[CONTENT WARNING: Misogynistic violence, rape apologia]
His complaint was a familiar one:
I think every girl is a type of slut, they are fussy with men nowadays, they do not give boys like us a chance.
You can find nearly identical laments in the profiles of self-described “nice guys” on OkCupid, on Men’s Rights blogs, and on forums for self-described “Incels” comisserating about their “involuntary celibacy” and what they see as the shallowness of young women.
But these words actually come from a video filmed by Ben Moynihan, a British teenager who was convicted of attempted murder earlier this week after stabbing three women in an attempt to take a sort of revenge upon the “weaker” gender he felt had made his life miserable by denying him sex. Another young man trying to punish women with violence for the “crime” of not dating him.
“I am still a virgin,” he wrote in one note. “Everyone is losing it before me, that’s why you are my chosen target.” In another note, he declared that “all women needs to die and hopefully next time I can gauge [sic] their eyes out.”
Moynihan’s twisted logic is of course eerily similar to that of Elliot Rodger, who went on a shooting spree in Isla Vista last spring in an attempt to “punish” women for their lack of interest in dating him, which he declared to be “a crime that can never be forgiven.”
Thankfully, Moynihan, unlike Rodger, was captured by police before he actually succeeded in killing anyone.
Not so thankfully, both of these men have their fans, including some amongst the usual suspects I write about on this blog. On the incel hangout slutHATE – the successor to PUAhate, on which Elliot Rodger was an occasional commenter – both Rodger and Moynihan have become heroes of a sort to some of the more bitter commenters. Or at least the source of much amusement.
In response to news about Moynihan’s trial, one slutHATEr posted a thread asking “Okay, which one of you did this?” “A new supreme gentleman rises,” wrote another in a different thread devoted to the would-be killer.
A third commenter, going by the name Homesick Alien, asked the question “Are Females days numbered?” listing an assortment of incels who’d killed “females” in an act of twisted “revenge” for their lackluster or nonexistent dating lives. In the comments, Homesick Alien chillingly wrote that
I’m sure someone somehow is rightfully very rageful currently planning the next shooting spree . We can only hope it’ll be more elaborate. Female entitlement is off the charts now, they are out of control,. It’s about time they are put in their fucking place.
Another posted a link to Rodger’s 150-page manifesto, suggesting that “it has the potential to motivate incels to damage the females.”
In a thread from several months ago, a slutHATEr calling himselt NewGenious119 went after fellow incels for not supporting shooting sprees enthusiastically enough.
Seriously, is there something mentally wrong with you? Thinking that a school full of sluts and frat stars getting slain by an incel is a bad thing is characteristic of a normalfag mindset. Our ONLY hope for ever getting to fuck multiple hot sluts is if there are enough incels in the western world who snap and cause bloodshed. It’s the only way that sluts and alphas will realize and accept that there are serious consequences for allowing so many males to live their lives in misery.
Emphasis mine.
As it turned out, there was no need for him to worry that other incels didn’t support spree killngs aimed at “sluts,” as assorted commenters soon let him know.
The rogue MRA and American-Women-Boycotter who calls himself John Rambo seconded his sentiment, writing
I wouldn’t do one myself. But I wouldn’t prevent one from happening if I knew it would as long as I wouldn’t die or a girl that willing to fuck me would. …
Honestly, I truly have very little sympathy for the victims.
A commenter calling himself Worthless Trash only had one complaint: that the death tolls weren’t higher.
I just wish these guys would make better plans and kill their targets and more of them, but sadly most of them have a weakened will-power after all the years of rejections and maybe bullying.
Also i don’t care if it will solve the problem or not, i just feel better hearing this, it’s like divine justice, they feel so superior but in the end they die like worms, just like they treat other guys, like worms, so in the end we are all equal.
Still others offered their assent:
I personally rejoice whenever I hear news of a school shooting.
The higher the death count, the better
i like their kill count high, because it’s always satisfying seeing someone arrogant going from rich to poor, beautiful too ugly from popular to dead
While a few commenters spoke out against the idea of mass murder as a reasonable response to a lack of dates, they were in the distinct minority.
And then there was this guy:
i support ERism [Elliot Rodgerism], but I would never do it myself, my brother is a doctor and his career would be ruined if our family name ever got tarnished
It would be a little easier to dismiss all this as merely internet dumbassery, were it not for the fact that Rodger went out and killed 6 people after posting similar comments on the message board that later became slutHATE.
While commenters like these are a distinct minority even in the sordid world of the manosphere, the sad and scary fact is that there are a frightening number of young and not-so-young men who have embraced one of the central assumptions of the murder-spree-supporting incels of slutHATE – the notion that women who put “nice guys” in the “friend zone” are committing some kind of crime against them, and deserve to be punished for it, individually or collectively.
