For those coming here from the excellent Buzzfeed article on Paul Elam, here are some posts of mine that will give you an even fuller picture of this not only sleazy but dangerous man and the little army of fanatical assholes he has assembled to pester and often outright harass (mostly) women online.
Start here:
Paul Elam of A Voice for Men: In His Own Words
Aside from some of the information Buzzfeed found out about him, nothing is more damning to Elam than his own words.
Here are some posts on Elam’s peculiar approach to “activism,” which generally involves harassing individual women.
7 Tactics of Highly Effective Harassers: How A Voice for Men’s Internet Hate Machine works
Elam falsely accuses a random woman of trashing applications from white men while working for a college admissions office.
Elam Launches a Hate Campaign Against a College Student for Attending a Demonstration and Making Twitter Jokes
Paul Elam, you’re no MLK: A Voice for Men offers a $100 bounty for a clear photo of its latest feminist foe
Here’s a post on the phony “offenders registry” Elam and company put up in order to demonize feminists and other women they don’t like by posting unflattering profiles of them alongside actual female murderers and sex offenders.
Register-Her was a Fake “Offenders Registry” Run By Misogynists, Designed to Vilify and Intimidate Women
And here are a couple of posts on AVFM’s attempt to co-opt the name and the reputation of the White Ribbon anti-domestic violence campaign:
A Voice for Men has set up a phony White Ribbon website to coopt the international anti-violence campaign of that name — and raise some money using the name.
Some posts that quote Elam’s perverse justifications for violence against women:
Paul Elam: “If a woman five feet tall and 110 pounds soaking wet hits me, I am going to hit her back.”
She deserved the ass-kicking of a lifetime: Elam justifies violence against women in a disturbing short story
Paul Elam, you’re no Jonathan Swift
And then there was this:
Paul Elam, alleged human rights champion, tells me to kill myself
And a few, er, lighter reads on the man:
Elam to A Voice for Men conference goers: Don’t say terrible things about women in public, because someone might hear you
A Voice for Men’s Paul Elam and Dean Esmay explain the proper slurs to use for “nasty women.”
Elam: “This world deserves a jerk on the collar and a slap across the face and the flying spittle of rage.”
Elam on “stupid lying whores,” Rebecca Watson, and how he never claims to be a victim even though he totally is one.
(This last one is about a post he wrote attacking Skepchick founder Watson in which he used the word “whore” literally two dozen times.)
And there are more in the archives if you want to search for them.
I guess I kind of write about him a lot, huh?
Well, for better or worse, he’s the most prominent and influential Men’s Rights Activist out there. For now.
Isn’t Christopher the one who actually put the real name of his little boy on this site? Super responsible parenting, dude.
The reason White Ribbon is dishonest is, the ‘awareness’ they attempt to raise is awareness of absurdly inaccurate statistics and they render no services whatsoever.
Here are over two hundred scientific studies showing that domestic violence is equally perpetrated by women as it is men. However, that is extremely different than the picture painted by white ribbon.
According to their own financial statements, most of the money goes to the rich white men (and some rich white women) who run it.
Feel free to read this and get a sense of how deeply this fraud runs http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-lies-feminism/white-ribbon-australia-fraud-exposed/
or…just make fun of me and further solidify my certainty that you don’t have any reasonable arguments and are surprisingly lacking in maturity.
And yes, I did get some facts wrong about Boudica. Minor facts that were totally irrelevant to the larger point I was trying to make (Which is that the history of gender in europe is radically different than the history of gender in the middle east).
That those factual errors are all you all seem to remember or talk about when it comes to me, and that even now, it is what you continue to dwell on suggests that either: You failed to understand my larger point, have no actual response to my larger point, or are simply petty and mean spirited.
P.s.
I’m kind of flattered that you think I am copy and posting from my blog! I spend a lot of time and care in crafting my blog posts, while when I post here, it is off the cuff, written fast and rarely proof read. So, that my off the cuff comments appear to you as if they have been given the time and attention I would give to a blog post is flattering!
No, I don’t have a child, that must be a different guy.
That is actually fairly interesting about Elam’s last name being Male Backwards, it had never occurred to me. It had also never occurred to me, until you folks pointed it out, that it is kind of interesting how my last name is Allman and I am now an Mra.
