[CONTENT WARNING: Misogynistic violence, rape apologia]
His complaint was a familiar one:
I think every girl is a type of slut, they are fussy with men nowadays, they do not give boys like us a chance.
You can find nearly identical laments in the profiles of self-described “nice guys” on OkCupid, on Men’s Rights blogs, and on forums for self-described “Incels” comisserating about their “involuntary celibacy” and what they see as the shallowness of young women.
But these words actually come from a video filmed by Ben Moynihan, a British teenager who was convicted of attempted murder earlier this week after stabbing three women in an attempt to take a sort of revenge upon the “weaker” gender he felt had made his life miserable by denying him sex. Another young man trying to punish women with violence for the “crime” of not dating him.
“I am still a virgin,” he wrote in one note. “Everyone is losing it before me, that’s why you are my chosen target.” In another note, he declared that “all women needs to die and hopefully next time I can gauge [sic] their eyes out.”
Moynihan’s twisted logic is of course eerily similar to that of Elliot Rodger, who went on a shooting spree in Isla Vista last spring in an attempt to “punish” women for their lack of interest in dating him, which he declared to be “a crime that can never be forgiven.”
Thankfully, Moynihan, unlike Rodger, was captured by police before he actually succeeded in killing anyone.
Not so thankfully, both of these men have their fans, including some amongst the usual suspects I write about on this blog. On the incel hangout slutHATE – the successor to PUAhate, on which Elliot Rodger was an occasional commenter – both Rodger and Moynihan have become heroes of a sort to some of the more bitter commenters. Or at least the source of much amusement.
In response to news about Moynihan’s trial, one slutHATEr posted a thread asking “Okay, which one of you did this?” “A new supreme gentleman rises,” wrote another in a different thread devoted to the would-be killer.
A third commenter, going by the name Homesick Alien, asked the question “Are Females days numbered?” listing an assortment of incels who’d killed “females” in an act of twisted “revenge” for their lackluster or nonexistent dating lives. In the comments, Homesick Alien chillingly wrote that
I’m sure someone somehow is rightfully very rageful currently planning the next shooting spree . We can only hope it’ll be more elaborate. Female entitlement is off the charts now, they are out of control,. It’s about time they are put in their fucking place.
Another posted a link to Rodger’s 150-page manifesto, suggesting that “it has the potential to motivate incels to damage the females.”
In a thread from several months ago, a slutHATEr calling himselt NewGenious119 went after fellow incels for not supporting shooting sprees enthusiastically enough.
Seriously, is there something mentally wrong with you? Thinking that a school full of sluts and frat stars getting slain by an incel is a bad thing is characteristic of a normalfag mindset. Our ONLY hope for ever getting to fuck multiple hot sluts is if there are enough incels in the western world who snap and cause bloodshed. It’s the only way that sluts and alphas will realize and accept that there are serious consequences for allowing so many males to live their lives in misery.
Emphasis mine.
As it turned out, there was no need for him to worry that other incels didn’t support spree killngs aimed at “sluts,” as assorted commenters soon let him know.
The rogue MRA and American-Women-Boycotter who calls himself John Rambo seconded his sentiment, writing
I wouldn’t do one myself. But I wouldn’t prevent one from happening if I knew it would as long as I wouldn’t die or a girl that willing to fuck me would. …
Honestly, I truly have very little sympathy for the victims.
A commenter calling himself Worthless Trash only had one complaint: that the death tolls weren’t higher.
I just wish these guys would make better plans and kill their targets and more of them, but sadly most of them have a weakened will-power after all the years of rejections and maybe bullying.
Also i don’t care if it will solve the problem or not, i just feel better hearing this, it’s like divine justice, they feel so superior but in the end they die like worms, just like they treat other guys, like worms, so in the end we are all equal.
Still others offered their assent:
I personally rejoice whenever I hear news of a school shooting.
The higher the death count, the better
i like their kill count high, because it’s always satisfying seeing someone arrogant going from rich to poor, beautiful too ugly from popular to dead
While a few commenters spoke out against the idea of mass murder as a reasonable response to a lack of dates, they were in the distinct minority.
