Categories
antifeminism evil SJWs men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA nonpology yeah that's the ticket

Pogo now says his misogynistic posts were an "experiment." Then he denounces most self-described feminists as "hyenas" and "brats."

Yeah, that's the ticket!
Yeah, that’s the ticket!

So the musician who goes by the name Pogo, best known for his magical audiovisual mashups using snippets of old Disney movies, is now declaring that the awful misogynistic nonsense he recently posted on his blog and on YouTube was “somewhat of an experiment for myself,” intended to rile up

the enormous breed of hyenas out there taking gender equality and feminism hostage, and bending it into a social status to validate their feeling that the world owes them everything because of their gender.

As Pogo (real name Nick Bertke) explains it in a new blog post today, his attacks on women were intended to expose these fake feminist “hyenas … as the self contradicting brats they are.” To do this, he says,

I uploaded videos and blog posts to draw this mentality out and see just how much of it plagues my own circles. I mashed together the most radical views I could find about women and feminism on the internet, doing my best to present it as my humble opinion and honest observations.

It wasn’t long before my Twitter, which I haven’t touched in months, was absolutely blazing with “equality seeking, compassionate and understanding people” putting every one of their ideals through the shredder and back again. A few people had excellent things to say, but watching the rest of them was like watching a bunch of vegetarians turn cannibal and tear apart a newborn.

Bertke gives zero examples of this.

Looking through Twitter’s list of “Top Tweets” mentioning Bertke’s now-deleted @PogoMix Twitter account, I didn’t find a lot of cannibals. I saw a bunch of Tweets like this:

The harshest tweet of the bunch was this one:

https://twitter.com/dearmothica/status/560999015295483905

Looking through some of the rest of the Tweets referencing his account, I found more disappointed fans, a few more people asking if his antifeminist videos were poor attempts at satire, and a number of people (mostly dudes) challenging him to back up the various dubious assertions he’d made in his blog posts and videos.

The most abusive tweet of the bunch was the following one, from a self-described troll — seriously, the word “troll” is in his avatar.

There were not a lot of cackling feminist “hyenas” to be found, unless you count this Tweet as a sort of hyena howl:

https://twitter.com/HELLOK1TTY4EVR/status/561006261572222977

There are a couple of obvious problems with Bertke’s claim that the whole thing was an “experiment.” For one thing, as I pointed out in my last post, he’s apparently had misogynistic eruptions before. For another, his “honest views on feminism and gender equality,” as he puts it, are still pretty shitty.

While avoiding overtly misogynistic statements — you know, like claiming that women are basically just children begging for discipline  — Bertke’s post today is full of the same sort of ignorant and vaguely infantile attacks on feminism you see on Men’s Rights sites. In addition to calling his feminist opponents “hyenas,” he also suggests that many self-described feminists are “brats pocketing what they think is a ticket to a special club for getting special treatment.”

And in his earlier post Where Feminism Goes Wrong — which he hasn’t taken down, and which he says he stands by — he makes similarly ridiculous claims:

The irony of feminism is that, by focusing largely on one gender, it in inherently supports the segregation of genders and raises a breed of self victimizing gold diggers who think historical injustice to their sex makes them personally deserving of special treatment today.

So, yeah, not buying it. And if Twitter is any indication, there aren’t a lot of other people buying it either.

I guess we’ll have to see what he comes up with next.

EDIT: Reworded the sentemce starting “For another” which wasn’t quite right before.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

218 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Mouse Farts
Mouse Farts
6 years ago

@ParadoxicalIntention

Soon they will graduate to bits of fluff and stray butterflies, and then, when the hoomin child has grown tall enough and is trained in the ways of a Furry Warrior, Ernie will finally discover what the hell that thing is dangling from the ceiling fan. It will be a glorious day for catkind.

