[CONTENT WARNING: Misogynistic violence, rape apologia]
His complaint was a familiar one:
I think every girl is a type of slut, they are fussy with men nowadays, they do not give boys like us a chance.
You can find nearly identical laments in the profiles of self-described “nice guys” on OkCupid, on Men’s Rights blogs, and on forums for self-described “Incels” comisserating about their “involuntary celibacy” and what they see as the shallowness of young women.
But these words actually come from a video filmed by Ben Moynihan, a British teenager who was convicted of attempted murder earlier this week after stabbing three women in an attempt to take a sort of revenge upon the “weaker” gender he felt had made his life miserable by denying him sex. Another young man trying to punish women with violence for the “crime” of not dating him.
“I am still a virgin,” he wrote in one note. “Everyone is losing it before me, that’s why you are my chosen target.” In another note, he declared that “all women needs to die and hopefully next time I can gauge [sic] their eyes out.”
Moynihan’s twisted logic is of course eerily similar to that of Elliot Rodger, who went on a shooting spree in Isla Vista last spring in an attempt to “punish” women for their lack of interest in dating him, which he declared to be “a crime that can never be forgiven.”
Thankfully, Moynihan, unlike Rodger, was captured by police before he actually succeeded in killing anyone.
Not so thankfully, both of these men have their fans, including some amongst the usual suspects I write about on this blog. On the incel hangout slutHATE – the successor to PUAhate, on which Elliot Rodger was an occasional commenter – both Rodger and Moynihan have become heroes of a sort to some of the more bitter commenters. Or at least the source of much amusement.
In response to news about Moynihan’s trial, one slutHATEr posted a thread asking “Okay, which one of you did this?” “A new supreme gentleman rises,” wrote another in a different thread devoted to the would-be killer.
A third commenter, going by the name Homesick Alien, asked the question “Are Females days numbered?” listing an assortment of incels who’d killed “females” in an act of twisted “revenge” for their lackluster or nonexistent dating lives. In the comments, Homesick Alien chillingly wrote that
I’m sure someone somehow is rightfully very rageful currently planning the next shooting spree . We can only hope it’ll be more elaborate. Female entitlement is off the charts now, they are out of control,. It’s about time they are put in their fucking place.
Another posted a link to Rodger’s 150-page manifesto, suggesting that “it has the potential to motivate incels to damage the females.”
In a thread from several months ago, a slutHATEr calling himselt NewGenious119 went after fellow incels for not supporting shooting sprees enthusiastically enough.
Seriously, is there something mentally wrong with you? Thinking that a school full of sluts and frat stars getting slain by an incel is a bad thing is characteristic of a normalfag mindset. Our ONLY hope for ever getting to fuck multiple hot sluts is if there are enough incels in the western world who snap and cause bloodshed. It’s the only way that sluts and alphas will realize and accept that there are serious consequences for allowing so many males to live their lives in misery.
Emphasis mine.
As it turned out, there was no need for him to worry that other incels didn’t support spree killngs aimed at “sluts,” as assorted commenters soon let him know.
The rogue MRA and American-Women-Boycotter who calls himself John Rambo seconded his sentiment, writing
I wouldn’t do one myself. But I wouldn’t prevent one from happening if I knew it would as long as I wouldn’t die or a girl that willing to fuck me would. …
Honestly, I truly have very little sympathy for the victims.
A commenter calling himself Worthless Trash only had one complaint: that the death tolls weren’t higher.
I just wish these guys would make better plans and kill their targets and more of them, but sadly most of them have a weakened will-power after all the years of rejections and maybe bullying.
Also i don’t care if it will solve the problem or not, i just feel better hearing this, it’s like divine justice, they feel so superior but in the end they die like worms, just like they treat other guys, like worms, so in the end we are all equal.
Still others offered their assent:
I personally rejoice whenever I hear news of a school shooting.