And then there was this guy:
i support ERism [Elliot Rodgerism], but I would never do it myself, my brother is a doctor and his career would be ruined if our family name ever got tarnished
It would be a little easier to dismiss all this as merely internet dumbassery, were it not for the fact that Rodger went out and killed 6 people after posting similar comments on the message board that later became slutHATE.
While commenters like these are a distinct minority even in the sordid world of the manosphere, the sad and scary fact is that there are a frightening number of young and not-so-young men who have embraced one of the central assumptions of the murder-spree-supporting incels of slutHATE – the notion that women who put “nice guys” in the “friend zone” are committing some kind of crime against them, and deserve to be punished for it, individually or collectively.
You can see variations on this in assorted memes attacking women – much as Moynihan and Rodgers did – for supposedly preferring “bad boys” and assholes over the “nice guys” of the world.
Other “friend zone” memes are a bit darker.
And darker still:
And somehow even darker than that:
And we’re just begun to scratch the surface here.
In a followup post, I will look at the ways in which the rampant “slutbashing” of Men’s Rights Activists and other manosphere denizens helps to feed the toxic culture of aggrieved sexual entitlement that has contributed to violence against women.
ParadoxicalIntention, you have said what I was thinking…and you did it so well that I am awed.
Thank you. There is nothing I could ever hope to add.
…and the misogynists responsible for it then use that PTSD to mock women, call us all “crazy” = completely untrustworthy or capable. We’re called weak for being damaged by a culture of rape, inequality and fear. “Crazy” people are blamed for the violence that causes that fear. Then crazy = all human evil and women are still “crazy”.
Handy little loop to trap women in, isn’t it?
Re: slutty clothes and slutty behavior
The idea that slutty clothes or slutty behavior encourage or promote or have any increased affect on rape is pretty silly when you consider that in countries where women literally cover themselves head to toe and are barely allowed to leave the house rape occurs all the fucking time!
Oh, dear. I haven’t gotten through all the comments on this one but it’s been bugging me now for days. I just can’t wrap my mind around someone wanting to use another human being, a hot babe, as a thing to be used to gain admiration and an open door to other hot babes. Like stylish clothing or hairstyle. A thing. And sex with a hot babe being the only thing to bolster a guy’s self esteem, huh? That’s shallow and again reduces the hot babes to nothing but things. I don’t feel sorry for these guys, not even the ones who aren’t looking for a bigger body count (those need to be profiled and watched). Gain some insight, fellas, and grow out of this. sheesh
@Ellesar, Don’t blame this on psychiatric disorders. Even if he has one, it has nothing to do with his actions. He’s already had a diagnosis of ASD, which has gotten us worried that this guys actions would be based on autism/Aspergers. We’ve been talking about him before David made this blogpost:
http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=275057&p=6440794#p6440794
I suspect it won’t be long before these guys start joining ISIS, or another similar radical Islamic organization.
In fact, it’s already happening; the South Korean kid who joined ISIS recently cited his hatred of feminism and his MRA-like opinions as his reason for joining.
For a “Christian Grey” wannabe who wants to create a world in which he has total power over women, and can make these do anything he wants them to do, ISIS and Boko Haram’s brand of Islam is practically a dream come true for them.
I really do think that these self-proclaimed “incels” and MRAs are only going to become more violent, and more inclined toward Jihadism, in the future.
Sadly, Eliot Rodger Was A Terrorist, I have to agree. My husband and I have been discussing just this for the past few weeks and we have come to one, very terrifying, understanding – that this has happened before and will happen again. Historically, one of a number of places we can look is the centuries-long Inquisition of the old Catholic Church. When, desiring money, land and power, the church held up the “demon” of “witchcraft” to the people and gave it a mainly female face, the fires burned. In some towns so many women were killed, they had to import wives. And they did not stop with adult women. Girl babies were thrown on the fires and young girl children were forced to watch their mothers burn.
Anytime the power elite want to gain more power and/or protect the power and privilege they have, they pick a group – women, people of other colors/religions/nationalities – and they convince the powerless and poor that THOSE folk are the cause of all their suffering. It deflects attention away from the top 1% or so who are the REAL causes of misery, with their political, economic and religious manipulations of society. And we never learn. This is the most recent “movement” and, with the whole world wired for information and communication, it does not take long to spread the hate. Just pick a button and you will find millions ready and willing to push it.
