[UPDATE 2: Pogo now says his misogynistic posts were an “experiment.” For my take on this, see here.]
[UPDATE: Pogo has taken down several of the blog posts mentioned in this post. I have replaced the links to the vanished posts with links to archived versions.]
So you know that dude Pogo, who makes all those amazingly perky-yet-somehow-also-ethereal music/video mashups using snippets of old Disney movies and the like?
Turns out he’s a bit of a misogynistic dickbag.
Yep. On his Pogomix blog, Nick Bertke (his real name) has been posting a bunch of tiresome and achingly unoriginal rants about feminism and the alleged privileges of women that might as well have been cut and pasted from the Men’s Rights subreddit or A Voice for Men.
In “Why We Should Envy Women” he argues that “[d]espite what all these feminists talk about, women actually have things pretty damn good. Better than men, I would say.”
He presents a little list of ways he thinks women have it better than men; it’s an assortment of MRA clichés, a sort of mashup (yep) of Warren Farrell and Girl Writes What, as filtered through a million crappy blogs.
– You are naturally endowed with a more valuable, sought after and artistically favorable body.
– At the bat of an eye, you can be excused from accountability regardless of the magnitude of your actions.
– At 18, you lose the protective status of the child but retain the protective status of the female. …
– Society excuses you from needing to work and says all you need is a hard working and generous man. …
– You are granted the rights of a democracy without the burdens of military service.
The creepiest item on the list is undoubtedly this one:
– You can give the opposite sex a thrashing when the person deserves it.
That’s right: the guy who created the gorgeous “Alice” and the charmingly catchy “Upular” envies women’s alleged ability to beat up their boyfriends without consequence, apparently wishing he could do the same to women when they “deserve it.”
Seemingly channeling the “red pill wisdom” of the internet’s self-proclaimed masters of “Game,” Bertke goes on to explain that women are basically overgrown children needing the “discipline” of a firm father figure.
I’ve always found that the more I treat a woman like a child, the stronger the relationship, the better the sex and the more often it happens. Discipline, reprimand and complete indifference. I think the feminine woman craves the attributes of a firm father in the man she enters a relationship with. The more I realize it, the more I see modern feminism in a different light – it could well be little more than the collective feminine cry for drama and childlike retaliation.
Sigh. He seems to have turned this rant, or portions of it, into a video. (I could only make it through about 30 seconds before my annoyance got the better of me and I turned it off.) [UPDATE: He’s deleted the video.]
In “5 Things I’ve Learned About The Real World,” Bertke urges his readers to, yep, “take the red pill for a minute,” and offers more, er, insights into women’s alleged desire for “fatherly order.”
A lot of women you meet, feminists in particular, will preach that you are the source of their failures and womanly strife. This won’t stop them from playing powerless, and they’ll insist that you roll up your sleeves and rescue them from their mysterious bonds. The collective female cry for fatherly order requires that you as a man are expected to make the world spin.
As you may have noticed, Bertke’s prose is not quite as elegant as his songs. He can’t even keep his metaphors straight.
In “Where Feminism Goes Wrong,” he informs us that “inequality is a door that swings both ways but feminism by definition and in practice treats it as a one way street.” (Here’s an archived copy of the post in case he takes it down too.)
Yep. Inequality is somehow both a door and a street.
He goes on to declare that:
Feminism is taken prisoner by too many women and re-branded as a self entitling social status posing as a humanitarian ideology. There’s really only two possible explanations for why feminism has become a bait and switch: 1. Feminism is revealing its self to be a camouflaged push for gender supremacy, or 2. Feminists just aren’t doing a very good job of communicating their true cause.
There’s actually a third explanation, more convincing than the first two, which is that Nick Bertke has no fucking clue what he’s talking about.
Misogynistic outbursts are apparently not a new thing for Bertke. Last spring, after erratic behavior on his part led some of his fans to worry that he might be undergoing some sort of breakdown, one Redditor reported that “some fans and friends close to Nick that have stated that he’s done something similar in the past, going on a rude, sometimes misogynistic rant and basically acting like a 12 year old … .”
It’s always disappointing to find out that someone whose work you enjoy and admire is a shitty person. Alas, he’s far from the first talented musician to turn out to be a woman-hating asshole.
Bertke, dude, stick to sampling other people’s words. Your own words are terrible.
H/T — @Metz77 on Twitter, who alerted me to Pogo’s asshattery.
EDIT: Reworded a couple of things.
Eh, maybe? My brain database of useless facts currently coming up short on prison rape stats. Outside prison most male sexual assault victims repeat female perpetuators though. So I guess it’d come down to just how prevalent prison rape is.