I do not consider myself an MGTOW (men going their own way). In my experience, those are generally homosexual men who choose to not interact with women. (obviously some exception exist and some are straight). I have no problem with that, but it is not for me. I am in a happy, committed relationship with a female and actually have more female friends than male friends.
And, I kind of said this before, but I suppose it is worth repeating: When you folks call me a troll, talk about spraying me with water or say things like:
“Christopher, we are totally happy to see you GYOW. Please. Seriously. Please GYOW.”
I hear: I don’t like what you are saying because it goes against my pre conceived beliefs, but I don’t have an actual argument against you, so I will just call names, belittle and make fun.
When that happens, it strengthens the resolve of my beliefs and (I am hoping) helps convince some of those observing that you are all on the wrong side of history and have no good arguments or defenses, so must resort to mockery.
In fact, it was reading the comment section of an article about Mras that first got me interested in the movement. It was a piece on Cracked about how the Men’s Rights Movement is a ‘hate group’
In the comments below, I saw a bunch of reasonable, thoughtful men and women defending the movement. They were making rational, fair-minded points backed by evidence and reason. In response to them, I saw a bunch of…young, slightly naive seeming people calling names and attacking. (I apologize if that comment about being young and naive feels like an insult. i do not mean it that way, but do not know how else to phrase it)
I found myself thinking ‘if this is the best feminism has, I don’t want to be part of it. I want to be on the side that is reasonable and thoughtful.
So, I comment here, partly I hopes of attracting other fair minded folks like myself who are mostly likely just observing. Those of you who mock and belittle me…it would be cool if I could convince one of you too, but most seem too set in their ways to consider the possibility of being wrong…But who knows, some of the most outspoken critics can sometimes be some of the most outspoken allies.
Besides, If my thoughtful, well reasoned (but not always accurate or correct) posts are considered ‘trolling’, then I’m more than happy to be a troll!
Also, one last thing before I go. I notice on the side bar the tag ‘oppressed men’. Mra’s don’t teach that men are oppressed, but rather women aren’t and oppression does not happen upon gender lines. Oppression primarily happens based on class and to a slightly lesser extent, race.
You probably won’t read it, but just in case someone does want to, here are two things I have written on that particular subject http://genderallies.org/2015/01/12/gender-vs-race/
http://genderallies.org/2014/11/07/jane-austen-and-oppression/
Jesus wept, dude, get a better hobby.
Dear Christopher:
BAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA*cough, gasp* AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Oh dearie me. You don’t even know what “mansplaining” is. Here’s a clue: my sister has a masters in medieval European history, yet douchecanoes like you insist on blathering at her about the conditions in medieval Europe, like she doesn’t know it better than them. I see it happen again and again and again.
And way to trot out those same lame ass studies. Nope, no reputable study has ever, EVER demonstrated that there’s parity in abuse between genders. The only ones that do, are the shitty, slimy ones that treat verbal abuse as the same as physical, or that include “fighting back” as physical abuse.
Also, yep, totes gonna take the word of AVFM, the people who are illegally attempting to infringe on the copyright of the White Ribbon campaign and steal their donations.
TL: dr-
Go fuck yourself and your shitty fucking studies and your pathetic attempts at redefining words.
I think Christopher’s big mistake is assuming he has something new to say.
So, are you saying that you would no longer get a coworker fired for saying sexist things? Are you admitting that you are a male supremacist?
By the way, you mansplained the definition of mansplaining to us and got it wrong again! Mansplaining is when a man condescending explains a subject to a woman even though she knows more about the subject.
You are so smug but you continue to get everything wrong. You were wrong about Boudica, you were wrong about the history of women’s shelters, you’re wrong about feminism.
The fact that you couldn’t tell us how our why you were a feminist tells us that much.
In case you didn’t notice, this is a mockery site. If you come in here and act like a buffoon, you will get mocked.
You can’t even articulate a good reason for becoming an MRA except for feminists making you feel like the lackwit you are. What rights do men lack? Face it, you are looking for a reason to justify your misogyny. If we were nice you, it wouldn’t change anything. Either you believe in social justice or you don’t. A handful of members of a marginalized group failing to differ to you shouldn’t change it.
I seriously don’t understand what you’re even doing here.
1) You’ve parroted AVFM’s claim that the original White Ribbon is a scam and the source you’ve linked to for proof is…AVFM. You can’t cite the very people making an accusation as evidence that the accusation is true. Pretty sure there’s a logical fallacy in there somewhere. Try again.