You can see variations on this in assorted memes attacking women – much as Moynihan and Rodgers did – for supposedly preferring “bad boys” and assholes over the “nice guys” of the world.
Other “friend zone” memes are a bit darker.
And darker still:
And somehow even darker than that:
And we’re just begun to scratch the surface here.
In a followup post, I will look at the ways in which the rampant “slutbashing” of Men’s Rights Activists and other manosphere denizens helps to feed the toxic culture of aggrieved sexual entitlement that has contributed to violence against women.
Is he gone? If not then I vote for the hammer too. And I vote for a new box for the bingo cards “will someone think of the poor Misoygnists!?” “Sex is a ‘need” Or something like that.
Here’s some more brain bleach. Good night everybody
http://theyoutubebuzz.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/cat4.jpg
True, we don’t choose our family, and yes, there are always many factors outside of our control that influence our decisions. However, as adults it’s our choice to spend time with toxic family, our choice to never try to leave toxic relationships or workplaces, our choice to indefinitely stay in an area we hate. Maybe there’s no easy/good options available; unfortunately life is not easy or fair, and its still our choice on how we play the cards that we get.
Look, if I seem judgey, maybe it would help if I mentioned that I’m describing myself. I have several dx mental illnesses, and I suspect a personality disorder as well. I spent my 20s in a literal constant rage as I was in a toxic, financially abusive relationship. I blamed the guy as I had no money of my own. I blamed my parents for pressuring me to stay and not supporting any decision to leave. I blamed society for pressuring me to stay in a relationship “for the children” because “it wasn’t like I was being beaten”. I blamed the world for my problems. I found myself unable to maintain any healthy relationship as I hated the world, and everyone in it. But of course the problem wasn’t me, as I was the victim.
Gradually, through counseling, I realized the common denominator of all my problems was me. Everyone has bad luck, but there’s a reason for maintaining a pattern in life. POM, Your original statement was right. If someone is surrounded by toxic, entitled people, they should ask themselves why this is a pattern in their lives. Are they easy marks? Are they toxic themselves? Are they avoiding making a difficult decision about how to deal with bad luck?
I can assure everyone that the problem is NOT that close to half the population is emotionally deficient assholes. I can assure everyone that most men are kind, mature human beings. I mean, how straw feminist can we get?
On that note…
TomSaw; feminists don’t call men “sexually entitled” when men feel angry or disappointed when they don’t get the girl they want. Everyone feels angry and disappointed about things not going their own way. It’s human. What feminists call “sexual entitlement” is when men feel justified in throwing temper tantrums, up to and including actual violence, because they didn’t get the girl they wanted. The feelings are normal, the “right” to bad behavior when denied is entitlement.
If anyone wants to understand part of the psychology of these men, take a good look at the passage I wrote about myself. Its hard to face up to your flaws and easy to blame everyone else. Being a victim absolves one of all responsibility, gives one the moral high ground, and can be used to justify bad behavior. There’s power in being powerless, and that’s why these men are drawn to conspiracies of “women controlling the sexual marketplace” and other such bs, as then they son’t have to look at themselves. Feeling powerless and being powerless are two separate things.
Well, I’ve already teal deered more than enough to address the rest. 😉
TL;DR
Its on our shoulders how we play our hand in life. And I’m a loser. 😉
I think a great mod challenge for this one would be a 1000 word essay on why physical assault and murder are more important to address than a wounded ego.
Who remembers Governments Get Puppies?
*emerges from rock*
That troll still rambling on and on? I just assumed there would be a flounce or something.
I propose an Incel Bingo card. We’ll need 24 entries, plus a free space. I’ll start with what I’ve seen so far on this thread:
1. Evil sluts having sex!
2. Evil sluts NOT having sex!
3. Ragewank meme justifying murder
4. Teal Deer listicle post
5. Friend Zone waa waa waaa!
6. Rape Zone raaaaar!
7. Necrophilic rage toon
8. Government mandated prostitution NOW!
9. It’s not fair! (whine pout stomp)
10. My male anger is legitimate!
11. What do you feminists want?
12. Appeal for pity sex
13. FREE (optional: trilby hat)
14. Sex is a right!
15. Forced sex is a right!
16. MY NEEEEEEEDZ!
17. Bonersadz
18. Stabby ragewank bonersadz
19. Everyone is getting laid but MEEEEEE!
20. I am NOT entitled, you uppity bitches!
21. Rage is a right!
22. Sluts be picky!
23. Regular girls are icky!
24. Why won’t someone lick my dicky?
25. Me me me me MEEEE!
Please feel free to list your own.