This blog post was very helpful: http://echidneofthesnakes.blogspot.se/2014/10/more-men-are-raped-in-us-than-women.html
@ sunnysombrera
“MRAs argue with us”
You know, I wonder about this. I’m new to all this MRA, MGTOW thing but I’ve been doing a bit of exploring of some of the links on this site. As you predicted there’s plenty of MRA rantings about how men will be thrown into some Kafkaesque nightmare of proving their innocence.
What I’m not sure of is whether they actually believe that. The law’s not particularly tricky to understand, and you’d think men who are supposedly so actively concerned with these issues might actually do a bit of research; even just one or two of them.
But they completely misstate what the situation is and constantly re-enforce that error with round after round of comments re-iterating how the law is so biased against them.
But again, are they genuinely (even if erroneously) concerned about this, or do they know it’s bollocks but just use it as an excuse to have a dig at women?
I suppose this goes back to an original query I had as to whether these chaps actually WANT something or whether they just enjoy the hate for its own sake.
@Alan Robertshaw,
I still wonder if they actually believe that they’re being oppressed or if they’re just mad that they can’t oppress women as much as they used to be able to (and that they recognize that that’s all that their hate is). It seems that some do recognize that they’re just enjoying the hate while others seem to have convinced themselves that they have a real, legitimate cause.
Alan, just read enough of it and you’ll understand that the MRAs are all about trying to shit on women’s heads. They do just about nothing positive for men.
I was in a soft prison where rape was not much of a problem — I got catcalls and comments on how pretty I was (I’m not) and what a sexy walk I had, etc. But in bad prisons rape is a serious problem, and for some inmates the choice is between being gang-raped on a regular basis or getting “married” to one inmate (usually a fairly violent one or one who’s high up in a prison gang) who will protect them from others Then you have to decide if it’s rape when someone consents to sex in return for protection. Of course there are probably a lot of women outside of prisons that would qualify as rape victims if you answer that question in the affirmative. I’m not sure how many men are actually raped by women — I don’t think it’s a lot,. but I could be very wrong. It could well be true that more rapes are committed against men than women, because while there are a lot fewer male victims some of them are in fact raped on a very regular basis.
Reliable statistics on rape are very hard to come by for any number of reasons, including the number that go unreported, the number that are classified as “unfounded” (what standard do you use?), and definitional problems, All we really know is that the situation is horrible.
@Alaisvex:: Maybe the reason they keep accusing women who report rapes of just trying to get “coveted” victim is status because they themselves are so anxious to think of themselves (and have others think of them) as victims. Whenever I read their complaints the first word that pops into my mind is “projection.”
@ alaisvex
Yeah, there’s a thing on Cracked.com at the moment about that Gamergate thing and one commentator does come across as genuinely believing that it’s all some feminist conspiracy, but I get the impression that he’s not particularly worldly so maybe he can be forgiven. But for anyone who’s actually got some real world experience (i.e. out of their teens) surely they can’t actually believe all the crap. Presumably they must have actually met some women and know what they have to out up with?
@ genedanielle
Your comments remind me of another (English) legal principle “submission is not consent”, but Is suspect that, unless we were talking about “protection” in the Kray Twins sense (i.e. the ‘protector’ is potentially the perpetrator) it probably wouldn’t count as rape under English law.
he says now that everything he wrote other than Where Feminism Goes Wrong was a social media experiment
@Alan: That’s one of the definitional issues I was talking about that make data collection and comparison difficult.
That’s been happening to me of late, particularly with people I know personally. A comedian friend has gotten into a rivalry with the contributor of a weekly newspaper and it just keeps getting worse; it started out as a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of a stand-up joke specific to my area but is now becoming more of a thing, when said writer decided to write an article on the reaction she got. She’s well-intentioned and she makes legitimate points, even if she took the joke a bit out of context – the reaction to it has really disheartened me.
I mean, there’s this view that comedians are oddly thin-skinned (given many professional ones, hypocritically, tell others to grow thicker skin) and really hostile to less-than-complimentary criticism of any sort…which they’re basically just proving. It’s even more disappointing because they all know better, but have fallen into that trap of mistaking being indiscriminately pissed-off with being righteous. It’s one I’ve fallen into in the past and really try to avoid, being ashamed of myself when it does happen, thus don’t want to see others end up like that.
As far as internet personas like Pogo: I’m done with Ben “Yahtzee” Croshaw. He has, for most of his career as a videogame critic, generally avoided getting into political issues – likely out of choice. It was obvious he had opinions on such, but kept them to himself and generally concentrated on writing about videogames as an entertainment medium. I could respect that.
