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#gamergate a voice for men anti-Semitism antifeminism antifeminist women crackpottery Dean Esmay entitled babies I know you are but what am I irony alert lying liars misogyny MRA paul elam post contains sarcasm Suzanne McCarley

The Most A-Voice-for-Menny A Voice for Men Thread Ever

Actual "meme" designed by AVFM's Attila Vinczer
Actual “meme” designed by AVFM’s Attila Vinczer

Oh, people. I would really like to take a little vacation from all the A Voice for Men posts, but as it turns out I have found the most A-Voice-for-Menny AVFM thread ever, and I must share it with you.

Ok, so a couple of days ago, AVFM’s Dear Leader Paul Elam posted an uncharacteristically brief video titled “A 41 second lesson for Adam Serwer and the mainstream media.” It consisted of a 41-second snippet of Elam’s phone interview with Buzzfeed’s Adam Serwer, one of the authors of that scathing expose of Elam, in which Elam boasts to Serwer about how much traffic AVFM gets every time there is a news article reporting what an utterly terrible person he is. (I’m loosely paraphrasing here; as far as I can tell, Elam is not actually aware he is a terrible person.)

A few of the AVFM regulars sprinkled some comments below Elam’s offering when he put it up on AVFM, and there are some utter gems amongst them, demonstrating some of the ways that AVFMers try to magically stave off the collective realization that the reason virtually every real journalist who has ever written about them thinks they’re terrible is that they are indeed terrible.

One commenter gamely repeated a familiar truism that is not actually true:

 crydiego • 13 hours ago  I'm sure there is much more yellow journalism to come and it will come from many different sources but say the same thing. All publicity is good publicity if you want to get a message out.Then a self-described Man Going His Own Way suggested that Serwer is not a real man at all:

 MGTOW-man • a day ago  Serwer, if it wasn't for the empty kind of female admiration, he wouldn't be able to find any worth in himself. Poor thing; Thinks he is a 'real' man but mysteriously, all of his maleness goes to waste unless he subscribes to vacuous pandering and pampering. The boys really have them a pillar of strength to emulate, huh?AVFM’s “Activism Director” then stepped up with a colorful comment that, among other things, cleverly transformed “Serwer” into “Sewer”:

 Attila_L_Vinczer Mod • a day ago  Adam Serwer jumps on the axe-grinding bandwagon. Who will he swing at next? More importantly, why? Will he be honest or continue the dishonest path of a conniving yellow-belly journalist. Many unknowns, but one thing is for sure, this was Sewer reporting.

Vinczer was evidently so proud of the phrase “axe-grinding bandwagon” that he decided to paste it, and some further thoughts on the subject, over an old cheesecake picture of a woman grinding an axe. (See above.) Unfortunately, she is not actually seated upon a bandwagon, so I cannot award Mr. Vinczer full credit for his efforts here.

But my favorite comment of the bunch came from AVFM’s “managing editor” and “director of operations” and “possible buyer of fake Twitter followers,” Dean Esmay.

 Dean Esmay Mod • 2 days ago  So who does Adam Serwer hate more, Jews or women? I still can't figure it out.I can see that some of you are a little baffled, possibly because Serwer, who is both Jewish and a feminist, has never given any indication that he hates either Jews or women.

But Esmay, like many in the Men’s Rights community, seems to be fond of an argumentative trope that most of us outgrow in childhood: the old “I know you are but what am I?” ruse.

If you call an MRA a sexist, chances are good that he (or in some cases she) will call YOU a sexist — because, say, your insistence that rapists should be vigorously prosecuted is said to somehow infantalize women.

Or something like that; the details aren’t any more important to the MRAs making these accusations than they were to your jerky sibling when you were both kids. What’s important is that this little rhetorical maneuver puts you on the defensive.

But if AVFMers don’t have any good reason to say that Serwer hates Jews and/or women, they have come up with an excuse:  Buzzfeed chose to illustrate Serwer and Katie Baker’s piece on Elam with a caricature of Elam modeled after a famous poster of Rosie the Riveter.

And so, apparently because the caricature of Elam was mildly unflattering and slightly exaggerated the size of his nose, the great minds at AVFM decided that it was equivalent to the viciously anti-Semitic caricatures of Jews featured in Nazi propaganda. And also somehow demeaning to women. It doesn’t make much sense to me.

Here’s how one AVFM fan tried to explain the accusation on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/tigerclaud/status/563888703026634752

tiger1tiger2Oddly, I don’t recall Esmay, a fervent supporter of #GamerGate, ever taking fellow #GamerGaters to task for literally repurposing neo-Nazi propaganda in their attacks on Anita Sarkeesian.