The real problem is not women, it is folk like the Koch brothers. But it is easier to attack the woman/person of color/fill-in-the-blank. And the ones at the top are counting on it.
“When, desiring money, land and power, the church held up the “demon” of “witchcraft””
Someone did a study of witchcraft trials. In some jurisdictions the accuser received half of the witch’s estate if they were convicted; in others they didn’t. Guess what the result is when you compare prosecution rates between the two.
One thing that stood out for me when I read about black history in America was the use of terror tactics against black Americans. The threat of violence was enough to keep African-Americans looking over their shoulders, adhering to elaborate social rituals of deference, and families policing their children’s behavior hoping to keep them safe. I couldn’t help but draw parallels to the socially normalized threats against women and the ways it affect women’s behavior and how families bring up their daughters. This is how social control of an oppressed class works. It’s the same pattern with, say, the way caste is upheld in India: Behavioral control backed up by a climate of violence. Misogynists don’t want all women dead any more than most racists want all blacks dead. They want violence against these groups to be a constant, unpredictable threat so the oppressed class live in fear and modify their behavior accordingly, e.g. a woman is afraid to say “no” to sexual advances from a man.
how ironic! these nice guy memes arent very nice at all!
wait was the last meme suggesting having sex with a dead body???!!!!
well, these are people caught between two conflicting giant forces and bashed for many years by the two!
On the one hand they have the mighty drive to reproduce and rate themselves on that, together with societies high value it places on that (some may argue natural)… and when they try to follow this unstoppable force, they can’t……… for some reason that is apparnetly outside their control…. it just doesnt happen for them, sometimes never! They are punished for failure, punished for inaction… they are cursed! All of this happens inside their bodies. They get to witness the funamentally most important thing to any young person dashed for them and dealt to all those around them. Would you not be even just that tiny bit slightly bitter?
They are then punished very, very severly on many different levels. They feel humiliated, suffer low self esteem, depression…. real suffering that doesnt go away… what happenes when you just cant get something you want really badly, no matter what you try? You get very, very angry! We’re not talking about something that is easily controlled; we’re talking about many, many years of the same drip….drip…drip… water torchure. Thats not to say I think women have an obligation to help out… you cant make someone attracted to you… but what you have to remember is the need to reproduce (or take part in the activity) is hardwirered. You cannot remove yourself from the game… you’re in the game unless you cut something off. There is no escape… nature wanted it that way. The people dont have the option to cool down and come to terms with the fact they dont seem to be entitled to a partner when nearly every one else is.
BUT, if society did watch out for the signs someone was incel, maybe they could look for mental issues that have lead to that outcome and try to correct these as early as possible, especially since a small minority of these people do crack under such pressure and become a danger.
Considering most people meet partners through social circles (78% I belive), I’m willing to bet the main issue is not having a good social life… having access to a social circle. And I’m willing to bet, by far, the main two contributing factors are:
social shyness.
asberger / poor social skills.
Looks do of course factor in.. and I firmly belive a hot (looking) person with the two above problems will rise above it. But, if you’re average or slightly below, the two above problems are more than enough to keep you out of the game for good if you’re a male!
Mighty Drive to Reproduce. Oh my.
The phrase “and dealt to all those around them” is, I think, significant. It may be possible to believe that everyone you know is having sex with everyone else you know, and you (and you alone) are the sole outcast who is not gettin none. It is also very unlikely to be true. If you have social shyness* and poor social skills, then yes, every human activity that requires interacting with other humans is going to be a challenge. However, the human brain is a remarkably plastic organ, and its programming can be changed. It’s a simple process – unfortunately, simple is not a synonym for easy.
Oh, let’s just blame those hateful b!t€he$ for everything.
*As opposed to antisocial shyness, which is just obnoxious.
Shorter jeffermanny7979:
“Everybody wants to fuck! (What’s an ‘asexual’??) It’s a drive all humans have! And when a guy can’t get laid, and he’s also got mental issues (What’s ‘ableism’??), then he just goes out and stabs people!