The problem is that, with GamerGate and the like, he’s basically come out to express his opinion on the issue of sexism in fiction and…he’s a total fucking moron about it. He’s doing the same thing TotalBiscuits does where he insincerely acts so fucking above it all, regularly uses false equivalence to justify shitty behavior, and then makes a bunch of speculation he simply pulled out of his ass in support of the people who think feminists are ruining games (despite the fact they still exist and sell like hotcakes). It’s another depression example of how someone who appears outwardly intelligent isn’t exactly intelligent or even enlightened.
It’s hard to take someone seriously anymore when their argument about sexual objectification of women in games is countered with “but what about those covers for romance novels, with the rippling guys on the cover? Bet the ladies like that! LOL” The fact he has to use romance novels, a genre in literature that is largely made to appeal to a female audience in one of many mediums that are still widely made for and by men, shows how much he misses the fucking point. It’s like arguing comicbooks can’t be sexist ’cause, hey, they have those Hello Kitty and Barbie comics – just ignore most other titles involving superheroes, sci-fi, action, comedy, or drama that are generally hyper-masculine…’cause the guys needs tits and ass on display as much as insanely possible regardless of whether it’s actually necessary (it’s usually not).
@Alan
I think that, like the MRAs with thinking they’re oppressed, some genuinely do believe that clearer consent laws will lead to a 180 on the judicial process. Some people genuinely believe all sorts of rape myths because they haven’t really thought about what they’ve been told (and are now parroting). Or they haven’t really thought about their own ideas because they’re not the brightest bulbs in the box.
Thing is, people who are just mistaken will usually swing into the right mindset if given enough reason and proof that the other side is correct. People who will cling incessantly to their beliefs despite firm evidence of the contrary, well, they’re doing it deliberately. Look at Gamergate. In the face of proof that its a hate movement and certainly not about ethics some people jumped ship fast. Others plugged their fingers in their ears and doubled down on their dirty tactics. They are determined to call themselves heroes and everyone else the oppressors. They will NEVER have an “are we the baddies?” moment if they can help it.
Maybe stubborn rape apologists hate to admit they’re wrong. Maybe they’re trying to avoid a scary thought or cognitive dissonance. Or maybe they’ve got a stake in perpetuating rape myths because it allows THEM to sexually assault with near impunity.
David did write a post (I’ll try to find it) where he stated that he believed the MRM try to keep the lines between sex and rape as blurry as possible so that they can do what they want with a woman sexually with plausible deniability. They want to control women, no doubt. Their cries of oppression are not cries of the truly oppressed but of the privileged having their power taken from them. They perform mental gymnastics to create a new reality for their overblown egos and cling to it because they don’t want to accept that not being able to treat the “inferior sex” as they please, not having all the breaks and all the power and all the control (they’re narcissistic megalomaniacs, basically) is a good thing. They’ve convinced themselves not necessarily of rape myths but definitely that it’s their right to lord it over half the population.
“They will NEVER have an “are we the baddies?” moment if they can help it.”
Ooh, is that a “Mitchell & Webb” reference? 🙂
FUCKING IOS!!!
I had this whole thing typed up, went to paste a thing, and the page refreshed and ate my comment! Long story short, prison data sucks, but making some super sized assumptions from it says two things —
1) more women experience unwanted sexual contact than men, both in and out off prison (in terms of percentage for both, and raw numbers for at least the latter)
2) unless a whole shit ton of employees at male prisons are female, most of said contact is perpetrated by a man. Because yes, when working with data that has forcible rape and “you can’t consent to sex with a guard” under one heading, the prison problem is that bad.
Notes —
1) I was forced to either have nothing but assfax to work with, or lump together any and all forms off unwanted // cannot consent to sexual contact. Which is really obnoxious, cuz no shit sherlock women get groped more, there’s some grade a common sense for you! But the prison data didn’t seperate the forms by gender, so fuck me.
2) I need better data to work with! Which probably means we need better data on wtf happens to prison inmates.
3) I hate this world.
Citations to follow so ios can’t eat this.
Non-prison data — http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_Report2010-a.pdf — page 27 in the pdf
Prison data — http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/svpjri1112.pdf — table 7, page 17
Summary? I hate everything. Strangely, female inmates had a significantly higher risk of inmate-on-inmate unwanted sexual contact than male inmates did, I’m not sure what to make of that. By definition though those are female perpetrators (number wise though it doesn’t come near the other data sets)
But the world likes you.
Not as much as it likes you 😛 (hi Fibi!!)