The “I know you are but what am I” attack can be confusing even to MRAs. Pity poor Suzy McCarley, AVFM’s “assistant managing editor” and head comment moderator, who, in her response to Esmay’s question, tried to attack Serwer as an anti-Semite who’s simultaneously sexist towards both women and men.

 driversuz Mod Dean Esmay • a day ago  I'm leaning toward "Jews," because so many of them are men. Heaven knows Sewer hates men, possibly more than he hates women and Jews.

So Serwer hates Jews more than women, because half of all Jews are women, whom he hates, and the other half are men, whom he also hates, but possibly more than he hates women.

Driversuz, be careful: you might sprain something.

 

 

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Lea
Lea
6 years ago

The pin-up looks like she’s doing the one cheek sneak.

ikanreed
ikanreed
6 years ago

I don’t quite get where they’re getting their charge that he’s an anti-semite. It’s not that they have a terrible excuse, and, like a reasonable person, I disregard it. I don’t even know what their excuse is.

Credens Iustitiam (@SirMcfarlane)

They should stop pushing the accusation that this guy hates Jews as a bad thing. I figure many AVFMers aren’t too fond of them either.

rantmo
6 years ago

I hate to “well, actually” something at nitpicky as this; but the poster from the Buzzfeed article is “We Can Do It” not “Rosie The Riveter.” It’s a common misconception but they are different images entirely. It doesn’t invalidate anything or forgive the awfulness of the AVFM humanoids, but Rosie deserves to shine on her own.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Oh dear, I see Attila the Witless Hun is projecting his own ignorance of feminism onto feminists.

“I know you are, but what am I?”, indeed.

Dreadnought
Dreadnought
6 years ago

“And so, apparently because the caricature of Elam was mildly unflattering and slightly exaggerated the size of his nose, the great minds at AVFM decided that it was equivalent to the viciously anti-Semitic caricatures of Jews featured in Nazi propaganda.”

Is that really how they came to the conclusion that Serwer was anti-semetic? I’m just so baffled (although I know I shouldn’t be), if I recall correctly Serwer never once mentioned anything about Jews in his piece, nor did any of the images in the article even come close to referencing the Jewish people or religion.

(Also I’ve just gotten around to reading the welcome page to which I must say: Hello, I am Dreadnought!)

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
6 years ago

So many Jews are men! Oh, lol.

The MRA / TRP ideology is a tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing (other than their rageful idiocy).

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

I saw so much stupidity from MRAs last week that I think I need a strong drink every night THIS week to recover. The comments on the BuzzFeed article, AVFMs responses, that Telegraph article, Mike Buchanan, WTF Price, it goes on. My head hurts from facepalming so much.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Once again the manosphere proves it’s identical to the political right. In the US anyway, the right loves to call the left anti Semitic anytime one of us isn’t clamoring to bomb a country full of Muslims.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Howdy, Dreadnought! Pull up a hard chair, a box of bonbons, and some scented fucking candles, you’re in for a treat!

And yeah, having seen my share of Jewish noses (some on the faces of my very good friends, and my, what diversity of noses there is!), I’d say the nose on the cartoon-Paulie doesn’t look at all Jewish. More equine, actually. (Which is a terrible affront to horses!)

I’m surprised none of them have latched onto the starey, scary eyes of cartoon-Paulie, too. ‘Course, those can’t compare with the glassy glare of the originals…

Anne Mette
Anne Mette
6 years ago

AVfM might get more traffic every time PE makes a fool of himself. Good. It vaccinates an increasing number of people against his and his buddies’ BS…

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

@Anne Mette I know right. Nothing is as effective as reading their tripe with your own eyes. It’s why David pretty much quotes them ad verbatim and that’s all he needs to do.

freemage
6 years ago

Okay, wait, wait….

I’m going to smack my head repeatedly for a moment so I can get into the mindset of an MRA….

Okay, now I’m looking at the image that has their tailfeathers in a kerfuffle.

Now, the claim is that the Elam illustration is typical of WWII era pictures of women and Jews, and ergo somehow reveals a hidden hatred of both.

But while the allegedly similar Jewish portrayals were, indeed, anti-Semitic, the more definitively imitated picture of Rosie the Riveter is, if anything, an early feminist icon. So the notion that a feminist would use such imagery to tie a connection between Elam and the early feminist movement is… well, painfully stupid.

Dreadnought
Dreadnought
6 years ago

Hi Bina! Thanks for the welcome 🙂

Reading through this blog has been a real treat, well actually, it’s been more of a shock. I’ve always known that the Men’s Rights movement was a reactionary reply to feminism, but for all this harassment and bigotry to be occurring from the movement is something I would have never expected.