Please try to empathize with the guy who tried to kill three women! He was obviously suffering! I know women have no responsibility to help out, but it’s still not his fault because the need for sex is hardwired into our brains, and he was being punished for not getting any! (What’s an ‘asexual’ again?) So, I’m really saying he should have gotten the sex he felt entitled to!
He’s just bitter and sad he couldn’t get laid, which is something everyone needs! (No, but seriously, what’s an ‘asexual’?)”
Shorter jeffermanny7979 aside: “What’s ‘necroing’ mean?”
Speaking as a recluse with social anxiety issues, I’ve never once had the urge to kill any women cause of any unfulfilled desire to reproduce. Possibly cause I think of women as people and not walking sex orifices.
Look, kid, I know “Assburgers” is a common joke around 4Chan (when they’re not all falsely claiming to be autistic as an online get-out-of-jail-free card), but “Asperger’s” doesn’t actually have a B in it.
People are dealt sexual partners? If I’m not satisfied with the hand of men I’m dealt can I draw a few more. I’m holding out for a royal flush!
WARNING, HUGE ZOMBIE TEAL DEAR INCOMING
“well, these are people caught between two conflicting giant forces and bashed for many years by the two!”
Ah yes, the “well both sides are kind of problematic” argument. Also known as “shit, our movement is pretty shitty, I can’t really deny that, so I’ll claim that the OTHER side is just as bad”
“On the one hand they have the mighty drive to reproduce and rate themselves on that, together with societies high value it places on that (some may argue natural)…”
Yes, it’s also known as “toxic masculinity”, the incredibly unhealthy belief that men “always have to be ready to fuck” because “all men want sex all the time otherwise they’re not a MAYUN”. The fact that you actually believe that this is some force of nature shows just how prevalent this toxic masculinity truly is.
“and when they try to follow this unstoppable force, they can’t………”
THE DESIRE TO PUT YOUR PENIS IN SOMEONE IS NOT AN UNSTOPPABLE FORCE
“for some reason that is apparnetly outside their control….”
Ah yes, how dare a woman have her own desires/thoughts/rights? The “if women would just fuck these people they won’t go on killing sprees” argument has been skewered enough times that I don’t feel the need to even address it. Naturally, the problem is once again called toxic masculinity. Men’s self-worth SHOULD NOT be determined by their sexual history. It’s bullshit and feminists like myself are fighting to end this.
“it just doesnt happen for them, sometimes never!”
Aw, am I supposed to actually feel sorry for the type of guy who goes on message boards complaining about how “every girl is a type of slut”? Next you’ll try and tell me that they’re some sort of nice guy.
“They are punished for failure, punished for inaction… they are cursed!”
Wow so NOT putting any sort of effort and thus NOT forming any relationship is now a curse? If it is, it’s a self-fulfilling curse.
Also do explain how they are “punished for failure”. I’ve gotten rejected plenty of times, nobody came by to “punish me”.
“All of this happens inside their bodies. They get to witness the funamentally most important thing to any young person dashed for them and dealt to all those around them.”
Another problem of society: stop elevating sex to “the fundamentally most important thing to any young person”, it’s not healthy and will lead to disappointment.
As Mark Twain said:
‘One of life’s most over-valued pleasures is sexual intercourse; of one of life’s least appreciated pleasures in defecation.’
“Would you not be even just that tiny bit slightly bitter?”
No because I’m not an entitled fuckwad who sees women as sex-dispensing machines. I get rejected, and I move the fuck on because I respect her decision to not want to date me. Rejection hurts, it’s part of the risk. If you cannot handle having your feelings hurt, you do not need to participate. Of course, if you don’t participate, don’t expect to get a relationship.
“They are then punished very, very severly on many different levels.”
So vague. Do tell, who is punishing them? Why are they punished? What are all these different levels
“They feel humiliated, suffer low self esteem, depression…. real suffering that doesnt go away…”
You know what else “doesnt go away”? Getting STABBED or SHOT. This is why the phrase “men are afraid women will laugh at them; women are afraid men will kill them” sadly describes the world of dating way too accurately.
Also, depression does not just happen through getting rejected. That’s when you need to see a therapist.
“what happenes when you just cant get something you want really badly, no matter what you try? You get very, very angry!”