Hey everybody. I’m that evil guy who wrote the blog post talking about male sexual entitlement and health care/education. And, it is obvious that nobody came close to understanding the point I was trying to make. First, here is the post in question:
Okay, it’s a post about two young fellows who recently murdered or tried to murder random women because they were mad about not getting laid. And this is your response to those incidents:
Now, let me clear a few things up: I do not think men have a “right” to sex. I do think the buzzword “male sexual entitlement” is used by feminists to vilify any guy who dare criticize the sexual choices that women in general make.
Sexual choices like stabbing random women because you’re mad about not getting laid.
Women have a right to make the choices they want as to who they have sex with. On the same note, men have the right to verbally vent and express anger about said choices.
Not when the way you “express anger” is stabbing random women because you’re mad about not getting laid.
Just like unemployed people can express anger about the people who got job offers over them.
You remember you’re writing all this in response to a stabbing spree, right? Try stabbing a bunch of businessmen on their way to work, and see how far you get with the “but I want a job too!” defense.
(Incidentally, in this analogy it’s men who get laid who are causing the anger, not women. Instead of lecturing women about what they should be doing with their ladyparts and why they shouldn’t be feminists, you should be taking a vow of celibacy, lest you enrage some poor dateless guy, and encouraging other men to do the same.)
I also think that the anger these men feel is worsened by feminists calling them “entitled”, when really they are just lonely and confused.
People who are just lonely and confused do not stab people.
Sometimes, as you feminists should know, loneliness and confusion can lead to anger.
Point me to an incident where a lonely and confused feminist expressed these feelings with a stabbing spree. Or really, when anyone did this who wasn’t a hideous shitbag.
Feminists don’t have a responsibility to offer solutions for these men, but they do have a responsibility to not demonize any alternative for these men.
When the alternative a man comes up with is “stab random women because I’m mad about not getting laid,” no, I don’t have a responsibility to not demonize it. It’s odd that you would think that.
By the way, the feminist alternative for these men seems to be self loathing: “women don’t like you so deal with it and become a feminist so you can realize how wrong you were for daring question the way women view you”.
Of course women don’t like you. You think it’s okay to stab random women because you’re mad about not getting laid.
It’s not even the cheerleading for spree killers that creeps me out. It’s how unreflective you are about it. You automatically side with the spree killers because they have penises and a problem you identify with (viz, bitches) and just don’t get why people are making a fuss about the stabbings and the shootings and threats of stabbings and shootings. It’s not like people are getting hurt, right?
Contrary to what feminists say, the best way to prevent another Elliot Rodger style attack is to let these men have space to talk about their experience with women.
Elliot Rodger was active on online misogynist communities. The internet is full of safe spaces where self-absorbed men can tell each other how awful women are for not sucking their dicks on command, and it doesn’t seem to have led to a decline in these types of incidents. Instead, it seems to have given people like Elliot Rodger and Ben Moynihan the idea that their hatred of women is normal, even laudatory.
And thanks to your hard work across the Internet, future Rodgers and Moynihans know they can do any appalling thing to women and some people will leap to their defense.
One more thing. When I talked about the health care/education thing, I wasn’t saying that sex is the same as health care and education. What I was saying was that both education and health care require people providing services to other people. If nobody was willing to provide said services, we would have to force somebody to be a doctor or teacher in order to “fulfill” a right.
So…sex is a service one person provides to another person, and if a guy isn’t getting as much sex as he’d like someone should be forced to provide “said service” to him.
You know what? Sure. Let’s go with this plan. We’ll make people sexually service budding spree killers so the killers will take their anger out on their sex slaves and leave the rest of society alone. It’s for the greater good.
You go first.
But, the more important point was ignored. I was, and continue to be, highly critical of feminists thinking female sexual entitlement in the form of women being entitled to free birth control is ok while male sexual entitlement is always evil. I agree sexual entitlement is wrong. But, I condemn it when females think they are entitled to birth control to.
First: feeeeeeeeeeemaaaaales
Sorry, had to get that out of my system.
Men should definitely feel entitled to birth control options and safe sex! There’s certainly nothing evil about that! But I do think male sexual entitlement is wrong if it takes the form of stabbing random people because you’re mad about not getting laid. I hope you feel similarly.
Maybe? Just a little?
feeeeeeeeeeemaaaaales
The fact that Tom thinks sex-positive feminism is to blame for his feelings of inadequacy rather than patriarchal bullshit is really telling. The only evidence of sex-positive feminism’s influence I saw in University was peer-run sex-ed “seminars” for lack of a better word where they talked about safe sex and not feeling shame about your sexuality.