Dodom
Dodom
6 years ago

I’m impressed by that meme actually, they picked a font colour that is fully legible and blends in the background, and the jpg artifacts aren’t disfiguring. One of them KNOWS HOW TO USE IMAGE SOFTWARE!!! I’m impressed now!

Elektra Kenway
6 years ago

So, in between Serwers’ interview, the only thing Elam cared about was traffic? Really?

I remember a pro-MRA article written by Esmay (I think it was on The Huffington Post, though I’m not sure) in which he stated that he works at a women’s refugee in the UK. I was apalled. Is he still there?

I need to watch some kitty pictures to regain a good mood.

WatermelonSugar
WatermelonSugar
6 years ago

The pin-up looks like she’s doing the one cheek sneak.

Oh, Lea. I laughed so hard. So. Hard. So so so hard is how I laughed.

Please enjoy this invisable Winner of Interwebs-Induced Laughter award. You are very much deserving of it.

davidknewton
davidknewton
6 years ago

They have set a pretty low bar 🙂 If these pictures didn’t come straight from the AVFM site, I would be convinced that they were put together by people who were against them and who wanted to make AVFM look as artless and uncreative as possible.

I have… one issue with this article, and that’s referring to him as “Dear Leader” – this is something that right-wing idiots do when they talk about anyone in power that they slightly disagree with. Am I alone in thinking this is something we don’t want to mimic?

Film Runner
6 years ago

Have these people ever made a meme with an image of a woman they didn’t want to have sex with?

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Shorter AFVM: “Let’s all make sensationalist, unfounded, crude accusations about that yellow journalist!”

Thinks he is a ‘real’ man but mysteriously, all of his maleness goes to waste

Wasted maleness? NOOOOOO

The good news is, with an efficient graydude recycling system, up to 90% of maleness can be recovered before it is lost to the soil.

Spindrift
Spindrift
6 years ago

@Film Runner

I’m pretty sure they’ve probably produced some memes implying that feminists are all fat and that that somehow makes them repulsive. But they do certainly seem to have a thing for sexualised imagery in their memes.

ikanreed
ikanreed
6 years ago

I’m getting that it was the Rosie the Riveter image that they concluded was anti-semitic?

These are the densest idiots on the planet.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Wasted maleness? NOOOOOO

LIQUID FUCKING GOLD! DOWN THE FUCKING DRAIN! OH NOOOOOOOOES…

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

We have hardly had any snow in the last two months. So of course it decides to do so while on my way to my job interview. Nothing like running a bit late and hardly being able to see to give me a confidence boost!

Plus I have menstrual cramps. Gah!

WatermelonSugar
WatermelonSugar
6 years ago

Hmm. I sort of like giving Elam silly titles. But maybe “dear leader” isn’t the best one to use. If I can come up with silly titles are cleverer than the ones the right-wingers use would that help?

I have some suggestions!

-Senior Correspondence Misinterpreter
-Grand High Fabricator of Assfacts
-Cowardly Leader
-Figure(dick)head of the Human Men’s Human Rights Human Movement
-Two-time Worst Father Ever Nominee
-Champion Marriage Failure
-World-Renowned Reality Distorter
-Noted Inactive Activist
-Supreme Bad Choice Maker
-Successful Fund-Raiser and -Stealer
-Winner of the Most Ironically Fitting Last Name When Spelled Backward
-Super Awesome Self- and Movement-Embarrassing Quote Generator

Just some suggestions!

WatermelonSugar
WatermelonSugar
6 years ago

Also, in regard to the Buzzfeed illustration, the first thing I thought when I saw it was, “Daaaaayum, did they make Paul’s nose look like a penis.”

I am really surprised they went with the anti-Semitic tie (especially since Serwer is Jewish and since so many are GG supporters). They should have run with the “They made his nose phallic, and demonized masculinity! Misandry!”

I’ll just chalk it up to these guys having little understanding of art and little ability to interpret it.

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

As someone with an interest in Communist Russia history, I partly feel tempted to refer to him as Comrade Elam but even the Soviets had better ideas about gender equality than Paulie does. In Russia anyway. In Romania…Ceausescu ordered an almost absolute ban on abortion and birth control (he freaked out about low birth rates) and the results were disastrous. So many women died from botched backstreet jobs. So many children were orphaned and put into gruesome institutions. I want to take this piece of history and wave it in front of the GOP saying “THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU GET YOUR WAY.”

Spindrift
Spindrift
6 years ago

@Bina “LIQUID FUCKING GOLD! DOWN THE FUCKING DRAIN! OH NOOOOOOOOES…”

Isn’t that where they normally put it, to prevent spermjacking?

