk 21 year old girl at a party. Almost always the rapist knows the victim already, and children and men get raped. I wonder how the sociopathic little turd (AKA Roosh) lets those details get in the way of his ‘theorising’.
You know, when I read stuff like this, I sit in silence for moment and think of all the good men I know who wouldn’t dream of rape and would shake their heads at this as I do.
Oh look..another pawn in Roosh’s advertising strategy. He might not be an empath but he prooves to be smarter than you since he manipulates you so well as to bring in more hate and advertising to his blog and books.
@miculcritic: oh no we should never ever talk about problematic things or people because talking about them in any way is supporting them!
This Roosh guy appears never to have been raped himself. Does he think it is fun? A victim (not always a woman) could be dragged/taken from a public to a private space and raped in the latter. Unconscious people or those sleeping, drugged, punched out, drunk, paralysed etc could be raped. So are homeless people in a hidden alley or elsewhere. Not all potential victims are alert, super-smart, non-tired, non-sick, robotlike superhumans capable of judging any situation or fighting off any attacker. He’s read too many graphic novels and watched too much anime. Not every woman is The Bride from Kill Bill. (And for those who’ve seen those films, incidentally, at the very start it’s established that the ‘attendants’ at the hospital spent months raping the protagonist while she was in a coma; and it can also be argued that Bill at some point in the past ‘used to rape her’ because he turned out to be a scumbag.) Disabled and learning disabled people can be victims of rape. So can babies, little children, and old people. People with autism could be victims, and are much more likely to be victims than perpetrators. People with mental health problems could be victims. (In one case I know of locally, a man combined alcohol/Rohypnol with a woman’s pre-existing mental illness, to convince her that he was an angel she must have sex with; and then raped her. I knew him but not her. Both lived in the same housing block for low-budget tenants, with shared facilities. Another man I knew, cheated on his girlfriend and committed at least one rape on a woman with similar problems, using the same argument. Years and years before that, a ‘really nice couple’ I knew at a PEACE group, split up but stayed friends. Later the man, previously one of my best friends, could not accept it, and raped her. She never really got over it, and he never accepted any responsibility.) Rape can occur between spouses and partners. And it can happen in mixed sex groups of friends, colleagues, sportspeople, artists, soldiers, whatever. If a female member of any platonic group is suddenly raped, for example, that does not mean it is her fault, it means ‘somebody truly evil raped her’. Of course gay men and gay women sometimes are perpetrators of sexual attacks on victims too, and even in cases where the victim is gay it’s still rape or assault as they never consented. Another sexual orientation not mentioned is Asexual, Celibate etc. which has never deterred rapists from raping the person anyway. If a woman is heterosexual that does not mean she consents to any kind of sex, at any time, with every male in the world. People are not ‘communal bikes’ to hop on and off, they are human beings with their right not to be touched. Demonising ‘all men’ (what about gay, nonviolent, nonsexist, disabled…. etc. men) as potential rapists, doesn’t help either. People of all sexes and all genders should work together to stop rape, inequality and so on. Known/confirmed/proven rapists need to be punished. The rape problem in India, Pakistan, South Africa, Uganda, USA, UK, everywhere… needs solving and not just with words. Another major problem with Roosh is that his proposals mean ‘might is right’, where the weaker you are the less chance you have of fighting off attackers. If Roosh went to prison, no matter how large and strong he is, there would at some point be someone bigger and stronger, and/or greater in numbers. If he/they decided to rape Roosh, he would be raped. But as it is their home and in private, under his proposals he would have no redress and should not complain about it! ‘Collective punishment rape’ of male prisoners of war was known thousands of years ago in the Middle/Near East, as a way to dominate and humiliate, and to mark territory. No form of rape can be justified. The women in detention centres for immigrants, many of whom are genuine asylum seekers fleeing previous rape and torture, are even today being raped by guards and male inmates. Again, their surroundings are ‘private’. Children in care, in churches, and in ‘normal/respectable’ families, are being raped right now. Sex workers, again not always female, risk rape on a daily basis from pimps, clients , strangers, and opponents to sex workers. Some people are raped by their teacher, private tutor, boss, gardener, taxi driver, brother, lecturer, doctor, priest, therapist/counsellor, ‘American football buddy/teammate’… Even by police officers. Women in Egypt taking part in the Arab Spring, reported being arrested for demonstrating for democracy, then stripped and raped by police/guards and anti-democracy civilians. Among strangers or acquaintances, mixed-sex meetings where drinks/coffee are agreed to; this is NOT consent to sex or an invitation to it. Rape can be called a war crime in war contexts (Rwanda, Balkans), and is recognised as torture by the UN and Amnesty International in every context. In South Africa and Uganda gang rape as a punishment/’cure’ is done to lesbian women and girls, among other victims. In youth gangs worldwide, rape of the female members or the girlfriends of males, is done for initiation, shared ownership, punishment, and