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Trouble! Internet mashup king Pogo reveals himself to be a misogynistic douchenozzle [UPDATED with links to archived versions of his posts]

I'm outta here.
I’m outta here.

[UPDATE 2: Pogo now says his misogynistic posts were an “experiment.” For my take on this, see here.]

[UPDATE: Pogo has taken down several of the blog posts mentioned in this post. I have replaced the links to the vanished posts with links to archived versions.]

So you know that dude Pogo, who makes all those amazingly perky-yet-somehow-also-ethereal music/video mashups using snippets of old Disney movies and the like?

Turns out he’s a bit of a misogynistic dickbag.

Yep. On his Pogomix blog, Nick Bertke (his real name) has been posting a bunch of tiresome and achingly unoriginal rants about feminism and the alleged privileges of women that might as well have been cut and pasted from the Men’s Rights subreddit or A Voice for Men.

In “Why We Should Envy Women” he argues that “[d]espite what all these feminists talk about, women actually have things pretty damn good. Better than men, I would say.”

He presents a little list of ways he thinks women have it better than men; it’s an assortment of MRA clichés, a sort of mashup (yep) of Warren Farrell and Girl Writes What, as filtered through a million crappy blogs.

– You are naturally endowed with a more valuable, sought after and artistically favorable body.
– At the bat of an eye, you can be excused from accountability regardless of the magnitude of your actions.
– At 18, you lose the protective status of the child but retain the protective status of the female. …
– Society excuses you from needing to work and says all you need is a hard working and generous man. …
– You are granted the rights of a democracy without the burdens of military service.

The creepiest item on the list is undoubtedly this one:

– You can give the opposite sex a thrashing when the person deserves it.

That’s right: the guy who created the gorgeous “Alice” and the charmingly catchy “Upular” envies women’s alleged ability to beat up their boyfriends without consequence, apparently wishing he could do the same to women when they “deserve it.”

Seemingly channeling the “red pill wisdom” of the internet’s self-proclaimed masters of “Game,” Bertke goes on to explain that women are basically overgrown children needing the “discipline” of a firm father figure.

I’ve always found that the more I treat a woman like a child, the stronger the relationship, the better the sex and the more often it happens. Discipline, reprimand and complete indifference. I think the feminine woman craves the attributes of a firm father in the man she enters a relationship with. The more I realize it, the more I see modern feminism in a different light – it could well be little more than the collective feminine cry for drama and childlike retaliation.

Sigh. He seems to have turned this rant, or portions of it, into a video. (I could only make it through about 30 seconds before my annoyance got the better of me and I turned it off.) [UPDATE: He’s deleted the video.]

In “5 Things I’ve Learned About The Real World,” Bertke urges his readers to, yep, “take the red pill for a minute,” and offers more, er, insights into women’s alleged desire for “fatherly order.”

A lot of women you meet, feminists in particular, will preach that you are the source of their failures and womanly strife. This won’t stop them from playing powerless, and they’ll insist that you roll up your sleeves and rescue them from their mysterious bonds. The collective female cry for fatherly order requires that you as a man are expected to make the world spin.

As you may have noticed, Bertke’s prose is not quite as elegant as his songs. He can’t even keep his metaphors straight.

In “Where Feminism Goes Wrong,” he informs us that “inequality is a door that swings both ways but feminism by definition and in practice treats it as a one way street.” (Here’s an archived copy of the post in case he takes it down too.)

Yep. Inequality is somehow both a door and a street.

He goes on to declare that:

Feminism is taken prisoner by too many women and re-branded as a self entitling social status posing as a humanitarian ideology. There’s really only two possible explanations for why feminism has become a bait and switch: 1. Feminism is revealing its self to be a camouflaged push for gender supremacy, or 2. Feminists just aren’t doing a very good job of communicating their true cause.

There’s actually a third explanation, more convincing than the first two, which is that Nick Bertke has no fucking clue what he’s talking about.

Misogynistic outbursts are apparently not a new thing for Bertke. Last spring, after erratic behavior on his part led some of his fans to worry that he might be undergoing some sort of breakdown, one Redditor reported that “some fans and friends close to Nick that have stated that he’s done something similar in the past, going on a rude, sometimes misogynistic rant and basically acting like a 12 year old … .”

It’s always disappointing to find out that someone whose work you enjoy and admire is a shitty person. Alas, he’s far from the first talented musician to turn out to be a woman-hating asshole.

Bertke, dude, stick to sampling other people’s words. Your own words are terrible.

H/T —   on Twitter, who alerted me to Pogo’s asshattery.

EDIT: Reworded a couple of things.

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Cavalluccio Marino
Cavalluccio Marino
6 years ago

Regarding Art vs Artist: I’ve come up against this phenomenon a few times as a heavy metal fan. For example, Varg Vikernes of Burzum has made racist and anti-Semitic statements in the past, but thankfully these views don’t reflect in his music. There was a good article on the blog No Clean Singing on this topic: http://www.nocleansinging.com/2012/04/06/emancipate-these-riffs-arghoslent/

NickNameNick
NickNameNick
6 years ago

So, he’s convinced that women must find the super-muscular comic men attractive and that women won’t find said men too muscular for their tastes because dudes on romance novel covers have big muscles too.