And on autism – one of my little brothers is on the spectrum, albeit toward the high-functioning end. He is a total sweetheart, and has empathy in spades. He just has a really hard time processing it, and communicating it when he doesn’t always understand what he’s feeling. But he’s a generous, loving boy. I miss him terribly.

ashley
ashley
6 years ago

lol. he writes misogynistic screeds, and then after being caught and widely denounced by his fan base, his explanation for this behaviour is that he is trying to flush out certain people “plaguing his inner circles” and find out who holds these terrible beliefs… but the people he’s trying to draw out with his misogynistic screeds aren’t the people who agree with it, but the people who *don’t*. huh. how exactly did he think this plan was going to redeem him in the eyes of his critics?

Lolly
Lolly
6 years ago

I love his work. His Mighty Boosh mash up is, for a fellow fan like me, tremendously fulfilling. And the Disney ones are wonderful too. I think he’s incredibly talented. And I agree with the comment that art comes from a place deeper than personality, thoughts, opinions… His beautiful work can sit alongside his troubled thoughts.

He seems frustrated about a lot of things – feminism being just one of his bugbears. I’m going to speculate that he’s had some ideals challenged and met obstacles he didn’t expect to meet as he’s grown older, and he’s become quite cynical as a result. I’m guessing as a younger man he wasn’t exceptionally popular (very smart, geniusy people often have a hard time finding their place growing up) and now, as a semi-famous producer, he’s possibly getting attention he didn’t get before, and he may not be good yet at managing it or accepting it – working with it, filtering it, sorting the good from the bad..

I’m not trying to excuse his ideas. I hope he rethinks them as time goes on. I hope he builds connections with people who can help him see positives and goodness around him. i hope he can find some peace and happiness and let some of his anger and frustration go.

N.P.S.
N.P.S.
6 years ago

Wah, waahhh, another weeping asshole who is SO ANGRY that feminism isn’t somehow totally about making life better for men. And of course he thinks human rights is “special treatment”. Fuck this piece of shit and everything about him.

WithAZ
WithAZ
6 years ago

This really reminds me of that Sam Pepper bullshit a couple months back.

“It may look like it’s some dudebro on YouTube being sexist, but oh no it’s really a ‘social experiment’! He’s not really a misogynist, you silly women, it just really looks that way because he’s physically harassing people on the street. Why get outraged when he’s just making a point about the poor mens? Fucking feminazis.”

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

And of course he thinks human rights is “special treatment”

Getting angry when people insult, demean, and dismiss you: just another form of entitlement. Where will these greedy feminists stop? Next they’ll be demanding the right to feel sad in public.

This “social experiment” is an age-old tactic, purposely designed to be a lose-lose situation for the victim. Either remain silent, thus reinforcing the social order and tacitly agreeing that you deserve the insults and abuse, or speak up and be branded difficult, demanding, greedy, and evil.

Whatever triggered this meltdown, Pogo was obviously hoping for confirmation that it’s still 1950 and he’s still king. He didn’t like the answer he got.

mistressoflarry
mistressoflarry
6 years ago

I uploaded videos and blog posts to draw this mentality out and see just how much of it plagues my own circles. I mashed together the most radical views I could find about women and feminism on the internet, doing my best to present it as my humble opinion and honest observations.

Well, if his definition of “fake feminist” is anyone who doesn’t agree with his views on “teh wimminez”, I’d say his “experiment” was a resounding success. Enjoy your newly winnowed circle of friends and fans, you asshat.

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

I really need to cut down on the number of pesky subscribers and commenters.

Lightbulb moment!! I’ll get rid of all the decent people and all the nice people. That’ll improve my life no end. Fewer to bother with, and I don’t have to sort out who’s nasty from who’s nice any more.

Win!

potterchik
potterchik
6 years ago

Shorter Pogo: “I pretended to be a jerk because I am a jerk.”

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

It’s super infantalising to portray autistic people as extremely anxious and worried about how potential social blunders will affect others. That’s a character trait some people have some of whom are autistic. Its not characteristic of autism. People with autism are as complex as those without. As our friend Tiege has learnt, some of them are assholes. Probably about the same proportion as there are assholes amongst people without a developmental disorder DX.