The higher the death count, the better
i like their kill count high, because it’s always satisfying seeing someone arrogant going from rich to poor, beautiful too ugly from popular to dead
While a few commenters spoke out against the idea of mass murder as a reasonable response to a lack of dates, they were in the distinct minority.
And then there was this guy:
i support ERism [Elliot Rodgerism], but I would never do it myself, my brother is a doctor and his career would be ruined if our family name ever got tarnished
It would be a little easier to dismiss all this as merely internet dumbassery, were it not for the fact that Rodger went out and killed 6 people after posting similar comments on the message board that later became slutHATE.
While commenters like these are a distinct minority even in the sordid world of the manosphere, the sad and scary fact is that there are a frightening number of young and not-so-young men who have embraced one of the central assumptions of the murder-spree-supporting incels of slutHATE – the notion that women who put “nice guys” in the “friend zone” are committing some kind of crime against them, and deserve to be punished for it, individually or collectively.
You can see variations on this in assorted memes attacking women – much as Moynihan and Rodgers did – for supposedly preferring “bad boys” and assholes over the “nice guys” of the world.
Other “friend zone” memes are a bit darker.
And darker still:
And somehow even darker than that:
And we’re just begun to scratch the surface here.
In a followup post, I will look at the ways in which the rampant “slutbashing” of Men’s Rights Activists and other manosphere denizens helps to feed the toxic culture of aggrieved sexual entitlement that has contributed to violence against women.
The fact is that, yes, everyone here pretty much did miss my point. Now, I know you guy like the feminist “circle jerk” model. This is so you can all be wrong but tell each other you’re not wrong so you don’t feel bad about being wrong.
To Chaos-Engineer,
Indeed, people DO have a right to verbally disapprove of the choices others make. That is a part of free speech. Freedom to do as one pleases is not freedom from judgement.
Second, you mock me for comparing female entitlement to birth control to male sexual entitlement.
But, let me ask you this one, why is birth control a health care issue?
If sex is part of health care, why is sexual depravity not?
Providing a right to birth control without a right to sex is like providing a right to a helmet without a right to a motorcycle. It is ridiculous.
Also. I do NOT support a government subsidized prostitution. That’s somebody else on here .
I’ll be awaiting your ill informed response. I’ll also be awaiting the other feminists on here to affirm your ill informed response so you can all declare yourself correct by “social proof” and then complete the feminist circle jerk.
Seconding to policy of madness, Tom is basically blaming feminists for men murdering people when they can just go see a counselor or build a shelter for men. I keep hearing him say ‘feminists say this and that’ but what feminists?
http://media.tumblr.com/cba2f4bed8eefc745164e5894ea6a8c3/tumblr_inline_n5clvbB16D1r64lal.gif
@Tom Saw: Don’t have time to explain all of your wrongness, but I will challenge you on one thing in a way that even you might begin to understand: birth control is indeed a healthcare issue. Birth control methods like the pill are not just used for preventing pregnancy, they are used by many women to help with fairly common hormonal issues. Without it, they experience mood swings, increased flow during periods, longer periods, more pain during periods, unpredictable periods, and other symptoms.
I mean, that is not to mention the actual pregnancy aspect, but you aren’t about to actually give a shit about that, so there you go.
“Sexual depravity”? Well, I’ll give you this–all you incel assholes are sexually depraved.
Tom saw,
If we’re not allowed to criticize men who criticize our sexual choices,doesn’t it follow that you shouldn’t be criticizing us for calling it entitlement when men think they have the right to fuck us because they’re “nice?” You can’t it both ways.
Wow, how ignorant are you Tom? Do you really not know that contraceptive pills have benefits besides preventing pregnancy? Here, try educating yourself before you show your arse again.
http://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/birth-control-benefits
@Tom Saw:
http://youngwomenshealth.org/2011/10/18/medical-uses-of-the-birth-control-pill/
Birth control is provided in the form of a pill, not a person. Helmets and motorcycles are not people. Sex (of the sort you’re talking about) is with a person. Not a great analogy.