It definitely shows he doesn’t seem to understand the tastes of women as much as he claims.

I mean, just from my experience alone, women differ greatly in taste as to what they find attractive in a man. That shouldn’t be surprising since human beings, in general, don’t all find the same exact traits either in personality or physical appearance attractive. Almost every culture in the history of civilization proves that…

So, he can understand not finding Bayonetta sexy because her proportions are too exaggerated, but he can’t imagine women finding comic book men too muscular and too lacking in other physical traits that women like to be attractive.

I, personally, think he’s full of shit about Bayonetta’s proportions being “unattractive” – because there is a woman that many men (most especially myself) find incredibly attractive because she is both tall and curvaceous. Her name is Christina Hendricks:

http://cdn.hollywoodtake.com/sites/hollywoodtake.com/files/styles/large/public/2013/06/05/christina-hendricks_1.jpg?itok=v5l35idw

Uzzmuz
Uzzmuz
6 years ago

Update on Pogo from his blog:

http://pogomix.net/social-media-monster/

Uzzmuz
Uzzmuz
6 years ago

It was an “experiment.” My ass.

Uzzmuz
Uzzmuz
6 years ago

Never mind. It was just deleted. *facepalm*

Sissy
Sissy
6 years ago

@Uzzmuz: Well, that’s why there’s no delete button on the Internet. Cached version here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dKCzk005JqgJ:pogomix.net/social-media-monster/

Uzzmuz
Uzzmuz
6 years ago

@Sissy You’re a GOD. And I are confused by intarwebz.

BVH
BVH
6 years ago

Maybe stubborn rape apologists hate to admit they’re wrong. Maybe they’re trying to avoid a scary thought or cognitive dissonance. Or maybe they’ve got a stake in perpetuating rape myths because it allows THEM to sexually assault with near impunity.

I suspect most of these people are virtually virgins. Real rapists are smart enough to not talk about their felonies online without a burner account, and the few who are that dumb are arrested before they can become PUA celebrities. This is what make the whole rape/death threats a macabre black comedy with the intent of terrorizing. While we have to take them seriously, the rape threat is 99% talking smack because it would leave DNA evidence. A killer OTOH only has to use silencer and gloves to have a reasonable belief he’d get away with it.

I would theorize the men acting as rape apologists feel their identity as men is being attacked. A man attacked a woman? She should have known he was going to try to take advantage of her. Because that’s what men are: always thinking about getting sex. Everyone’s fair game. Don’t want sex with a guy? Don’t talk to him. Or smile. Or go out in public.

This is all horribly misogynistic, but it’s worse than that. These people are social cripples if that’s ALL they think society is about.

If they’re not a social cripple, then it could be a case of not being able to empathize abstractly with people they do not know personally. This is a common problem for people on the right end of the political spectrum. It’s easier to feel good punching down. Punching up is risky and there’s no guarantee of victory.

BVH
BVH
6 years ago

@Sissy

Thanks for the link.

*saves page as…webpage compete*

Sissy
Sissy
6 years ago

@Uzzmuz: Don’t thank me, thank my sister and Google Cache. xD

Unfortunate part is that the cached version’s limited for a certain amount of time, so my lazy behind should screencap that ASAP.

katz
6 years ago

I suspect most of these people are virtually virgins. Real rapists are smart enough to not talk about their felonies online without a burner account, and the few who are that dumb are arrested before they can become PUA celebrities. This is what make the whole rape/death threats a macabre black comedy with the intent of terrorizing. While we have to take them seriously, the rape threat is 99% talking smack because it would leave DNA evidence. A killer OTOH only has to use silencer and gloves to have a reasonable belief he’d get away with it.

I think you’re being too optimistic by casting rapists as people who know they’re criminals and are afraid of being caught. Studies have shown that most rapists don’t think what they did was rape, and of course most of the time they’re neither arrested nor punished, even with clear proof.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

“Studies have shown that most rapists don’t think what they did was rape”

This is a major issue and what distinguishes rape from most other crimes. Even prolific thieves know and accept that stealing is wrong. In fact most criminals acquisitive criminals understand the concept of ‘legitimacy’ in the criminal justice system (i.e. they might not want to get caught and punished but they understand that if and when they are it’s a fair result).

Even violent criminals know that *unwarranted* violence is wrong. Many will in fact accept their use of violence was unwarranted and wrong but even those who don’t accept they did wrong will argue that their particular use was warranted, not that there’s anything wrong with the general prohibition on violence.

Rape is different though. The issues with ‘stranger’ rapes are complex but most rapes are by someone known or at least connected with the victim. The perpetrators of these rapes will also accept rape is wrong, but won’t see what they do as rape (often on the grounds that there’s no serious violence or force uses and similar).

This is why when men get angry at the “teach men not to rape” message and say “we know not to rape” they are missing the point. Yes, they won’t even consider leaping out of the bushes one night with knife in hand, but it’s recognising that that’s not the only way rape occurs that’s the issue.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Tell me that women never find big muscles attractive and I will call you a liar, because I have glanced at the romance section of my local bookstore and it’s a wall of bulging torsos with the heads cropped off.