Yes, lack of demonstrated empathy is characteristic of AS. No, it doesn’t apply to bleating about hating women. Yes, some people with AS might hate that women.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Theres no link between the two though.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
6 years ago

@Tiege:

As someone who has the name “Nick” and have been diagnosed with Asperger’s, I do take issue when people who use that to explain why someone acted like an asshole. Honestly? Didn’t even like bringing it up with people, due to the assumptions they’d make. Unfortunately that also meant getting into social situations I couldn’t handle due to others not being aware of it – but I don’t blame that on my Asperger’s, that was just bad decision-making on my part.

When I’ve had meltdowns or overreacted, at no point did I ever say “I got Asperger’s” as an excuse. I apologized and explained that I may’ve been having difficulty with certain personal issues, taking them out on others, but nonetheless acknowledging I was wrong and not thinking clearly. It also bothers me that people assume things like I am incapable of empathy to others, which is untrue because I do – the problem is the feelings that come from it are too much to handle at times. I do get easily stressed out and anxious when put in an environment I am simply not comfortable in.

If you’re familiar with the show Hannibal (yes, the one based on the Thomas Harris books), its version of Will Graham is a perfect example of such. He can be around people, even likes to be, but can be easily overwhelmed in ways that most neurotypical individuals aren’t by similar stimuli in social scenarios. It’s a great example of how fiction can be used to enlighten by deconstructing or subverting stereotypes in such a way.

As far as everything else you stated…I don’t want to make accusations, but it’s been a common experience of mine that people who talk about having “connections” and bringing up rumors and speculation – purely anecdotal – are dishonestly trying to back-pedal and make excuses on behalf of the offending party. Maybe you are being completely sincere and are just trying to give some insight, which is good, but it can be difficult to tell given the kind of trolls this blog has had in the past. It’s an almost constant conversational trope I see on Facebook, where there’s lots of talk about “hearing somewhere” about something and that it must be true yet become defensive when asked for some kind of source of information. Moreso when those same people are dismissive of evidence given by those they argue with, as if fact and opinion are in any way equal to one another.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

And now you’ve moved on to misogynist insults. Oofta.

Mouse Farts
Mouse Farts
6 years ago

Gross, Tiege. Why on earth would you think using “pussy” as an insult here would ever, ever fly? Like, how do you read anything at all on any feminist blog without realizing that that’s fucked?

Gross.

M. the Social Justice Ranger
M. the Social Justice Ranger
6 years ago

… Is this GroundPetrel again?

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Yeah, banging your head against the wall won’t accomplish anything. Just don’t use “pussy” outside the context of cats and you’re golden. I have no desire to see you self-flagellate or be made to feel unworthy or anything. Just don’t call people pussies or associate AS with misogyny or violence or any of that shit.

You’re probably right that this douche’s AS is a negligible factor in how he perceives women. You’ll find associated behaviors with AS but I STRONGLY doubt you’ll find any trend of hatred towards women associated with it. That theory doesn’t hold water.

Mouse Farts
Mouse Farts
6 years ago

Just don’t use “pussy” outside the context of cats and you’re golden.

And even then, if you do use it, you should be aware that just about everyone is going to assume you’re trying to be funny, and I at least will be giving you the “seriously, are you twelve?” side-eye. Not saying you can’t or shouldn’t, just…y’know, sayin’.

My profile picture on a social media site has my cat in it, and I get so many dudes going “you have a beautiful pussy baby” and expecting me to just fall all over myself laughing.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Unless you’re referring to cats, “pussy” is not a good word to just toss out around here. Especially not in reference to cowardice. Which, by the way, is quite uncatly — have you ever seen what cats can do to bears?

Or alligators?

So, yeah.

Mouse Farts
Mouse Farts
6 years ago

Whatever you need, Tiege. Seems a bit silly to me, but you do you.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Well, that was petulant. Are we supposed to feel guilty and beg Tiege to stay?