The idea that people in college are having all this free wild sex with lots of people is nonsense. That idea doesn’t come feminism, it comes from popular culture and media.
Looks like I missed some posts while I was busy crafting my teal deer. Are some really saying that’s it’s not ok for men to feel angry? Anger’s just an emotion, it’s not logical. 🙂
You know, I was a virgin all throughout in college and was pretty embarassed about it. And yes, it often felt like sex was going on all around me and there was something wrong with me for not having any. Except I was/am a straight female. I was really struck that Tom wrote this out for us, obviously presuming that only dudes could have ever felt that way.
I hate to pile on, but …
And you’re completely, totally, unequivocally convinced that not a single one of the women who were early in their college career at the same time felt anything remotely like this.
That every last one of them never felt inadequate, never wondered what was wrong with them, never felt left out of a sex-all-the-time culture but was always and everywhere socially comfortable and sexually active and contented with their lot.
Oh boy. Have I got a bridge to sell you!
Seems like everyone’s tired of Tom. I’m giving him a timeout, perhaps permanent.
THIS…
And also this.
I managed to make it through four full years of university, and a bachelor’s degree, still a virgin (and not entirely by choice). Was I disappointed? Absolutely. Was it awful? Sometimes. Was it bearable? Yes, as luck would have it. Am I over it? Hell yeah. Because a couple of years later, I finally got laid…and discovered that sex, like fast food hamburgers and Disneyworld, is way oversold in the popular culture. (And that it’s nowhere near as colorful and juicy as it looks on TV.)
I’m gonna go waaaaay out on a limb of logic here and assume that if I could survive such ignominy without dying of the blue ‘nads — and looky here, I am not even alone in that! — then it must be entirely possible for men to do the same.
I’m not gonna do a list of 24, but I’d propose
1) Link to Psychology Today
and
2) Women can get laid whenever they want
I could go for the idea that sex is a psychological need as i know what it’s like to be miserable without it. But i’ve never quite got the idea that because something is a need, even a physical need, that we should be able to take away another human beings autonomy to fill it. I mean, I physically need to have lungs, but if I needed a lung transplant I don’t think that someone else should be forced to give me one of theirs. Bodily autonomy FTW.
Since when does being miserable without something make it a need? That’s the logic of a kid at the grocery checkout.
I was going to read all the comments before replying, I was going to stay on topic for my first post after returning, I really was. But then I misread this —
“I can’t wait to read the replies explaining every thing wrong with what you just posted.”
As — “I can’t wait to read the reptiles explaining…” and guys! I GOT A TORTOISE! (Yes I will post pictures) And let me tell you, I think even my crankybutt knows more about consent than our lovely trolls, and his species…well, housing males with females isn’t recommended because he’ll injure her with his endless humping. But they get that they won’t die without sex, and don’t hump things that are not female tortoises, despite having a keen sense (and biology built for it) that they will die without water. Which officially means rapey tortoises understand sex better than incels!
I’d inform Darwin of this, but he’s a crankybutt because it was bath day, so I’ll leave him to do his thing. (And yes, I might be actually back, we’ll see if life explodes on me again…getting life exploded bits on you is messy!)
I believe that when Tom Troll compared birth control to “sexual depravity” he meant sexual deprivation. He might profit from learning what 50-dollar words mean before using them, but I thought “depravity” was a fairly accurate (if unconsciously so) description of his posts, considering that the topic of the thread is murderous assaults on women.
Considering their attitude toward women, it always seems strange to me that they are so obsessive about having sex with them. If you don’t like women, it is so much simpler, so much less muss and fuss, to take things into your own hands, which will never fail to give enthusiastic consent any time you want. Oh, I see, your “friends” will make fun of you as a wanker. That certainly justifies murderous rage.
Jeez. I just looked over those memes again, and something leapt out at me. That poor homely kid in the karate gi. Who is he, and does he know that his face and figure (and sad-ass glamour shot) are apparently synonymous with “friendzoned loser”?
Argenti! HI!! Tell me about your tortoise!
Yay, tortoise! I love tortoises.
@ Argenti-Pics or it didn’t happen 😛
I’m currently exiled to the couch, because the kittens are in my favorite chair, cuddling each other… and I’ll kick one off, but not both.
Argenti! Hi! Oh, it’s good to see you here again!
I’m sorry life exploded. That sucks. 🙁
Please, pictures of tortoise!
Argenti! It’s been ages! How are you?
Mrex, we are not arguing against men experiencing anger. We’re arguing against men thinking that homicidal rage is an appropriate response to not getting laid. We’re arguing against the notion that men are entitled to sex.
Darwin 🙂