No, that’s how a TODDLER reacts when his or her parent doesn’t let them have a cookie. Once you’re old enough to date you’re supposed to know a LITTLE more about how life works, that the universe does not revolve around you and you’re not going to get every single one of your needs reacted.
“We’re not talking about something that is easily controlled; we’re talking about many, many years of the same drip….drip…drip… water torchure.”
I’m amused that you’re expecting ANYONE to feel sympathy for someone who puts NO effort into their dating life, has a temper tantrum when they get rejected, and then goes on messageboards to complain about how “all girls are kind of sluts”.
“Thats not to say I think women have an obligation to help out… you cant make someone attracted to you… but”
Oh classic, the “i’m not X buuuuuuuuut….” fallacy.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/I%27m_not_prejudiced,_but…
“what you have to remember is the need to reproduce (or take part in the activity) is hardwirered.”
Following that same logic, my need to shit is hardwired, therefore should be allowed to shit whenever and wherever I want.
“You cannot remove yourself from the game… you’re in the game unless you cut something off. There is no escape… nature wanted it that way.”
Once again, the idea of men being ‘uncontrollable sexual animals’ is a bullshit myth that contributes to toxic masculinity. If you genuinely have the CONSTANT urge to sex all the time, you need to speak with a sex therapist.
“The people dont have the option to cool down and come to terms with the fact they dont seem to be entitled to a partner when nearly every one else is.”
Wow, you’ve hit the dailydouble bullshit.
1. No, people very much DO have the option to cool down and come to terms with the fact that not everyone is put on this earth to cater to their needs. It’s a part of growing up.
2. You actually think people are entitled to having someone as a partner.
“BUT, if society did watch out for the signs someone was incel, maybe they could look for mental issues that have lead to that outcome”
Being misogynistic, being incapable of handling rejection, seeing people as entitled to the bodies of others, never asking anyone out then complaining about not getting dates. These attitudes are twisted and fucked up, but they are NOT mental issues.
“and try to correct these as early as possible, especially since a small minority of these people do crack under such pressure and become a danger.”
The way to get rid of these toxic attitudes is to GET RID of bullshit gender roles and put an end to toxic masculinity. Making it ok for men to express their emotions without being told to “man up”. The fact that you just perpetuated the stereotype that “men can’t control themselves” shows me that we ain’t there yet.
“Considering most people meet partners through social circles (78% I belive), I’m willing to bet the main issue is not having a good social life… having access to a social circle. And I’m willing to bet, by far, the main two contributing factors are:”
Really? You needed a statistic to conclude that “people date by socializing amongst friends”?
“social shyness.
asberger / poor social skills.”
Um, no. I think blatant misogyny, entitlement, constantly complaining about how the world is out to get them was probably a LITTLE more off-putting to their peers. I know this because I have HAD friends like that. “had” being the key word.
“Looks do of course factor in.. and I firmly belive a hot (looking) person with the two above problems will rise above it. But, if you’re average or slightly below, the two above problems are more than enough to keep you out of the game for good if you’re a male!”
That brings up another point. Let’s say that poor social skills is the main factor (obviously it isn’t, but I do agree that poor social skills leads to a lack of relationships). Wouldn’t the obvious solution be “teach these men better social behavior?”
Nice one, Moocow.
I’m an abuse survivor with depression who was bullied, and I’ve managed not to kill anyone. You’re full of shit and misogyny, jeffermanny.
Alternative framing. They have a sex drive and a relationship drive, but haven’t been able to form a relationship with someone. They get jealous of people around them who do have the relationships they’d like to have.
Wow… when you phrase it without the absurd hyperbole, it sounds almost… mundane. Almost like practically everyone else in the world with the same drives have gone through the same thing at some point in their lives.
Oops, how did that video get here? Huh, well, since we’re on a tangent, the interesting thing about this test is that the children who do best are the ones who are able to distract themselves and do something else. The ones who fail are the ones who constantly think about the marshmellow until it fills their mind and they break down.
Anyway, what were we talking about?
If they think other people have partners because they were entitled to one, they are fundamentally misunderstanding what a relationship is. A partner is not a possession one has; a partner is a person that one does things with. Maybe if they saw women as fellow people and not masturbatory tools, maybe it’d be more likely that a woman would want them to be her partner as well.