NOT ALL WOMEN BUY ROMANCE NOVELS, YOU ULTRAMAROON.

Also, muscles are actually good for something besides bulging and bouncing during sex*. You know, like lifting heavy things or running really fast?

*We won’t mention breastfeeding, because everybody knows that boobs = sex, and that feeding babies with them is disgusting and obscene.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

^^^^^

On a semi related note, Barbara Cartland (fluffy pink author of gazzilions of ‘bodice ripper’ novels) designed the gliders used on D-Day. Love that fact.

BVH
BVH
6 years ago

I think you’re being too optimistic by casting rapists as people who know they’re criminals and are afraid of being caught. Studies have shown that most rapists don’t think what they did was rape, and of course most of the time they’re neither arrested nor punished, even with clear proof.

I think I was clear I was talking about rape apologists. If I wasn’t, I apologize and am making that clear now.

As for the study, that is very interesting. Do you have a link? Preferably to raw data?

I’m inclined to question how the results are being interpreted. Unemphatic people who use sex as a weapon know damn well what they are doing, that’s why they’re careful to try to pick people who they think can’t fight back. If drugs are involved, then they are simply lying. So at the least I quibble with MOST rapists. I can believe most rapists don’t think rape is wrong, which is a different thing from not knowing they’re doing it.

I can think of a whole host of reasons someone convicted of rape wants to make themselves look good with, “I didn’t know!”

We went through a bit of this when it was thought all child molesters had been molested. Many might have been abused and/or neglected in their upbringing, but they also claimed to have been molested to get a sympathetic ear.

BVH
BVH
6 years ago

RE: I think I was clear I was talking about rape apologists. If I wasn’t, I apologize and am making that clear now.

Never mind. I though you were responding to a different point. My bad. Teach me to be tldr.

BVH
BVH
6 years ago

^^^@ katz

(I will learn how to Internet one day….)

ParadoxicalIntention
6 years ago

NickNameNick: It seems to still be leading me to the Let Me Google That For You page. I don’t know why it’s doing that (It only seems to be doing that on Firefox, and only with your links).

As for the rest of that conversation: If Yahtzee really wanted to make a comment about this, I’d suggest he looks at the difference between how men are portrayed on magazines for men

http://www.hudsonpro.com/m_and_f_small.jpg

Vs. magazines for women.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/07/12/article-2361969-1AC56468000005DC-264_634x832.jpg

On Muscle and Fitness: Bulging muscles, glaring gaze, face tilted down and in shadow, “power stance”, showin’ off his claws (because it’s focusing on how he got fit for the Wolverine role).

On Good Housekeeping: Nice sweater, smiling, face is more open, more relaxed stance.

Yup, we wimmens sure do like those muscles, yes indeedy. Never mind the fact that Bina brought up that not all women like romance novels, and never mind the fact that some romance novels are written and/or had their covers designed *gasp* BY MEN!

Yup. Because authors don’t always design their novel covers, as someone who has written and published novels (LIKE YAHTZEE) should be well aware of.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Couldn’t find the study I think katz is refering to, but I did find this — http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/vio.2014.0022

Small sample size, but of the 73 guys surveyed, 13 would be willing to obtain sex by force, but not “rape” (18%), and another 10 would rape (14%). So nearly a third of these guys would rape, with 57% of them not calling it that.

ParadoxicalIntention
6 years ago

Argenti:

It’s amazing how people’s perceptions change the moment we drop the word “rape”.

Which is why I still advocate teaching men not to rape. Dissenters will say “Everyone knows not to rape! It’s a waste of time!”, but studies like this just show many people still don’t know what rape actually is.

Men still think “obtaining sex by force” is okay, just as long as we don’t call it “rape”, despite the fact that’s the damn definition of rape.

We need better sex education. This bare-minimum, abstinence-only nonsense is obviously not working.

ParadoxicalIntention
6 years ago

Back on the topic of “Women find muscles sexy in games!”, this particular image has been brought up before:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Conan_%282007_video_game_cover%29.jpg

A famous YouTuber brought up that this is “male sexual objectification”.

To which I would respectfully disagree. This image is bad, but not for the same ways he’s thinking. The image itself is bad because of toxic masculinity, not because of “sexual objectification”.

Women don’t wanna fuck that. That’s not a “come hither” kind of portrayal, that’s a “I’m going to lop off your head and drink wine from your skull” kind of portrayal.

Bonus points though for picking a game cover with scantily clad slave girls in the background, and even more bonus points for picking a game where said scantily clad slave girls are collectables in the game.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

I like Good Housekeeping’s Jackman a lot better than the one from the muscle mag. The one looks like a guy I could enjoy talking to, and the other, like one who can’t wait to rip me to shreds. >shudder<

alaisvex
alaisvex
6 years ago

Bonus points though for picking a game cover with scantily clad slave girls in the background, and even more bonus points for picking a game where said scantily clad slave girls are collectables in the game.

Yes, but Pogo’s probably gross enough to consider that yet another sign of how unfairly desirable women’s bodies are.

katz
6 years ago

Couldn’t find the study I think katz is refering to, but I did find this — http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/vio.2014.0022

Yes, that’s the study I was referring to.

