So the musician who goes by the name Pogo, best known for his magical audiovisual mashups using snippets of old Disney movies, is now declaring that the awful misogynistic nonsense he recently posted on his blog and on YouTube was “somewhat of an experiment for myself,” intended to rile up
the enormous breed of hyenas out there taking gender equality and feminism hostage, and bending it into a social status to validate their feeling that the world owes them everything because of their gender.
As Pogo (real name Nick Bertke) explains it in a new blog post today, his attacks on women were intended to expose these fake feminist “hyenas … as the self contradicting brats they are.” To do this, he says,
I uploaded videos and blog posts to draw this mentality out and see just how much of it plagues my own circles. I mashed together the most radical views I could find about women and feminism on the internet, doing my best to present it as my humble opinion and honest observations.
It wasn’t long before my Twitter, which I haven’t touched in months, was absolutely blazing with “equality seeking, compassionate and understanding people” putting every one of their ideals through the shredder and back again. A few people had excellent things to say, but watching the rest of them was like watching a bunch of vegetarians turn cannibal and tear apart a newborn.
Bertke gives zero examples of this.
Looking through Twitter’s list of “Top Tweets” mentioning Bertke’s now-deleted @PogoMix Twitter account, I didn’t find a lot of cannibals. I saw a bunch of Tweets like this:
https://twitter.com/Andie_Cox/status/560788383861981184
rip @PogoMix
Used to love your mixes a lot. No more. Please look into what feminism actually is, then we'll talk.— Cassie (@dinosaur_mug) January 30, 2015
https://twitter.com/rosstavo/status/560946547085811712
The harshest tweet of the bunch was this one:
https://twitter.com/dearmothica/status/560999015295483905
Looking through some of the rest of the Tweets referencing his account, I found more disappointed fans, a few more people asking if his antifeminist videos were poor attempts at satire, and a number of people (mostly dudes) challenging him to back up the various dubious assertions he’d made in his blog posts and videos.
The most abusive tweet of the bunch was the following one, from a self-described troll — seriously, the word “troll” is in his avatar.
@pogomix im gonna beat you up
— Speedcore Henry after EVO 🙁 (@FilmCritGRINCH) January 30, 2015
There were not a lot of cackling feminist “hyenas” to be found, unless you count this Tweet as a sort of hyena howl:
https://twitter.com/HELLOK1TTY4EVR/status/561006261572222977
There are a couple of obvious problems with Bertke’s claim that the whole thing was an “experiment.” For one thing, as I pointed out in my last post, he’s apparently had misogynistic eruptions before. For another, his “honest views on feminism and gender equality,” as he puts it, are still pretty shitty.
While avoiding overtly misogynistic statements — you know, like claiming that women are basically just children begging for discipline — Bertke’s post today is full of the same sort of ignorant and vaguely infantile attacks on feminism you see on Men’s Rights sites. In addition to calling his feminist opponents “hyenas,” he also suggests that many self-described feminists are “brats pocketing what they think is a ticket to a special club for getting special treatment.”
And in his earlier post Where Feminism Goes Wrong — which he hasn’t taken down, and which he says he stands by — he makes similarly ridiculous claims:
The irony of feminism is that, by focusing largely on one gender, it in inherently supports the segregation of genders and raises a breed of self victimizing gold diggers who think historical injustice to their sex makes them personally deserving of special treatment today.
So, yeah, not buying it. And if Twitter is any indication, there aren’t a lot of other people buying it either.
I guess we’ll have to see what he comes up with next.
EDIT: Reworded the sentemce starting “For another” which wasn’t quite right before.
I’m pretty consistently baffled by folks who show up and think that using misogynistic slang insults on a site that mocks misogyny is a great plan.
I mean, it may be a little harsh to say this bluntly, but what exactly do they expect we’d say?
“Oh, you’re insulting a dude by calling him the slang for ‘traditionally female genitals’ in a way that implies having or being ‘traditionally female genitalia’ is a really negative thing! Great call, my new best friend ever! Have a cookie.”
…also, dick-riding was another very poor choice of words. I don’t think I want to know.
Eh, dick riding is a very crude analog to getting your dick wet — except for the other party involved. Idk how I feel about it since it isn’t really any crasser than the wet dick one we use often enough, and it is usually used such that the dick-haver is the sexual object being used by the person riding him…
So yeah, it’s one of the few slang terms for sex that explicitly says the woman is in charge, albeit in a rather crass manner.