...
...
6 years ago

In Tiege’s defense every single one of you that jumped onto her, explaining that autism is not an excuse for asshole behavior, didn’t finish reading her comment that stated, “This isn’t an excuse for his behavior though.” Your anger got the better of you, just like what’s happened to Nick.

Tiege, you handled yourself well.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

I’d say “that was different”, but it wasn’t really was it?

But I love how that gator was like “fuck this, it’s not worth it *splash*”

Mouse Farts
Mouse Farts
6 years ago

I could stretch and find a way to pretend this is relevant, but really, I just stumbled on it and laughed so much I literally choked. Scared the bananas out of my cats.

Eli
Eli
6 years ago

Every autism group I’ve been involved in as an adult (online as well as in person) is tainted by the presence of MRA types. It’s hard for me not to associate autism with being an MRA asshole, on some level, because of how sites like the wrong planet one have been completely overrun with MRAs. Then I remember that even in the groups exclusively for women on the spectrum there are similar views that come up, bitter rants about how women are just the goddamn worst because… misogyny is everywhere. There is literally a facebook group made up of people from the various autistic groups who dislike me for being a vocal feminist, and while the group is allegedly just anti-SJW, at least half the posts are about me specifically. Blunder of social blunders, one of the members accidentally added a friend of mine and it didn’t require admin approval so he added me to the group, thinking I would find it humorous. I thought it was funny until I realized there was this entire group of a couple dozen other autistic folks, some of whom I thought were my friends, and half of their posts were literally just about me and trying to dissect things I’d said, screen caps of my tweets, speculating that I’m *secretly* talking about them. They even made a parody account of me, with the last name “Whiteguilt” with my pictures and everything

I’ve definitely got a lot of internalized ableism to work through and it’s hard not to fall into the trap of being like “oh he’s autistic OK yeah I get it now” and that sucks so much because I get so sick of hearing the stereotypes of autistic people while I’m trying to make myself stop repeating them

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Should’ve posted it on the toilet paper and wipes thread! It’d be relevant there!

contrapangloss
6 years ago

I’m pretty consistently baffled by folks who show up and think that using misogynistic slang insults on a site that mocks misogyny is a great plan.

I mean, it may be a little harsh to say this bluntly, but what exactly do they expect we’d say?

“Oh, you’re insulting a dude by calling him the slang for ‘traditionally female genitals’ in a way that implies having or being ‘traditionally female genitalia’ is a really negative thing! Great call, my new best friend ever! Have a cookie.”

…also, dick-riding was another very poor choice of words. I don’t think I want to know.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Eh, dick riding is a very crude analog to getting your dick wet — except for the other party involved. Idk how I feel about it since it isn’t really any crasser than the wet dick one we use often enough, and it is usually used such that the dick-haver is the sexual object being used by the person riding him…

So yeah, it’s one of the few slang terms for sex that explicitly says the woman is in charge, albeit in a rather crass manner.

Mouse Farts
Mouse Farts
6 years ago

Yeah, I find it’s pretty befuddling too.

I try to give it the benefit of the doubt, though. When I was a kid I am pretty sure I called things I thought were lame ‘gay’ – then someone said, “you know, that’s pretty fucking insulting. Calling things you don’t like gay implies that there’s something inherently wrong with being gay. Is that really what you want to say?” and that was honestly a completely new concept to me. I wasn’t doing it on purpose, I was just using a word without giving it any thought; once someone pointed it out, I was horrified and quit doing that.

So…maybe he’d just never thought about it? And now that someone pointed out how fucked up it is, he’ll stop?

In my experience, most people won’t, because admitting that using that term is wrong would mean admitting to themselves that they personally were being cruel with their words, and most people would rather double down and insist that it’s fine than have that uncomfortable self examination, but…sometimes people cut it out once they know.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Well, that was petulant. Are we supposed to feel guilty and beg Tiege to stay?

That’s usually the way of it with migtoes…”Be nice to us menz or we’ll Go Our Own Way!”