@TomSaw
Do you really want to have a debate? It doesn’t seem like it. Your comments about an “ill informed response” clearly show that you have no interest in hearing what we have to say and that you assume you already know how we will respond. Enjoy arguing with your strawmen.
I certainly won’t be wasting my time.
My birth control method required multiple medical personnel and several needles–one to dull the pain, one for the implantation. Sex generally doesn’t involve any needles, and usually doesn’t involve medical personnel. At least not on-duty medical personnel.
I’m gonna pretend Kim didn’t totally ninja me because we linked to separate sites. Mmhm. Yep. 😛
Even if you’re talking only about the pill’s benefits sexually, sexual health is very much a part of healthcare. It’s why almost any medical facility will pass out free condoms. Preventing pregnancy means fewer abortions, fewer children born into families that can’t support them, and fewer health concerns related to pregnancy.
None of this is related to the amount of sex a particular person is having, by the way, but completely about staying safe and protected while having sex. Governments will pass seatbelt laws to make sure people are protected during potential accidents, but that doesn’t mean they must also dictate that people must drive.
No, we understood your point. Your point is stupid, unsupported and illogical. What we “missed” was agreement with your stupid, unsupported, illogical point.
It’s almost like you don’t understand that pregnancy is a health condition, and that the treatment and prevention of pregnancy is therefore a part of health care. Or maybe you do understand this, and you’re blocking it out because you have a stupid, unsupported and illogical point to hammer and the fact that pregnancy is a health condition doesn’t fit in with it.
Now you’re just trolling me.
But for some reason you don’t think women have a right to vent and express anger at men who men who vent and express anger that women have the right to self-determination and bodily autonomy. It’s almost like you think only men have the right to be upset that women won’t give them sex, and women don’t have the right to be upset that angry men injure and kill women who won’t give them sex.
Yep. You think men have a right to work themselves into a literally murderous froth over women having bodily autonomy, but women are obligated to tiptoe around this and never say a negative word about it. HMMMM! That couldn’t possibly be a double-standard you’re wielding there!
Mmmmmmmmmmmmaybe you ought to read some feminists? Even just this site? And you’ll see that the feminist answer is for men to free themselves from a culture that makes sexual achievements the paramount way that men measure their self-worth? This thing called toxic masculinity, feminists kind of wish that didn’t exist? And it would be great for men if it didn’t? Is that asking too much?
Oh, what am I saying, I’m talking to someone who thinks it’s fine for men to say they want to literally kill women, and then some of them literally go out and kill women, and women aren’t allowed to discuss that at all.
But women aren’t allowed to talk about how men discussing how much they’d like to murder women is an act of terrorism. Nope. Only men deserve to have space to talk out their feelings and egg each other on to violence. Women don’t deserve spaces to talk about their feelings.
LOLOL you’re on a post discussing a young man who literally tried to murder women because he wasn’t getting laid, and you want to talk about how powerless men FEEL. Yes, let’s talk about FEELS and not about the actual act of sticking a knife into another human being in an attempt to end that other person’s life.
Let me tell you something about power. There is an entire body of literature out there, about what power is, who wields it and how, and all the different ways it can be recognized. A woman swishing her butt and giving a man a hard-on is not an exercise of power. A man sticking a knife into a woman’s body in an attempt to kill her is. These words, they mean things.
Go home. You aren’t ready for this conversation.
And medical grade “contraception” for men is covered under health insurance, too. It isn’t women’s fault that the only form of BC for people with testicles that requires a doctor is sterilization, but men who want it are now covered by their insurance.
Governments will pass seatbelt laws to make sure people are protected during potential accidents, but that doesn’t mean they must also dictate that people must drive.
Or provide a lamborghini to anyone who demands one.
There’s also this assumption that because you hand out free condoms, you’re supposed to hand out free sex too. No, doofus, millions (billions??) of people every day manage to have sex with no assistance from govt agencies. Preventing unwanted pregnancies and STDs is actually a bit of an issue.
To reuse your stupid motorbike analogy, providing free birth control would be like looking at all the people *who already have motorbikes* and giving them free helmets.