Yeah, I find it’s pretty befuddling too.
I try to give it the benefit of the doubt, though. When I was a kid I am pretty sure I called things I thought were lame ‘gay’ – then someone said, “you know, that’s pretty fucking insulting. Calling things you don’t like gay implies that there’s something inherently wrong with being gay. Is that really what you want to say?” and that was honestly a completely new concept to me. I wasn’t doing it on purpose, I was just using a word without giving it any thought; once someone pointed it out, I was horrified and quit doing that.
So…maybe he’d just never thought about it? And now that someone pointed out how fucked up it is, he’ll stop?
In my experience, most people won’t, because admitting that using that term is wrong would mean admitting to themselves that they personally were being cruel with their words, and most people would rather double down and insist that it’s fine than have that uncomfortable self examination, but…sometimes people cut it out once they know.
That’s usually the way of it with migtoes…”Be nice to us menz or we’ll Go Our Own Way!”
“BYE!”
“migtoes”
When you put it like that it *is* a cute name for a cat (especially if it was “Mr Migtoes” or something)
“Aww, who loves his momma? Mr. Miggytoes loves his momma, yes he does! Does Mr. Miggytoes want a treat? Hmm? He’s such a good boy, yes he is!”
Tiege, look. Stop trying to dig yourself deeper. Just apologize and move on. Don’t go on and on about how guilty you feel, because then it’s not about what you did wrong, it’s about us making you feel bad, and that’s not the right thing to do in this situation. You messed up, now own it instead of bemoaning how guilty you feel about it.
You made a mistake, bruh. Deal with, learn from, and move on from it.
No one cares if your mom used misogynistic language before, nor if you use it in your circle of friends. Women have a lot of internalized misogyny, and we’re all working through it. All we ask is that you don’t use it here. It’s not “self-censorship”, it’s called being polite. Would you say that word around a child?
We can be crass around these parts, but in every social setting, there’s ways to do that without offending.
Seriously, stop. No one’s going to coddle you and reassure you that you’re not a bad person. I don’t know why you’re looking for that here. Just drop it and don’t do it again or bring it up again.
@Tiege
What Bina said. She’s a smart person.
I’d also add that sometime, on your own, think about what those words mean and what they imply. Words mean things, right? And they have power. So just give it some thought. Nobody is telling you what you should or shouldn’t say around your friends and family, but I personally am asking that if you are inclined, think about it, and give some thought to whether you’re on board with what they mean. It’s totally your call.
FWIW, I don’t think you’re a bad person. Criticizing language we’ve taken for granted is an ugly, unpleasant experience.
Relax, Tiege. Just don’t call people pussies outside circles you know its acceptable in and be mindful of ideas like autism = violence or woman hating or whatever else are probably garbage.
Don’t engage in self-flagellation. Don’t try to explain yourself – we already get it. Stop tryibg to engage people on the matter, take what’s helpful, modify your behaviour, throw away the rest.
@mousefarts 8:47 timestampy statement…
Huh, that’s actually a really, really good way of thinking about it. Thanks! I’d be more coherent, but it’s been a long, long week.
@Argenti
I’m having a really hard time putting into words why the language bugged me so, but the best attempt so far is that it really seems to be more of a “I was duped into actively doing something perverse” type feel than a “there was something so good that I really got into it an enjoyed doing it” feel.
Like I don’t think zie was using it in the “this was good way” of would be likely to ever use it in the “I’d totally do/have done that” way, but only in the “this was totally a bad mistake” way.
It might just be the fact that I just don’t really get the whole sex thing and was raised in a very, very non-swearing/inuendo-ing household.
Tiege,
Relax, and you’ll be okay. ParadoxicalIntent, Marinerachel, and Mousefarts have kind of said all the helpful things I can think of way better than I could say them, so…
…yeah, their advice is good. Feel free to take it.
I still occasionally use terms like “bitch”, due to not giving what I wrote or said a second thought – but I generally do my best to try and avoid using those kind of terms. If I need to emphasize something with an insult and want to just be profane about it, I go with “asshole” or “shithead” or “fuckface” or something that doesn’t denote one gender over another.
I’m sure there’s people who’ve tried defending “bitch” because it is a term for female dogs but…when was the last time you even heard it used in that context? A lot of guys seem to have an easier time calling women such but not their pet female dogs.