“BYE!”

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

“migtoes”

When you put it like that it *is* a cute name for a cat (especially if it was “Mr Migtoes” or something)

Mouse Farts
Mouse Farts
6 years ago

“Aww, who loves his momma? Mr. Miggytoes loves his momma, yes he does! Does Mr. Miggytoes want a treat? Hmm? He’s such a good boy, yes he is!”

ParadoxicalIntention
6 years ago

Tiege, look. Stop trying to dig yourself deeper. Just apologize and move on. Don’t go on and on about how guilty you feel, because then it’s not about what you did wrong, it’s about us making you feel bad, and that’s not the right thing to do in this situation. You messed up, now own it instead of bemoaning how guilty you feel about it.

You made a mistake, bruh. Deal with, learn from, and move on from it.

No one cares if your mom used misogynistic language before, nor if you use it in your circle of friends. Women have a lot of internalized misogyny, and we’re all working through it. All we ask is that you don’t use it here. It’s not “self-censorship”, it’s called being polite. Would you say that word around a child?

We can be crass around these parts, but in every social setting, there’s ways to do that without offending.

Seriously, stop. No one’s going to coddle you and reassure you that you’re not a bad person. I don’t know why you’re looking for that here. Just drop it and don’t do it again or bring it up again.

Mouse Farts
Mouse Farts
6 years ago

@Tiege
What Bina said. She’s a smart person.

I’d also add that sometime, on your own, think about what those words mean and what they imply. Words mean things, right? And they have power. So just give it some thought. Nobody is telling you what you should or shouldn’t say around your friends and family, but I personally am asking that if you are inclined, think about it, and give some thought to whether you’re on board with what they mean. It’s totally your call.

FWIW, I don’t think you’re a bad person. Criticizing language we’ve taken for granted is an ugly, unpleasant experience.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Relax, Tiege. Just don’t call people pussies outside circles you know its acceptable in and be mindful of ideas like autism = violence or woman hating or whatever else are probably garbage.

Don’t engage in self-flagellation. Don’t try to explain yourself – we already get it. Stop tryibg to engage people on the matter, take what’s helpful, modify your behaviour, throw away the rest.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

@mousefarts 8:47 timestampy statement…

Huh, that’s actually a really, really good way of thinking about it. Thanks! I’d be more coherent, but it’s been a long, long week.

@Argenti

I’m having a really hard time putting into words why the language bugged me so, but the best attempt so far is that it really seems to be more of a “I was duped into actively doing something perverse” type feel than a “there was something so good that I really got into it an enjoyed doing it” feel.

Like I don’t think zie was using it in the “this was good way” of would be likely to ever use it in the “I’d totally do/have done that” way, but only in the “this was totally a bad mistake” way.

It might just be the fact that I just don’t really get the whole sex thing and was raised in a very, very non-swearing/inuendo-ing household.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Tiege,

Relax, and you’ll be okay. ParadoxicalIntent, Marinerachel, and Mousefarts have kind of said all the helpful things I can think of way better than I could say them, so…

…yeah, their advice is good. Feel free to take it.

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
6 years ago

I still occasionally use terms like “bitch”, due to not giving what I wrote or said a second thought – but I generally do my best to try and avoid using those kind of terms. If I need to emphasize something with an insult and want to just be profane about it, I go with “asshole” or “shithead” or “fuckface” or something that doesn’t denote one gender over another.

I’m sure there’s people who’ve tried defending “bitch” because it is a term for female dogs but…when was the last time you even heard it used in that context? A lot of guys seem to have an easier time calling women such but not their pet female dogs.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Zie (sometimes Xie) is gender neutral. Didn’t want to call you dude, because I wasn’t sure if you were a dude.

Goofy pronouns can be goofy.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

(Thanks for clarifying, BTW. Will use guy-type pronouns for you, now)

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Can we not? Can we please just leave the body parts out of this discussion? Also, the n-word might be another good one for examining why you think it’s cool for it to be casual. Along with the c one, and the b one, and the p one…

You don’t have to stop using them with crowds of friends, but not here.