Song
Song
6 years ago

@ParadoxicalIntention

I know who you’re talking about, Jontron posted that on his twitter. It sucks that he actually used that image as part of his argument, but I think he got plenty of blowback from people about it. Hopefully he got a bit educated on the subject.

I love Jontron, my nightmare situation is him or the “Best Friends” Mat, Pat, Woolie and Liam pulling a “Pogo” as I am now going to call any situation where a personal favorite internet personality reveals themselves to be sexist/racist/homophobic etcetera….

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Nifty, I had figured you were after that one about college men admitting to having raped, but only if you didn’t use the word rape. Cuz having sex with a passed out woman is totes not rape >.<

katz
6 years ago

Unemphatic people who use sex as a weapon know damn well what they are doing, that’s why they’re careful to try to pick people who they think can’t fight back. If drugs are involved, then they are simply lying. So at the least I quibble with MOST rapists. I can believe most rapists don’t think rape is wrong, which is a different thing from not knowing they’re doing it.

This is actually the inverse of what we see from the kind of misogynists who are featured on this site. Occasionally you see them advocating rape (and calling it rape), but you much more frequently see them arguing that some kinds of rape aren’t really rape. A couple of recent examples: AVFM advocating that sex with an unconscious drunk woman isn’t rape and Vox Day saying that the only real rapes are committed by black and Hispanic strangers.

Here’s a very literal example: Pinky insists that he doesn’t think it’s OK to rape your wife, he just thinks it’s impossible to rape your own wife. But he nevertheless claims to be against rape.

Now, most of these people may know that these things are still legally classified as rape, but they would claim that the law was wrong: That feminists had made completely innocuous, obviously non-rape behavior be classified as rape in order to entrap men.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Ah the “rape is horrible, but X isn’t rape” crowd. Always a “fun” bunch. Particularly when they’re politicians. *bangs head into wall*

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

@ Paradoxicalintention

“Men still think “obtaining sex by force” is okay, just as long as we don’t call it “rape”, despite the fact that’s the damn definition of rape.”

That’s one definition of rape. In England the traditional definition was penetration through “fear, force or fraud”. The ‘fraud’ has to be about the nature, not the circumstances, of the act.

It’s also clear though that’s it’s rape where a woman has no capacity to consent. That includes circumstances where she’s conclusions or otherwise inescapable of making an informed decision whether that be through intoxication (n the legal sense) or lack of capacity (mental impairment, age etc.)

But very few cases turn on consent but rather the belief on consent. We’ve discussed all that of course further up thread.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

conclusions = unconscious

inescapable = incapable

Curse you autocorrect.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Well yeah, there are certainly forms of rape that don’t require force, but using force is rape, unless you’re a bit more than half the men willing to use force, in which case it’s totally not rape! /sarcasm

How fucked is it that there are people who actually think obtaining sex via force is anything besides rape? Like, culturally, in the states at least, there’s still this absurd notion of “real rape” or “rape rape” — where all those other definitions you listed aren’t actually really rape rape… because you need to have been physically forced for it to have been real rape rape. Except apparently nope, even then it might not be rape.

The fucking fuck is this fucking shit?! Our species disgusts me sometimes.

Christina Nordlander
6 years ago

Late comment, but what a complete *douche*. (And I used to like his music, too!) I “love” the argument that women don’t want to work or be in the military, just have a big strong man to provide for us. Has he paid attention to anything a feminist has ever said?

Heck, proto-feminists during the French Revolution campaigned for equal military service for both genders.

freemage
6 years ago

Yeah, the study cited just talked about ‘rape’ and ‘sex by force’. I don’t think it even went into ‘sex with someone too drunk to consent’, and it still hit a 1-in-3 total positive response. And this is a demographic (college men) that skews both white and middle-class-or-higher, in comparison to the rest of the country, so that means that even if you’re one of the Neanderthals that buys into the idea that rape is mostly a crime committed by poor men of color, you’re left veering into nearly “Yes all men” territory by default.

*******

Alan Robertshaw:

That’s one definition of rape. In England the traditional definition was penetration through “fear, force or fraud”. The ‘fraud’ has to be about the nature, not the circumstances, of the act.

That last bit, just to be clear–the law is talking about cases where the rapist says, “I won’t do [x]”, and then does so before the victim has enough warning to say “No”? The U.S. has been grappling with a few cases of ‘circumstance fraud’–specifically, the guy coming into a dark room at a party, claiming to be the woman’s boyfriend/husband, and thus tricking her into ‘consenting’. It’s one of those situations where I really, really wish the law could be dealt with on a common-sense basis, instead of legalese.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

@ freemage

Nope, but that would be covered anyway as you can make consent conditional. The classic being “you must wear a condom”. If the man doesn’t then that’s rape. A lot of people do either really or pretend to misunderstand that though. It’s been an issue in the Julian Assange case.

By ‘Nature;’ I mean if I told a (very naive) girl that what I was doing was a technique to improve here singing voice then that would be rape. That’s actually from a real case.

Just saying “Oh I’m a Navy SEAL” (or a rock star, or that I’ll marry her or I’m not married etc.) is a fraud as to the circumstances and therefore not rape (under the law).