In both cases the riding comes first, and everyone who isn’t head-up-arse ignorant like you realises that’s how the system works.
Someone else already explained how hormonal birth control has medical uses. I will also note that pregnancy itself could be considered a medical condition. It completely changes the body and women still die in childbirth sometimes. There’s also a risk of post partum depression. Pregnancy is not an easy simple thing to be taken lightly and with the technology to prevent pregnancy existing, it’s a good thing for women and society as a whole for us to only be pregnant when we’re ready. It’s good for men who are saved 18 years of child support payments. It’s good for taxpayers because contraception costs less than pregnancy and labor. Also, that’s less money in welfare when women who aren’t financially stable can avoid pregnancy.
Birth control is in no way a sexual entitlement. We’re only asking to take care of our own bodies, the same as men do (insurance always covered erectile dysfunction treatment ) it has nothing to do with us imposing our on the bodies of others the way Incels do.
Also, if feminists are equivalent to incels, how come no feminist has ever gone on a murder spree over lack of access to birth control? How come we don’t have forums devoted to fantasizing about killing those that would deny it?
Sorry for being so newbie are but How does does the block quote work ?
I’m not really sure what you mean by ‘sexual depravity’ (and I’m not sure that I want to know, either). Anyway, check this out: if you can’t afford a motorbike, then you don’t have a right to have it provided for you.
How would a right to sex work, anyway, unless some third party is going to enforce it by forcing people into having sex with you? Why should your supposed right to sex trump anybody else’s rights to bodily autonomy and integrity? I mean, the only ‘solution’ I can see to the ‘problem’ you seem to think exists is if women were forced to have sex with whining incels whether they wanted to or not, i.e., if the state instituted the systematic rape of HB9s and 10s. And that is simply nightmarish.
Your ‘right’ to get your dick wet* isn’t that big a deal. Sort your fucking life out.
*Sorry to everyone else for use of this horrible expression. Also: hi again. I’ve posted on here a few times in the past under this nym; not sure why I felt motivated to post again now but there you go.
When did “nice” stop meaning someone who was good for goodness sake? I always thought a “nice guy” was, you know, someone who’d jump start a strangers car if it was stalled in the middle of the road or at least help give it a push regardless of the gender or attractiveness of the stalled driver. Now it seems to equate with someone who thinks that sex is the currency owed for just being polite.
Fuck these people, I want “nice” back. They stole it!
@Fabe
Welcome to Mammoths – this Welcome package will explain block quotes as well as lots of other things.
Sex is extremely easy for anyone with a typical body layout, and most people who have atypical body layouts, and you don’t need another person’s help. Your arms are long enough for your hands to reach your sexual organs. Voila!
Now that I’ve cleared that up for you, you can go on to have all of the sex you need.
I think by “sexual depravity” he meant “sexual deprivation”. However, what he actually typed works much better.
And Fabe, blockquotes work like this: (blockquote) Thing you want to quote (/blockquote), but replace the parenthesis with the sharp carrot things (they are the same keys as , and . ). Like this: <
Html codes!
< turns into <, and > turns into >
Makes explaining html tags much easier. 🙂
There’s a lot of great responses. Tom, you gonna say anything?
@Michael
It’s turned into someone who will do those things but complain bitterly inside about how no one ever does anything nice for them. I think most Nice Guys have a gloss of niceness on them – they act nice and do nice things – but their motivation for everything is all about earning points, with no concept of how reciprocity actually works. It would be so much easier for everyone if they’d just stop doing nice things and be their true selves. Some of these guys have gone that extra step into honesty, but they keep calling themselves Nice Guys without even that tiny legitimacy.
“Reclaiming” ‘Nice Guy’ is super hard when the reason it’s become such a terrible term is because of how insistant these guys are in calling themselves ‘Nice Guys.’ Personally I think it’s fine to keep the term ‘Nice Guy’ instead of nice guy, and let niceness speak for itself.