2) “absurdly inaccurate statistics” according to who? Paul Elam? We all know what his stance is on domestic violence and if its women that get abused he’s not exactly indignant.
i don’t understand why mra’s are so proud of the weirdest things. “i am a bold, brash mansplainer!” “i am happy to be a troll!” “i make reasonable arguments that sometimes don’t make sense!” are things that only mra’s would say with a straight and serious expression.
Wait. If oppression doesn’t exist along gender lines, then a men’s rights movement isn’t necessary. If MRAs only believe that oppression happens along class lines, why aren’t they directing their energies towards economic justice? It’s a waste of time to bash feminists because we are not the ones perpetuating income inequality.
Also, Christopher is the only MRA I’ve ever seen who didn’t claim that men are oppressed. He’s not even familiar with his own movement.
He must really have to work hard to be this wrong about everything all the time.
5 consecutive posts? That’s a good way to make me skip what you said entirely and just assume you love the sound of your keyboard.
Huh? No of COURSE i”m not saying I would no longer get a co worker fired for saying sexist things. That is the whole problem with your view of mras. You think if you are an anti feminist you are a misogynist. But, the number of actual misogynists I’ve encountered within the men’s movement is extremely low. If you take their words out of context and twist them around?
Also, if what I’m saying is so old, you should all have quick and good replies, but no one has ever ever provided any. Just mockery and saying ‘you are wrong’but providing no evidence and very poor reasoning (that sometimes I can’t tell if is a joke or not?) The examples above of absurdly poor reasoning that, you think because I am not a feminist it means I automatically reject everything that feminism agrees with. Which is simply not true. And paul, while hyperbolic and aggressive, doesn’t actually believe the shit you think he believes. Did you actually look at the link? I am showing you scientific studies and all of you respond with ‘well, if someone like paul thinks it, it can’t be true’. Which is one of the rare examples of an actually ad hominen fallacy. (that word gets used a lot, but mistakenly).
Look at the evidence and respond from there, not just talking about paul. I don’t give a fuck about paul. Paul could be a serial killer and it wouldn’t mean his views are wrong. There are SO many other people saying these things, making these points that you are all unaware. it is not just paul. That has been my whole fucking point in this whole thread! Whateve ryou think about paul is completely irrelevant. Look at the data and the info. If paul is distracting, look at one of the countless other peole saying the same things. Look at erin pizzey. Look at ann cools etc. etc.
Just like earlier, when I brought up the racist shit that suffragettes said. I wasn’t trying to get you to defend it, that is my whole point! My point is, it doesn’t matter if someone who said something is a shitty human, it doesn’t mean what they said was wrong. Is it wrong that women got the vote because some suffragettes were super racist? no! Of course not! That is my whole point.
The only reason people like Dave Futrelle and Buzzfeed keep harping on Paul Elam is because he is lighting rod. He has done and some some bad shit. But it does not mean he is wrong!!!! Just like women voting wasn’t wrong because suffragettes said some bad shit. Th level of simplistic, black and white thinking here suggests to me that many of you are young, probably under 25? I don’t mean that as an insult, I really don’t. But I understand that you are in this state of ‘good vs bad’ ‘my side vs the other side’. If the bad guys said it, it must be wrong. But mras are not the bad guys! Look at what they are actually fucking saying and look at some other people ebeside paul and judge bitch! Like Erin Pizzey, Like Ann Cools!
Everything Paul Says,that I am saying here, Erin Pizzey and Ann cools agree with. Do you really, truly think that women who opened the first domestic violence shelters for anyone in the entire world are misogynists? These women have done more to help women than literally anyone! WAY more than anyone here. WAY more than dave Futrell and WAY more than any feminist I have ever known. So, when I listen to their talks and lectures and look at how committed they are to men’s rights and the stances that they take, I take them seriously. So, if you are interested in knowing what this movement is ACTUALLY like, insead of these absurd hit pieces about Elam and Judgy bitch that have no purpose other than to make them look bad and crazy, then watch some videos of Erin Pizzey and Ann Cools. They are true heroes to women everywhere, 1000x more than someone like Dave Futrell and quite frankly, every single person on this thread that sits around on their computer, obsessively mocks mras and self righteously pats themselves on the back as if they are doing shit. Seriously, this entire site makes me feel embarrassed that I ever tried to defend Feminism. It is conservative, petty, small minded and immature. And yes, now I am calling names too, but I believe those names are accurate and not meant to insult. They probably WILL insult, and I am sorry, but that is not my intention.