Film Runner
6 years ago

I’m pretty sure they’ve probably produced some memes implying that feminists are all fat and that that somehow makes them repulsive. But they do certainly seem to have a thing for sexualised imagery in their memes.

Is this ‘I’m pretty sure’ in the sense that you’ve seen such memes, or in the sense that you haven’t but assume they exist. If it’s the latter, I’m starting to doubt it. Also if you’re looking for a Paul Elam title, I would suggest ‘Complete Idiot’.

sunnysombrera
6 years ago

On the topic of memes, I found this one on Janet Bloomfield’s blog and I don’t think it says what she thinks it does. Or wants it to.
comment image

grumpycatisagirl
grumpycatisagirl
6 years ago

LOL at that meme! Really?

AcidTrial
AcidTrial
6 years ago

Two things:
1. I’m disappointed in the legibilitiy of Vinczer’s meme. He can do better … by which I mean I expect worse from AVFM.
2. I can’t be the only one who reads the phrase, “all of his maleness goes to waste”, and starts thinking of “Every Sperm Is Sacred”.

quantumscale
6 years ago

Personally, I like “Grand Pooh-brah”

Spindrift
Spindrift
6 years ago

Feels like I’ve seen such memes, Film Runner, but I’m not sure where, so could be a different bag of misogynists entirely.

As for silly titles, how about “lord high laxative of the men’s human rights bowel movement”

Subtract Hominem, the Renegade Misandroid
Subtract Hominem, the Renegade Misandroid
6 years ago

Of course Adam Serwer is a misogynist. I mean, he even made a drawing of Paul freakin’ Elam! How much more woman-hatin’ can one person upload to the internet than that?

Anne Mette
Anne Mette
6 years ago

@ Elektra: Esmay is still there….
Idea for title to a certain individual: “Leading clown”….

WatermelonSugar
WatermelonSugar
6 years ago

I am fat, healthy and fine as helllllll. I break MRA’s feminist-are-fat-unhealthy-uggos rule.

Sorry, not sorry, boys!

*prances*

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

AQctually, “Dear Leader” would be perfect if the right-wingers hadn’t ruined it by using it on Obama.

Ivy Shoots (@IvyShoots)

How about “Fearless Leader,” like Boris and Natasha’s boss?

Ivy Shoots (@IvyShoots)

…fearless of everything but diarrhea medicine, that is.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Re: titles, how about Puke Puke Puke Puke of Hurl (sung in a deep doo-wop voice)?

“Professor of Doxxology”. “Mooch Padre”. “Supreme Freeloading Grift-Emperor of Lower Spongitania”.

(Apropos of nothing, Idi Amin had some hilarious titles, including “Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular” and “Uncrowned King of Scotland”.)

Re: Rosie, since when did anti-Semitic propagandists depict Jews as robust and muscular, rather than weak, deformed, and degenerate? These guys are too stupid to even bigot right. They’re just trying to throw the same charges back at their detractors, hoping they’ll stick. None of them have the slightest idea of what words mean. They act as if “anti-Semitic” is a mysterious hand grenade that landed on them from out of the sky. It means something bad… not sure what…but it’s bad so it must belong in the enemy camp…HURL IT BACK QUICK!

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
6 years ago

Well TigerClaud, when did you stop [reprehensible crime of your choice here]?

Buttercup Q. Skullpants

Yes, I’m sure that tweet from “Olivia” is 100% real. Women refer to men as “dimes” all the time!

Mwa
Mwa
6 years ago

What I like most about that meme is that the phrase “Most have no clue why” actually is the reason why, and we are very aware of it.

Falconer
6 years ago

It’s been a long time since I saw Thelma & Louise but I seem to recall they don’t actually get away.

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
6 years ago

Also, concerning Paul-as-We-Can-Do-It being “proof” of antisemitism and misogyny,why don’t we hurl their own reply of “if you see it as antisemitic and sexist, that means YOU’RE the antisemitic, sexist one!” back at them?

samantha
6 years ago

I want to take this piece of history and wave it in front of the GOP saying “THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF YOU GET YOUR WAY.”

@sunnysombrera – Actually, it is my belief that that is EXACTLY what they want! After all, what better way to punish evil women when they even THINK about having control over our own lives? I remember, back in the ’50’s and ’60’s, when newspapers had lots of stories of women who died in agony, often leaving many children behind.

No, these horrid excuses want to know that we are suffering. It is one of the things that makes life liveable for them. It is very much like the uber-wealthy, who need to know that most people are varying degrees of poor. It makes them feel superior and real.

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