As to the ‘identity’ aspect, it definitely used to be rape if you pretended to be a woman’s husband (either through a ‘Return of Martin Guerre’ type scenario or lying as to legal status). But that was because of the marital exemption to rape; now thankfully abolished.

Strictly speaking the ‘in the dark’ scenario you describe would be a fraud as to the circumstances not the act, but there is old authority (from 1888) that suggests rape by false identity is an offence even if it’s not pretending to be the husband. I can’t find any modern case where that’s been tested though.

I could see the court of appeal upholding any conviction on that basis though; they’re pretty down on rape (It was the CoA who abolished the marital rape exception not the legislature).

freemage
6 years ago

Alan: In the U.S. (specifically, the case I’m half-assedly recalling was in California), the issue has been the wording of the laws against rape–they essentially couldn’t figure out how to differentiate, on the basis of the law-as-writ, the difference between “I’m a fighter pilot who loves kittens” and “Hey, honey, it’s me, Frank”, where both statements are lies used to gain a woman’s consent.

That real case you cite–the one about singing–holy shitballs, that’s disgusting. Though I suppose it resembles some of the turn-of-the-last-century techniques employed by doctors to treat ‘hysteria’–they often entailed little more than molestation to trigger an orgasm, all the while lying to the women about their need for any treatment at all.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

freemage:

1923 actually!

There are some very recent ones about unnecessary ‘medical examinations’ but that’s a bit different I suppose.

This is a weird one (http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Crim/2007/1699.html). Woman tricked into sex by fake messages from police saying she’d be prosecuted if she didn’t sleep with bloke. NOT rape!

Chimalli
Chimalli
6 years ago

Damn I’m so saddened by this, I really liked his work… ach

Neil Dredwood
Neil Dredwood
6 years ago

I don’t even care if he hates women, men, black or white. He created some astonishing piece of art and that is all i to be honest care about. It is not my problem, it is his.

omnigenous
6 years ago

There’s a whole lot of BS on the internet. For example, the comment above with wolverine pictures. You’re comparing a fitness magazine, to a housekeeping magazine. Who are you trying to fool? You only need to google ‘women’s fitness magazine’ and find endless images of bikinis and perfect figures with long hair waving in the wind, big smiles and curves, seductive poses. Stupid argument.

Anyway, when it comes to the Pogo sexism and Yahtzee etc. Not that I agree with their views or anything but you have to wonder how their views came to be. I mean, I’ve lived in a lot of countries and I’ve yet to meet an actual sexist. I think there was one night I met one and quickly went my separate way. But I do find myself turning sexist from listening and reading the feminist nonsense.

First it’s the base nonsense; Rape culture, Wage gap, Gamergate etc. Then it’s the ones who call anybody who disagree a ‘retard who doesn’t have a fucking clue’, regardless of how well informed and rational, or at the least, polite, their argument may be.

Then it just boils down to blind anger and in many cases, physical attacks and direct accusations that can often lead innocents to prison (extreme example I know, but still).

I’m *not* sexist. But as I said, it sometimes comes up because of the way feminists handle themselves and their message. They are for the most part truly awful at it. They allow the extremists to perpetuate and be heard above all others, and OF COURSE that will breed hate and resentment in men. This is why those reddit forums exist. The angry men are defending themselves against the angry women.

It’s time for people to start understanding one another, and consider WHY they’re saying these sexist remarks, WHY women think rape culture exists in the developed west, rather than just state that it’s a fact (which it isn’t) and then just yelling it repeatedly until change happens.

There are other ways to do this.

I’ve seen Pogo in an interview, he seems a nice guy. His shitty views must have been learnt, right? So if you think he’s being ignorant, send him a response which is informative but not on the offence. he might just listen and decide he’s wrong, without having to be publicly shamed into tears, life destroyed and career crippled.

spindrift
spindrift
6 years ago

I’m *not* sexist. But…

Sure…

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

I’m *not* sexist. But as I said, it sometimes comes up because of the way feminists handle themselves and their message. They are for the most part truly awful at it. They allow the extremists to perpetuate and be heard above all others, and OF COURSE that will breed hate and resentment in men. This is why those reddit forums exist. The angry men are defending themselves against the angry women.

It’s time for people to start understanding one another, and consider WHY they’re saying these sexist remarks, WHY women think rape culture exists in the developed west, rather than just state that it’s a fact (which it isn’t) and then just yelling it repeatedly until change happens.

Gather around, boys and girls. This is a wonderful example of that fascinating internet phenomenon called “Gertruding.” For those of you who’ve been reading up, this belongs in the category of “arguments in bad faith.”

Here we see the omega male h. sapiens troll begin with an assertion: “I’m not sexist.” Three words. Three admirable words. Who wouldn’t want to not be sexist? Truly, he is to be admired for this. How we all ardently long to reach this stage of enlightenment.

The troll then spends 66 words in the rest of that paragraph explaining why online misogyny is the fault of angry women, and how if the women just shut up and stayed in the kitchen then there would be no misogyny. That’s twenty-two times more words spent being sexist than his initial assertion of not being sexist.