Everleigh Way, welcome! And thanks for the update. I just did a new post on Pogo’s new claims; I can give you credit in the post for pointing me to them if you’d like,
…He said that in the Philippines??
NickNameNick
Really? Ugh. I actually kind of liked his opinions. I didn’t agree with him 100% of the time, but he’s good at calling out basic shit in games when he sees it. It really kind of saddens me that he’d go this route.
I have this issue right now where it’s like “I really like Yahtzee’s and TotalBiscuit’s opinions on games in a very technical sense, but they’re really sexist, and I can’t stand that”, and it’s like I don’t know what to really do about it?
I expected better of them, I suppose, and now that I’m so severely disappointed, I don’t know how to rectify it. I still like their content, but that “they’re really sexist though” will always be at the back of my mind.
I should probably back up my statements, so I’ll post three entries within his “Extra Punctuation” segments on The Escapist (who, honestly, I’m hating more and more – with Robert Chipman being the only reason I go there now plus Jim Sterling was awesome enough to leave and just start a YouTube channel) to provide why I just can’t stand him anymore:
http://www.donotlink.com/dezn (when I started to take issue with his views)
http://www.donotlink.com/dezo (when I got further annoyed by back-pedaling and further missing the point of what sexual objectification is)
http://www.donotlink.com/dezp (when I said, “that’s it – I’m fuckin’ done!”)
I think there’s a limit to how much of it you can take, before you can’t enjoy a person’s work anymore. A lot of people fault those who can’t separate the Art from the artist – but I think there’s plenty of reasons to not support someone’s work, if you don’t like it. As it is related to entertainment, it should be expected that not everyone is going to like the same thing and sometimes it just purely subjective case of personal taste.
When it comes to Gary Oldman, I’m able to get past his inane point of view on politics because it doesn’t really effect his talents as an actor. Now, with Frank Miller, I can’t get past his political views (which are just as bad as Oldman’s) and it effects my reading of his work – as it becomes apparent a lot of his work was informed by that. Well, that and it doesn’t help he’s just gotten worse as a writer and artist the more racist he got.
I’m Jewish, but I still adore Lovecraft’s brand of horror despite having a history of being incredibly anti-Semitic. What helps is not only is he long deceased and came from period in time where those views (even intense as his own were) still considered acceptable among most white individuals. Sometimes that xenophobia makes its way into his work but it is never obnoxious or pronounced enough to the point where it takes me out of the story either.
Regarding Art vs Artist — I truly think it is up to the individual person to decide what their boundaries are. Every person is different, and every person reacts to particular scenarios differently. And the way people react changes over time as the person changes.
For example, I’m so disgusted and annoyed with so many stand up comedians that I dislike stand up comedy on principle. But there are plenty of other types of media I consume with lots of problematic elements that I don’t have a particular problem enjoying despite their flaws (like anime). Why do comedians push my buttons so hard? I don’t know. But they do.
Uh, Nick? All your links lead me to Let Me Google That For You, and it Googles “Entitlement”.
Was that the intended effect?
Also, I really do like Movie Bob, and I’m glad Jim’s off on his own website now. I was a little sad when he left, but I’m happy to see he’s still doin’ his thang as it were.
(Did you see the whole thing with the Slaughtering Grounds? It was hilarious.)
“…apparently wishes he could do the same to women when they deserve it.”
That’s not putting words in his mouth at all.
@ParadoxicalIntention:
Shit, I don’t know why it did that – I tried using DoNotLink because, well, I didn’t want the articles to get more traffic. Fuck it, I’ll just give you the links again as they actually are…
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/extra-punctuation/12251-Lichdom-Battlemage-Adds-Diversity-to-Its-Game-With-Gender-Choice
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/extra-punctuation/12596-Bayonetta-s-Gender-is-Woven-Intricately-to-The-Game-s-Plot
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/extra-punctuation/12882-The-PC-Master-Race-Discussion-Political-Correctness-vs-Language-
And, no, I did not see the thing on Slaughtering Grounds. I’ll check it out.
@Nick,
Wow. I can see why those articles turned you off of him. The second one is particularly egregious.
Why? Why does it always come back to people being too worried about pedophiles? Why?
Also, this juxtaposition from the second review:
So, he’s convinced that women must find the super-muscular comic men attractive and that women won’t find said men too muscular for their tastes because dudes on romance novel covers have big muscles too. (I guess that the romance novels that have women in period dress shown from the waist down must mean that all romance novel readers are secretly lesbian, going by this logic?) A few paragraphs down though?
So, he can understand not finding Bayonetta sexy because her proportions are too exaggerated, but he can’t imagine women finding comic book men too muscular and too lacking in other physical traits that women like to be attractive.