Also, why are you so determined to make excuses for this guy?

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

But tossing the word “cunt” around casually, as foul as it is, isn’t what this douchebag is even being criticized for. He’s being criticized for pissing and moaning about the treachery of women, erecting a strawwoman to pelt with rocks. Throwing a few “cunts” around doesn’t help – it’s a misogynous slur – but its his complaints about this horrible caricature of women he’s being taken to task for, not for being insensitive and lazy with language.

Yeah, in some parts if Australia some people use the word “cunt” casually. That’s not what this guy is being criticized for though.

Why he hates women really isn’t relevant, whether you think its developmental or cultural or whatever else. It doesn’t matter why. He does and that’s appalling is all that matters. Nothing makes his hatred of women less bad.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

This is the wrong place to seek to help him. This is somewhere people discuss the impact and consequences of his behaviour, which hurts people, not to prioritise the whys and hows and fixing his lady problems for him.

lith
lith
6 years ago

@Tiege:

I’m not an expert but I believe the majority of this comes out of a vicious circle of ‘tradition’.
People are brought up believing that having boobs/a different skin colour/different beliefs makes someone alien to them and worthy of contempt or hate, and in many cases those ‘aliens’ are brought up to believe they deserve that. Seriously if white supremacists ever achieved their goal they’d find some other trait to differentiate on (‘purity’ of lineage or hair colour).
Then they all bring up their children the same way, because that’s what you do.
There’s an experiment with 5 monkeys that covers the ‘why’ of traditions like this, http://johnstepper.com/2013/10/26/the-five-monkeys-experiment-with-a-new-lesson/

The major part of the solution is awareness. Once people are aware of the problem they can begin to understand, once they understand they can begin to correct their own behaviour and help spread awareness. A virtuous circle.

Most people are just misguided and don’t realise what they’re doing is wrong, they just need to understand that and they’ll stop by themselves. Some people are true believers, they need to understand that what they’re doing is unacceptable and they need to stop or there’ll be consequences (legal or cultural).

So I don’t think he can be ‘fixed’.

M. the Social Justice Ranger
M. the Social Justice Ranger
6 years ago

Even if Tiege isn’t GroundPetrel (though the cycle of “Sticks foot in mouth, apologises in the most self-flagellating way possible, immediately shoves other foot in mouth” seems too similar to be a coincidence), there’s no way he’s here in good faith. The damp sock smell is permeating everything.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

That last comment was a little too close to the troll who wanted us to coddle misogynists and give them sex in the British Eliot Rodger thread.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

This (just published) article is sort of related to the topic at hand. In any event it’s interesting in its own right:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/02/what-happened-confronted-cruellest-troll-lindy-west

katz
6 years ago

Off-topic, but has anyone ever actually done the five-monkeys experiment? I think it’s a just-so story like the boiled frog.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago
kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

@katz:

Apparently the story is apocryphal, inspired by this study that explores how behaviors are taught and learned in a population of Rhesus monkeys.

Monkeys were put into a cage with an object either alone or with a buddy. When they were alone, a few were conditioned to avoid a particular object with air blasts when they tried to interact with it. Those monkeys, when put with a naive partner, would act to interfere when their partner tried to interact with the same object, even without any air blasts. The partner would then refrain from interacting with the object.

I think the experimenter concluded that Rhesus monkeys picked up behavioral cues from others through body-language and posture (since there weren’t any vocal utterances). More importantly, the whole concept of a group of monkeys picking up suppressive behavior even if the original monkeys were absent wasn’t something explored in that experiment (as far as I can tell).

It started with a background where a group of wild monkeys appeared to have picked up car-avoiding behaviors after a shooting even though none of them had ever been shot at, so maybe that’s what caused the story to mutate? Mixed with other experiments with monkeys in a room with a ladder and bananas?

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

Ooh, nice ninja Alan!