He then follows up with 48 words in another paragraph explaining how this would all go away if only people would be reasonable. For those of you following along in your notes, can you name this fallacy? Yes? Well done, it is of course the false equivalence. That’s sixteen times more words spent being sexist than his initial assertion that he’s not sexist.

A special mention has to go to the assertion in brackets. In just three words, the omega male explains to us that we’re all wrong and there is no such thing as rape culture. That’s good to know! I’m glad he set that troubled issue at ease. Thank goodness such complex and wide-ranging sociological matters can be resolved through three-word assertions! He didn’t even need to quote his sources or cite any studies. What a master.

We therefore have a three-word assertion from the troll that he is not a sexist, followed by one hundred and fourteen words in which he demonstrates that this assertion is false, including another three-word assertion which attempts to hand-wave away a very large thing with almost no effort at all. We can now see that the troll’s initial three word assertion was nothing but a fig-lead which he’s going to use to attempt to cover himself if I call him on his nonsense. This is known as “Gertruding.”

Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)
6 years ago

@EJ

You counted out that shit and I just rolled my eyes and skipped it because UH BORING TROLL IS BORING.

You have a much better attention span than I do.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

Oh and omnigenous? Before you textwall in response, I feel I should warn you.

Do not fuck with me. I am a STEM-educated white man who owns everything Hitchens ever wrote. I am more verbose, more articulate and more analytical than you could ever hope to be. I am, in short, a levelled-up version of you, except that I’m also emotionally mature enough to understand who the good guys are in this – and it isn’t you, sunshine.

I appreciate that you derive a masturbatory satisfaction from applying an arrogant, patronising, pseudo-reasonable approach to matters which are incredibly personal to other people but not to you; and then when they respond by taking it personally you can pat yourself on the back and telling yourself that they’re nothing but angry unreasonable women. However, this is weak sauce. It’s also ethically abhorrent, but that seems not to bother you.

I also have a month and a half of working my notice in a job which I find interesting but is slowly running down, so I have plenty of time on my hands in which to insult you in ways which your Dunning-Kruger-posterboy ass is going to have to look up.

Turn around and walk away, kiddo. You came here to insult rape survivors to their faces and then congratulate yourself for being more “rational” than them in response. Heavens knows why; we could probably ask some really interesting questions about what sort of person you are that you think this sort of thing is fun, let alone acceptable. We may well ask those sorts of questions.

But we won’t. Because all I need to do is to ask you to cite your peer-reviewed studies to back up the assertions you’ve made, and then we’ll see you dissolve like morning mist, all your claims of rationality and reason left behind along with your dignity and self-respect. You have nothing, and you know it.

Turn around, kiddo. Turn around and walk away. Do not fuck with me.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

Y’know, I normally stick to one-liners and let the smarter regulars do the takedowns, but I’m bored and my cat won’t move from in front of the Splatoon-playing device TV, so hey, let’s have a shot at this.

June 12, 2015 at 3:25 am

Is it really that hard to check the date on the post you’re responding to before releasing the teal deers?

You’re comparing a fitness magazine, to a housekeeping magazine. Who are you trying to fool? Who are you trying to fool? You only need to google ‘women’s fitness magazine’ and find endless images of bikinis and perfect figures with long hair waving in the wind, big smiles and curves, seductive poses. Stupid argument.

That’s less “False equivalence!!!1” and more “What’s the most common combined with a lack of choices.”

Men’s magazines have three main varieties: Fitness mags (which feature men on the cover), car mags (which feature cars) and porn mags (which feature women). Meanwhile, women’s magazines have two main varieties: Housekeeping/parenting (which may feature men, women or babies) and Cleo clones (which feature celebrities). Women’s fitness magazines are niche to the point where I didn’t even know they exist. Literally never seen one.

… And that’s all moot because PI was talking about what straight women (as a whole) find attractive in men (as a whole). What do Photoshopped bikini models have to do with that?

Not that I agree with their views or anything but you have to wonder how their views came to be.

“I’m not an X, but…” strikes again!

I mean, I’ve lived in a lot of countries and I’ve yet to meet an actual sexist. I think there was one night I met one and quickly went my separate way.

Did you read the article? Or any article here? Or literally any comment section on the Internet? Or your own post?

But I do find myself turning sexist from listening and reading the feminist nonsense.

“RAPE IS GOOD” = Not nonsense. “RAPE IS BAD” = Nonsense. Got it.

First it’s the base nonsense; Rape culture, Wage gap, Gamergate etc.

Have some links to explain all three in small, moron-friendly words: Rape culture, the wage gap, #GamerGate.

Then it’s the ones who call anybody who disagree a ‘retard who doesn’t have a fucking clue’, regardless of how well informed and rational, or at the least, polite, their argument may be.

Well that’s a Pinocchio-nosed lie, because intersectional feminists don’t use the r-word and anti-intersectional feminists aren’t welcome here.

Then it just boils down to blind anger and in many cases, physical attacks and direct accusations that can often lead innocents to prison (extreme example I know, but still).

I have literally no idea who or what you’re talking about, so I’ll skip this one.

I’m *not* sexist.

Another lie.

But as I said, it sometimes comes up because of the way feminists handle themselves and their message.