You mean Erin Pizzey, the woman who only considers attempted murder to be abusive behavior? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2074284/Domestic-violence-To-say-emotional-abuse-bad-insults-battered-wife.html and Anne Cools, who is against LGBT rights? http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/373/lega/04eva-e.htm?comm_id=11&Language=E&Parl=37&Ses=3
Christopher Alltroll, we HAVE refuted your points with reason and evidence but you repeatedly ignore it, then accuse us of the same thing while repeating your original point like it hasn’t been debunked already. Erin Pizzey DID NOT open the first battered women’s shelter in the world. The reason the “studies” are flawed are because they consider things like verbal attacks and defensive shoves to be on the same line as sustained physical abuse. We’re so sick of repeating ourselves and you are not the first troll to say all the shit you’ve been saying, not by a long shot.
I for one am really bored with you and I call for a banning.
Liar, liar. You always were one. You spouted the exact same tired bullshit talking points as they ALL do. I deeply doubt you were ever a feminist, because it’s clear to me that you don’t know what the word means, and you don’t even know the first thing about the history of the movement. It goes back a LOT further than you think.
That’s not how it works. Words, they MEAN things. Feminism is not just a name, you know.
Cool story, bro. Too bad I don’t believe you.
Dude, take a hint: WE’VE SEEN ALL YOUR SHIT BEFORE. That’s why your talking points are “tired” and nobody cares to talk back. Nobody cares to have a “debate” with you. This is a site where we mock the stupid asshats who espouse Menz Rightz. This is NOT a “debate” site. Capisce?
Au contraire, mon frère, we understand perfectly what you are trying to say. We’ve already heard it a bazillion times. We are telling you it’s bullshit. Because it IS bullshit. Merely repeating your lies ad nauseam will not make them come true, no matter what Karl Rove may have told you.
And frankly we don’t care about your petty resolve. You can drop the martyr pose; no one here thinks you’re a hero for turning against a movement that never was what you hilariously claim it is. NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR PETTY BOOBOOS.
And if you’re hoping for converts to your phony cause, you won’t find any here.
We’re not saying that something is wrong because Paul Elam believes it. We’re saying he’s not a credible source. If you have a scientific source, post that. Don’t post the AVFM interpretation of that. Elam is not a hard scientist or a social scientist. Nor is he an investigative journalist. Why would we take his word on anything?
And by the way, you used getting your coworker fired for sexist remarks as an example of your feminism. But you said you are no longer a feminist. So, the logical conclusion is that an anti feminist wouldn’t preform a feminist act . If you perform feminist acts, why are you an anti feminist? You seem to be one just because we aren’t deferential to you. That’s just silly.
At this point yelling ad hominem is about the same as Godwinning. Once someone has said it, they’ve lost.
“If you don’t play against me then I win by default!” Has this ever worked to get people to engage with you, or do they tend to just laugh even harder?
His other big mistake is assuming it matters to anyone here if in his head he wins the argument ^_^
I’ve only been commenting for a few days, but I’m also bored with christopher.
Especially as I already read the previous threads he showed up in to make a fool of himself. And he’s not gotten more amusing (though amusement is subjective, so I don’t speak for anyone but me there).
Funny, but the exact same thing could be said about Paul Fucking Elam. And YOU. Because neither of you is doing shit for men or boys who may have been abused. All you’re doing is pulling bullshit out of your arses. And feeding the rage of guys who are already violent and dangerous as is. “Bash a Violent Bitch Month” — does that sound like reasoned debate to YOU? If it does, congratulations…you’re part of the abusers’ lobby! Just like your hero, Paulie.
Also, if feminism is “conservative”, as you claim it is, why is it that all the conservatives I see are actively trying to roll back every gain that women have ever made through FEMINISM? Conservatives oppose divorce, abortion, LGBT rights, and even the right of women to use birth control and pursue higher education and well-paying jobs! And now some of them are even trying to deprive us of the right to VOTE, which feminists fought and died for. Feminism opposes everything conservatives stand for, in short. If you are against feminism, then the conservative here is none other than you. Because you sure as hell are not a socialist.