to prove ownership/power. Rape is no fun at all. The only people who like rape, are rapists and those who are aroused by rape. I may not be their biggest fan, but if somebody raped my sister or my mother, I’d want to do ‘really bad things’ to the rapist. Legalising rape is like legalising paedophilia, or passing a law that said the stronger can do whatever they like to the weaker and get away with it. Stealing whatever you want because ‘he’s only an old man, I’ll take his television’; Raping anyone ‘she’s plus-size and so I’ll rape her’; Assaulting people ‘oh look, a homeless camp, we’ll beat up the tramps’; Killing people becomes okay ‘I’m a hater of black people so it’s legal to kill them’. Etc. In Roosh’s concept, women are reduced to walking vaginas that he can rape whenever he wants to. Would he like to live in Saudi Arabia? There is a crime on the rise there: carjacking, chloroforming and gang raping of men, by ‘straight’ men. The victims are taken to hospital and their injuries are treated, but after that the whole thing is covered up by the authorities. As the victims tend to be foreigners, they are put on a plane home (basically deported) after being told to keep quiet. Forced marriage, or banning divorce, are institutionalised forms of rape. Presumably Roosh did not develop from some nasty bacteria in a Petri dish; presumably he has or had a mother! Would he like rape done to her? To his sister, aunt, grandmother, daughter? Would that be alright? If it wouldn’t, then how is it acceptable to rape somebody else? Under ‘freedom of speech’, he should walk into a women’s baseball team (or Israeli army women-only Krav Maga class? or lesbian kickboxing club? or the finals of the women’s world championships of MMA/UFC/cagefighting?? /Insert preferred alternative setting here) And interrupt proceedings, to deliver a lecture outlining why a) he wants all good little women back in their box and the kitchen/bed, and b) it is a wonderful idea to legalise rape. If any of him was left at the end, there would surely be a woman tank-driver somewhere to drive backwards and forwards over the remains. Moron. (And that was being polite to him. And pretty rude to actual morons…) (FYI, I’m a man. Who believes in every gender being equal.)
I can’t see any comments that have picked up on this but did noone else notice his article said, “I propose that we make the VIOLENT taking of a woman not punishable by law when done off public grounds”. Violent??? Hello??? So, not only does this creature think men should presume to know what women want & accept but also that in forcing sex upon them they should feel free to be violent as well? It’s bad enough raping someone without saying “sure, bust an eye socket or two in the process, don’t worry about causing internal injuries, just do whatever you want as viciously as you want, heck, why not break the ribs and leave them gasping for life – as long as you’ve enjoyed yourself”.
There are just no words capable of describing the level of contempt and revoltion I feel for that soulless narcissist. Yet how wonderful for the women of Denmark that he has done them a great favour in telling other hideous creatures like him not to bother them (Don’t bang Denmark) by calling them androgenous & unfeminine. No, they’re probably just way too smart to fall into his terrifying trap.
Vez, I wondered the same thing now, coming back to that “violent” bit. Yeah, it’s creepy that he thinks there are circumstances in which the “violent taking” of a woman should be legal. And of course, that includes his own narrow definition of “violent”, as well as the broader one that ALL unwanted sexual contact is a violence.
Welcome aboard, BTW!
Holy shit, something survived, there’s this thing called text breaks. All I can say I’m pretty sure you shouldn’t speculate whether someone has been raped or not.
Ok, fair enough the scenario he is talking about is true, it happens, and the ghetto thing is very correct we would blame ourselves instead of the kids who robbed us. Now go and ask the police how many or the ratio of rape cases involving drink, you might just be surprised…… I also agree that many women have failed to report rape but then ask the question, out of how many reported cases has there been a conviction? This male person I can’t say he is a man, he is an animal , a thing, he is very mislead if he thinks the problem isn’t men….Why did he rape this girl? He was out looking for an opportunity just like most rapists.
Ha!
Roosh isn’t pro violence, he’s a pussy whipped softie!
He worships women!
Check out the video
“roosh v: pussy whipped terrorist” on youtube.
Nah…At the end of the day you’re still taking the choice away from someone vulnerable and weaker than you. So once this PERSON says no one should respect he or she’s decision. This isn’t THE PURGE. This is real life and living beings we’re talking about. While this idea, if ever put into action, would scare the living shit out of females, would still leave so many vulnerable as prey by horrible men. Men who’s only desire were to get the victim behind enemy lines. Never would a MAN allow this in existence EVER. I would die for this to not happen. [Drops Mic] [Kisses Wife]
Please link directly to it. Roosh V.’s proposal to make rape legal is the most brilliant social satire since Jonathan Swift’s “A Modest Proposal”. It also restores responsibility where it belongs, back to women.
Ah, the good old “stop x from happening by redefining X so that whilst X still happens TECHNICALLY under the new definition it doesn’t happen so you can claim to have stopped it” ruse…
And by good, I mean that other thing. Oh yeah, evil…
Where is my f**king message? I spent a half hour on it and it disappeared!
Roosh’s websites are 100% CLICKBAIT, you fools! The more attention you give him, the more $$$$ it makes for him. Why not buy his books, too?