WEE-WOO WEE-WOO MAKE WAY FOR THE TONE POLICE.

They allow the extremists to perpetuate and be heard above all others, and OF COURSE that will breed hate and resentment in men. This is why those reddit forums exist. The angry men are defending themselves against the angry women.

Hey, did you know that the only angry extremist feminist that MRAs talk about, Valerie Solanas, has been dead for 27 years? Most MRAs haven’t even been alive for 27 years.

It’s time for people to start understanding one another, and consider WHY they’re saying these sexist remarks …

Because they’re sexist. Duh.

… WHY women think rape culture exists in the developed west, rather than just state that it’s a fact (which it isn’t) and then just yelling it repeatedly until change happens.

Because it is a fact. Here’s that link again.

His shitty views must have been learnt, right?

Yes, from other men.

So if you think he’s being ignorant, send him a response which is informative but not on the offence. he might just listen and decide he’s wrong, without having to be publicly shamed into tears, life destroyed and career crippled.

You say that as if we don’t try every single time. Spoiler alert: It never, ever works.

Come on, even you can’t be dumb enough to think that somebody who screams about how evil feminists are would be willing to sit down and listen to a feminist talk about feminism.

And the cat’s finally moved. *skips away*

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

Piss. Both botched a blockquote and got stuck in moderation. Take two:

Y’know, I normally stick to one-liners and let the smarter regulars do the takedowns, but I’m bored and my cat won’t move from in front of the Splatoon-playing device TV, so hey, let’s have a shot at this.

June 12, 2015 at 3:25 am

Is it really that hard to check the date on the post you’re responding to before releasing the teal deers?

You’re comparing a fitness magazine, to a housekeeping magazine. Who are you trying to fool? Who are you trying to fool? You only need to google ‘women’s fitness magazine’ and find endless images of bikinis and perfect figures with long hair waving in the wind, big smiles and curves, seductive poses. Stupid argument.

That’s less “False equivalence!!!1” and more “What’s the most common combined with a lack of choices.”

Men’s magazines have three main varieties: Fitness mags (which feature men on the cover), car mags (which feature cars) and porn mags (which feature women). Meanwhile, women’s magazines have two main varieties: Housekeeping/parenting (which may feature men, women or babies) and Cleo clones (which feature celebrities). Women’s fitness magazines are niche to the point where I didn’t even know they exist. Literally never seen one.

… And that’s all moot because PI was talking about what straight women (as a whole) find attractive in men (as a whole). What do Photoshopped bikini models have to do with that?

Not that I agree with their views or anything but you have to wonder how their views came to be.

“I’m not an X, but…” strikes again!

I mean, I’ve lived in a lot of countries and I’ve yet to meet an actual sexist. I think there was one night I met one and quickly went my separate way.

Did you read the article? Or any article here? Or literally any comment section on the Internet? Or your own post?

But I do find myself turning sexist from listening and reading the feminist nonsense.

“RAPE IS GOOD” = Not nonsense. “RAPE IS BAD” = Nonsense. Got it.

First it’s the base nonsense; Rape culture, Wage gap, Gamergate etc.

Have some links to explain all three in small, moron-friendly words: Rape culture, the wage gap, #GamerGate.

Then it’s the ones who call anybody who disagree a ‘r****d who doesn’t have a fucking clue’, regardless of how well informed and rational, or at the least, polite, their argument may be.

Well that’s a Pinocchio-nosed lie, because intersectional feminists don’t use the r-word and anti-intersectional feminists aren’t welcome here.

Then it just boils down to blind anger and in many cases, physical attacks and direct accusations that can often lead innocents to prison (extreme example I know, but still).

I have literally no idea who or what you’re talking about, so I’ll skip this one.

I’m *not* sexist.

Another lie.

But as I said, it sometimes comes up because of the way feminists handle themselves and their message.

WEE-WOO WEE-WOO MAKE WAY FOR THE TONE POLICE.

They allow the extremists to perpetuate and be heard above all others, and OF COURSE that will breed hate and resentment in men. This is why those reddit forums exist. The angry men are defending themselves against the angry women.

Hey, did you know that the only angry extremist feminist that MRAs talk about, Valerie Solanas, has been dead for 27 years? Most MRAs haven’t even been alive for 27 years.

It’s time for people to start understanding one another, and consider WHY they’re saying these sexist remarks …

Because they’re sexist. Duh.

… WHY women think rape culture exists in the developed west, rather than just state that it’s a fact (which it isn’t) and then just yelling it repeatedly until change happens.

Because it is a fact. Here’s that link again.

His shitty views must have been learnt, right?

Yes, from other men.

So if you think he’s being ignorant, send him a response which is informative but not on the offence. he might just listen and decide he’s wrong, without having to be publicly shamed into tears, life destroyed and career crippled.

You say that as if we don’t try every single time. Spoiler alert: It never, ever works.

Come on, even you can’t be dumb enough to think that somebody who screams about how evil feminists are would be willing to sit down and listen to a feminist talk about feminism.

And the cat’s finally moved. *skips away*

(Feel free to delete the first failure, David.)