Zie (sometimes Xie) is gender neutral. Didn’t want to call you dude, because I wasn’t sure if you were a dude.
Goofy pronouns can be goofy.
(Thanks for clarifying, BTW. Will use guy-type pronouns for you, now)
Can we not? Can we please just leave the body parts out of this discussion? Also, the n-word might be another good one for examining why you think it’s cool for it to be casual. Along with the c one, and the b one, and the p one…
You don’t have to stop using them with crowds of friends, but not here.
Also, why are you so determined to make excuses for this guy?
But tossing the word “cunt” around casually, as foul as it is, isn’t what this douchebag is even being criticized for. He’s being criticized for pissing and moaning about the treachery of women, erecting a strawwoman to pelt with rocks. Throwing a few “cunts” around doesn’t help – it’s a misogynous slur – but its his complaints about this horrible caricature of women he’s being taken to task for, not for being insensitive and lazy with language.
Yeah, in some parts if Australia some people use the word “cunt” casually. That’s not what this guy is being criticized for though.
Why he hates women really isn’t relevant, whether you think its developmental or cultural or whatever else. It doesn’t matter why. He does and that’s appalling is all that matters. Nothing makes his hatred of women less bad.
This is the wrong place to seek to help him. This is somewhere people discuss the impact and consequences of his behaviour, which hurts people, not to prioritise the whys and hows and fixing his lady problems for him.
@Tiege:
I’m not an expert but I believe the majority of this comes out of a vicious circle of ‘tradition’.
People are brought up believing that having boobs/a different skin colour/different beliefs makes someone alien to them and worthy of contempt or hate, and in many cases those ‘aliens’ are brought up to believe they deserve that. Seriously if white supremacists ever achieved their goal they’d find some other trait to differentiate on (‘purity’ of lineage or hair colour).
Then they all bring up their children the same way, because that’s what you do.
There’s an experiment with 5 monkeys that covers the ‘why’ of traditions like this, http://johnstepper.com/2013/10/26/the-five-monkeys-experiment-with-a-new-lesson/
The major part of the solution is awareness. Once people are aware of the problem they can begin to understand, once they understand they can begin to correct their own behaviour and help spread awareness. A virtuous circle.
Most people are just misguided and don’t realise what they’re doing is wrong, they just need to understand that and they’ll stop by themselves. Some people are true believers, they need to understand that what they’re doing is unacceptable and they need to stop or there’ll be consequences (legal or cultural).
So I don’t think he can be ‘fixed’.
Even if Tiege isn’t GroundPetrel (though the cycle of “Sticks foot in mouth, apologises in the most self-flagellating way possible, immediately shoves other foot in mouth” seems too similar to be a coincidence), there’s no way he’s here in good faith. The damp sock smell is permeating everything.
That last comment was a little too close to the troll who wanted us to coddle misogynists and give them sex in the British Eliot Rodger thread.
This (just published) article is sort of related to the topic at hand. In any event it’s interesting in its own right:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/02/what-happened-confronted-cruellest-troll-lindy-west
Off-topic, but has anyone ever actually done the five-monkeys experiment? I think it’s a just-so story like the boiled frog.
@ Katz
Sort of, but with actual test results rather than cutey homilies.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/73492989/Stephenson-1966-Cultural-Acquisition-of-a-Specific-Learned-Response-Among-Rhesus-Monkeys
@katz:
Apparently the story is apocryphal, inspired by this study that explores how behaviors are taught and learned in a population of Rhesus monkeys.
Monkeys were put into a cage with an object either alone or with a buddy. When they were alone, a few were conditioned to avoid a particular object with air blasts when they tried to interact with it. Those monkeys, when put with a naive partner, would act to interfere when their partner tried to interact with the same object, even without any air blasts. The partner would then refrain from interacting with the object.
I think the experimenter concluded that Rhesus monkeys picked up behavioral cues from others through body-language and posture (since there weren’t any vocal utterances). More importantly, the whole concept of a group of monkeys picking up suppressive behavior even if the original monkeys were absent wasn’t something explored in that experiment (as far as I can tell).
It started with a background where a group of wild monkeys appeared to have picked up car-avoiding behaviors after a shooting even though none of them had ever been shot at, so maybe that’s what caused the story to mutate? Mixed with other experiments with monkeys in a room with a ladder and bananas?
Ooh, nice ninja Alan!