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

Some of us are stuck in the office and you get to be at home with the cats playing Splatoon? M, I am envying you so hard right now.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

EJ: Australian. It’s 8 pm here. XD

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

No idea why I formatted that post like that instead of the usual @ thing. Oh well.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
6 years ago

You’re also back in the Correct Hemisphere, aren’t you?

*envy*

omnigenous
6 years ago

Sorry for the text wall coming up. Hear me out.

This is what I was referring to when I discussed the levels of nonsense.

Threats, arrogance, dismissal, accusations.

I’m not sexist for the following reasons: Women deserve to be equal. Men are not better than women. Women are not all as pogo describes. Pogos, and the men forums that I’ve admittedly read only small portions of are retarded and uninformed. I acknowledge sexism exists and there will likely always need at least some degree of improvement.

How can you (the other guy, I can’t figure out how to reply to different people) be sarcastic about me not being sexist? I already admitted that I often feel sexist out of frustration, but that is not to say I do not wish for equality across all frontiers; race, sexuality, gender and, god forbid, religion.

‘and how if the women just shut up and stayed in the kitchen then there would be no misogyny’ – I clearly didn’t say that. And I can’t even think of where you think I implied that. I am constantly telling my girlfriend not to quit her job because promotions are on the horizon – and I’m very content with the fact that she earns more than me. I’m also the only one who cooks and cleans, due to my lighter work schedule.

However, I am as objective as I can be when I look at articles and statistics – regardless of my lack of STEM education. And I see rape being punished and protested. I see people hating rapists and catching them and hunting them down. I don’t see, like I see in many middle east and Asian countries where I have lived and experienced first hand, the nonchalant attitude or even encouragement for such acts. That is what I call rape ‘culture’. The fact that rape happens, rarely, doesn’t make it a culture. Call it a situation of semantics, but when I see a culture in an amazon village I see people dressing the same, eating the same and behaving the same. When I see a culture of black people, I see people with black skin. When I see a culture of rape, I see men perpetually raping, high fiving each other and then marrying whichever one they preferred.

It’s not a culture. If you disagree, you can. but calling me sexist because of my opinions is not constructive. Long ago I gave up these discussions because it always ended up with me being yelled at virtually and hated on, despite my very forced attempts at being reasonable and suggesting those to educate me further if they think i’m being ignorant. now, AS A MAN MAYBE YOU CAN BE LOGICAL AND RATIONAL. (See what I did there? I actually highlighted a sentence which is objectively sexist)

The next post, so far, is just a bunch of arrogance, somehow clairvoyantly knowing exactly who I am and how analytical I am, but I won’t attack you for it, since the whole point of my last post was about avoiding that.

As for your claim that I falsely go on about angry women – Really? Have you seen feminist marches and protests? Have you actually been to one? they’re the angriest things I’ve ever seen. Of course they have good reason, but it’s *not* a good way to go about it. I made a point of mentioning the ‘extreme’ feminists because they are very clearly a problem. Not for me, but for many, many girls and indeed, many feminists who are trying to purport their actual message succinctly. It is counter productive and we all know it. I wouldn’t even argue the point if I didn’t have the backing of actual feminists and other females.

You don’t need to take my word for it, that feminists are really not good at achieving their goals. I mean, of course they are when it comes to legislation and the like. But you see men hating on women everywhere, and it’s always directly in response to those outspoken feminists who talk about cutting all men’s balls off and that all acts of sex are rape unless started by the female, or all men are rapists and nothing more. If the fringe extremists weren’t around, I’m pretty confident a huge percentage of men that are not on the bandwagon right now, would be.

I didn’t come here for anything other than to read about Pogo and what some YouTube comments were on about with blocked comments, and I haven’t insulted anyone other than the stupid post above comparing two magazines that are basically unrelated.

It’s interesting that you call me arrogant etc, and then respond far, far more so in that style. Is that a deliberate thing, like, to be ironic or reflective? I’m not sure so again I’ll probably just let that go.

As for peer reviewed blah blah. This is a recent internet phenomenon where anybody who wants to have an opinion suddenly requires either numerous peer reviewed quotes from google or to have done their own peer reviewed study, otherwise they can shut the hell up. I think this is stupid, so again, I’ll ignore that. Having more education/ knowledge/ experience no longer gives you authority. That’s just how the internet is, and it’s a source of rage such as your own; the idea that somebody supposedly inferior to you can have an opinion.

Well, look at me, I have an opinion. I’m happy to discuss it. I’m happy to be corrected and to change my opinions. I’m also happy to dismiss others and correct others accordingly. Is it so hard for you, a leveled-up version of me, a verbose, more articulate and more analytical person than myself, to do the same and give some credit to a little poor country boy with ignorance for his best friend like myself?

Seriously though – I’m just being patronizing in a light-hearted fashion. I’m sure you know your stuff. Just chill out. As you can read above, I’m very much NOT sexist. If I am for some reason, you can at least outline where and how, because I just don’t see it. But try to be a little respectful or it’s just going to be a bore, the kind of teenage phase we go through when getting angry in YouTube comments or something. I know you have a lot of time, and I work 2 hours a day, 3 days a week too, but I do have other things to be doing so let’s be a little more constructive.